Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....
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sparkletarte
- Posts: 1020
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: valley of the dolls
~
I can't talk about US politics anymore. I get too angry about it, and it just doesn't make sense.
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cowboyangel
- Posts: 6986
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 10:32 pm
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cowboyangel
- Posts: 6986
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 10:32 pm
The Final Solution (Endlösung) for Fallujah and Ramadi
“The propagandist's purpose is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human” Aldous Huxley
Yamin Zakaria
11/06/04 "ICH" -- One can accept the direct loss of life in the course of battle. But when prisoners of war and the general civilian population are gratuitously subjected to torture, abuse and execution, this can only be classified as sheer barbarism, propelled by the innate racism and hatred rather than the heightened instinct of survival produced in battle. Even animals do not exhibit such behavior; they kill only in self-defense or for survival.
We take it for granted that human beings have an innate ability to exhibit higher standards of conduct than the animal kingdom. We often forget that when this ability is misused, human beings can act even lower than animals.
The killing of prisoners, women and children is driven primarily by a mindset that has been developed by the insidious political propaganda broadcasted through the modern day mass media. Indeed, propaganda always paves the way for a nation to commit mass murder. Demonisation of the enemy helps to lighten the guilt of the perpetrators that are conducting the slaughter. This process is essential as blood-stained hands can easily be cleansed but not the guilty minds. Culpability in turn generates fear; the fear of retribution. President Truman restrained from such thoughts when General Douglas MacArthur urged him to use nuclear weapons against North Korea and its ally China.
While modern propaganda techniques were developed by Adolf Hitler and his spin master Joseph Gobbels, it is now the likes of CNN, Fox TV and mainstream radio shows and newspaper editors that have perfected it. The CIA has perfected the torture techniques inherited from the Gestapo and is now ready to implement its version of the final solution (Endlösung) in Fallujah and Ramadi by killing everyone there that opposes its agenda.
The consequence of demonisation through the mass media propaganda is the accumulation of hatred. What happened in Abu-Ghraib and what we see in the short video clips of US soldiers killing defenseless Iraqi civilians are clear evidences of that mindset. This is manifested not just in the conduct of the US soldiers but the US authority as they permitted and at times encouraged the torture and murder of Iraqi prisoners. When soldiers failed, hired torturers (‘civilian’ contractors) were brought in to complete the job. And now they are ready for Fallujah and Ramadi.
Such cold blooded acts constitute real hatred, bigotry and fanaticism which are at the root of US fundamentalism. It is the Islamic world that has been the victim of US militancy and fanaticism not the other way around. Like most real fanatics, the US refuses to examine its conduct or engage in any kind of self-evaluation. Even when caught red-handed, such as in the case of the absent WMDs and Abu Ghraib, the mistake is either marginalized or justified rather than admitting to it and correcting it.
The US is full of hate and extremism towards nations that do not comply with its agenda and answers the questions why the US is hated. George Bush proclaimed he could not understand why the Islamic world cannot see the good side of the Americans. That becomes difficult when you are bombing and plundering their nations even in violation of your own lectured principles! Hypocrites intoxicated with imperial power have no shame. You can remove the fig leaf of pretexts but like its men and women the US finds no shame in crass nudity.
It might be a good time to remember that the original goal was one of disarming Iraq of its mythical WMD’s. Their absence was ironically established by committing mass destruction in Iraq. Ugly murderous hypocrites have no shame so they moved the goal post to the removal of Saddam Hussein. Now that Saddam is in custody, what can possibly be the reason for maintaining the US presence there? Yes, good old colonialism. For the US to leave now would be to give up its real booty why it really went there in there in the first place; oil, regional control and cheap labor.
In contrast, the emotions expressed in the Islamic world are not one of hate but anger. There is a very important distinction. Hate has resulted from the US brainwashing their citizens by subjecting them to endless amounts of propaganda demonizing the Muslim community. From tabloids to mainstream press to Hollywood blockbusters, the portrayal of Muslims and Islam are simply racism. Muslims feel anger due to the circumstances imposed upon them by the US foreign policy.
The recent message of Osama Bin Laden was not one of hate like the Ku Klux Klan or like some rightwing media outlet. He has never uttered once “we hate all Americans and want to kill them” but this is the assumption in the minds of many Americans like they assume Iraq had somehow attacked the US or posed a significant threat to US security that have been carefully fun by the US government.
Osama Bin Laden’s central theme in his latest message is once of retribution. He was very precise when he referred to America’s insecurity arising not from its military weaknesses but its foreign policy. His message is not that of an irrational person who enjoys killing like the US soldiers apparently do with their high-tech weapons being detonated Hollywood styled like they are playing some video game. This made it was difficult for the US administration to respond to other than with one line of meaningless rhetoric.
The motives of Al-Qaeda are pretty much a taboo subject for a dutiful US media that fears culpability; it is much easier to paint Bin Laden as an irrational man bent on killing all infidels. Such superficial views are easy for its superficial masses to swallow in particular the hysterical Christian fundamentalist; the powerbase of the neo-cons and George Bush.
Meanwhile, the more liberal and intelligent Americans are still trying to figure out what happened on the 2nd of November. Unfortunately the train is moving out of the station and there is no more time to wait. Endlösung for Fallujah and Ramadi is about to be delivered and Americans are poised to simply turn their heads away.
Copyright © 2004 by Yamin Zakaria. Email - <[email protected]>
“The propagandist's purpose is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human” Aldous Huxley
Yamin Zakaria
11/06/04 "ICH" -- One can accept the direct loss of life in the course of battle. But when prisoners of war and the general civilian population are gratuitously subjected to torture, abuse and execution, this can only be classified as sheer barbarism, propelled by the innate racism and hatred rather than the heightened instinct of survival produced in battle. Even animals do not exhibit such behavior; they kill only in self-defense or for survival.
We take it for granted that human beings have an innate ability to exhibit higher standards of conduct than the animal kingdom. We often forget that when this ability is misused, human beings can act even lower than animals.
The killing of prisoners, women and children is driven primarily by a mindset that has been developed by the insidious political propaganda broadcasted through the modern day mass media. Indeed, propaganda always paves the way for a nation to commit mass murder. Demonisation of the enemy helps to lighten the guilt of the perpetrators that are conducting the slaughter. This process is essential as blood-stained hands can easily be cleansed but not the guilty minds. Culpability in turn generates fear; the fear of retribution. President Truman restrained from such thoughts when General Douglas MacArthur urged him to use nuclear weapons against North Korea and its ally China.
While modern propaganda techniques were developed by Adolf Hitler and his spin master Joseph Gobbels, it is now the likes of CNN, Fox TV and mainstream radio shows and newspaper editors that have perfected it. The CIA has perfected the torture techniques inherited from the Gestapo and is now ready to implement its version of the final solution (Endlösung) in Fallujah and Ramadi by killing everyone there that opposes its agenda.
The consequence of demonisation through the mass media propaganda is the accumulation of hatred. What happened in Abu-Ghraib and what we see in the short video clips of US soldiers killing defenseless Iraqi civilians are clear evidences of that mindset. This is manifested not just in the conduct of the US soldiers but the US authority as they permitted and at times encouraged the torture and murder of Iraqi prisoners. When soldiers failed, hired torturers (‘civilian’ contractors) were brought in to complete the job. And now they are ready for Fallujah and Ramadi.
