Politics and religion ........

All things outside of Burning Man.
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samtzu
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Post by samtzu » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:04 am

Simply Joel wrote:
you are welcome to leave and live in any country of your choice...
WHUP!! WAIT A MINUTE!!! When I came back from Vietnam, and I started protesting the war there, I was screamed at, not only with bullhorns, but bumper stickers and editorials, "AMERICA! LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT" by fat assed (and to be honest, not so fat assed) Conservatives who thought that standing by the Administration even though they were making a serious mistake, was the only acceptible form of patriotism. It is not. In this raucaus democracy we are encouraged (or, at least, should be) to voice our opinion and bring about change. Please do not make the mistake of thinking that people who are upset with the current administration are Un-American. For one thing, you're smarter than that. For another, you're waaaaaay smarter than that.

I am not a Jefferson, a Franklin, an Adams, or even a Rutherford B. Hayes (although I could be a passible Millard Fillmore) but I know that the only thing that keeps this country alive as a democratic nation is the ability of all of it's citizens to disagree with the policies of government and to be able to voice those views. That is what is going on here. It is what is keeping us all alive. It is HOPE. Hope that our country can remember what it was founded on, and hope that we can somehow, finally begin to live those ideals. We're all patriots here.

By the way, here's a quote for you:
Liberty has never come from the government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of government. The history of liberty is the history of resistance. The history of Liberty is a history of the limitation of governmental power, not the increase of it.
Woodrow Wilson, 1912
....Hey, even a Woodrow knows that!...
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by Simply Joel » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:35 pm

samtzu wrote:
Simply Joel wrote:
you are welcome to leave and live in any country of your choice...
We're all patriots here.
Liberty has never come from the government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of government. The history of liberty is the history of resistance. The history of Liberty is a history of the limitation of governmental power, not the increase of it.
Woodrow Wilson, 1912
sorry, Sam, i don't agree on your definition of patriot. We are all citizens (unless of course you are visiting or live in a different country).. whether someone is a patriot is a matter of one's perspective.
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Post by samtzu » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:15 pm

Simply Joel wrote:
samtzu wrote:
Simply Joel wrote:you are welcome to leave and live in any country of your choice...
We're all patriots here.
Liberty has never come from the government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of government. The history of liberty is the history of resistance. The history of Liberty is a history of the limitation of governmental power, not the increase of it.
Woodrow Wilson, 1912
sorry, Sam, i don't agree on your definition of patriot. We are all citizens (unless of course you are visiting or live in a different country).. whether someone is a patriot is a matter of one's perspective.
I view Jimi Hendrix's version of The Star Spangled Banner at Woodstock to be an act of patriotism. Maybe it wasn't viewed that way at the time (or even now) but I see it as one man saying "This is my country, too, and I don't like what's going on." If Woodrow Wilson was right (and he was echoing much of the rhetoric that the Founding Father's used to establish this nation) then our liberty is in our own hands, and it is essential to bring the government to the position where they cannot take it away from us. This begins with dissent, which is what we are doing here. I refuse to narrow the definition of Patriotism down to a box that only admits those who are agreeable with the government, and, actually, to insist on that narrow definition is to be Un American.

Jefferson, Franklin, and Adams would be pariahs today for their views (as they were written into the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence) of Liberty and they would be hunted down and jailed under the Patriot Act. Yeah, yeah, and Jesus wouldn't be allowed into a single Christian Church, and would get whacked again, but all that means is that the Powers that Be that run those institutions have lost sight of what those institutions were founded on. It's up to Patriots to remind them.

I dislike the word "Patriot" because of all the fucking baggage it has been laden down with, but I will admit to being one, because I love my country... right or wrong... and I will do everything that I can to help make it 'right'.
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by Simply Joel » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:37 pm

yet i must assert, not all acts of dissension are patriotic and conversely not all acts of accord are patriotic

and i think Hendrix (former paratrooper) doing the Star Spangled Banner is a great piece of music and patriotic expression.

to everyone that reads this... i am all for freedom of expression, yet as said fredom is expressed, it shouldn't interfere with another's experience...

of course then again, which came first, the chicken of the egg?
you are welcome to leave and live in any country of your choice...
and the above flippant remark can't be considered anymore divisive than what has been said about George Bush on this board.. look around, i am sure you will find something to illustrate that assertion.

actually, i believe i operate within the community standards when it comes to good taste... and maybe perhaps some of what i write is a taste of one's own medicine?
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Post by KellY » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:45 pm

This sums up my thoughts on patriotism pretty well:

The mass of men serve the state thus, not as men mainly, but as machines, with their bodies. They are the standing army, and the militia, jailers, constables, posse comitatus, etc. In most cases there is no free exercise whatever of the judgement or of the moral sense; but they put themselves on a level with wood and earth and stones; and wooden men can perhaps be manufactured that will serve the purpose as well. Such command no more respect than men of straw or a lump of dirt. They have the same sort of worth only as horses and dogs. Yet such as these even are commonly esteemed good citizens. Others -- as most legislators, politicians, lawyers, ministers, and office-holders — serve the state chiefly with their heads; and, as the rarely make any moral distinctions, they are as likely to serve the devil, without intending it, as God. A very few — as heroes, patriots, martyrs, reformers in the great sense, and men — serve the state with their consciences also, and so necessarily resist it for the most part; and they are commonly treated as enemies by it.

--Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobedience, 1849
"Of what use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes

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Post by samtzu » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:06 pm

Joel, thank you for your remarks. We may differ on small points, but we do agree on the bigger ones. And you are correct,
yet i must assert, not all acts of dissension are patriotic and conversely not all acts of accord are patriotic
, and when people are acting and speaking responsibly, the distinctions are almost invisible. Thanks...
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by Simply Joel » Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:22 am

'DON'T IMPOSE YOUR VALUES' ARGUMENT IS BIGOTRY IN DISGUISE

I am struggling to understand the "don't impose your values" argument. According to this popular belief, it is wrong, and perhaps dangerous, to vote your moral convictions unless everybody else already shares them. Of course if everybody already shares them, no imposition would be necessary.

Nobody ever explains exactly what constitutes an offense in voting one's values, but the complaints appear to be aimed almost solely at conservative Christians, who are viewed as divisive when they try to "force their religious opinions on us." But as UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh writes, "That's what most lawmaking is -- trying to turn one's opinions on moral or pragmatic subjects into law."

Those who think Christians should keep their moral views to themselves, it seems to me, are logically bound to deplore many praiseworthy causes, including the abolition movement, which was mostly the work of the evangelical churches courageously applying Christian ideas of equality to the entrenched institution of slavery. The slaveowners, by the way, frequently used "don't impose your values" arguments, contending that whether they owned blacks or not was a personal and private decision and therefore nobody else's business. The civil rights movement, though an alliance of Christians, Jews and nonbelievers, was primarily the work of the black churches arguing from explicitly Christian principles.

