Large Sound Camp DJ Line-ups.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:15 am

well, having worked for and being a lead on one of the largest sound camps in the history of sound camps for 8 fucking years you would think i would know what the hell i was talking about…

just SAYIN'...

Jovankat · Post by **Jovankat** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:21 am

Roberto Dobbisano wrote: but there also a certain thing called KNOWING before one speaks. please try that, unless you are asking a question.

How do you think people get to a point of KNOWING stuff if not through having discussions

Jovankat wrote: Do we know for sure they're being paid though?

Apparently we do, ok, that's why I posted to ask. It's almost like that's how people learn things in a conversational setting! Crazy!

Jovankat wrote:does it matter that they're professional DJs in the real world? I understand it's not the crux of your point but it kind of sounds like just the idea of people who make their living DJing big parties DJing at Burning Man isn't something that sits well with you and I'm not sure I understand why.

Ok only half of that is technically a question but I was definitely inviting further explanation/discussion

Jovankat wrote: I don't really see how that's different to an artist who lives off selling sculptures most of the year coming and building one at burning man. In both cases they're getting to do the thing they love outside of the commercial for profit system and they get a bunch of exposure to potential real world consumers of their artistic products.

Ok not technically a question so I'll rephrase; how is it different to an artist who lives off selling sculptures most of the year coming and building one at burning man?

Jovankat wrote:Do we really want restrictions on what famous people can do at Burning Man because they're famous and that somehow completely colours their actions? Like would it be more ok for a random rich dude who only has a day to spare to helicopter in and make grilled cheese sandwiches than when Mark Zuckerberg did it because people know his name?

Two questions! Right after each other!

If you don't like my posts feel free to plonk me but replying to me just to put me down and berate me from not knowing all the things you do is just shitty and mean for no good reason.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:23 am

run along and go play in some other thread.

please.

i will not play parlor games with you, I'm sorry.

perhaps i will plonk you.

good day….now back to our regular programming.

H.G.Crosby · Post by **H.G.Crosby** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:25 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:here is the question.

should Large Sound Camps ADVERTISE their "massive" line-ups?

especially this far out from the event?

or even at all?

WHAT SAY YOU???

this is what we were discussing, in case any of you forgot.

Jovankat · Post by **Jovankat** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:35 am

Yes and that followed to Bless, Eric and Lonesomebri relating DJ sets to theme camp events. All I'm asking is how is knowing when a DJ is playing is any different to knowing when a three legged relay race is happening? Either it isn't different and this should probably be a bigger conversation about the whole idea of scheduled anything on playa not just DJ sets or it is different and DJ sets have therefore been exalted to a class above theme camp events which would give a hell of a lot more weight to the idea that this is in fact a music festival.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:47 am

please, do not escalate this.

your second year megalomania is showing. don't worry, it's quite common.

also, i don't do run on sentences that well…send me a private message with any questions you may have and i will reply.

This Thread is to discuss Corporate Interests advertising their Assets in a place where that is not allowed.

and being a DJ is NOT ART, it's a fucking party…..period…..so don't get me involved in the same old stupid ass argument that occurs EVERY year….music is ART….Superstar DJ's twiddling knobs is masturbation for the Big Dicks on the Playa.

i don't think i can be any more brutally honest.

some seeing eye · Post by **some seeing eye** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:55 am

This is the continuation of many large sound camp discussions.
There is a theory that if the camps announced the lineup, it would make the event a music festival in the eyes of Nevada law, subject to a whole series of different taxes and regulation.
There has also been discussion of all the MOOP created by large sound camps and the OP tried one year to have the large sound camp dancers pick it up ongoing. Not sure how that worked.
There have been many observations of law enforcement activities around large sound camps, and other poor behaviors that are seen in nightclubs, and after, like sexual assault.
There has also been discussion that there are so many other BM experiences to participate, but some spend all their time at the dance camps spectating.
And there have been discussions, like where is my sound camp art grant?

Sure someone could dig up those threads.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:57 am

you would think that someone would do their research first before spouting off, but alas, they did not...

JovanKat if you wish to know the history of Rave Camps at BM i could tell you….i have 18 years of stories….i can not relay them here, i do not have the time, and it would be book length.

which gives me an idea for a tawdry HBO mini series, but i digress.

anyway….the who what where guide is not the same as ADVERTISING lineups and the multiple reasons as to why this is a BAD thing can be documented and perhaps i will make a "primer" for those who wish to be better informed.

as you can see, i get a bit prickly when people tell me 2+2=5 when i know damn well it doesn't.

here is the most damning piece of evidence. sorry to be redundant, but notice the words "Timur Sardarov & Paul Oakenfold Present."

use your google….do some reading…

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:51 am

Jovankat · Post by **Jovankat** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:15 am

SImon I PMed you like you suggested but you don't seem to have read it.