Such cold blooded acts constitute real hatred, bigotry and fanaticism which are at the root of US fundamentalism. It is the Islamic world that has been the victim of US militancy and fanaticism not the other way around. Like most real fanatics, the US refuses to examine its conduct or engage in any kind of self-evaluation. Even when caught red-handed, such as in the case of the absent WMDs and Abu Ghraib, the mistake is either marginalized or justified rather than admitting to it and correcting it.
The US is full of hate and extremism towards nations that do not comply with its agenda and answers the questions why the US is hated. George Bush proclaimed he could not understand why the Islamic world cannot see the good side of the Americans. That becomes difficult when you are bombing and plundering their nations even in violation of your own lectured principles! Hypocrites intoxicated with imperial power have no shame. You can remove the fig leaf of pretexts but like its men and women the US finds no shame in crass nudity.
It might be a good time to remember that the original goal was one of disarming Iraq of its mythical WMD’s. Their absence was ironically established by committing mass destruction in Iraq. Ugly murderous hypocrites have no shame so they moved the goal post to the removal of Saddam Hussein. Now that Saddam is in custody, what can possibly be the reason for maintaining the US presence there? Yes, good old colonialism. For the US to leave now would be to give up its real booty why it really went there in there in the first place; oil, regional control and cheap labor.
In contrast, the emotions expressed in the Islamic world are not one of hate but anger. There is a very important distinction. Hate has resulted from the US brainwashing their citizens by subjecting them to endless amounts of propaganda demonizing the Muslim community. From tabloids to mainstream press to Hollywood blockbusters, the portrayal of Muslims and Islam are simply racism. Muslims feel anger due to the circumstances imposed upon them by the US foreign policy.
The recent message of Osama Bin Laden was not one of hate like the Ku Klux Klan or like some rightwing media outlet. He has never uttered once “we hate all Americans and want to kill them” but this is the assumption in the minds of many Americans like they assume Iraq had somehow attacked the US or posed a significant threat to US security that have been carefully fun by the US government.
Osama Bin Laden’s central theme in his latest message is once of retribution. He was very precise when he referred to America’s insecurity arising not from its military weaknesses but its foreign policy. His message is not that of an irrational person who enjoys killing like the US soldiers apparently do with their high-tech weapons being detonated Hollywood styled like they are playing some video game. This made it was difficult for the US administration to respond to other than with one line of meaningless rhetoric.
The motives of Al-Qaeda are pretty much a taboo subject for a dutiful US media that fears culpability; it is much easier to paint Bin Laden as an irrational man bent on killing all infidels. Such superficial views are easy for its superficial masses to swallow in particular the hysterical Christian fundamentalist; the powerbase of the neo-cons and George Bush.
Meanwhile, the more liberal and intelligent Americans are still trying to figure out what happened on the 2nd of November. Unfortunately the train is moving out of the station and there is no more time to wait. Endlösung for Fallujah and Ramadi is about to be delivered and Americans are poised to simply turn their heads away.
Copyright © 2004 by Yamin Zakaria. Email - <[email protected]>
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981
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cowboyangel
- Posts: 6986
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 10:32 pm
WARNING! EXTREME HORRIFIC VIDEOS AND PICTURES FROM THE IRAQ WAR. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE STOMACH FOR THIS PLEASE LEAVE NOW.
THIS IS NOT A JOKE. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
War is not the solution to ANYTHING. It breeds only more hate, revenge and continual hostility. We cannot shoot our way out of this. This is insane. Do the right thing and write or call your senators and congressmen demanding that we find a better solution than bombing and war to solve this crisis.
Now, here's the link http://ogrish.com/index.htm
THIS IS NOT A JOKE. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
War is not the solution to ANYTHING. It breeds only more hate, revenge and continual hostility. We cannot shoot our way out of this. This is insane. Do the right thing and write or call your senators and congressmen demanding that we find a better solution than bombing and war to solve this crisis.
Now, here's the link http://ogrish.com/index.htm
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981
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DVD Burner
- Posts: 11031
- Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
- Burning Since: 1986
- Camp Name: White Trash Camp
- Contact:
cowboyangel wrote:WARNING! EXTREME HORRIFIC VIDEOS AND PICTURES FROM THE IRAQ WAR. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE STOMACH FOR THIS PLEASE LEAVE NOW.
THIS IS NOT A JOKE. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
War is not the solution to ANYTHING. It breeds only more hate, revenge and continual hostility. We cannot shoot our way out of this. This is insane. Do the right thing and write or call your senators and congressmen demanding that we find a better solution than bombing and war to solve this crisis.
Now, here's the link http://ogrish.com/index.htm
Awww Yeah. Now that's what I'm talkin about. See ya gotta tell it like it is.
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER
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Simply Joel
- Posts: 3483
- Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:08 am
- Location: Land of Lincoln
- Contact:
would you please inform those radical "jihadist" the same information.cowboyangel wrote:WARNING! EXTREME HORRIFIC VIDEOS AND PICTURES FROM THE IRAQ WAR. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE STOMACH FOR THIS PLEASE LEAVE NOW.
THIS IS NOT A JOKE. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
War is not the solution to ANYTHING. It breeds only more hate, revenge and continual hostility. We cannot shoot our way out of this. This is insane. Do the right thing and write or call your senators and congressmen demanding that we find a better solution than bombing and war to solve this crisis.
in this shooting war with Iraq, which actually began with the invasion of Kuwait, it wasn't the USA to take the first shot...
in this shooting with terrorist, it wasn't the USA to take the first shot...
i know the terrible results of war, i also am aware of the terrible results of capitulation. (do a google search on "holocaust")
of course, i am sure... someone will find blame for the USA in that one as well.
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!
slap my salmon, baby
slap my salmon, baby
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Simply Joel
- Posts: 3483
- Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:08 am
- Location: Land of Lincoln
- Contact:
November 8, 2004
The Great Mentioner
By WILLIAM SAFIRE
Washington — The terrorists' Ramadan offensive escalated last weekend, inviting martial law in Iraq and our counterattack to oust the occupiers of Falluja. A pitched battle where firepower is decisive is a loser for guerrilla fighters. Iraq will then proceed to elections, the U.N.'s unhelpful Kofi Annan notwithstanding.
Thus the public side of the Bush administration's internal transition - that unnamed 80 days of relief, regeneration and reaching-out between re-election and second inauguration - will be overshadowed during what we hope will be climactic fighting.
As soon as it ends, expect intense inside jockeying and outside speculation as the president begins to reshuffle his deck and recast some of his characters to keep campaign promises. Unlike Nixon after his landslide re-election, Bush will make no demand for mass resignations (luckily, I got mine in and made it out the door just before Watergate broke). Nor is a sudden exodus in store.
But that will not silence the Great Mentioner.You know how some people go through life basking in the glory of having been "mentioned for" some high post? My old colleague in Times columny, Russ Baker, conjured the oracle: the Great Mentioner. Today that crystal ball is in my court.
The first slot eagerly anticipated to be open by the glum 48 percent of voters is secretary of defense. They will be disappointed anew. Donald Rumsfeld should remain as secretary of defense at least until the backbone of the insurgency is broken, and until his reshaping of our military has taken hold under Marine General Peter Pace, to become Joint Chiefs chairman next fall. Rumsfeld's deputy, Paul Wolfowitz, is likely to become SecDef unless he is moved into the national security adviser's job.
- which is currently held by Condi Rice, a frequent mentionee for the top slot at State now filled by Colin Powell. But Colin, who knows how dreary a book tour can be, may not be as ready to bail out as most Atlanticist pragmaticists like to think.