The "don't impose" people make little effort to be consistent, deploring, for example, Catholics who act on their church's beliefs on abortion and stem cells, but not Catholics who follow the pope's insistence that rich nations share their wealth with poor nations, or his opposition to the death penalty and the invasion of Iraq.

If the "don't impose" people wish to mount a serious argument, they will have to attack "imposers" on both sides of the issues they discuss, not just their opponents. They will also have to explain why arguments that come from religious beliefs are less worthy than similar arguments that come from secular principles or simply from hunches or personal feelings. Nat Hentoff, a passionate opponent of abortion, isn't accused of imposing his opinions because he is an atheist. The same arguments and activity by a Christian activist would likely be seen as a violation of some sort.

Consistency would also require the "don't impose" supporters to speak up about coercive schemes intended to force believers to violate their own principles: anti-abortion doctors and nurses who are required in some jurisdictions to study abortion techniques; Catholic agencies forced to carry contraceptive coverage in health plans; evangelical college groups who believe homosexuality is a sin defunded or disbanded for not allowing gays to become officers in their groups; the pressure from the ACLU and others to force the Boy Scouts to admit gays, despite a Supreme Court ruling that the Scouts are entitled to go their own way.

Then there is the current case of Rocco Buttiglione, an Italian Christian Democrat who was named to be justice and home affairs commissioner of the European Union, then rejected for having an opinion that secular liberals find repugnant: He believes homosexuality is a sin. The Times of London attacked the hounding of Buttiglione "for holding personal beliefs that are at odds with the prevailing social orthodoxy ... despite a categorical statement that he would not let those beliefs intrude upon policy decisions." The Times said this is a clear attempt by Buttiglione's opponents to impose their views. No word of protest yet from "don't impose" proponents.

Sometimes the "don't impose" argument pops up in an odd form, as when John Kerry tried to define the stem-cell argument as science vs. ideology. But the stem-cell debate in fact featured ideology vs. ideology: the belief that the chance to eliminate many diseases outweighs the killing of infinitesimal embryos vs. the belief that killing embryos for research is a moral violation and a dangerous precedent. Both arguments are serious moral ones.

Those who resent religiously based arguments often present themselves as rational and scientific, whereas people of faith are dogmatic and emotional. This won't do. As professor Volokh argues, "All of our opinions are ultimately based on unproven and unprovable moral premises." No arguments are privileged because they come from secular people, and none are somehow out of bounds because they come from people of faith. Religious arguments have no special authority in the public arena, but the attempt to label those arguments as illegitimate because of their origin is simply a fashionable form of prejudice. Dropping the "don't impose" argument would be a step toward improving the political climate.

COPYRIGHT 2004 JOHN LEO
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and now, a few words of wisdom...

Post by Simply Joel » Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:43 am

and now, a few words of wisdom...


November 24, 2004
Apocalypse (Almost) Now
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

If America's secular liberals think they have it rough now, just wait till the Second Coming.

The "Left Behind" series, the best-selling novels for adults in the U.S., enthusiastically depict Jesus returning to slaughter everyone who is not a born-again Christian. The world's Hindus, Muslims, Jews and agnostics, along with many Catholics and Unitarians, are heaved into everlasting fire: "Jesus merely raised one hand a few inches and . . . they tumbled in, howling and screeching."

Gosh, what an uplifting scene!

If Saudi Arabians wrote an Islamic version of this series, we would furiously demand that sensible Muslims repudiate such hatemongering. We should hold ourselves to the same standard.

Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins, the co-authors of the series, have both e-mailed me (after I wrote about the "Left Behind" series in July) to protest that their books do not "celebrate" the slaughter of non-Christians but simply present the painful reality of Scripture.

"We can't read it some other way just because it sounds exclusivistic and not currently politically correct," Mr. Jenkins said in an e-mail. "That's our crucible, an offensive and divisive message in an age of plurality and tolerance."

Silly me. I'd forgotten the passage in the Bible about how Jesus intends to roast everyone from the good Samaritan to Gandhi in everlasting fire, simply because they weren't born-again Christians.

I accept that Mr. Jenkins and Mr. LaHaye are sincere. (They base their conclusions on John 3.) But I've sat down in Pakistani and Iraqi mosques with Muslim fundamentalists, and they offered the same defense: they're just applying God's word.

Now, I've often written that blue staters should be less snooty toward fundamentalist Christians, and I realize that this column will seem pretty snooty. But if I praise the good work of evangelicals - like their superb relief efforts in Darfur - I'll also condemn what I perceive as bigotry. A dialogue about faith must move past taboos and discuss differences bluntly. That's what blue staters and red staters need to do about religion and the "Left Behind" books.

For starters, it's worth pointing out that those predicting an apocalypse have a long and lousy record. In America, tens of thousands of followers of William Miller waited eagerly for Jesus to reappear on Oct. 22, 1844. Some of these Millerites had given away all their belongings, and the no-show was called the Great Disappointment.

In more recent times, the best-selling nonfiction book of the 1970's was Hal Lindsey's "The Late Great Planet Earth," selling 18 million copies worldwide with its predictions of a Second Coming. Then, one of the hottest best sellers in 1988 was a booklet called "88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 1988." Oops.

Being wrong has rarely been so lucrative.

Now we have the hugely profitable "Left Behind" financial empire, whose Web site flatly says that the authors "think this generation will witness the end of history." The site sells every "Left Behind" spinoff imaginable, including screen savers, regular prophecies sent to your mobile phone, children's versions of the books, audiobooks, graphic novels, videos, calendars, music and a $6.50-a-month prophesy club. This isn't religion, this is brand management.

If Mr. LaHaye and Mr. Jenkins honestly believe that the end of the world may be imminent, why not waive royalties? Why don't they use the millions of dollars in profits to help the poor - and increase their own chances of getting into heaven?

Mr. Jenkins told me that he gives 20 to 40 percent of his income to charity, and that's commendable. But there are millions more where that came from. Mr. LaHaye and Mr. Jenkins might spend less time puzzling over obscure passages in the Book of Revelation and more time with the straightforward language of Matthew 6:19, "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth." Or Matthew 19:21, where Jesus advises a rich man: "Sell your possessions and give the money to the poor. . . . It will be hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

So I challenge the authors to a bet: if the events of the Apocalypse arrive in the next 10 years, then I'll donate $500 to the battle against the Antichrist; if it doesn't, you donate $500 to a charity of my choosing that fights poverty - and bigotry.

Gentlemen, do we have a deal?

