or is it just something only nerds

[hilaina]

Musicians, do you consider video game music to be "serious music"? What do you think? Is video game music "serious" music, or is it just something only nerds should and could really get into?

[gaminwench]

I think 'serious' music involves actual instruments.

[MacGlenver]

Was that a troll for the electronic lovers out there to chime in? *chime chime*

Music is music. Pretty sure the designation of "serious" is completely subjective and essentially meaningless. there is no right answer.

[FossaFerox]

I forget where I originally came across this particular argument, but look at it this way. Early video game music is some of the only music on the planet that people can generally tolerate on such a short loop for such a long duration. There's artistry in weaving such subtle, memorable, resonant, yet infinitely tolerable melodies, especially with the early hardware limitations.

if you think that's an easy task just look at how massively elevator and call-center holding music have continued to fail at what is essentially the same task.

Modern chip-tunes and the like mostly play on nostalgia by invoking strong memories from the audience while relying on broader, more established EDM practices.

Now, were you attacking EDM in general? If so, you're pretty seriously uninformed, but I'll save the several pages of explanation for when you explain your complaint.

[VultureChow]

I forget where I originally came across this particular argument, but look at it this way. Early video game music is some of the only music on the planet that people can generally tolerate on such a short loop for such a long duration. There's artistry in weaving such subtle, memorable, resonant, yet infinitely tolerable melodies, especially with the early hardware limitations.

I never thought of it that way, but you are right about the early video game music.

And regardless, even if they are simply repetitive simple melodies, so are tons of songs that we would consider music. Every children's song. Folk songs. Au claire de la lune.

Also:

[media]

[Captain Goddammit]

I think it can be well argued that "instruments" can be electronic - or mechanical or metal of wood or what-have-you. There were pianos in so-called "classical" music that were pretty high-tech at the time Beethoven was writing future Chuck Berry songs.
There are electronic organs.
I remember my mom (RIP over 25 years ago), who was a classical pianist, having her friend Duke bringing over his new synthesizer (it was a huge thing that said Moog on it, looked like an old phone operator's switchboard mounted in a steamer trunk) in about 1970. They plugged her electric harpsichord into it and made all sorts of music.
Fast forward to today's computerized electronic music setups that you cannot possibly go to Burning Man without becoming aquatinted with... If the earlier music makers who are now considered classic composers had such things in their day, I'm willing to speculate that they'd have found a way to incorporate them. They did use an occasional CANNON didn't they?!!!!

So I'm willing to say I think video game music is just as real as any.

Whether it sucks or not, well that's personal opinion that I think is wide open for debate!

[unjonharley]

There is no talent in manufactured noise..

It takes no talent to the claim of being a DJ.

[Captain Goddammit]

Well yeah it does, to be a good one. There are definitely good ones and shitty ones.

[theCryptofishist]

So much of what's been said is absolutely correct. Captain Goddammit did really well with this:

I think it can be well argued that "instruments" can be electronic - or mechanical or metal of wood or what-have-you. There were pianos in so-called "classical" music that were pretty high-tech at the time Beethoven was writing future Chuck Berry songs.
There are electronic organs.
I remember my mom (RIP over 25 years ago), who was a classical pianist, having her friend Duke bringing over his new synthesizer (it was a huge thing that said Moog on it, looked like an old phone operator's switchboard mounted in a steamer trunk) in about 1970. They plugged her electric harpsichord into it and made all sorts of music.
Fast forward to today's computerized electronic music setups that you cannot possibly go to Burning Man without becoming aquatinted with... If the earlier music makers who are now considered classic composers had such things in their day, I'm willing to speculate that they'd have found a way to incorporate them. They did use an occasional CANNON didn't they?!!!!

But what I really want to say concerns this:

I forget where I originally came across this particular argument, but look at it this way. Early video game music is some of the only music on the planet that people can generally tolerate on such a short loop for such a long duration. There's artistry in weaving such subtle, memorable, resonant, yet infinitely tolerable melodies, especially with the early hardware limitations.

I never thought of it that way, but you are right about the early video game music.

I would love to find out what all the songs are that were on that early version of Tetris that was for the mac. There was a different song for every level, plus songs for the high score page, and the other static pages that weren't the actual game. At one time, I thought it would be pretty funny to line up a Red Army Chorus play list in that exact order--although, I don't think they did the Nutcracker...

[theCryptofishist]

Oh yeah, we are a species that tinkers, and some of us tinker with sound--no matter how made. And sometimes goofy commercial stuff is as good or better as the high art being created at the same time.
Although, I don't play video games, and so I don't have much acquaintance with the music.

Have we had any musicians answer yet?

[MacGlenver]

There is no talent in manufactured noise..

It takes no talent to the claim of being a DJ.

