Caption Contest 7

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:06 pm

i think we're starting to get into the whole realm that this becomes about - that there are issues of sexuality and sexual preference and gender identity, which overlap but aren't the same.

i still miss the Pineapple Princess..... Seattle c. 1990... RIP, i assume....

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:12 pm

Rob the Wop wrote:The reason I take a stance on this- is because it is unnecessary juggling of the English language to serve a personal end. Under the same logic of claiming more than two genders- I can claim to be female due to there being some estrogen in me. Gender refers to the traits of one of the two sexes, as seen from a cultural standpoint. When people stand up and demand that there are more than two genders (ie. more than two sexes), it simply means redefining an already established word. Why? Transgendered is an accepted word, why try to redefine an established one? It muddles the waters to no good end. Would suing the dictionary companies and forcing them to put a dozen different gender definitions help the transgender cause?

Dictionaries are conservative and at thier best, descriptive. Yes they can and do serve prescriptive functions. Just find an old dictionary and see how many vulgarities are glossed over. Yet, I wouldn't say that the F*ck thread, is for instance a purely political attempt to warp English out of the dictionaries control in order to serve one, or many, personal agendas.

Hermaphroditism-An anomalous condition in humans and animals in which both male and female reproductive organs and secondary sexual characteristics are present in the same individual

Some of the intersexed material I've read discusses that at one time "hermaphrodite" had a much broader definintion and that this particular one is a medical attempt to define them out of existence. And then all of a sudden we have the term "intersexed" because there was this squishy group of people who weren't "medical hermaphrodites" and weren't clearly "male" or "female." In this particular case the language is being pushed into a new shape, with or without the approval of prescriptive grammarians, because it cannot discribe the actual experience of actual people who wish to talk about their lives.

And you definitely won't see one pointing to a male dog saying, "No, it's really a bitch. Fido doesn't like girl dogs and prefers wearing girl dog scarf- so he's a hermamphrodite."

Quick call Big Gay Al!
I don't know how we establish the scarf wearing preferences of any dog (this could make the cloth mother monkey experiements seem tame) so but if we could and if dogs distiguish between boy and girl scarfs, Fido's a transvestite. A perfectly good word with a history of some decades use. As for "not liking girl dogs" (as friends? sex partners?) he's either a canine misantrope (note no new coinages, just streching an old word) or gay. But if you discover that Bambi is a velvet-horn (see Bagemihl) how do you define him? He's not your ordinary stag.

Being a hirstute gal and not shaving means you have some male gender traits- it does not make you a male by any means. But gender itself refers to either male or female by definition.

Tell that to all the people who "Sir" me. IN someways I am functioning as a man in minor social interactions.

PS. Not trying to start a fight, just point to dictionaries and saying "this is what it is".

I don't recognize the authority of dictionaries in this matter. LIke I said, they are inherently conservative (that's why it's news when certain words get into the OED) and typically mainstream.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:13 pm

GuinivereElise wrote:and, I don't think it would necessarily be a bad thing to go in and have a look at those definitions, and update them if necessary. Things change... and sometimes we DO need to redefine...

Well yes, but why not make new words instead? (ie, transgendered, transsexual, etc.) For all the psycological sexual variations, homo sapiens have two distinct sexes. Any other definition for the physical attributes is patently false. Gender and sex are defined by the two sexes. A male sex can have female gender or a female sex can have male gender, by definition- but there is no such thing as an 'other' sex or gender. You can be neither (castration), both (hermamphrodite), or a bit of either sex physically- and the same mentally. But without a third sex, you can only be shades of either of the two.

I'm not put off when a gay friend says, "I'm not a man." I just get the overwhelming urge to correct them. It just strikes me as entirely needless PC-ness.

Alpha · Post by **Alpha** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:25 pm

Fine, y'all can have my thread. Look for Caption Contest 8 coming to a forum near you! (Oh, and please continue the dialog.. I confess to be totally ignorant of trans-gender issues so I'm learning a lot)

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:34 am

ANTI-TRANSGENDER VIOLENCE
Remembering the slain
Antioch woman has created Web site to honor the victims

Rona Marech, Chronicle Staff Writer

Wednesday, November 17, 2004

It started with the killing of Rita Hester, a transgender woman who was stabbed to death in 1998 in Boston.