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
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Post by calicowboy925 » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:08 pm

Joel, you continue to amaze with your references and ability to find related articles and quotes. Not because i may or may not agree with your position, just your quick assembly of great logical arguements. And Sam, those were some great points you made there also.
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Post by DVD Burner » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:10 pm

Logic is in the eye of the beholder.
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Post by samtzu » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:16 pm

calicowboy925 wrote:Joel, you continue to amaze with your references and ability to find related articles and quotes. Not because i may or may not agree with your position, just your quick assembly of great logical arguements. And Sam, those were some great points you made there also.
Thank you... and I mean that...
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Post by Simply Joel » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:58 pm

samtzu wrote:
calicowboy925 wrote:Joel, you continue to amaze with your references and ability to find related articles and quotes. Not because i may or may not agree with your position, just your quick assembly of great logical arguements. And Sam, those were some great points you made there also.
Thank you... and I mean that...
i am not sure i assemble great arguments... i do cut & paste other's perspectives to illuminate to possiblity of another point of view.

i learn something each and everytime i look something up... and that is one of the many reasons i do it... an old professional ethic "seeks self-improvement"
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Post by samtzu » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:13 pm

Simply Joel wrote:
samtzu wrote:
calicowboy925 wrote:Joel, you continue to amaze with your references and ability to find related articles and quotes. Not because i may or may not agree with your position, just your quick assembly of great logical arguements. And Sam, those were some great points you made there also.
Thank you... and I mean that...
i am not sure i assemble great arguments... i do cut & paste other's perspectives to illuminate to possiblity of another point of view.

i learn something each and everytime i look something up... and that is one of the many reasons i do it... an old professional ethic "seeks self-improvement"
I cut and paste, but it's usually paper dolls of famous people... my room is full of them... they almost cover all the padding...
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by Rian Jackson » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:37 pm

I can’t even decide if I should post this here or on the 24/7 thread, but the bit about the ‘don’t impose your values’ got me thinking.

In reading the Left Hooks, Right Crosses’ book I came across a Phillip Green article taking a look at liberalism. He was basically defining the job of the liberal as to champion the rights of the minority over the majority. Where in a democracy, the majority wins, leaving the minority the short end of the stick (usually), liberals serve a purpose to make sure that everyone has equal opportunities, even though those methods and views are often unpopular. The one thing that could be said to refute the article that you posted is that in, I believe, each case that the authors put forth, the example of ‘don’t impose your values’ is coming from a liberal point of view of defending the freedoms of a group of people which another group is trying to constrain. The counter examples they imagine seem to be a matter of the second group not wanting extra freedoms imposed on them.

It’s grey area, for sure.

But I’m just sayin.’
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Post by Simply Joel » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:47 pm

DVD Burner wrote:
Simply Joel wrote: and just for argument sake, how about questioning Islamist and the use of the Koran as a religious as well as political tool.
All religion needs to be questioned. I exclude none.

They all should be held accountable for the atrocities they’ve done over the centuries. Mostly out of ignorance but in addition mostly due to a hefty "GREED" of money and power.
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Post by tonytohono » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:57 pm

Simply Joel wrote: i learn something each and everytime i look something up... and that is one of the many reasons i do it... an old professional ethic "seeks self-improvement"
One man's self-improvement... well...

You certainly come up with the support for your beliefs, opinions, etc Joel. I can't fault you for that.

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Post by Silver 2 » Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:49 pm

DVD Burner wrote:
Simply Joel wrote:

and just for argument sake, how about questioning Islamist and the use of the Koran as a religious as well as political tool.


All religion needs to be questioned. I exclude none.

They all should be held accountable for the atrocities they’ve done over the centuries. Mostly out of ignorance but in addition mostly due to a hefty "GREED" of money and power.


if bullshit were gold, you would be a rich man.
Simply Joel,

Huh? The basic statement "mostly due to a hefty "GREED" of money and power. " in reference to religion is something I have taken as a truism since childhood. Grandpa took me and a couple of cousins to revivals, we sat in the back and Grandpa would say things like: "He gonna get healed" and by god he did; about 3 weeks running. And other things like "These folks don't have a pot but watch the take."

Any kind of examination of the major religions show that they became major due to the drive for either money, power or both. Consider also the accomdations that most religions go through to either establish themselves or to insure their security. Examples: Christianity dropped male circumcision, the acceptance of the cult of Mary in Northern Europe; Mormons have made multiple changes to their religion. I will admit that Islam never did much in the way of compromising but they did leave a trail of blood among the pagans that would not switch and and they did a great job of stealing everything along the way. This is not to say that the Christians didn't kill or enslave as many as they could and didn't take anything that they came across, its just that they compromised a bit more and were not as good at killing and stealing. I will say that the teutonic knights did a great number on the pagan Prussian tribes, killing thousands and sending even more thousands into slavery (selling most of the slaves to their Muslim enemies). I could go on and include examples for Buddism, Hinduism and old time Judaism but I think I made my point.

Religion and religious history has interested me for most of my life, I have always failed to get the point.

While I am at it, and in regards to imposition of 'moral' beliefs; who encourages the greater freedom of people, the religion based or the liberal based.
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Post by DVD Burner » Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:56 pm

Simply Joel wrote:
DVD Burner wrote:
Simply Joel wrote: and just for argument sake, how about questioning Islamist and the use of the Koran as a religious as well as political tool.
All religion needs to be questioned. I exclude none.

They all should be held accountable for the atrocities they’ve done over the centuries. Mostly out of ignorance but in addition mostly due to a hefty "GREED" of money and power.
if bullshit were gold, you would be a rich man.
Hey what are you saying? That religion is'nt full of shit? :roll:
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Post by samtzu » Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:03 pm

DVD Burner wrote:
Simply Joel wrote:
DVD Burner wrote: All religion needs to be questioned. I exclude none.

They all should be held accountable for the atrocities they’ve done over the centuries. Mostly out of ignorance but in addition mostly due to a hefty "GREED" of money and power.
if bullshit were gold, you would be a rich man.
Hey what are you saying? That religion is'nt full of shit? :roll:
I will say this:

The general population ( of visible ) proponanats of 'religion' fill this definition. But there are many who do 'love thy neighbor' etc., and you cannot discount them. If you do, you fall into the 'religion' of sceptics who do not truly examine their own beliefs...

Who are the progenitors of all "Holy" war...

think about it....
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Post by DVD Burner » Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:08 pm

Ripley's believe it or not you can be a nice person, love thy neighbor and all that good stuff and know that religion is bullshit that causes more problems than it cause good on this planet and the universe.

You don’t need God/Devil or religion of any type to be a good person or think logically or to be smart. All you need is to live and be in reality in all it's good bad and ugly and make the best of it.
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Post by Simply Joel » Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:51 am

DVD Burner wrote:
Simply Joel wrote:
DVD Burner wrote: All religion needs to be questioned. I exclude none.