Simon are you saying the point of White Ocean being on the playa last year was to develop a fan base that they would then come to gigs with cover charges?

If that was their plan it seems strange that there has been little to no activity on their facebook page since that event you just posted.

If they exist for promotional reasons they should really be making more of an effort to like, promote.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:37 am

*sigh*

i can't wait for super learning to be available to the mainstream, then i could just download it for you and you could upload the "understanding" that is needed to fully broach this subject.

i will try my best to clarify any and all points concerning these and other dead horses if you really wish me to dissect them.

this is FRESH HORSE HEAD, left in a bed…..am i beating it, yes i am…WHY?

because it's important to me to say my peace about the possible consequences of unchecked rampant "EDM" and it's negative aspects and how they affect the Burning Man Project, not "music festival"…

one last note as far as i am concerned.

i do not work for the org, i do not work for root society, i am a freelancer, i work for the dust, it pays me each year when i breathe it in.

zaii · Post by **zaii** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:12 am

Can someone please tell me what Burningman isn't? I more self righteous people in my life

some seeing eye · Post by **some seeing eye** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:27 am

My theory is that the named dance camps of the past had little business outside the Playa. They might throw for profit parties in SF to cover their on-playa costs, like many theme camps do.

But I think we will see businessmen building their brand on-playa, then using that brand name for large for profit festivals off-playa. Say the "Grey Sea Festival" or the "Grey Sea Stage" at whatever festival. I think we also discussed a while back DJ's doing the same.

I think they can work around the edges of the Burning Man commercial use issues. If not it would be their big lawyers vs the Burning Man big lawyers.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:34 am

zaii wrote:Can someone please tell me what Burningman isn't? I more self righteous people in my life

well, the picture is from the official burning man web site so why don't you ask them the same question?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:19 am

I can't follow this either. It seems to be about generalities rather than specfices. And I'm not sure what we are supposed to glean from a screenshot of a google search. This guy is a venture capitalist? This guy has a father? The truncated opening statements don't give me much to go on, and I can't press the link if I think something's interesting.

And this is eplaya. Thread drift is what we do.

Of course, I'm suffering from Last Year Sucked and I'm Never Going Back Meglomania.

Roberto Dobbisano · Post by **Roberto Dobbisano** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:32 am

I'm Never Going Back Melancholia

i've had this before, after extensive chemo-therapy, i beat it.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:47 am

i would just like to be clear.

im not against big sound, and their camps.

far from it....i say Bring it...bring it Big, bring it Loud....bring your best shit, bring the Big talent....bring it.

just dont tell the world beforehand.....is that too much to ask?

the time honored TRADITIONS of no branding and decommodification be adhered to for JUST THIS ONE WEEK...

i am concerned about BALANCE i am only a canary, singing that i smell gas.

i am not a hater ( as many of the nasty emails i have received today say ) and quite frankly, the moment anyone uses "hater" in a discussion it instantly tells me not to even pay them any mind, but i do not hate the large sound camps or want them to go away...

i want them to do their thing, give their gift, leave no trace etc...

without strings attached, or some Monster Beverage Truck dishing out free samples.....(2005?)

and we know you are going to have superstar DJ's....why not surprise us, or just Post the line up on a fucking stick like years gone by and if people REALLY want to know who is going to play at your venue they will COME OVER and check out your camp during the day and copy down the set times in sharpie marker on their belly button, the way we used to do it.

i dont think we need an app for that, honestly...

rant over....talk amongst yourselves...

[media]

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:33 pm

Roberto Dobbisano wrote:
I'm Never Going Back Melancholia

i've had this before, after extensive chemo-therapy, i beat it.

It's not the 18th century.

It's called depression.

I've had depression, I've lived with depression, and if I'm having any depression about this it's at what I lost by putting all that energy into the burn and into people who don't know the basics of friendship, instead of into my own life and my own art here in the "default" world.

Roberto Dobbisano · Post by **Roberto Dobbisano** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:40 pm

well, i wish there was a way to change how you feel.

but i think you already knew that.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{CRYPTO}}}}}}}}}}}}}}.....you will always be my friend whether you go to the burn or not...there is a connection of minds, and it started here.

the burn is only one week, anyway...

eplaya is for life...

H.G.Crosby · Post by **H.G.Crosby** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:43 pm

yeah, you're stuck with us.

who else will understand my beef on weck references?

nobody.

VultureChow · Post by **VultureChow** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:50 pm

Excuse me. Beef on Weck is Buffalonian.