Gwen Smith thought Hester's killing seemed tragically similar to the recent slayings of two other transgender women -- Debra Forte and Chanelle Pickett. The earlier deaths had received a small amount of news coverage, but when she mentioned the parallels to friends online, Smith was stunned by the response. No one had heard of Forte or Pickett.

"From that night on, I begin to look for all the people we have forgotten, bearing in mind the George Santayana quote: 'Those who cannot remember the past are (condemned) to repeat it,' " Smith later wrote. "I want to make sure we remember." Soon after, Smith created Remembering Our Dead, a Web site that records the lives and deaths of victims of anti-transgender killings, and called for a Transgender Day of Remembrance to honor the people on the grim list she kept.

At the first remembrance event, in 1999, 25 people held candles in the rain outside San Francisco's Castro Theater. This year, on Saturday, the day of remembrance will be recognized in at least 166 cities and seven countries.

"It's a lot better than being a voice crying out in the wilderness," Smith said.

Smith, 37, is a self-described computer geek with a passion for Rambler cars and Disney cartoons. She lives in a nondescript cream-colored house in a nondescript Antioch development with her wife of 12 years, Bonnie Smith.

Six months before they were supposed to marry, Smith told her then- fiancee, whom she had met in a college graphic design class, that she had struggled with her gender identity all her life. She made the disclosure at a restaurant near a bus route "so she could run screaming to the bus if she needed to," Smith said.

But Bonnie didn't run. The pair married as planned at the Renaissance Faire -- in full-on Renaissance garb. A couple of years later, Smith began taking hormones and transitioning from man to woman.

In her bedroom -- and only in her bedroom -- Smith keeps a picture of their wedding day. She was a he and had dark hair and a full beard and was dressed like a Shakespearean prince. That was the old Gwen. (She does not reveal her old name.)

The new Gwen has long, dirty blond hair and chipped pink polish on her nails. She likes thick make-up and lots of dark eyeliner. She's a Web designer who writes a column about transgender issues that is published in a number of gay papers. And she has something of an obsession for her project -- her death tally -- as depressing as it can be.

Smith devotes hours upon hours to research: perusing newspaper clips, searching archives and data bases, interviewing police officers and reporters and talking to family members. One by one, the names -- and sometimes a story and a photo -- get added to her site in a plain white-on-black font.

Pickett: strangled in Massachusetts in 1995. Christian Paige: beaten, strangled, stabbed and burned in Chicago in 1996. Vianna Faye Williams: died of multiple stab wounds to back, neck and chest in New Jersey in 1997. Harvey Aberles. Jae Stevens. Cameron "Tina" Tanner. Maria "La Conchita" Palencia.

The Web site now lists 322 names, all people Smith believes were killed because of their nonconformist gender expression -- whether or not they actually identified as transgender. Three times, Smith has had to type in the name of someone she had met. By her estimate, 19 people were slain in the last year in cases of anti-transgender violence; nine of those victims were in the United States, including three in California.

She includes fatalities that have the tell-tall signs of "overkill," even if authorities don't officially label them hate crimes.

"A lot of murders are not simple gunshot wounds," Smith said. "Instead, you'll see a case like Gwen (Araujo) where she was strangled and beaten over time. ... It gets to a point where it's not just about killing a person, it's about obliterating them, erasing them if you could."

Araujo is the transgender teenager from Newark who was slain in 2002. The trial of three men accused of killing her ended in a mistrial in June.

"I think it's very hard for non-transgender people to understand the level of potential day-to-day violence most transgender people face," said Shawna Virago, director of domestic violence services at Community United Against Violence. "We owe it to our community not to forget those of us who have been slain."

This Saturday, Transgender Day of Remembrance will be recognized in cities from Lincoln, Neb., to Cheyenne, Wyo., and Auburn, Ala. Numerous high schools and colleges -- including UCSF, City College of San Francisco and George Washington High School -- will organize their own events, leading vigils, holding panel discussions and writing names of victims on posters, T- shirts or symbolic grave stones.

"It's caught on basically because people have had enough," said Ethan St. Pierre, whose transgender aunt, Debra Forte, was stabbed to death in Massachusetts in 1995. St. Pierre is also transgender, but his aunt died before he was able to speak to her about his identity. "I think more and more people are recognizing our right to exist as human beings," he said.
Remembrance events

Transgender Day of Remembrance events will be held all week in the Bay Area. For more information, go to www.rememberingourdead.org/day/

E-mail Rona Marech at [email protected].