They all should be held accountable for the atrocities they’ve done over the centuries. Mostly out of ignorance but in addition mostly due to a hefty "GREED" of money and power.
if bullshit were gold, you would be a rich man.
Hey what are you saying? That religion is'nt full of shit? :roll:
no, i think you flippant remarks about religion are bullshit.
at no time to you develop an argument to defend your positions, you don't even "cite" well.

Read the post by Silver or Sam above, and you will see a well thought out response.

it isn't so much that i disagree with you, DVD, however i do disagree with your methods and sources, just as you "diss" mine (cut & paste, Safire, Friedman, Brooks, www.ask.com, etc...)

i believe you as self-appointed "court-jester of the e-playa" is wearisome.

does that fully explain my comments about your comments?
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fucking no edit function, and lousy proof-reading

Post by Simply Joel » Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:53 am

corrections made
Simply Joel wrote:
DVD Burner wrote:
Simply Joel wrote: if bullshit were gold, you would be a rich man.
Hey what are you saying? That religion is'nt full of shit? :roll:
no, i think your flippant remarks about religion are bullshit.
at no time do you develop an argument to defend your positions, you don't even "cite" well.

Read the post by Silver or Sam above, and you will see a well thought out response.

it isn't so much that i disagree with you, DVD, however i do disagree with your methods and sources, just as you "diss" mine (cut & paste, Safire, Friedman, Brooks, www.ask.com, etc...)

i believe you as self-appointed "court-jester of the e-playa" is wearisome.

does that fully explain my comments about your comments?
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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:06 am

Simply Joel wrote:
no, i think you flippant remarks about religion are bullshit.
at no time to you develop an argument to defend your positions, you don't even "cite" well.
I've cited for years and several times on this board with this.
Now I can understand if that was too complicated for most to understand and that's all that I am gonna say about that because anything else, others might find insulting. :P
Simply Joel wrote: Read the post by Silver or Sam above, and you will see a well thought out response.
Like I dont read everything that is posted on a thread I started. Yep, that sounds really intelligent.
Simply Joel wrote: it isn't so much that i disagree with you, DVD, however i do disagree with your methods and sources, just as you "diss" mine (cut & paste, Safire, Friedman, Brooks, www.ask.com, etc...)

Safire, Friedman, Brooks, www.ask.com? Well what else can be said. :P
Simply Joel wrote: i believe you as self-appointed "court-jester of the e-playa" is wearisome.
Dont flater me that way please. I'm just as common as the next.
Simply Joel wrote: does that fully explain my comments about your comments?
Well it sort of explains your comments.................not, but my comments need no explaination. If one does'nt get it then I'll leave it to someone else. But I tried my best to make it as simple as possible. Simple enough for a 3 year old. I'm around 3 year olds that understand.....so.... :shock:
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Post by Simply Joel » Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:16 am

well, for a 3 year old, you type pretty well.
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!


slap my salmon, baby

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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:21 am

:lol:
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something to ponder over the holidays...

Post by Simply Joel » Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:34 pm

SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING
David Shribman

In the past quarter-century, the American presidency has become more obsessed with public-opinion polling, more preoccupied with fund-raising, and more tailored to the production values of the mass media. All of those things have reshaped and reoriented the modern White House. But the most distinctive feature of the American presidency in this period may well be the increased spirituality of the men who occupied it.
Abraham Lincoln's speeches, to be sure, were marked by strains of spirituality. William McKinley sought God's advice before taking the Philippines. Franklin Delano Roosevelt structured his D-Day address in the form of a prayer. But religion has never been so consistent a part of the American presidency as it has since Jimmy Carter became president 28 years ago.

Carter possessed the style of the preacher, talked more easily of his relationship with God than any president before him, and taught Sunday school while in the White House. Bill Clinton spoke in the idiom, and with the cadence, of the Pentecostal "gospel sing" he used to attend in Red Field, Ark.

And George W. Bush, whose religious awakening in his 40s transformed his life and, it is not too much to say, American history, laces his remarks with allusions to Scripture.

Today the split between the red states and the blue states is accompanied by a division, just as strong and perhaps just as portentous, between religious Americans and secular Americans. The two groups -- what Columbia University historian Simon Schama calls "Godly America" and "Worldly America" -- approach each other with suspicion, distrust and misunderstanding.

But by a 3-to-1 margin, according to a poll by the Pew Research Center, registered voters believe it is important that the president have strong religious beliefs. So when Bush speaks in the tongue of religion, he is speaking to a public that wants reassurance that he is animated at least in part by religion.

But this is nothing new for the president, not a tactic adopted for his re-election battle and for a second-term call-to-arms of the faithful. It was evident from the very beginning of his presidency.

In his first State of the Union address, the president said there was "power, wonder-working power in the goodness, and idealism, and faith of the American people," a clear allusion to the American hymn whose chorus line is "There is power, power, wonder-working power in the precious blood of the Lamb."

But spiritual themes are sprinkled throughout the Bush speaking style. In his first inaugural, he said: "And I can pledge our nation to a goal: When we see that wounded traveler on the road to Jericho, we will not pass to the other side." In his first appearance at a National Prayer Breakfast, he spoke of his "desire to speak and listen to our Maker and to know his plan for our lives," adding: "There are many experiences of faith in this room, but most of us share a belief that we are loved and called to love; that our choices matter, now and forever; that there are purposes deeper than ambition and hopes greater than success."

Much of this rhetoric gives comfort to the listener, even those who do not fully recognize the spiritual references that are often embedded in the president's speeches. But it prompts discomfort in many of the president's critics and skeptics.

The Bush administration and the Bush campaign made no secret that it considers religious conservatives his political base. But those close to Bush say that the spirituality in the president's language comes as much from himself as from his speechwriters. Indeed, some of the spiritual language embedded in the president's remarks were scribbled in by Bush himself.

And, in truth, the Bush era has been marked by more than its share of natural moments of reflection, introspection -- and prayer. Shortly after the terrorist attacks of 2001, the president attended a somber prayer service to mark a national day of mourning, and said:

"There are prayers that help us last through the day, or endure the night. There are prayers of friends and strangers, that give us strength for the journey. And there are prayers that yield our will to a will greater than our own. This world He created is of moral design."

A few days later, in his appearance on Capitol Hill, the president sought to put the struggle against terrorism in perspective, painting it as part of an eternal struggle played out before God and with his direct involvement:

"The course of this conflict is not known, yet its outcome is certain. Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty, have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them."

The president hit that theme a few months later before the National Hispanic Prayer Breakfast, saying: "Since America's founding, prayer has reassured us that the hand of God is guiding the affairs of this nation. We have never asserted a special claim on his favor, yet we've always believed in God's presence in our lives. This has always been true. But it has never been more true since September the 11th."