With Middle East progress possible with the replacement of Yasir Arafat, and with the leaders of the permanent members of the Security Council eager to establish rapport with the re-empowered U.S. president, the job of secretary of state may be far less frustrating. On a competitive level: if you were Powell, would you want to surrender the Bush foreign-policy field to your bureaucratic rival, Rumsfeld?
In the terror war, a new job will be created atop the intelligence world during the lame-duck session: Czar of All Spooks, though stripped of the too-powerful budgetary control the 9/11 commission wanted. Porter Goss, the new C.I.A. chief, has not run an organization larger than a Congressional committee staff, and as management gurus say, "people who have run something are better running things than people who have not." National intelligence director? Here's mentioning the shockingly awesome retired general Tommy Franks.
With moralism redeemed, John Ashcroft can confidently return home. Representative Chris Cox of California, a savvy former White House counsel, is mentionable for attorney general, and that state could use another high-profile Republican. Another prospect is Ted Olson, former solicitor general, unless he is to be Bush's first nominee to the Supreme Court, where he was this generation's most persuasive advocate. Then there are the two Larrys: Larry Thompson, Ashcroft's former deputy, and Laurence Silberman, senior Court of Appeals judge now co-chairing an intelligence commission (unless he gets the czarship I've given General Franks).
At Treasury, John Snow will get a huge new tax reform rolling, perhaps with a bipartisan commission headed by the former senators who pulled off the amazing 1986 tax bill, Bill Bradley and Bob Packwood. In the Treasury wings are Bill Donaldson, after he averts potential disaster in the huge hedge-fund world, and Steve Friedman, now on the Bob Rubin track inside the White House (and the only Bushie capable of wrestling Rumsfeld - both were college stars).
Legacy Project No. 1 is providing Social Security for the post-boomer generation. Needed are a couple of centrist Democrats who know their stuff on this. They are Louisiana's John Breaux, just retired from the Senate, and Charles Stenholm of Texas, just ousted from the House.
And while I'm on heartland Democrats, one mention of a 2008 bumper sticker: Keep Your Eye on Evan Bayh.
Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
The Great Mentioner
By WILLIAM SAFIRE
Washington — The terrorists' Ramadan offensive escalated last weekend, inviting martial law in Iraq and our counterattack to oust the occupiers of Falluja. A pitched battle where firepower is decisive is a loser for guerrilla fighters. Iraq will then proceed to elections, the U.N.'s unhelpful Kofi Annan notwithstanding.
Thus the public side of the Bush administration's internal transition - that unnamed 80 days of relief, regeneration and reaching-out between re-election and second inauguration - will be overshadowed during what we hope will be climactic fighting.
As soon as it ends, expect intense inside jockeying and outside speculation as the president begins to reshuffle his deck and recast some of his characters to keep campaign promises. Unlike Nixon after his landslide re-election, Bush will make no demand for mass resignations (luckily, I got mine in and made it out the door just before Watergate broke). Nor is a sudden exodus in store.
But that will not silence the Great Mentioner.You know how some people go through life basking in the glory of having been "mentioned for" some high post? My old colleague in Times columny, Russ Baker, conjured the oracle: the Great Mentioner. Today that crystal ball is in my court.
The first slot eagerly anticipated to be open by the glum 48 percent of voters is secretary of defense. They will be disappointed anew. Donald Rumsfeld should remain as secretary of defense at least until the backbone of the insurgency is broken, and until his reshaping of our military has taken hold under Marine General Peter Pace, to become Joint Chiefs chairman next fall. Rumsfeld's deputy, Paul Wolfowitz, is likely to become SecDef unless he is moved into the national security adviser's job.
- which is currently held by Condi Rice, a frequent mentionee for the top slot at State now filled by Colin Powell. But Colin, who knows how dreary a book tour can be, may not be as ready to bail out as most Atlanticist pragmaticists like to think.
With Middle East progress possible with the replacement of Yasir Arafat, and with the leaders of the permanent members of the Security Council eager to establish rapport with the re-empowered U.S. president, the job of secretary of state may be far less frustrating. On a competitive level: if you were Powell, would you want to surrender the Bush foreign-policy field to your bureaucratic rival, Rumsfeld?
In the terror war, a new job will be created atop the intelligence world during the lame-duck session: Czar of All Spooks, though stripped of the too-powerful budgetary control the 9/11 commission wanted. Porter Goss, the new C.I.A. chief, has not run an organization larger than a Congressional committee staff, and as management gurus say, "people who have run something are better running things than people who have not." National intelligence director? Here's mentioning the shockingly awesome retired general Tommy Franks.
With moralism redeemed, John Ashcroft can confidently return home. Representative Chris Cox of California, a savvy former White House counsel, is mentionable for attorney general, and that state could use another high-profile Republican. Another prospect is Ted Olson, former solicitor general, unless he is to be Bush's first nominee to the Supreme Court, where he was this generation's most persuasive advocate. Then there are the two Larrys: Larry Thompson, Ashcroft's former deputy, and Laurence Silberman, senior Court of Appeals judge now co-chairing an intelligence commission (unless he gets the czarship I've given General Franks).
At Treasury, John Snow will get a huge new tax reform rolling, perhaps with a bipartisan commission headed by the former senators who pulled off the amazing 1986 tax bill, Bill Bradley and Bob Packwood. In the Treasury wings are Bill Donaldson, after he averts potential disaster in the huge hedge-fund world, and Steve Friedman, now on the Bob Rubin track inside the White House (and the only Bushie capable of wrestling Rumsfeld - both were college stars).
Legacy Project No. 1 is providing Social Security for the post-boomer generation. Needed are a couple of centrist Democrats who know their stuff on this. They are Louisiana's John Breaux, just retired from the Senate, and Charles Stenholm of Texas, just ousted from the House.
And while I'm on heartland Democrats, one mention of a 2008 bumper sticker: Keep Your Eye on Evan Bayh.
Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
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Simply Joel
- Posts: 3483
- Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:08 am
- Location: Land of Lincoln
- Contact:
and the band played on...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
November 8, 2004
More French Troops Are Sent to Ivory Coast as Violence Flares
By SOMINI SENGUPTA
DAKAR, Senegal, Nov. 7 - France sent hundreds more troops to the Ivory Coast commercial center of Abidjan on Sunday, as government loyalists went on a violent rampage taking aim at the homes and businesses of French citizens there, a day after an airstrike by government jets killed nine French peacekeepers.
On Sunday, the government of President Laurent Gbagbo said it had ceased fire and ordered its troops to stop a full-scale offensive on rebel-held territory that began Thursday. The action occurred as the United Nations Security Council discussed concentrated penalties, including an arms embargo and travel bans against people responsible for violating an internationally monitored cease-fire in the country.
Mr. Gbagbo, whose troops began the offensive last week, appeared on state-run television on Sunday night and told his supporters to refrain from all attacks against foreigners in the country. "I am asking all the demonstrators to return home," Reuters quoted him as saying. "You must not give in to provocation."
The latest violence occurred after two government warplanes struck a French Army position near Bouaké in the north on Saturday, killing nine French soldiers and an American civilian. The United Nations, European Union and African Union have condemned the Ivoirian airstrike.
The French retaliated immediately Saturday, sending troops to destroy almost all of the country's combat aircraft, including the two jets involved in the airstrike and at least three attack helicopters, and securing strategic locations in Abidjan, including the main airport.
Throughout the day on Sunday, angry mobs attacked French citizens, as well as other Europeans and Arabs mistaken as French, and looted and rioted across Abidjan, news agency reports said. French soldiers secured vital points in and around Abidjan, and began using helicopters to airlift Europeans to safety.