Perhaps you mean "it doesn't imply talent when one claims to be a DJ"? That, as the Captain said, I would agree with. Good DJs, however, are absolutely talented musicians. The "notes" they play are just much longer than most musicians'.

[The Rod]

Early video game music is some of the only music on the planet that people can generally tolerate on such a short loop for such a long duration. There's artistry in weaving such subtle, memorable, resonant, yet infinitely tolerable melodies, especially with the early hardware limitations.

Super Mario Bros., for many years the best-selling video game of all time, was Kondo's first major score. The game's melodies were created with the intention that short segments of music could be endlessly repeated during the same gameplay without causing boredom.

Koji Kondo was the first serious musician who was hired by Nintendo for the purpose of composing music for teh video gamez. He scored such classics as Super Mario Bros and The Legend of Zelda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koji_Kondo



Again, the fact that such simple repetitive melodies have endured for so long, been performed by so many other artists and are so recognizable today speaks to idea that they are serious pieces of music.

[media]

[The Rod]

And nothing says serious like the Russian folk song 'Korobeiniki'. Or as it is now known in America, 'The Tetris Song'.

[media]

[trilobyte]

I'm moving this over to Open Discussion, since that's a better fit.

Music can be made with anything. There's no official decree of something being an instrument or not, look at jug bands, or any number of incredibly fucking talented kids putting classically trained drummers to shame using nothing more than upturned buckets on a streetcorner.

Video game music is a pretty wide-ranging and vague term, though. Games can include any genre or style of music they choose to, and simulate any instrument the game's creators want. Trent Reznor's soundtrack to Quake in the 90's is a good example of cutting edge video game music (both at the time, and probably still today), cutting edge, weird, creepy, and perfect for the title. The OP may be meaning something more akin to the chiptunes/8-bit sounds genre. Not my cup of tea at all, but definitely a valid genre and kind of music. I remember going to a chiptunes event at an area club shortly after arriving in San Francisco, they not only had several stages of people pulling off some talented performances but it was very well attended by what seemed like a pretty wide range of people (it wasn't just a geek night). Will it ever dominate the Billboard Hot 100? Not likely, but then neither will jug bands or many other niche genres.

[FossaFerox]

Getting back to Unjon's comment, please remember that most big name DJs aren't just arranging or remixing other artists' pieces, they're composers in their own right. They are literally creating something out of nothing but thought, vision, and effort. The stuff they create meets all of the criteria of music and has the same type of effect on an appreciative audience as any other style of music. They're just composing with slightly different aims.

Remember that most music at its simplest is universal. It resonates with something inside of us, whether you choose to believe this is because of some innate structure in the brain or some innate quality of our souls. You can play Moonlight Sonata to someone who's never heard classical music or anything like it in their life and they can describe the same emotional connection as you or I (granted, with a personal twist depending on their own experiences).

Electronic artists are simply targeting smaller niches, more subtle mechanisms or qualities in our brains or souls (depending on your point of view) and due to their subtle nature it takes a conditioned audience to hit them properly (experience with the genre, not referring to drugs here). Done right, and with the right audience, EDM can resonate in ways that more conventional instrumentation often struggles to achieve. That is to say, appreciating the more involved end of any spectrum of music requires a bit of conditioning and experience with the genre, ideally at a young age.

So when you complain that electronic stuff sounds "like noise", just remember that 50 years ago people your age were making the same complaints about Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, the Beatles, etc.

[unjonharley]

Oh bullshit.. Hendrix changed music forever.. And the beatles ruined music forever.. People try to copy Hendrix and only make noise.. The Beatles come along with " beating three or four words" until your half nut from it.. That is not music..

Hendrix could make that guitar talk.. I have never heard anyone do it after him..

The true test of a recording is if it still remembered ten years later.. Most of the shit today is gone in a week..

A real DJ can keep me on the dance floor.. Ravers and dumb asses will get up and jump around if someone whacks two sticks togeather..

[FossaFerox]

Right. Because Daft Punk didn't start 27 fucking years ago and aren't still releasing immensely popular tracks while their back catalog is celebrated. And Deadmau5, one of the biggest headliners in the EDM scene today definitely didn't release his first album just shy of 10 years ago, an album that still sees consistent play. That's totally not the reality we live in. How silly of me.

As you yourself asserted there are good and bad artists in every genre and generation. Writing off an entire modern movement just makes you look silly, closed minded, and really, really old.

[GreyCoyote]

Writing off an entire modern movement just makes you look silly, closed minded, and really, really old.

Well... duh. Newsflash! He is.

[unjonharley]

Right. Because Daft Punk didn't start 21 fucking years ago and aren't still releasing immensely popular tracks while their back catalog is celebrated. That's totally not the reality we live in. How silly of me. As you yourself asserted there are good and bad artists in every genre and generation. Writing off an entire modern movement just makes you look silly, closed minded, and really, really old.