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:39 am

Rob the Wop wrote:
GuinivereElise wrote:and, I don't think it would necessarily be a bad thing to go in and have a look at those definitions, and update them if necessary. Things change... and sometimes we DO need to redefine...
Well yes, but why not make new words instead? (ie, transgendered, transsexual, etc.) For all the psycological sexual variations, homo sapiens have two distinct sexes. Any other definition for the physical attributes is patently false. Gender and sex are defined by the two sexes. A male sex can have female gender or a female sex can have male gender, by definition- but there is no such thing as an 'other' sex or gender. You can be neither (castration), both (hermamphrodite), or a bit of either sex physically- and the same mentally. But without a third sex, you can only be shades of either of the two.

I'm not put off when a gay friend says, "I'm not a man." I just get the overwhelming urge to correct them. It just strikes me as entirely needless PC-ness.

here here

calicowboy925 · Post by **calicowboy925** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:02 pm

Araujo is the transgender teenager from Newark who was slain in 2002. The trial of three men accused of killing her ended in a mistrial in June.

"I think it's very hard for non-transgender people to understand the level of potential day-to-day violence most transgender people face," said Shawna Virago

I think transgender people should tell their sex partners that they are anatomically NOT what they appear, as in the case of Gwen Araujo, who had sex with these men and did not tell them she was actually a man. I am not saying this is cause for killing somebody, but it does increase the "level of potential day-to-day violence most transgender people face".

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:22 pm

calicowboy925 wrote: I think transgender people should tell their sex partners that they are anatomically NOT what they appear, as in the case of Gwen Araujo, who had sex with these men and did not tell them she was actually a man. I am not saying this is cause for killing somebody, but it does increase the "level of potential day-to-day violence most transgender people face".

I would just like all of us to remember the stupid stuff we did with our identities and our sexualities when we were teenagers. Not that I'm saying that Gwen was taking good care of herself, but that expecting teenagers to be sensible is really streaching it.

calicowboy925 · Post by **calicowboy925** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:45 pm

I think tricking young men into homosexual acts and NOT expecting some type of retaliation is less than sensible...it's moronic.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:47 pm

calicowboy925 wrote:I think tricking young men into homosexual acts and NOT expecting some type of retaliation is less than sensible...it's moronic.

like your posts?

calicowboy925 · Post by **calicowboy925** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:20 pm

Ya don't agree Joel??? Hmmm..maybe you just have a soft spot for that type of thing. You have to admit, when a shim tricks a young guy, they must know some risk is involved, of being found out. Now, like I said, killing somebody is extreme, but you know you have a beating coming. These guys are in the East bay, not the Castro...and Union City ain't the best hood. This guy paid with a frying pan to the head and ended up taking a dirt nap. Again, extreme...but you gotta take personal responsibility. Be who you are, don't lie....geeze, he could have gone 30 mins west and found a crowd of willing participants.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:25 pm

calicowboy925 wrote:Ya don't agree Joel??? Hmmm..maybe you just have a soft spot for that type of thing. You have to admit, when a shim tricks a young guy, they must know some risk is involved, of being found out. Now, like I said, killing somebody is extreme, but you know you have a beating coming. These guys are in the East bay, not the Castro...and Union City ain't the best hood. This guy paid with a frying pan to the head and ended up taking a dirt nap. Again, extreme...but you gotta take personal responsibility. Be who you are, don't lie....geeze, he could have gone 30 mins west and found a crowd of willing participants.

no, i don't even support a beating of anyone, for any reason... 'cause if i did, there would be a 17 year old with two broken elbows in my house.
(so he would really be pissed he couldn't masturbate)

don't consider yourself to be like me...

you are speaking of hate crimes, of which i do not condone.

besides disliking someone so much that you would kill them requires far too much emotional committment, of which i don't have nor want.

me, soft? no, tolerant... until now...