Mr. Gbagbo's supporters accuse the French of aiding the rebel uprising and trying to depose their president - a charge the French have repeatedly denied.
The French defense minister, Michèle Alliot-Marie, said Sunday that France had deployed an additional 600 troops to Ivory Coast. She told reporters in Paris that the latest reinforcements were not intended "to destabilize Ivoirian institutions."
"Our forces are there to allow this country to recover peace, which is to say to allow for dialogue to resume between the different Ivoirian parties," she said.
French officials said they had no immediate plans to evacuate the roughly 14,000 French citizens living in the former French colony.
Once an affluent and politically stable oasis in West Africa, Ivory Coast fell into chaos in September 2002 after a coup attempt that devolved into a rebellion and partitioned the country between rebel-held north and government-held south. Religious tensions have further complicated the conflict: northerners are primarily Muslim, while the south is Christian-dominated.
In Abidjan, pro-Gbagbo militants, dressed in their signature T-shirts bearing the motto "xenophobe," have been repeatedly accused of attacking northerners. In March, a government crackdown on an opposition protest left 120 people dead.
State-run radio and television on Sunday broadcast what United Nations officials called a barrage of "hate language" intended to whip up hysteria. "This has been a night and day of hate messages," said Jean-Victor Nkolo, a spokesman for the United Nations peacekeeping mission, said by telephone from Abidjan.
French troops in the country, once numbering about 4,500 and soon to top 5,000 after the recent reinforcements, have been monitoring the buffer zone between government and rebel-held land since the conflict began. In addition, 6,240 blue-helmeted United Nations peacekeepers are posted across the country.
In a statement issued Saturday, the Security Council bolstered the authority of United Nations peacekeepers to take all necessary means "to prevent any hostile action," Mr. Nkolo said. Previously, those troops had been entrusted with monitoring the cease-fire between government and insurgent troops.
In New York, discussions were under way among members of the Security Council to impose penalties. "It is for the Security Council to see what is feasible in this area to strengthen the signal that violence is a dead-end street," the spokesman for the French Foreign Ministry, Hervé Ladsous, said Sunday.
Ariane Bernard contributed reporting from Paris for this article.
Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
November 8, 2004
More French Troops Are Sent to Ivory Coast as Violence Flares
By SOMINI SENGUPTA
DAKAR, Senegal, Nov. 7 - France sent hundreds more troops to the Ivory Coast commercial center of Abidjan on Sunday, as government loyalists went on a violent rampage taking aim at the homes and businesses of French citizens there, a day after an airstrike by government jets killed nine French peacekeepers.
On Sunday, the government of President Laurent Gbagbo said it had ceased fire and ordered its troops to stop a full-scale offensive on rebel-held territory that began Thursday. The action occurred as the United Nations Security Council discussed concentrated penalties, including an arms embargo and travel bans against people responsible for violating an internationally monitored cease-fire in the country.
Mr. Gbagbo, whose troops began the offensive last week, appeared on state-run television on Sunday night and told his supporters to refrain from all attacks against foreigners in the country. "I am asking all the demonstrators to return home," Reuters quoted him as saying. "You must not give in to provocation."
The latest violence occurred after two government warplanes struck a French Army position near Bouaké in the north on Saturday, killing nine French soldiers and an American civilian. The United Nations, European Union and African Union have condemned the Ivoirian airstrike.
The French retaliated immediately Saturday, sending troops to destroy almost all of the country's combat aircraft, including the two jets involved in the airstrike and at least three attack helicopters, and securing strategic locations in Abidjan, including the main airport.
Throughout the day on Sunday, angry mobs attacked French citizens, as well as other Europeans and Arabs mistaken as French, and looted and rioted across Abidjan, news agency reports said. French soldiers secured vital points in and around Abidjan, and began using helicopters to airlift Europeans to safety.
Mr. Gbagbo's supporters accuse the French of aiding the rebel uprising and trying to depose their president - a charge the French have repeatedly denied.
The French defense minister, Michèle Alliot-Marie, said Sunday that France had deployed an additional 600 troops to Ivory Coast. She told reporters in Paris that the latest reinforcements were not intended "to destabilize Ivoirian institutions."
"Our forces are there to allow this country to recover peace, which is to say to allow for dialogue to resume between the different Ivoirian parties," she said.
French officials said they had no immediate plans to evacuate the roughly 14,000 French citizens living in the former French colony.
Once an affluent and politically stable oasis in West Africa, Ivory Coast fell into chaos in September 2002 after a coup attempt that devolved into a rebellion and partitioned the country between rebel-held north and government-held south. Religious tensions have further complicated the conflict: northerners are primarily Muslim, while the south is Christian-dominated.
In Abidjan, pro-Gbagbo militants, dressed in their signature T-shirts bearing the motto "xenophobe," have been repeatedly accused of attacking northerners. In March, a government crackdown on an opposition protest left 120 people dead.
State-run radio and television on Sunday broadcast what United Nations officials called a barrage of "hate language" intended to whip up hysteria. "This has been a night and day of hate messages," said Jean-Victor Nkolo, a spokesman for the United Nations peacekeeping mission, said by telephone from Abidjan.
French troops in the country, once numbering about 4,500 and soon to top 5,000 after the recent reinforcements, have been monitoring the buffer zone between government and rebel-held land since the conflict began. In addition, 6,240 blue-helmeted United Nations peacekeepers are posted across the country.
In a statement issued Saturday, the Security Council bolstered the authority of United Nations peacekeepers to take all necessary means "to prevent any hostile action," Mr. Nkolo said. Previously, those troops had been entrusted with monitoring the cease-fire between government and insurgent troops.
In New York, discussions were under way among members of the Security Council to impose penalties. "It is for the Security Council to see what is feasible in this area to strengthen the signal that violence is a dead-end street," the spokesman for the French Foreign Ministry, Hervé Ladsous, said Sunday.
Ariane Bernard contributed reporting from Paris for this article.
Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
-
Simply Joel
- Posts: 3483
- Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:08 am
- Location: Land of Lincoln
- Contact:
asylum in the USA or a death sentence in China?
which would you choose for these people?
is there another option, and please go into detail?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
November 8, 2004
Freedom for Chinese Detainees Hinges on Finding a New Homeland
By NEIL A. LEWIS
GUANTÁNAMO BAY, Cuba, Nov. 7 - One of the most vexing and peculiar problems that the imprisonment of people suspected of being terrorists at the naval base here has caused for the Bush administration has been what to do with the ethnic Uighur detainees here.
Guantánamo has 22 Uighur (pronounced WEE-ger) detainees, most captured in Afghanistan. They traveled there from their homeland in the Xinjiang Province of China where the mostly Muslim Uighurs have fought a low-level insurgency against Beijing's rule for years.
United States military officials have concluded that at least half of the Uighurs here are eligible for release, but the prisoners have said they do not want to be returned to China because they fear they will be tortured or killed as terrorists. That has sent United States officials scrambling to find a third country willing to accept the Uighurs. So far, several European countries, including Norway and Switzerland, have declined. European newspapers in other countries have reported that their governments have refused as well.
Beijing, for its part, has asserted that the Uighurs are terrorists and that the United States should return them to China to demonstrate its commitment to fighting terrorism around the world. A spokesman for China's Foreign Ministry warned last week that relations between Washington and Beijing could be harmed if the United States sent any Uighurs to a third country.