Mark Gerson, Bush's speechwriter and, like the president, a religious conservative, identifies four occasions when religion infuses the president's rhetoric: moments of mourning that require comfort; events calling for references to the historical influence of faith; speeches on the president's commitment to faith-based solutions for social crises; and remarks that include literary allusions to hymns and Scripture.

"Scrubbing public discussion of religious ideas would remove one of the sources of social justice from American history," says Gerson.

In last year's State of the Union address, the president described freedom as "God's gift to humanity" and added: "We Americans have faith in ourselves but not in ourselves alone. We do not claim to know all the ways of Providence, yet we can trust in them, placing our confidence in the loving God behind all of life and all of history."

Some of the president's critics believe that Bush's use of religious rhetoric is a code he uses to communicate with his base supporters. It's more likely a code for us, Godly and Worldly alike, to help understand his own thoughts -- and to remind us that the spirit of the times is spiritual.

COPYRIGHT 2004 THE PITTSBURGH POST-GAZETTE

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Post by cowboyangel » Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:14 pm

Oh Christ what a bunch of editorial spam shit! ....... if W had any "real" Christian compassion he would have commuted Carla Fate Tucker's life (even Jerry Falwell and the Pope asked him to do it) instead of making fun of her appeal and blowing her away like hundreds of others on Texas' death row (ya, tell me the fuck that Jesus would execute someone ...tell me with a staight face)
Never attending a fallen soldier's funeral from the Iraq mistake, nor personally signing a sympathy note to their families, rank up there with gross callousness of the outrageous kind. Spirituality is as spirituality does, and this president is no more a model of Christian ideals than Atilla the Hun is of Zen quietude. To describe the blue states as "worldly" is idiotic. Perhaps the red state bretheren can learn compassion and tollerance from their spiritual friends in the blue.....I can list plenty here to model after.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by Simply Joel » Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:51 am

Here is my response to CA.
Where is the left?

December 22, 2004
When the Right Is Right
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

One of the most conservative, religious, fascinating - and, in many ways, admirable - politicians in America today is Sam Brownback, the senator from Kansas who is a leader of the Christian right.

Sure, Mr. Brownback is to the right of Attila the Hun, and I disagree with him on just about every major issue. But 'tis the season for brotherly love, so let me point to reasons for hope. Members of the Christian right, exemplified by Mr. Brownback, are the new internationalists, increasingly engaged in humanitarian causes abroad - thus creating opportunities for common ground between left and right on issues we all care about.

So Democrats should clamber down from the window ledges, roll up their sleeves and get to work on some of these issues. Because I'm embarrassed to say that Democrats have been so suspicious of Republicans that they haven't contributed much on those human rights issues where the Christian right has already staked out its ground.

Take sex trafficking. Paul Wellstone, the liberal from Minnesota, led an effort with Mr. Brownback and others to pass landmark legislation in 2000 to battle sex slavery around the world. But since Mr. Wellstone's death in 2002, the leadership on the issue has passed to the Christian right and to the Bush administration.

Or Darfur. Conservative Christians have been jumping up and down about Sudan for years because of its repression of Christians. So when Sudan's government launched its genocide in the Darfur region, Democrats were slow to speak out, perhaps perceiving it as a conservative issue.

Then there's North Korea. Democrats have properly lambasted Mr. Bush for his disastrous approach toward North Korea, which has reacted to his policy by turning into a nuclear arms assembly line. But it has been Mr. Brownback and other conservative Christians who have turned the heat on North Korea's human rights record and laid the groundwork for more radio broadcasts to undermine the regime there.

So, all in all, I find Mr. Brownback perhaps the most intriguing man in Washington - so wrong on so much, and yet such a leader on humanitarian issues. He is also working with liberals like Ted Kennedy to press for immigration reform, prison reform, increased funds for AIDS and malaria, construction of an African-American history museum and even an apology to American Indians.

The other day, Mr. Brownback told me enthusiastically about his trip to northern Uganda and urged me to write about brutalities there. I was disoriented - I thought I was the one who tried to get people to pay attention to remote places.

So why is a conservative Kansas senator traveling to the wilds of Uganda?

"I had a health issue a few years back, and it really made my faith real," he said, referring to a bout with cancer. "It made me think, the things that the Lord would want done, let's do. His heart is with the downtrodden, so let's help them."

Yet a larger shift is also under way. Liberals traditionally were the bleeding hearts, while conservatives regarded foreign aid, in the words of Jesse Helms, as "money down a rat hole." That's changing. "One cannot understand international relations today without comprehending the new faith-based movement," Allen Hertzke writes in "Freeing God's Children," a book about evangelicals leaping into human rights causes.

Sure enough, looking at the most important national issues - Iraq, terrorism, budget deficits - I can see why liberals feel suicidal. Moreover, the Christian right's ventures abroad strike me as deeply misguided in some areas: "pro-life" policies lead to women dying in botched abortions, and squeamishness about condoms leads to teenagers dying of AIDS. The conservatives' cutoff of money for the U.N. Population Fund has meant less contraception, more abortions and more mothers dying in childbirth.

But the biggest obstacle to American engagement on international issues has been a lack of constituency for them, and that may be changing - if both sides can hold their noses and cooperate. Frankly, Democrats aren't going to accomplish much on their own over the next four years, but by working with the likes of Mr. Brownback they might register real progress on sex trafficking, an African-American history museum, malaria and immigration reform. That would be a much better use of the next four years than sulking.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

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Post by Ranger Genius » Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:43 pm

I'd say that dubya follows the teachings of Jesus pretty accurately:

Matt 10:34-35

34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.


35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.




And this lovely passage:

Mark 11:12-14, 20-21

12The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it.

20In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 21Peter remembered and said to Jesus, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!”

That's right, the big J curses and kills a fig tree because it didn't bear fruit out of season. Don't invite him over. If there aren't any strawberries in your fridge he'll set fire to it.
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When Islam Breaks Down

Post by Simply Joel » Sat Dec 25, 2004 2:12 am

When Islam Breaks Down
by Theodore Dalrymple

My first contact with Islam was in Afghanistan. I had been through Iran overland to get there, but it was in the days of the Shah’s White Revolution, which had given rights to women and had secularized society (with the aid of a little detention, without trial, and torture). In my naive, historicist way, I assumed that secularization was an irreversible process, like the breaking of eggs: that once people had seen the glory of life without compulsory obeisance to the men of God, they would never turn back to them as the sole guides to their lives and politics.

Afghanistan was different, quite clearly a pre-modern society. The vast, barren landscapes in the crystalline air were impossibly romantic, and the people (that is to say the men, for women were not much in evidence) had a wild dignity and nobility. Their mien was aristocratic. Even their hospitality was fierce. They carried more weapons in daily life than the average British commando in wartime. You knew that they would defend you to the death, if necessary—or cut your throat like a chicken’s, if necessary. Honor among them was all.

