4 more years of bush.....we're fucked...!

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samtzu
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Post by samtzu » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:41 am

Simply Joel wrote:i have always suggested the left needs to join the military and defend the constitution, as well as act like a check and balance to right wing servicemembers.
Agreed... but then again, looking at the Dems vs. Reps that served, it looks like this has already happened. It almost appears that the Republican party is the party of avoiders.

Not that there's anything wrong with that....

Either that, or combat experience tends to make people lean to the Left... of course, that might depend on which side the bullets are coming from...
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by Rian Jackson » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:47 am

Simply Joel wrote:
cowboyangel wrote:there seems to me to be a considerable number of enlisted in Iraq that may be considered left of center...has anyone checked out they voted? It seems the Pentagon tallied their votes.
the pentagon manages all aspects of their lives... and i can assure you, there are moderates watching to ensure all aspects of voting were above reproach.

unless of course, you have solid credible evidence... and if you do, please make it public. your inference of voter fraud is the same old tripe.

as has been said to me... CA, you are much better than that.
did i miss something?
i didn't read this as an inference at all.
either i'm slow this morning or Joel is paranoid.
surlier than thou

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tonytohono
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Post by tonytohono » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:20 am

Didn't anyone tell you guys? On November 1st they turned on the electro magnetic hypno rays, which resonate through bed springs, and into the minds of the weak minded. In essence it had little effect on the conservative individuals (something about its design), but those of the liberal mindset were temporarily disengaged from their usual thought patterns. I am told that 9 out of 10 voted W. Astounding numbers, doncha think?

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Post by Simply Joel » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:23 am

Rian Jackson wrote:
Simply Joel wrote:
cowboyangel wrote:there seems to me to be a considerable number of enlisted in Iraq that may be considered left of center...has anyone checked out they voted? It seems the Pentagon tallied their votes.
the pentagon manages all aspects of their lives... and i can assure you, there are moderates watching to ensure all aspects of voting were above reproach.

unless of course, you have solid credible evidence... and if you do, please make it public. your inference of voter fraud is the same old tripe.

as has been said to me... CA, you are much better than that.
did i miss something?
i didn't read this as an inference at all.
either i'm slow this morning or Joel is paranoid.

arrrggggghhhhhh, must overcome desire to comment.... aarrrrrgghhhhhh

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geekster
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Post by geekster » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:31 am

Simply Joel wrote:i have always suggested the left needs to join the military and defend the constitution, as well as act like a check and balance to right wing servicemembers.
I just wish more people understood that the "right to bear arms" was ment as a final check on government excess. It was designed so that the government would fear an armed population. In my opinion, the people should be able to have any kind of weapon the Army has. But if you get caught using one in criminal activity, I advocate VERY harsh sentances. Such as ... someone dies during a crime committed with a firearm and the minimum sentance would be life in prison without parole. One strike.
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Post by thinkcooper » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:53 am

geekster wrote:In my opinion, the people should be able to have any kind of weapon the Army has. But if you get caught using one in criminal activity, I advocate VERY harsh sentances.
YES! If I were a tearful guy, you'd have me welling up with that one.

I just want to be sure that ownership doesn't constitute the criminal activity.

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Post by samtzu » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:59 am

thinkcooper wrote:
geekster wrote:In my opinion, the people should be able to have any kind of weapon the Army has. But if you get caught using one in criminal activity, I advocate VERY harsh sentances.
YES! If I were a tearful guy, you'd have me welling up with that one.

I just want to be sure that ownership doesn't constitute the criminal activity.
Put me in this lot... I agree.
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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AAAAAAH!!!!

Post by DavineDesign » Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:24 pm

WhATs NExT....
I ran my mouth off a bit to much ... what did I say, well you just laughed it off and it was all okay...

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Post by diane o'thirst » Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:26 am

For starters...

I understand there's a conference in Berkeley this weekend with Dennis Kucinich, to develop a Cabinet-level Department of Peace. If I was still in the Bay Area, I'd be so there. Website: http://www.dopcampaign.org

Next week I'll be attending NARAL's emergency grassroots meeting in Salem (Oregon).

I'm staying hooked into MoveOn.