so piss off mate.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:51 pm

Simply Joel wrote:
calicowboy925 wrote:Ya don't agree Joel??? Hmmm..maybe you just have a soft spot for that type of thing. You have to admit, when a shim tricks a young guy, they must know some risk is involved, of being found out. Now, like I said, killing somebody is extreme, but you know you have a beating coming. These guys are in the East bay, not the Castro...and Union City ain't the best hood. This guy paid with a frying pan to the head and ended up taking a dirt nap. Again, extreme...but you gotta take personal responsibility. Be who you are, don't lie....geeze, he could have gone 30 mins west and found a crowd of willing participants.
no, i don't even support a beating of anyone, for any reason... 'cause if i did, there would be a 17 year old with two broken elbows in my house.
(so he would really be pissed he couldn't masturbate)

don't consider yourself to be like me...

you are speaking of hate crimes, of which i do not condone.

besides disliking someone so much that you would kill them requires far too much emotional committment, of which i don't have nor want.

me, soft? no, tolerant... until now...

so piss off mate.

ahhh finally a post I can admire. Big smooch to you Joel.....wannnafuck?

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:13 pm

cowboyangel wrote:
Simply Joel wrote:
calicowboy925 wrote:Ya don't agree Joel??? Hmmm..maybe you just have a soft spot for that type of thing. You have to admit, when a shim tricks a young guy, they must know some risk is involved, of being found out. Now, like I said, killing somebody is extreme, but you know you have a beating coming. These guys are in the East bay, not the Castro...and Union City ain't the best hood. This guy paid with a frying pan to the head and ended up taking a dirt nap. Again, extreme...but you gotta take personal responsibility. Be who you are, don't lie....geeze, he could have gone 30 mins west and found a crowd of willing participants.
no, i don't even support a beating of anyone, for any reason... 'cause if i did, there would be a 17 year old with two broken elbows in my house.
(so he would really be pissed he couldn't masturbate)

don't consider yourself to be like me...

you are speaking of hate crimes, of which i do not condone.

besides disliking someone so much that you would kill them requires far too much emotional committment, of which i don't have nor want.

me, soft? no, tolerant... until now...

so piss off mate.
ahhh finally a post I can admire. Big smooch to you Joel.....wannnafuck?

sheesh

calicowboy925 · Post by **calicowboy925** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:39 pm

Obvie you didnt read what I had wrote...I am not condoning this, I am merely saying if someone tricks young men into these things they must know there will be consequenses. No??? and of course, killing anyone is not even in the realm of rational reactions. Go piss on yourself....

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:24 pm

calicowboy925 wrote:Obvie you didnt read what I had wrote...I am not condoning this, I am merely saying if someone tricks young men into these things they must know there will be consequenses. No??? and of course, killing anyone is not even in the realm of rational reactions. Go piss on yourself....

Where you been, Dick? The Government of the People does this all the time! Just because they got the guns.....

calicowboy925 · Post by **calicowboy925** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:24 am

Hey Sam, go fuck yourself...just like the pussy you are talking shit while hiding behind your screen. Always some shit to say, here's a clue, go outside, get a life...I take it from the hours you spend here you have no women in your life, what ya so ugly your mom (the whore) had to tie a porkchop around your neck to get the dog to play with you? You say things here you wouldn't have the guts to say in a bar....I'd dare you, but you wouldn't cuz' this cowboy would whip your ass.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:27 am

calicowboy925 wrote:Hey Sam, go fuck yourself...just like the pussy you are talking shit while hiding behind your screen. Always some shit to say, here's a clue, go outside, get a life...I take it from the hours you spend here you have no women in your life, what ya so ugly your mom (the whore) had to tie a porkchop around your neck to get the dog to play with you? You say things here you wouldn't have the guts to say in a bar....I'd dare you, but you wouldn't cuz' this cowboy would whip your ass.

Uhm, you haven't met Sam.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:36 am

calicowboy925 wrote:Hey Sam, go fuck yourself...just like the pussy you are talking shit while hiding behind your screen. Always some shit to say, here's a clue, go outside, get a life...I take it from the hours you spend here you have no women in your life, what ya so ugly your mom (the whore) had to tie a porkchop around your neck to get the dog to play with you? You say things here you wouldn't have the guts to say in a bar....I'd dare you, but you wouldn't cuz' this cowboy would whip your ass.

Spankings!

put me down for one.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:41 am

Dang, what a ocean of vitriol has been unleashed (to mix a metaphor.)