On the whole I was favorably impressed. I thought that they were freer than we. I thought nothing of such matters as the clash of civilizations, and experienced no desire, and felt no duty, to redeem them from their way of life in the name of any of my own civilization’s ideals. Impressed by the aesthetics of Afghanistan and unaware of any fundamental opposition or tension between the modern and the pre-modern, I saw no reason why the West and Afghanistan should not rub along pretty well together, each in its own little world, provided only that each respected the other.

I was with a group of students, and our appearance in the middle of a country then seldom visited was almost a national event. At any rate, we put on extracts of Romeo and Juliet in the desert, in which I had a small part, and the crown prince of Afghanistan (then still a kingdom) attended. He arrived in Afghanistan’s one modern appurtenance: a silver convertible Mercedes sports car—I was much impressed by that. Little did I think then that lines from the play—those of Juliet’s plea to her mother to abrogate an unwanted marriage to Paris, arranged and forced on her by her father, Capulet—would so uncannily capture the predicament of some of my Muslim patients in Britain more than a third of a century after my visit to Afghanistan, and four centuries after they were written:

Is there no pity sitting in the clouds
That sees into the bottom of my grief?
O sweet my mother, cast me not away!
Delay this marriage for a month, a week,
Or if you do not, make the bridal bed
In that dim monument where Tybalt lies.

How often have I been consulted by young Muslim women patients, driven to despair by enforced marriages to close relatives (usually first cousins) back “home” in India and Pakistan, who have made such an unavailing appeal to their mothers, followed by an attempt at suicide!

Capulet’s attitude to his refractory daughter is precisely that of my Muslim patients’ fathers:

Look to’t, think on’t, I do not use to jest.
Thursday is near, lay hand on heart, advise:
And you be mine, I’ll give you to my friend;
And you be not, hang, beg, starve, die in the streets,
For by my soul, I’ll ne’er acknowledge thee,
Nor what is mine shall ever do thee good.

In fact the situation of Muslim girls in my city is even worse than Juliet’s. Every Muslim girl in my city has heard of the killing of such as she back in Pakistan, on refusal to marry her first cousin, betrothed to her by her father, all unknown to her, in the earliest years of her childhood. The girl is killed because she has impugned family honor by breaking her father’s word, and any halfhearted official inquiry into the death by the Pakistani authorities is easily and cheaply bought off. And even if she is not killed, she is expelled from the household—O sweet my mother, cast me not away!—and regarded by her “community” as virtually a prostitute, fair game for any man who wants her.

This pattern of betrothal causes suffering as intense as any I know of. It has terrible consequences. One father prevented his daughter, highly intelligent and ambitious to be a journalist, from attending school, precisely to ensure her lack of Westernization and economic independence. He then took her, aged 16, to Pakistan for the traditional forced marriage (silence, or a lack of open objection, amounts to consent in these circumstances, according to Islamic law) to a first cousin whom she disliked from the first and who forced his attentions on her. Granted a visa to come to Britain, as if the marriage were a bona fide one—the British authorities having turned a cowardly blind eye to the real nature of such marriages in order to avoid the charge of racial discrimination—he was violent toward her.

She had two children in quick succession, both of whom were so severely handicapped that they would be bedridden for the rest of their short lives and would require nursing 24 hours a day. (For fear of giving offense, the press almost never alludes to the extremely high rate of genetic illnesses among the offspring of consanguineous marriages.) Her husband, deciding that the blame for the illnesses was entirely hers, and not wishing to devote himself to looking after such useless creatures, left her, divorcing her after Islamic custom. Her family ostracized her, having concluded that a woman whose husband had left her must have been to blame and was the next thing to a whore. She threw herself off a cliff, but was saved by a ledge.

I’ve heard a hundred variations of her emblematic story. Here, for once, are instances of unadulterated female victimhood, yet the silence of the feminists is deafening. Where two pieties—feminism and multiculturalism—come into conflict, the only way of preserving both is an indecent silence.

Certainly such experiences have moderated the historicism I took to Afghanistan—the naive belief that monotheistic religions have but a single, “natural,” path of evolution, which they all eventually follow. By the time Christianity was Islam’s present age, I might once have thought, it had still undergone no Reformation, the absence of which is sometimes offered as an explanation for Islam’s intolerance and rigidity. Give it time, I would have said, and it will evolve, as Christianity has, to a private confession that acknowledges the legal supremacy of the secular state—at which point Islam will become one creed among many.

That Shakespeare’s words express the despair that oppressed Muslim girls feel in a British city in the twenty-first century with much greater force, short of poisoning themselves, than that with which they can themselves express it, that Shakespeare evokes so vividly their fathers’ sentiments as well (though condemning rather than endorsing them), suggests—does it not?—that such oppressive treatment of women is not historically unique to Islam, and that it is a stage that Muslims will leave behind. Islam will even outgrow its religious intolerance, as Christian Europe did so long ago, after centuries in which the Thirty Years’ War, for example, resulted in the death of a third of Germany’s population, or when Philip II of Spain averred, “I would rather sacrifice the lives of a hundred thousand people than cease my persecution of heretics.”

My historicist optimism has waned. After all, I soon enough learned that the Shah’s revolution from above was reversible—at least in the short term, that is to say the term in which we all live, and certainly long enough to ruin the only lives that contemporary Iranians have. Moreover, even if there were no relevant differences between Christianity and Islam as doctrines and civilizations in their ability to accommodate modernity, a vital difference in the historical situations of the two religions also tempers my historicist optimism. Devout Muslims can see (as Luther, Calvin, and others could not) the long-term consequences of the Reformation and its consequent secularism: a marginalization of the Word of God, except as an increasingly distant cultural echo—as the “melancholy, long, withdrawing roar” of the once full “Sea of faith,” in Matthew Arnold’s precisely diagnostic words.

And there is enough truth in the devout Muslim’s criticism of the less attractive aspects of Western secular culture to lend plausibility to his call for a return to purity as the answer to the Muslim world’s woes. He sees in the West’s freedom nothing but promiscuity and license, which is certainly there; but he does not see in freedom, especially freedom of inquiry, a spiritual virtue as well as an ultimate source of strength. This narrow, beleaguered consciousness no doubt accounts for the strand of reactionary revolt in contemporary Islam. The devout Muslim fears, and not without good reason, that to give an inch is sooner or later to concede the whole territory.

This fear must be all the more acute among the large and growing Muslim population in cities like mine. Except for a small, highly educated middle class, who live de facto as if Islam were a private religious confession like any other in the West, the Muslims congregate in neighborhoods that they have made their own, where the life of the Punjab continues amid the architecture of the Industrial Revolution. The halal butcher’s corner shop rubs shoulders with the terra-cotta municipal library, built by the Victorian city fathers to improve the cultural level of a largely vanished industrial working class.