On a personal scale, I'm driving a lot more defensively and keeping a watch out for road ragers. The mood in town since Election Day has been getting gradually tenser. I'm seeing a lot of antagonism, snubbery and generally uncool, uncivilized and decidedly childish behaviour between Kerryites and Bushites. The former are bitter, the latter are rubbing the former's noses in it. I'm fully expecting to see fistfights over it. Some voices of reason were out today on the street corner with signs saying "Let It Go" and "Peace begins at home."
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Post by Simply Joel » Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:48 am

diane, my fellow e-playans, i haven't seen a whole lot of gracious (John Kerry being the exception) behavior since the election was over... yeah, it is over, the count is in... Geo. Bush, twice elected... either here on the e-playa elsewhere.

would the Kerry-ites have been gracious if they had won?

as evidenced by the additional anti-bush threads by Anti-Bush/Kerry-ites and assorted malcontents i would estimate the answer to be a resounding "NO!"

yet here we are...

talking about one thing, and doing another.
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

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samtzu
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Post by samtzu » Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:33 am

Give us a break, Joel.... It's only been a few days since the thing that a lot of us had been hoping for, working for, and voting for, was slaughtered. Is this what you say to a family that is dealing with the grief associated with the death of a loved one, "Aw, come on! What's the matter with you? He's gone, get over it, and get your asses back to work!"? This is the same type of grief with all the same grieving stages. Don't you recognize that? And as for Kerry being gracious; yes, he was, in that one speech. And now he has gone home, where he is working on healing his wounds, while the rest of us are still trying to figure out what the hell happened in the heartland.

By the way... Bush won.... that's as gracious as I can get right now, and I've almost ground my jaw down to powder saying even that. Grrrrrr.
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Force
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Post by Force » Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:27 pm

Joel, the reason so many people are having trouble letting this go is that they are probably dealing with the same issues that I am which likely piss them off every fucking time they think about it, which is that it is only possible to win a presidential election by pandering to the fat part of the bell shaped curve.

It irritates the fuck out of us when people we love tell us they voted for Bush because he says he believes the same things as they do.

They completely disregarded his actions and all the rampant corruption that's as plain as fucking day for anyone with the guts to look at it and call it what it is.

It's like if we were driving a bus full of retards who crowd around you and grab the wheel and insist on driving the bus right into the mud because the most popular retard says it's a good idea.

That's gonna annoy anybody. And it doesn't look like it's gonna change anytime soon, given that all of human history bears a strong resemblance to what we're seeing right now.

Which leaves us with the unpleasant realization that to achieve good, we have to be machiavellian and pander to the morons to get the power and then use it for good. Which is a terrible recipe for attracting the altruistic honest folk who'd like to do good into positions of power.

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Post by diane o'thirst » Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:56 pm

Can't speak for anyone except myself, and as for me...if Kerry had won, I'd have heaved a big sigh and said, "Good!" And the next day, I'd have given him a pointed look and said, "Alright, mister. You wanted it, you got it. Make me smile."

Still, doesn't excuse the folderol going on around here, and I'm sure in other cities. Fistfights over a bumper sticker is not how mature, well-adjusted, civilized people behave.

Today, I had my market stall next to a perennial jokester who predicted Bush would win and he went full-bore at me, first thing. "Toldja Bush would win. Told ya! Told ya!" and in spite of my glares and repeated, "I don't want to hear it!"s, shouted me down with a joke about the election. Can we say comedic rape? It was everything I could do not to deck him. It felt about the same as if someone had cracked a joke or slipped a snidery at a close friend's funeral, about the manner of their death. Later, his adult son chewed him a new orifice and made him apologize to me. I accepted it grudgingly and said, "Just — the timing is bad. Give us a few months, maybe the hackles will be down a little by then and we can laugh again." Though somehow I doubt it.
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Post by TheMuse » Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:32 pm

Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free trip around the sun every year.

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Post by Magikal » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:01 pm

thinkcooper wrote:I reccomend buying assault rifles. And knowing how to use them. Scare the shit out of the "moral" right.
I like the way you think. 'Course, I'm one of those eeeeeeevvviiillll right wingers who voted for Bush & own an assault rifle... or at least the state of Kommiefornia thinks so (thanks, Ahnold, you RINO SOB!). If you can own one, that means I can, too (a left winger advocating gun ownership! Who'd a thunk?). History records NO cases of government perpetrating genocides on a well-armed populous.

But yeah, a little civility would sure be nice. My guy won, but (other than w/ my other right-wing radical wacko friends) I didn't jump around rubbing anyones' face in it. I'd like to think I have a little more class than that.

And honestly, for all those who think things would have been so radically different if Kerry had won, go back and take an unemotional look at the facts. It would have made a small difference, if any at all. I'm glad George won, but I wouldn't have pulled my hair out and whined about leaving the country if Kerry had won. Come on, guys, take a deep breath; it's still the best country on earth to live in. Try having a week-long international gathering of 30,000+ people in any other country on earth, and you would soon be pining for the freedoms we take for granted here.
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Post by madmatt » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:38 pm

Image

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Post by mycillion » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:54 pm

Let's see.... I don't think Kerry would govern on God's behalf. Push for discrimination against a group of people written directly into the constitution. Push to reverse abortion rights. Wage war. Embrace the patriot act. And If Bush knew what the hell was going on in black rock city, I'm sure the morale majority would pull the permit so quick it would make your bible spin.