What I would like to say is that if you aren't old enough to take it like a man when your trick turns out to be someone other than you expected then you should zip your pants, button your jeans and otherwise keep your precious wee-wee hidden from view, because you aren't old enough to be having sex (with other people.)

calicowboy925 · Post by **calicowboy925** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:56 am

Yeah, Crypto..the "ocean of vitrol" is not my first choice, and regretable, but Sam consistantly reacts to my posts with his name calling..I have tried more than once to be diplomatic, but he reverts back to the name calling.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:12 am

calicowboy925 wrote:Yeah, Crypto..the "ocean of vitrol" is not my first choice, and regretable, but Sam consistantly reacts to my posts with his name calling..I have tried more than once to be diplomatic, but he reverts back to the name calling.

do i still get spanked?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:16 am

Simply Joel wrote:
calicowboy925 wrote:Yeah, Crypto..the "ocean of vitrol" is not my first choice, and regretable, but Sam consistantly reacts to my posts with his name calling..I have tried more than once to be diplomatic, but he reverts back to the name calling.
do i still get spanked?

I'm willing to stand in if you need one, Joel.

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:18 am

Alpha wrote:It's a new week and I'm ready to put my political caption contest behind us. (Whether or not to put all politics behind, is another matter....)

So without further ado:

"Boy becomes Man, an Epiphany"

Silver 2 · Post by **Silver 2** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:23 am

You say things here you wouldn't have the guts to say in a bar....I'd dare you, but you wouldn't cuz' this cowboy would whip your ass.

Rick, is that you? You didn't come and visit me at Burning Man and I waited around all day Monday; didn't even drink much so that my reaction times would stay up.

Other people found me so for a cowboy like you it should have been real easy.

If you are not Rick, it seems that you have been taking some lessons from him.

calicowboy925 · Post by **calicowboy925** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:50 am

No, Silver, I am not Rick...and NO, I do not like resorting to this level...my reaction was entirely unnecessary, I admit that..I guess I am bothered by Sam's "Dick" comment, would his point not be just as strong, maybe even more, if he had omitted the insult? Yeah, my response doesn't help, but Sam has done this before.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:02 am

calicowboy925 wrote:No, Silver, I am not Rick...and NO, I do not like resorting to this level...my reaction was entirely unnecessary, I admit that..I guess I am bothered by Sam's "Dick" comment, would his point not be just as strong, maybe even more, if he had omitted the insult? Yeah, my response doesn't help, but Sam has done this before.

you guys are going to kiss and make up, and i won't get spanked.

damn damn damn

GuinivereElise · Post by **GuinivereElise** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:11 am

Simply Joel wrote:
calicowboy925 wrote:No, Silver, I am not Rick...and NO, I do not like resorting to this level...my reaction was entirely unnecessary, I admit that..I guess I am bothered by Sam's "Dick" comment, would his point not be just as strong, maybe even more, if he had omitted the insult? Yeah, my response doesn't help, but Sam has done this before.
you guys are going to kiss and make up, and i won't get spanked.

damn damn damn

Oh, I'll take care of your spankings, Joel...

come and get 'em..

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:20 am

calicowboy925 wrote:Araujo is the transgender teenager from Newark who was slain in 2002. The trial of three men accused of killing her ended in a mistrial in June.

"I think it's very hard for non-transgender people to understand the level of potential day-to-day violence most transgender people face," said Shawna Virago

I think transgender people should tell their sex partners that they are anatomically NOT what they appear, as in the case of Gwen Araujo, who had sex with these men and did not tell them she was actually a man. I am not saying this is cause for killing somebody, but it does increase the "level of potential day-to-day violence most transgender people face".

this is remarkably similar to the people who hear a woman was raped and immediately want to know what she was wearing.

I am by no means saying that being open isn't important with partners... but i'd rather someone hid that sort of info than, say, having an STD...

god, you are paranoid and easily freaked out, cali. jeeeee-BUZZ!

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:20 am

GuinivereElise wrote:
Simply Joel wrote:
calicowboy925 wrote:No, Silver, I am not Rick...and NO, I do not like resorting to this level...my reaction was entirely unnecessary, I admit that..I guess I am bothered by Sam's "Dick" comment, would his point not be just as strong, maybe even more, if he had omitted the insult? Yeah, my response doesn't help, but Sam has done this before.
you guys are going to kiss and make up, and i won't get spanked.

damn damn damn
Oh, I'll take care of your spankings, Joel...

come and get 'em..

oh yeah!

Caption Contest 7

Re: Caption Contest 7