One of the Uighurs held at Guantánamo went before a special tribunal on Friday to argue that he was not an unlawful enemy combatant and should not have been arrested in Afghanistan and kept in the detention camp here. The man, a 33-year-old with an artificial left leg, told the military panel that he was not an enemy of the United States and that he hoped America would one day help the Uighur independence movement.
After taking an oath before Allah that he would tell the truth, the man said, "It's true that I went to Afghanistan," explaining that he did so to find a place for his family to live free of Chinese oppression. He disputed a statement that he had told an interrogator that he had been a member of the East Turkistan Islamic Movement, which was defined by the government as an extremist Muslim group in China.
"We fought against the Chinese government for years," he said. "That does not mean we are Al Qaeda." He said he had sought military training and the proper use of a gun to fight the Chinese in the future.
At various times, he said that there was no proof he had been involved with Al Qaeda. "Do you have any proof that I am with Al Qaeda? Any real proof?"
When he was told that there was evidence of his association but that it was classified and he could not see it, he said, "I can't bring any evidence against the classified information I cannot see."
Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
which would you choose for these people?
is there another option, and please go into detail?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
November 8, 2004
Freedom for Chinese Detainees Hinges on Finding a New Homeland
By NEIL A. LEWIS
GUANTÁNAMO BAY, Cuba, Nov. 7 - One of the most vexing and peculiar problems that the imprisonment of people suspected of being terrorists at the naval base here has caused for the Bush administration has been what to do with the ethnic Uighur detainees here.
Guantánamo has 22 Uighur (pronounced WEE-ger) detainees, most captured in Afghanistan. They traveled there from their homeland in the Xinjiang Province of China where the mostly Muslim Uighurs have fought a low-level insurgency against Beijing's rule for years.
United States military officials have concluded that at least half of the Uighurs here are eligible for release, but the prisoners have said they do not want to be returned to China because they fear they will be tortured or killed as terrorists. That has sent United States officials scrambling to find a third country willing to accept the Uighurs. So far, several European countries, including Norway and Switzerland, have declined. European newspapers in other countries have reported that their governments have refused as well.
Beijing, for its part, has asserted that the Uighurs are terrorists and that the United States should return them to China to demonstrate its commitment to fighting terrorism around the world. A spokesman for China's Foreign Ministry warned last week that relations between Washington and Beijing could be harmed if the United States sent any Uighurs to a third country.
One of the Uighurs held at Guantánamo went before a special tribunal on Friday to argue that he was not an unlawful enemy combatant and should not have been arrested in Afghanistan and kept in the detention camp here. The man, a 33-year-old with an artificial left leg, told the military panel that he was not an enemy of the United States and that he hoped America would one day help the Uighur independence movement.
After taking an oath before Allah that he would tell the truth, the man said, "It's true that I went to Afghanistan," explaining that he did so to find a place for his family to live free of Chinese oppression. He disputed a statement that he had told an interrogator that he had been a member of the East Turkistan Islamic Movement, which was defined by the government as an extremist Muslim group in China.
"We fought against the Chinese government for years," he said. "That does not mean we are Al Qaeda." He said he had sought military training and the proper use of a gun to fight the Chinese in the future.
At various times, he said that there was no proof he had been involved with Al Qaeda. "Do you have any proof that I am with Al Qaeda? Any real proof?"
When he was told that there was evidence of his association but that it was classified and he could not see it, he said, "I can't bring any evidence against the classified information I cannot see."
Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
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tonytohono
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DVD Burner wrote:cowboyangel wrote:WARNING! EXTREME HORRIFIC VIDEOS AND PICTURES FROM THE IRAQ WAR. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE STOMACH FOR THIS PLEASE LEAVE NOW.
THIS IS NOT A JOKE. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
War is not the solution to ANYTHING. It breeds only more hate, revenge and continual hostility. We cannot shoot our way out of this. This is insane. Do the right thing and write or call your senators and congressmen demanding that we find a better solution than bombing and war to solve this crisis.
Now, here's the link http://ogrish.com/index.htm
Awww Yeah. Now that's what I'm talkin about. See ya gotta tell it like it is.
just wanted to get this ontop of the pile again. If every US citizen were given the opportunity to watch this on the evening news, maybe they'd have a different view on war
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981
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DVD Burner
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Along with Rummy boy's chemicals and arms he sold to Sadam. No it was'nt the U.S. to send the first shot, it was just the C.I.A. that helped put Sadam in power in the first place.Simply Joel wrote:
would you please inform those radical "jihadist" the same information.
in this shooting war with Iraq, which actually began with the invasion of Kuwait, it wasn't the USA to take the first shot...
in this shooting with terrorist, it wasn't the USA to take the first shot...
i know the terrible results of war, i also am aware of the terrible results of capitulation. (do a google search on "holocaust")
of course, i am sure... someone will find blame for the USA in that one as well.
Please the least you can do if your gonna try to semi make your point dont go and tell anyone to do research if you're not gonna do it yourself.
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Simply Joel
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DVD Burner wrote:fortunately, i don't agree with your perspective... i stand by "who took the firt shot" it wasn't the USA, from my perspective on historySimply Joel wrote:
would you please inform those radical "jihadist" the same information.
in this shooting war with Iraq, which actually began with the invasion of Kuwait, it wasn't the USA to take the first shot...
in this shooting with terrorist, it wasn't the USA to take the first shot...
i know the terrible results of war, i also am aware of the terrible results of capitulation. (do a google search on "holocaust")
of course, i am sure... someone will find blame for the USA in that one as well.
Along with Rummy boy's chemicals and arms he sold to Sadam. No it was'nt the U.S. to send the first shot, it was just the C.I.A. that helped put Sadam in power in the first place.
Please the least you can do if your gonna try to semi make your point dont go and tell anyone to do research if you're not gonna do it yourself.
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!
slap my salmon, baby
slap my salmon, baby
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Simply Joel
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it should have read this way.
Simply Joel wrote:DVD Burner wrote:Simply Joel wrote:
would you please inform those radical "jihadist" the same information.
in this shooting war with Iraq, which actually began with the invasion of Kuwait, it wasn't the USA to take the first shot...
in this shooting with terrorist, it wasn't the USA to take the first shot...
i know the terrible results of war, i also am aware of the terrible results of capitulation. (do a google search on "holocaust")
of course, i am sure... someone will find blame for the USA in that one as well.
Along with Rummy boy's chemicals and arms he sold to Sadam. No it was'nt the U.S. to send the first shot, it was just the C.I.A. that helped put Sadam in power in the first place.
Please the least you can do if your gonna try to semi make your point dont go and tell anyone to do research if you're not gonna do it yourself.
fortunately, i don't agree with your perspective... i stand by "who took the firt shot" it wasn't the USA, from my perspective on history
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!
slap my salmon, baby
slap my salmon, baby
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DVD Burner
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buckethead alien
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geekster
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Show me a cite ANYWHERE that says the CIA had ANYTHING to do with installing Saddam. The guy pretty much murdered his way to power with the help of his uncle. It wasn't until 1980 that we started to see Iraq in a friendly light. Prior to that time, Iraq was pretty much in the Soviet orbit with its military equipped with Soviet hardware and trained by Russians. After the "loss" of Iran, we began to court Saddam.DVD Burner wrote: Along with Rummy boy's chemicals and arms he sold to Sadam. No it was'nt the U.S. to send the first shot, it was just the C.I.A. that helped put Sadam in power in the first place.
Please the least you can do if your gonna try to semi make your point dont go and tell anyone to do research if you're not gonna do it yourself.