The Muslim immigrants to these areas were not seeking a new way of life when they arrived; they expected to continue their old lives, but more prosperously. They neither anticipated, nor wanted, the inevitable cultural tensions of translocation, and they certainly never suspected that in the long run they could not maintain their culture and their religion intact. The older generation is only now realizing that even outward conformity to traditional codes of dress and behavior by the young is no longer a guarantee of inner acceptance (a perception that makes their vigilantism all the more pronounced and desperate). Recently I stood at the taxi stand outside my hospital, beside two young women in full black costume, with only a slit for the eyes. One said to the other, “Give us a light for a fag, love; I’m gasping.” Release the social pressure on the girls, and they would abandon their costume in an instant.

Anyone who lives in a city like mine and interests himself in the fate of the world cannot help wondering whether, deeper than this immediate cultural desperation, there is anything intrinsic to Islam—beyond the devout Muslim’s instinctive understanding that secularization, once it starts, is like an unstoppable chain reaction—that renders it unable to adapt itself comfortably to the modern world. Is there an essential element that condemns the Dar al-Islam to permanent backwardness with regard to the Dar al-Harb, a backwardness that is felt as a deep humiliation, and is exemplified, though not proved, by the fact that the whole of the Arab world, minus its oil, matters less to the rest of the world economically than the Nokia telephone company of Finland?

I think the answer is yes, and that the problem begins with Islam’s failure to make a distinction between church and state. Unlike Christianity, which had to spend its first centuries developing institutions clandestinely and so from the outset clearly had to separate church from state, Islam was from its inception both church and state, one and indivisible, with no possible distinction between temporal and religious authority. Muhammad’s power was seamlessly spiritual and secular (although the latter grew ultimately out of the former), and he bequeathed this model to his followers. Since he was, by Islamic definition, the last prophet of God upon earth, his was a political model whose perfection could not be challenged or questioned without the total abandonment of the pretensions of the entire religion.

But his model left Islam with two intractable problems. One was political. Muhammad unfortunately bequeathed no institutional arrangements by which his successors in the role of omnicompetent ruler could be chosen (and, of course, a schism occurred immediately after the Prophet’s death, with some—today’s Sunnites—following his father-in-law, and some—today’s Shi’ites—his son-in-law). Compounding this difficulty, the legitimacy of temporal power could always be challenged by those who, citing Muhammad’s spiritual role, claimed greater religious purity or authority; the fanatic in Islam is always at a moral advantage vis-à-vis the moderate. Moreover, Islam—in which the mosque is a meetinghouse, not an institutional church—has no established, anointed ecclesiastical hierarchy to decide such claims authoritatively. With political power constantly liable to challenge from the pious, or the allegedly pious, tyranny becomes the only guarantor of stability, and assassination the only means of reform. Hence the Saudi time bomb: sooner or later, religious revolt will depose a dynasty founded upon its supposed piety but long since corrupted by the ways of the world.

The second problem is intellectual. In the West, the Renaissance, the Reformation, and the Enlightenment, acting upon the space that had always existed, at least potentially, in Christianity between church and state, liberated individual men to think for themselves, and thus set in motion an unprecedented and still unstoppable material advancement. Islam, with no separate, secular sphere where inquiry could flourish free from the claims of religion, if only for technical purposes, was hopelessly left behind: as, several centuries later, it still is.

The indivisibility of any aspect of life from any other in Islam is a source of strength, but also of fragility and weakness, for individuals as well as for polities. Where all conduct, all custom, has a religious sanction and justification, any change is a threat to the whole system of belief. Certainty that their way of life is the right one thus coexists with fear that the whole edifice—intellectual and political—will come tumbling down if it is tampered with in any way. Intransigence is a defense against doubt and makes living on terms of true equality with others who do not share the creed impossible.

Not coincidentally, the punishment for apostasy in Islam is death: apostates are regarded as far worse than infidels, and punished far more rigorously. In every Islamic society, and indeed among Britain’s Muslim immigrants, there are people who take this idea quite literally, as their rage against Salman Rushdie testified.

The Islamic doctrine of apostasy is hardly favorable to free inquiry or frank discussion, to say the least, and surely it explains why no Muslim, or former Muslim, in an Islamic society would dare to suggest that the Qu’ran was not divinely dictated through the mouth of the Prophet but rather was a compilation of a charismatic man’s words made many years after his death, and incorporating, with no very great originality, Judaic, Christian, and Zoroastrian elements. In my experience, devout Muslims expect and demand a freedom to criticize, often with perspicacity, the doctrines and customs of others, while demanding an exaggerated degree of respect and freedom from criticism for their own doctrines and customs. I recall, for example, staying with a Pakistani Muslim in East Africa, a very decent and devout man, who nevertheless spent several evenings with me deriding the absurdities of Christianity: the paradoxes of the Trinity, the impossibility of Resurrection, and so forth. Though no Christian myself, had I replied in kind, alluding to the pagan absurdities of the pilgrimage to Mecca, or to the gross, ignorant, and primitive superstitions of the Prophet with regard to jinn, I doubt that our friendship would have lasted long.

The unassailable status of the Qu’ran in Islamic education, thought, and society is ultimately Islam’s greatest disadvantage in the modern world. Such unassailability does not debar a society from great artistic achievement or charms of its own: great and marvelous civilizations have flourished without the slightest intellectual freedom. I myself prefer a souk to a supermarket any day, as a more human, if less economically efficient, institution. But until Muslims (or former Muslims, as they would then be) are free in their own countries to denounce the Qu’ran as an inferior hodgepodge of contradictory injunctions, without intellectual unity (whether it is so or not)—until they are free to say with Carlyle that the Qu’ran is “a wearisome confused jumble” with “endless iterations, longwindedness, entanglement”—until they are free to remake and modernize the Qu’ran by creative interpretation, they will have to reconcile themselves to being, if not helots, at least in the rearguard of humanity, as far as power and technical advance are concerned.