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Post by Captain Goddammit » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:51 pm

You know what? KERRY SUCKS JUST AS MUCH!
At least for me, this election was about republican vs. democrat, the particular candidates we had to choose from both sucked.
You can pull up dirt on either one.
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Force
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Post by Force » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:28 am

Yeah, they both sucked.

I happen to think Kerry sucked slightly less, but that wasn't the reason I held my nose and voted for him.

The reason I did that was because the real problem now is that the retard called his 1-2% victory "an endorsement of his agenda by the American people". Yikes.

In effect, the retard thinks he was just patted on the head and given a thumbs up and told he's doing a great job, keep it up.

So we can now expect more of the same, and possibly even worse since he's lame duck now, and doesn't have to worry about reelection.

What were the reasons people voted for this guy again? Because he (and only he?!?) can keep us safe from the boogeyman? Did those voting for him really think that without this ding at the helm, the whole ship's just gonna shake apart? That people would just lose the will to live and lie down in the mud until they lose consciousness without shrub's direction?

Honestly, it doesn't sound like I'm serious, but I am, why did you vote for him?

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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:49 am

mycillion wrote:Let's see.... I don't think Kerry would govern on God's behalf. Push for discrimination against a group of people written directly into the constitution. Push to reverse abortion rights. Wage war. Embrace the patriot act. And If Bush knew what the hell was going on in black rock city, I'm sure the morale majority would pull the permit so quick it would make your bible spin.
Not to mention a new appetite for fining Comedy central for the language on "South park".
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Post by Silver 2 » Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:29 am

The London Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 89,00.html

Nice to know that somebody agrees with me.
I like playing with fire.

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Post by mycillion » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:04 pm

Silver 2 wrote:The London Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 89,00.html

Nice to know that somebody agrees with me.
Interesting article... I never really stepped back and looked at it that way. BUT.... the next 4 years could drive us so deep into the ground it would be hell for either party to remedy. Who knows... maybe nader will have his day then....!

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Post by Simply Joel » Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:02 pm

The Republicans didn't have to do anything underhanded... the democrats did it to themselves... talk about shooting yourself in the foot!.

:lol:

all the in-fighting between democrats is truly amusing and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy


Kerry to Give Dems Leftover Campaign Cash
By RON FOURNIER, AP Political Writer

WASHINGTON - Under friendly fire, Sen. John Kerry likely will donate a substantial portion of his excess presidential campaign cash to help elect Democratic candidates in 2005 and 2006, advisers said Thursday.

Party leaders, including some of Kerry's top campaign aides, said this week they were surprised and angry to learn that he had more than $15 million in accounts from the Democratic primaries. They demanded to know why the money wasn't spent to help Kerry defeat President Bush or to aid congressional candidates.

There were no easy answers to those questions, officials close to Kerry acknowledged Thursday, but they sought to assure Democrats in a series of telephone calls that the four-term Massachusetts senator was sharing his political wealth.

They argued that he donated $40.5 million to Democratic causes in 2004, including $3 million each to the party's House and Senate campaign committees. More than $32 million went to the Democratic National Committee, including $9 million targeted to state parties.

DNC spokesman Jano Cabrera said that was the largest contribution the DNC has ever received, and the first from a presidential primary campaign.

"With this donation, the campaign more than fulfilled its commitment to our general election plan," he said.

But the DNC statement did little to mask the acrimony over Kerry's money. Several members of his own campaign staff said the cash should have been spent before the Democratic convention in late July to build political organizations in Ohio and Florida — or to court Hispanic and black voters in key states.

One member of Kerry's inner circle of campaign aides said Thursday that the failure to spend the money cost the senator victory in a close election.

Another senior campaign aide said the fact that Kerry had $45 million in the primary account in mid-October raises questions about why he didn't opt out of the campaign finance system for the general election — as he did for the primaries — to avoid spending caps.

While some officials pointed fingers at campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill, others said Kerry himself knew there was a big surplus in his primary campaign account. They said he wanted to save it in the event of a recount, legal challenges or other unforeseen bills. In the end, they said, Kerry's nest egg will be less than $10 million.

Two advisers who have spoken to Kerry about the money said he likely will donate a substantial amount to Democratic committees and candidates for the 2005 contests and 2006 congressional midterm elections.

"They're doing this now because they're being forced to, not because they want to," said Democratic consultant Donna Brazile, the most vocal critic of Kerry's spending. "They still don't have a defense for why they hung on to the money."

According to the two officials familiar with Kerry's account:

_ He has $16 million left from the primaries.

_ Some $4 million to $5 million of that will be transferred to a legal and compliance fund to help pay for the costs of fighting or resolving 16 Federal Election Commission complaints pending against Kerry. That legal fund already has $8 million.

_ Once the transfer is made and all primary season bills are paid, Kerry will have just shy of $10 million in his primary campaign account.

The rest of the money could be used to mount a bid for the presidency in 2008, but the advisers said that had nothing to do with saving the money
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

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