When Saddam was given control of the legislative body, his first action was to read off a number of names of other delegates whereupon they were taken outside and shot. The man is secular, pragmatic, paranoid, and ruthless.
Even to this day, the Iraqi army and air force is equiped with mainly Soviet era weaponry. DVD, please give me some data on US chemical arms shipments to Iraq. Or do all you have is unconfirmed reports from unnamed sources of alleged activities?
George Washington University's National Security Archive is a nice source of information. I haven't looked through it all, you might even find something to back up your position here ...
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/special/iraq/index.htm
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB107/
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
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Simply Joel
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weather = www.noaa.govDVD Burner wrote:Dude, argue the facts all you want. Just like you argue Prescott Bush's involvement in Hitler's rise to power.
These are the facts weather you want to disagree with them or not.
or
Main Entry: 1weath·er
Pronunciation: 'we-[th]&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English weder, from Old English; akin to Old High German wetar weather, Old Church Slavonic vetru wind
1 : the state of the atmosphere with respect to heat or cold, wetness or dryness, calm or storm, clearness or cloudiness
2 : state or vicissitude of life or fortune
3 : disagreeable atmospheric conditions: as a : RAIN, STORM b : cold air with dampness
whether
Main Entry: 1wheth·er
Pronunciation: 'hwe-[th]&r, 'we-, (")(h)w&-
Function: pronoun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English hwæther, hwether; akin to Old High German hwedar which of two, Latin uter, Greek poteros, Old English hwA who -- more at WHO
Date: before 12th century
1 archaic : which one of the two
2 archaic : whichever one of the two
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!
slap my salmon, baby
slap my salmon, baby
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DVD Burner
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I have pleanty more articles on this topic.
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=200 ... 0214-6557r
Exclusive: Saddam key in early CIA plot
By Richard Sale
UPI Intelligence Correspondent
Published 4/10/2003 7:30 PM
U.S. forces in Baghdad might now be searching high and low for Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, but in the past Saddam was seen by U.S. intelligence services as a bulwark of anti-communism and they used him as their instrument for more than 40 years, according to former U.S. intelligence diplomats and intelligence officials.
United Press International has interviewed almost a dozen former U.S. diplomats, British scholars and former U.S. intelligence officials to piece together the following account. The CIA declined to comment on the report.
While many have thought that Saddam first became involved with U.S. intelligence agencies at the start of the September 1980 Iran-Iraq war, his first contacts with U.S. officials date back to 1959, when he was part of a CIA-authorized six-man squad tasked with assassinating then Iraqi Prime Minister Gen. Abd al-Karim Qasim.
In July 1958, Qasim had overthrown the Iraqi monarchy in what one former U.S. diplomat, who asked not to be identified, described as "a horrible orgy of bloodshed."
According to current and former U.S. officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, Iraq was then regarded as a key buffer and strategic asset in the Cold War with the Soviet Union. For example, in the mid-1950s, Iraq was quick to join the anti-Soviet Baghdad Pact which was to defend the region and whose members included Turkey, Britain, Iran and Pakistan.
Little attention was paid to Qasim's bloody and conspiratorial regime until his sudden decision to withdraw from the pact in 1959, an act that "freaked everybody out" according to a former senior U.S. State Department official.
Washington watched in marked dismay as Qasim began to buy arms from the Soviet Union and put his own domestic communists into ministry positions of "real power," according to this official. The domestic instability of the country prompted CIA Director Allan Dulles to say publicly that Iraq was "the most dangerous spot in the world."
In the mid-1980s, Miles Copeland, a veteran CIA operative, told UPI the CIA had enjoyed "close ties" with Qasim's ruling Baath Party, just as it had close connections with the intelligence service of Egyptian leader Gamel Abd Nassar. In a recent public statement, Roger Morris, a former National Security Council staffer in the 1970s, confirmed this claim, saying that the CIA had chosen the authoritarian and anti-communist Baath Party "as its instrument."
According to another former senior State Department official, Saddam, while only in his early 20s, became a part of a U.S. plot to get rid of Qasim. According to this source, Saddam was installed in an apartment in Baghdad on al-Rashid Street directly opposite Qasim's office in Iraq's Ministry of Defense, to observe Qasim's movements.
Adel Darwish, Middle East expert and author of "Unholy Babylon," said the move was done "with full knowledge of the CIA," and that Saddam's CIA handler was an Iraqi dentist working for CIA and Egyptian intelligence. U.S. officials separately confirmed Darwish's account.
Darwish said that Saddam's paymaster was Capt. Abdel Maquid Farid, the assistant military attach� at the Egyptian Embassy who paid for the apartment from his own personal account. Three former senior U.S. officials have confirmed that this is accurate.
The assassination was set for Oct. 7, 1959, but it was completely botched. Accounts differ. One former CIA official said that the 22-year-old Saddam lost his nerve and began firing too soon, killing Qasim's driver and only wounding Qasim in the shoulder and arm. Darwish told UPI that one of the assassins had bullets that did not fit his gun and that another had a hand grenade that got stuck in the lining of his coat.
"It bordered on farce," a former senior U.S. intelligence official said. But Qasim, hiding on the floor of his car, escaped death, and Saddam, whose calf had been grazed by a fellow would-be assassin, escaped to Tikrit, thanks to CIA and Egyptian intelligence agents, several U.S. government officials said.
Saddam then crossed into Syria and was transferred by Egyptian intelligence agents to Beirut, according to Darwish and former senior CIA officials. While Saddam was in Beirut, the CIA paid for Saddam's apartment and put him through a brief training course, former CIA officials said. The agency then helped him get to Cairo, they said.
One former U.S. government official, who knew Saddam at the time, said that even then Saddam "was known as having no class. He was a thug -- a cutthroat."
In Cairo, Saddam was installed in an apartment in the upper class neighborhood of Dukki and spent his time playing dominos in the Indiana Caf�, watched over by CIA and Egyptian intelligence operatives, according to Darwish and former U.S. intelligence officials.
One former senior U.S. government official said: "In Cairo, I often went to Groppie Caf� at Emad Eldine Pasha Street, which was very posh, very upper class. Saddam would not have fit in there. The Indiana was your basic dive."
But during this time Saddam was making frequent visits to the American Embassy where CIA specialists such as Miles Copeland and CIA station chief Jim Eichelberger were in residence and knew Saddam, former U.S. intelligence officials said.
Saddam's U.S. handlers even pushed Saddam to get his Egyptian handlers to raise his monthly allowance, a gesture not appreciated by Egyptian officials since they knew of Saddam's American connection, according to Darwish. His assertion was confirmed by former U.S. diplomat in Egypt at the time.
In February 1963 Qasim was killed in a Baath Party coup. Morris claimed recently that the CIA was behind the coup, which was sanctioned by President John F. Kennedy, but a former very senior CIA official strongly denied this.
"We were absolutely stunned. We had guys running around asking what the hell had happened," this official said.
But the agency quickly moved into action. Noting that the Baath Party was hunting down Iraq's communist, the CIA provided the submachine gun-toting Iraqi National Guardsmen with lists of suspected communists who were then jailed, interrogated, and summarily gunned down, according to former U.S. intelligence officials with intimate knowledge of the executions.
Many suspected communists were killed outright, these sources said. Darwish told UPI that the mass killings, presided over by Saddam, took place at Qasr al-Nehayat, literally, the Palace of the End.
A former senior U.S. State Department official told UPI: "We were frankly glad to be rid of them. You ask that they get a fair trial? You have to get kidding. This was serious business."