A piece of pulp fiction by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, first published in 1898, when followers of the charismatic fundamentalist leader Muhammad al-Mahdi tried to establish a theocracy in Sudan by revolting against Anglo-Egyptian control, makes precisely this point and captures the contradiction at the heart of contemporary Islam. Called The Tragedy of the Korosko, the book is the story of a small tourist party to Upper Egypt, who are kidnapped and held to ransom by some Mahdists, and then rescued by the Egyptian Camel Corps. (I hesitate, as a Francophile, to point out to American readers that there is a French character in the book, who, until he is himself captured by the Mahdists, believes that they are but a figment of the British imagination, to give perfidious Albion a pretext to interfere in Sudanese affairs.) A mullah among the Mahdists who capture the tourists attempts to convert the Europeans and Americans to Islam, deriding as unimportant and insignificant their technically superior civilization: “ ‘As to the [scientific] learning of which you speak . . . ’ said the Moolah . . . ‘I have myself studied at the University of Al Azhar at Cairo, and I know that to which you allude. But the learning of the faithful is not as the learning of the unbeliever, and it is not fitting that we pry too deeply into the ways of Allah. Some stars have tails . . . and some have not; but what does it profit us to know which are which? For God made them all, and they are very safe in His hands. Therefore . . . be not puffed up by the foolish learning of the West, and understand that there is only one wisdom, which consists in following the will of Allah as His chosen prophet has laid it down for us in this book.’ ”

This is by no means a despicable argument. One of the reasons that we can appreciate the art and literature of the past, and sometimes of the very distant past, is that the fundamental conditions of human existence remain the same, however much we advance in the technical sense: I have myself argued in these pages that human self-understanding, except in purely technical matters, reached its apogee with Shakespeare. In a sense, the mullah is right.

But if we made a fetish of Shakespeare (much richer and more profound than the Qu’ran, in my view), if we made him the sole object of our study and the sole guide of our lives, we would soon enough fall into backwardness and stagnation. And the problem is that so many Muslims want both stagnation and power: they want a return to the perfection of the seventh century and to dominate the twenty-first, as they believe is the birthright of their doctrine, the last testament of God to man. If they were content to exist in a seventh-century backwater, secure in a quietist philosophy, there would be no problem for them or us; their problem, and ours, is that they want the power that free inquiry confers, without either the free inquiry or the philosophy and institutions that guarantee that free inquiry. They are faced with a dilemma: either they abandon their cherished religion, or they remain forever in the rear of human technical advance. Neither alternative is very appealing; and the tension between their desire for power and success in the modern world on the one hand, and their desire not to abandon their religion on the other, is resolvable for some only by exploding themselves as bombs.

People grow angry when faced with an intractable dilemma; they lash out. Whenever I have described in print the cruelties my young Muslim patients endure, I receive angry replies: I am either denounced outright as a liar, or the writer acknowledges that such cruelties take place but are attributable to a local culture, in this case Punjabi, not to Islam, and that I am ignorant not to know it.

But Punjabi Sikhs also arrange marriages: they do not, however, force consanguineous marriages of the kind that take place from Madras to Morocco. Moreover—and not, I believe, coincidentally—Sikh immigrants from the Punjab, of no higher original social status than their Muslim confrères from the same provinces, integrate far better into the local society once they have immigrated. Precisely because their religion is a more modest one, with fewer universalist pretensions, they find the duality of their new identity more easily navigable. On the 50th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth’s reign, for example, the Sikh temples were festooned with perfectly genuine protestations of congratulations and loyalty. No such protestations on the part of Muslims would be thinkable.

But the anger of Muslims, their demand that their sensibilities should be accorded a more than normal respect, is a sign not of the strength but of the weakness—or rather, the brittleness—of Islam in the modern world, the desperation its adherents feel that it could so easily fall to pieces. The control that Islam has over its populations in an era of globalization reminds me of the hold that the Ceausescus appeared to have over the Rumanians: an absolute hold, until Ceausescu appeared one day on the balcony and was jeered by the crowd that had lost its fear. The game was over, as far as Ceausescu was concerned, even if there had been no preexisting conspiracy to oust him.

One sign of the increasing weakness of Islam’s hold over its nominal adherents in Britain—of which militancy is itself but another sign—is the throng of young Muslim men in prison. They will soon overtake the young men of Jamaican origin in their numbers and in the extent of their criminality. By contrast, young Sikhs and Hindus are almost completely absent from prison, so racism is not the explanation for such Muslim overrepresentation.

Confounding expectations, these prisoners display no interest in Islam whatsoever; they are entirely secularized. True, they still adhere to Muslim marriage customs, but only for the obvious personal advantage of having a domestic slave at home. Many of them also dot the city with their concubines—sluttish white working-class girls or exploitable young Muslims who have fled forced marriages and do not know that their young men are married. This is not religion, but having one’s cake and eating it.

The young Muslim men in prison do not pray; they do not demand halal meat. They do not read the Qu’ran. They do not ask to see the visiting imam. They wear no visible signs of piety: their main badge of allegiance is a gold front tooth, which proclaims them members of the city’s criminal subculture—a badge (of honor, they think) that they share with young Jamaicans, though their relations with the Jamaicans are otherwise fraught with hostility. The young Muslim men want wives at home to cook and clean for them, concubines elsewhere, and drugs and rock ‘n’ roll. As for Muslim proselytism in the prison—and Muslim literature has been insinuated into nooks and crannies there far more thoroughly than any Christian literature—it is directed mainly at the Jamaican prisoners. It answers their need for an excuse to go straight, while not at the same time surrendering to the morality of a society they believe has wronged them deeply. Indeed, conversion to Islam is their revenge upon that society, for they sense that their newfound religion is fundamentally opposed to it. By conversion, therefore, they kill two birds with one stone.

But Islam has no improving or inhibiting effect upon the behavior of my city’s young Muslim men, who, in astonishing numbers, have taken to heroin, a habit almost unknown among their Sikh and Hindu contemporaries. The young Muslims not only take heroin but deal in it, and have adopted all the criminality attendant on the trade.

What I think these young Muslim prisoners demonstrate is that the rigidity of the traditional code by which their parents live, with its universalist pretensions and emphasis on outward conformity to them, is all or nothing; when it dissolves, it dissolves completely and leaves nothing in its place. The young Muslims then have little defense against the egotistical licentiousness they see about them and that they all too understandably take to be the summum bonum of Western life.

Observing this, of course, there are among Muslim youth a tiny minority who reject this absorption into the white lumpenproletariat and turn militant or fundamentalist. It is their perhaps natural, or at least understandable, reaction to the failure of our society, kowtowing to absurd and dishonest multiculturalist pieties, to induct them into the best of Western culture: into that spirit of free inquiry and personal freedom that has so transformed the life chances of every person in the world, whether he knows it or not.

Islam in the modern world is weak and brittle, not strong: that accounts for its so frequent shrillness. The Shah will, sooner or later, triumph over the Ayatollah in Iran, because human nature decrees it, though meanwhile millions of lives will have been ruined and impoverished. The Iranian refugees who have flooded into the West are fleeing Islam, not seeking to extend its dominion, as I know from speaking to many in my city. To be sure, fundamentalist Islam will be very dangerous for some time to come, and all of us, after all, live only in the short term; but ultimately the fate of the Church of England awaits it. Its melancholy, withdrawing roar may well (unlike that of the Church of England) be not just long but bloody, but withdraw it will. The fanatics and the bombers do not represent a resurgence of unreformed, fundamentalist Islam, but its death rattle.

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