There has been nothing new on the music scene for ten years.. It has all been rehashing that same old screaming shit.. You must be from the era of of being able to think for yourself. Without mixing board the untalented bastards would produce nothing..

[FossaFerox]

And without an electric guitar, what would Hendrix have produced? The effects you seem so keen on celebrating were not possible on acoustic guitars. And I guarantee that there were people bemoaning his use of an electric instrument back then, calling him an untalented hack who relied on this newfangled technology.

What tools an artist chooses to use doesn't change whether or not they're an artist. There are people today still making original, interesting music on electric guitars. There are people still using acoustic guitars. So long as they're composing to the same basic end (structured sound that resonates with the audience) they're all making music.

[unjonharley]

I don't care how you photo shop it.. You not going to produce a Van Gogh..
The music shit today is all photo shop in a chamber and mixing board..
The electric guitar was invented in the 1950.. People learn to pick great sounds on the first ones.. 50's rock and roll.. Then Jimmy Hendrix changed the music forever in one day on one stage.. Elves knocked hillbilly out of the pop chart.. R&B started back with Billy Holiday and the blues. Leadbetter's prison blues turned into blue grass then hillbilly..Elvas turned hillbilly into rock-a-billy then modern rock-&-roll.. Then came Mick and Kiss Maybe a couple more..Then the music turned to shit noise..

[theCryptofishist]

I like some modern (21st century) music. Dresden Dolls/Amanda Palmer... Finntroll... Gogol Bordello (well, some of the stuff, some of it annoys the hell out of me)... Rammstein... Daniel Kahn and the Painted Bird...

Some of those I'd defend as good music, some of the other stuff maybe not. But I'm struck by how random my discovery of some of these bands is... Gogol Bordello was, at least, the old fashioned way of hearing it at a record store where I was shopping, and asking what it was. Rammstein? A friend and I were looking at plane crash videos on youtube, and there was a video of remote control airplane crashes, and Sonne was the sound track and I couldn't get it out of my head. And Finntroll is really the weirdest story. I was looking up "accordion" on wikipedia and they referenced Finntroll and I poked around and liked it.

I think there's be a huge explosion in the availability of music, but there hasn't really been much separation of wheat and chaff. And there's lots and lots of chaff... Radio, for instance, maybe even MTV, served as a gatekeeper to past generations, but it's a lot rawer now.

[trilobyte]

I hate when we all fall for a trollbaiting post.

[The Rod]

I like that grandpa mentions Kiss as something that happened before music turned to shit noise...

For the record: I love Kiss, but Gene and Paul were and are two of the biggest destructive forces responsible for the demise of truly great rock and roll, even though there is still some great rock and roll trickling through the cracks here and there...

Any way you slice it, it's all shit noise except for the crap you like. Perspectives and opinions and all that garbage.

The era of thinking for yourself? When the fuck was that? I am BUMMED I missed out on that one.

But oh Man! I cannot wait to see what kinds of crap kids are listening to when I'm a crochety old turnip.

I hate when we all fall for a trollbaiting post.

It's just like love, some of us fall more often, or harder than others. You feel all passionate and shit in the moment but afterwards are left wondering "what the fuck was I thinking?"

[trilobyte]

So true

[Ugly Dougly]

[media]

[tatonka]

here is my 2 nieces sons enjoying it
lol
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=312571965564074

[Wrath]

I think 'serious' music involves actual instruments.

This made me all sorts of mad.

Music is music. It doesn't matter if it's made by blowing into a metal pipe, or banging on a empty glass bottle, or commanding electrons dancing inside computer chips. If it has rhythm & melody, it's music.

[theCryptofishist]

I think 'serious' music involves actual instruments.

This made me all sorts of mad.

Music is music. It doesn't matter if it's made by blowing into a metal pipe, or banging on a empty glass bottle, or commanding electrons dancing inside computer chips. If it has rhythm & melody, it's music.

See, the inverted commas tell me not to take offense. It seems to me that she's not buying the idea of "serious" music being done in exactly such a way.

Of course, I like good punctuation, and tend to view ambiguous, possibly bad, punctuation, in a favorable light.

[5280MeV]

Rock is electronic music anyway. The guitar doesn't really make much of a sound, it just provides a waveform to be picked up by a microphone, manipulated with all sorts of analog effects, and then amplified drive a speaker cone. It is ALL about electronics - pedals, tubes, transistors, pickups...

The difference is really about the computer. Its computer dance music, it should be called CDM.

There may not be any physical source of the waveform, the computer can simply generate arbitrary waveforms. The computer can play composed notes with perfect pitch and timing. Bach would have loved it. The computer can record, manipulate, store, and playback samples of sound however the composer desires. If the music lacks feeling, that is the fault of the composer, not the computer.

I hate when we all fall for a trollbaiting post.

Sometimes it is deliberate - like kids jumping in mud puddles for the fun of it.