A former senior CIA official said: "It was a bit like the mysterious killings of Iran's communists just after Ayatollah Khomeini came to power in 1979. All 4,000 of his communists suddenly got killed."
British scholar Con Coughlin, author of "Saddam: King of Terror," quotes Jim Critchfield, then a senior Middle East agency official, as saying the killing of Qasim and the communists was regarded "as a great victory." A former long-time covert U.S. intelligence operative and friend of Critchfield said: "Jim was an old Middle East hand. He wasn't sorry to see the communists go at all. Hey, we were playing for keeps."
Saddam, in the meantime, became head of al-Jihaz a-Khas, the secret intelligence apparatus of the Baath Party.
The CIA/Defense Intelligence Agency relation with Saddam intensified after the start of the Iran-Iraq war in September of 1980. During the war, the CIA regularly sent a team to Saddam to deliver battlefield intelligence obtained from Saudi AWACS surveillance aircraft to aid the effectiveness of Iraq's armed forces, according to a former DIA official, part of a U.S. interagency intelligence group.
This former official said that he personally had signed off on a document that shared U.S. satellite intelligence with both Iraq and Iran in an attempt to produce a military stalemate. "When I signed it, I thought I was losing my mind," the former official told UPI.
A former CIA official said that Saddam had assigned a top team of three senior officers from the Estikhbarat, Iraq's military intelligence, to meet with the Americans.
According to Darwish, the CIA and DIA provided military assistance to Saddam's ferocious February 1988 assault on Iranian positions in the al-Fao peninsula by blinding Iranian radars for three days.
The Saddam-U.S. intelligence alliance of convenience came to an end at 2 a.m. Aug. 2, 1990, when 100,000 Iraqi troops, backed by 300 tanks, invaded its neighbor, Kuwait. America's one-time ally had become its bitterest enemy.
Copyright © 2001-2004 United Press International
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=200 ... 0214-6557r
Exclusive: Saddam key in early CIA plot
By Richard Sale
UPI Intelligence Correspondent
Published 4/10/2003 7:30 PM
U.S. forces in Baghdad might now be searching high and low for Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, but in the past Saddam was seen by U.S. intelligence services as a bulwark of anti-communism and they used him as their instrument for more than 40 years, according to former U.S. intelligence diplomats and intelligence officials.
United Press International has interviewed almost a dozen former U.S. diplomats, British scholars and former U.S. intelligence officials to piece together the following account. The CIA declined to comment on the report.
While many have thought that Saddam first became involved with U.S. intelligence agencies at the start of the September 1980 Iran-Iraq war, his first contacts with U.S. officials date back to 1959, when he was part of a CIA-authorized six-man squad tasked with assassinating then Iraqi Prime Minister Gen. Abd al-Karim Qasim.
In July 1958, Qasim had overthrown the Iraqi monarchy in what one former U.S. diplomat, who asked not to be identified, described as "a horrible orgy of bloodshed."
According to current and former U.S. officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, Iraq was then regarded as a key buffer and strategic asset in the Cold War with the Soviet Union. For example, in the mid-1950s, Iraq was quick to join the anti-Soviet Baghdad Pact which was to defend the region and whose members included Turkey, Britain, Iran and Pakistan.
Little attention was paid to Qasim's bloody and conspiratorial regime until his sudden decision to withdraw from the pact in 1959, an act that "freaked everybody out" according to a former senior U.S. State Department official.
Washington watched in marked dismay as Qasim began to buy arms from the Soviet Union and put his own domestic communists into ministry positions of "real power," according to this official. The domestic instability of the country prompted CIA Director Allan Dulles to say publicly that Iraq was "the most dangerous spot in the world."
In the mid-1980s, Miles Copeland, a veteran CIA operative, told UPI the CIA had enjoyed "close ties" with Qasim's ruling Baath Party, just as it had close connections with the intelligence service of Egyptian leader Gamel Abd Nassar. In a recent public statement, Roger Morris, a former National Security Council staffer in the 1970s, confirmed this claim, saying that the CIA had chosen the authoritarian and anti-communist Baath Party "as its instrument."
According to another former senior State Department official, Saddam, while only in his early 20s, became a part of a U.S. plot to get rid of Qasim. According to this source, Saddam was installed in an apartment in Baghdad on al-Rashid Street directly opposite Qasim's office in Iraq's Ministry of Defense, to observe Qasim's movements.
Adel Darwish, Middle East expert and author of "Unholy Babylon," said the move was done "with full knowledge of the CIA," and that Saddam's CIA handler was an Iraqi dentist working for CIA and Egyptian intelligence. U.S. officials separately confirmed Darwish's account.
Darwish said that Saddam's paymaster was Capt. Abdel Maquid Farid, the assistant military attach� at the Egyptian Embassy who paid for the apartment from his own personal account. Three former senior U.S. officials have confirmed that this is accurate.
The assassination was set for Oct. 7, 1959, but it was completely botched. Accounts differ. One former CIA official said that the 22-year-old Saddam lost his nerve and began firing too soon, killing Qasim's driver and only wounding Qasim in the shoulder and arm. Darwish told UPI that one of the assassins had bullets that did not fit his gun and that another had a hand grenade that got stuck in the lining of his coat.
"It bordered on farce," a former senior U.S. intelligence official said. But Qasim, hiding on the floor of his car, escaped death, and Saddam, whose calf had been grazed by a fellow would-be assassin, escaped to Tikrit, thanks to CIA and Egyptian intelligence agents, several U.S. government officials said.
Saddam then crossed into Syria and was transferred by Egyptian intelligence agents to Beirut, according to Darwish and former senior CIA officials. While Saddam was in Beirut, the CIA paid for Saddam's apartment and put him through a brief training course, former CIA officials said. The agency then helped him get to Cairo, they said.
One former U.S. government official, who knew Saddam at the time, said that even then Saddam "was known as having no class. He was a thug -- a cutthroat."
In Cairo, Saddam was installed in an apartment in the upper class neighborhood of Dukki and spent his time playing dominos in the Indiana Caf�, watched over by CIA and Egyptian intelligence operatives, according to Darwish and former U.S. intelligence officials.
One former senior U.S. government official said: "In Cairo, I often went to Groppie Caf� at Emad Eldine Pasha Street, which was very posh, very upper class. Saddam would not have fit in there. The Indiana was your basic dive."
But during this time Saddam was making frequent visits to the American Embassy where CIA specialists such as Miles Copeland and CIA station chief Jim Eichelberger were in residence and knew Saddam, former U.S. intelligence officials said.
Saddam's U.S. handlers even pushed Saddam to get his Egyptian handlers to raise his monthly allowance, a gesture not appreciated by Egyptian officials since they knew of Saddam's American connection, according to Darwish. His assertion was confirmed by former U.S. diplomat in Egypt at the time.
In February 1963 Qasim was killed in a Baath Party coup. Morris claimed recently that the CIA was behind the coup, which was sanctioned by President John F. Kennedy, but a former very senior CIA official strongly denied this.
"We were absolutely stunned. We had guys running around asking what the hell had happened," this official said.
But the agency quickly moved into action. Noting that the Baath Party was hunting down Iraq's communist, the CIA provided the submachine gun-toting Iraqi National Guardsmen with lists of suspected communists who were then jailed, interrogated, and summarily gunned down, according to former U.S. intelligence officials with intimate knowledge of the executions.
Many suspected communists were killed outright, these sources said. Darwish told UPI that the mass killings, presided over by Saddam, took place at Qasr al-Nehayat, literally, the Palace of the End.
A former senior U.S. State Department official told UPI: "We were frankly glad to be rid of them. You ask that they get a fair trial? You have to get kidding. This was serious business."
A former senior CIA official said: "It was a bit like the mysterious killings of Iran's communists just after Ayatollah Khomeini came to power in 1979. All 4,000 of his communists suddenly got killed."
British scholar Con Coughlin, author of "Saddam: King of Terror," quotes Jim Critchfield, then a senior Middle East agency official, as saying the killing of Qasim and the communists was regarded "as a great victory." A former long-time covert U.S. intelligence operative and friend of Critchfield said: "Jim was an old Middle East hand. He wasn't sorry to see the communists go at all. Hey, we were playing for keeps."
Saddam, in the meantime, became head of al-Jihaz a-Khas, the secret intelligence apparatus of the Baath Party.
The CIA/Defense Intelligence Agency relation with Saddam intensified after the start of the Iran-Iraq war in September of 1980. During the war, the CIA regularly sent a team to Saddam to deliver battlefield intelligence obtained from Saudi AWACS surveillance aircraft to aid the effectiveness of Iraq's armed forces, according to a former DIA official, part of a U.S. interagency intelligence group.
This former official said that he personally had signed off on a document that shared U.S. satellite intelligence with both Iraq and Iran in an attempt to produce a military stalemate. "When I signed it, I thought I was losing my mind," the former official told UPI.
A former CIA official said that Saddam had assigned a top team of three senior officers from the Estikhbarat, Iraq's military intelligence, to meet with the Americans.
According to Darwish, the CIA and DIA provided military assistance to Saddam's ferocious February 1988 assault on Iranian positions in the al-Fao peninsula by blinding Iranian radars for three days.
The Saddam-U.S. intelligence alliance of convenience came to an end at 2 a.m. Aug. 2, 1990, when 100,000 Iraqi troops, backed by 300 tanks, invaded its neighbor, Kuwait. America's one-time ally had become its bitterest enemy.
Copyright © 2001-2004 United Press International
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DVD Burner
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Simply Joel
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tonytohono
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DVD Burner
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No, America is creating a bigger mess. But you'll never be able to figure that out because you are blinded by the lies that G.W. and wolfowitz and the boys are feeding you.Simply Joel wrote:and then he went rogue...
and now we are cleaning up the mess.
These are the facts.
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Simply Joel
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those are opinions.DVD Burner wrote:No, America is creating a bigger mess. But you'll never be able to figure that out because you are blinded by the lies that G.W. and wolfowitz and the boys are feeding you.Simply Joel wrote:and then he went rogue...
and now we are cleaning up the mess.
These are the facts.
Democrats... snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, daily!
slap my salmon, baby
slap my salmon, baby
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DVD Burner
- Posts: 11031
- Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:09 am
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What are opinions?
That Sadam was hooked up with the CIA and Rummy boy?
If that is what you are talking about I suggest you go and live in Disneyland because Rummy and the CIA have been with Sadam for decades. This is common knowledge. Live with your head in the sand if you like.
No opinion, it is a fact.
That Sadam was hooked up with the CIA and Rummy boy?
If that is what you are talking about I suggest you go and live in Disneyland because Rummy and the CIA have been with Sadam for decades. This is common knowledge. Live with your head in the sand if you like.
No opinion, it is a fact.
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CIA supporting a young mid-level pretty-much nobody in an attempt to eliminate communists in the 1950's was pretty much standard procedure at that time. I still fail to find the part in that article where we did anything to bring him to power. It was his uncle that was instrumental in that.
To say the CIA installed Saddam is stretching it, though.
So ... when the Baath party took control the first time, Saddam was in Egypt. He came to power when the president of Iraq resigned and Saddam's uncle orchestrated Saddam's installation as president. Saddam and that uncle go WAY back.In 1957, at age 20, Saddam joined the Baath Party. He started out as a low-ranking member of the Party responsible for leading his schoolmates in rioting. However, in 1959, he was chosen to be a member of an assassination squad. On October 7, 1959, Saddam and others attempted, but failed, to assassinate the prime minister. Wanted by the Iraqi government, Saddam was forced to flee. He lived in exile in Syria for three months and then moved to Egypt where he lived for three years.
In 1963, the Baath Party successfully overthrew the government and took power which allowed Saddam to return to Iraq from exile. While home, he married his cousin, Sajida Tulfah. However, the Baath Party was overthrown after only nine months in power and Saddam was arrested in 1964 after another coup attempt. He spent 18 months in prison, where he was tortured, before he escaped in July 1966.
During the next two years Saddam became an important leader within the Baath Party. In July 1968, when the Baath Party again gained power, Saddam was made vice-president.
Over the next decade, Saddam became increasingly powerful. On July 16, 1979, the president of Iraq resigned and Saddam officially took the position.Saddam Hussein ruled Iraq with a brutal hand. He used fear and terror to stay in power.
And here is an interesting piece of his past ...Despite Baath attempts to institutionalize its rule, real power remained in the hands of a narrowly based elite, united by close family and tribal ties. By 1977 the most powerful men in the Baath thus were all somehow related to the triumvirate of Saddam Hussein, Bakr, and General Adnan Khayr Allah Talfah, Saddam Hussein's brother-in-law who became minister of defense in 1978. All were members of the party, the RCC, and the cabinet, and all were members of the Talfah family of Tikrit, headed by Khayr Allah Talfah. Khayr Allah Talfah was Saddam Hussein's uncle and guardian, Adnan Khayr Allah's father, and Bakr's cousin. Saddam Hussein was married to Adnan Khayr Allah's sister and Adnan Khayr Allah was married to Bakr's daughter. Increasingly, the most sensitive military posts were going to the Tikritis.
Beginning in the mid-1970s, Bakr was beset by illness and by a series of family tragedies. He increasingly turned over power to Saddam Husayn. By 1977 the party bureaus, the intelligence mechanisms, and even ministers who, according to the Provisional Constitution, should have reported to Bakr, reported to Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein, meanwhile, was less inclined to share power, and he viewed the cabinet and the RCC as rubber stamps. On July 16, 1979, President Bakr resigned, and Saddam Hussein officially replaced him as president of the republic, secretary general of the Baath Party Regional Command, chairman of the RCC, and commander in chief of the armed forces. On July 17, 1979, he was promoted to the rank of Field Marshal.
Different spelling from a different source, but it is the same person. His UNCLE is the one that installed him as president and there is no doubt that Saddam might have used some of the skills he was taught by the CIA, he was installed by a family organization of Takritis. Then as Joel said ... went rouge. Saddam is very pragmatic. He would work with us as long as it suited his ends. Killing communists was just fine with him as long as they were competing with the Baath party for power. We were playing the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" game in the 50's and 60's. Communists were our enemy and we saw the Baath party as less of a global threat than the communists at the time.Saddam's mother soon remarried a man who was illiterate, immoral, and brutal. Saddam hated living with his stepfather and as soon as his uncle Khairullah Tulfah (his mother's brother) was released from prison in 1947, Saddam insisted that he go and live with his uncle.
To say the CIA installed Saddam is stretching it, though.
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Ok lets get this much straight.My exact quote was:
Along with Rummy boy's chemicals and arms he sold to Sadam. No it was'nt the U.S. to send the first shot, it was just the C.I.A. that helped put Sadam in power in the first place.
Please the least you can do if your gonna try to semi make your point dont go and tell anyone to do research if you're not gonna do it yourself.
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