I was going to suggest salt potatoes for Rochester, but apparently they're native to Syracuse.

What else ya got?

remi · Post by **remi** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:55 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:....... I find that the majority of people I talk to who have never been to the Burn for some reason believe it is a music rave. How did this happen? Who is responsible? I worry that the event then attracts and ends up with people coming to attend a music festival and watch their favorite DJs tilt their heads ever so slightly while placing a couple fingers to the lower tilted temple....then don't drink enough water and end up vomiting on themselves mid-playa before passing out on whatever designer pills they took, interfering with my evening plans while I stop and administer water. I want the event to attract the kind of people who bring it, "it" being shit I don't even know about yet. Is it non-inclusive to desire participants who are willing to add to the enjoyment of the event and disfavor others who are only there to take? Sure, that's judgmental and whatever, but I'm not making rules, I'm trying to make reality. Burning Man is not a Music Festival, it is not a rave, though a great many people would argue otherwise. I don't concede. Engaging in that debate is healthy.

That's why the regionals are so fuckin' awesome.. no misconception as to what the event is, and you're left with a pretty epic group of people sharing art and stories and food and booze... it's pretty sexy.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:02 pm

VultureChow wrote:Excuse me. Beef on Weck is Buffalonian.

I was going to suggest salt potatoes for Rochester, but apparently they're native to Syracuse.

What else ya got?

a game of no holds barred euchre at the meet n greet.....cross-boarding encouraged.

while eating a garbage plate.

remi · Post by **remi** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:06 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:here is the question.

should Large Sound Camps ADVERTISE their "massive" line-ups?

especially this far out from the event?

or even at all?

WHAT SAY YOU???

I personally like the fact that the advertise their lineups.. just like any camp would advertises a meal, or party they're having.

I don't like that they advertise it so early because we all know the DJ schedules aren't really set in stone, and often change right up to the last week coming up to the event. I personally think the schedules should just be posted at the stages, or in one of the books you are given when entering BM.

H.G.Crosby · Post by **H.G.Crosby** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:10 pm

a game of no holds barred euchre at the meet n greet.....cross-boarding encouraged.

while eating a garbage plate.

google translation: a regional card game similar to bridge where cheating and lying are encouraged and gambling and drinking are a given while dining on two open faced cheeseburgers, two white hots, slathered in a grease / meat sauce and covered in ketchup and mustard and mayonaise on top of a heaping helping of mac salad and fries....

mmmmmmmm, mmmm....

I personally think the schedules should just be posted at the stages, or in one of the books you are given when entering BM.

i agree wholeheartedly....at the venues or in one of kates handy UNOFFICIAL guides to the Thumpy Universe....i got no problem with these, as clearly stated.

now where were we...oh yeah, haute cuisine...

lucky420 · Post by **lucky420** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:39 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:i would just like to be clear.

im not against big sound, and their camps.

far from it....i say Bring it...bring it Big, bring it Loud....bring your best shit, bring the Big talent....bring it.

just dont tell the world beforehand.....is that too much to ask?

the time honored TRADITIONS of no branding and decommodification be adhered to for JUST THIS ONE WEEK...

i am concerned about BALANCE i am only a canary, singing that i smell gas.

i am not a hater ( as many of the nasty emails i have received today say ) and quite frankly, the moment anyone uses "hater" in a discussion it instantly tells me not to even pay them any mind, but i do not hate the large sound camps or want them to go away...

i want them to do their thing, give their gift, leave no trace etc...

without strings attached, or some Monster Beverage Truck dishing out free samples.....(2005?)

and we know you are going to have superstar DJ's....why not surprise us, or just Post the line up on a fucking stick like years gone by and if people REALLY want to know who is going to play at your venue they will COME OVER and check out your camp during the day and copy down the set times in sharpie marker on their belly button, the way we used to do it.

i dont think we need an app for that, honestly...

rant over....talk amongst yourselves...

[media]

I understand this perfectly and agree wholeheartedly. Have we lost the art and joy of surprise?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:45 pm

I blame the parents of the millenials. They obviously didn't hide the xmas presents well enough.

Lonesomebri · Post by **Lonesomebri** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:54 pm

Yeah, I hate DJs, deal with it. Be inclusive, or not. And how do we know Zucky baby handed out grilled cheese....oh..... he has the best pr money can buy. What a joke. And it works, as we can see. This is how the business world works. Disney is the happiest place on earth because they told me so. And supporting Disney is inclusive, just like enjoying a nice sunset, how could I be for one and not the other? If you can't see a difference between the kind of people who get up early in the morning at the Burn to feed me pancakes, and DJs who are flown in, idolized, capitalize!!!! on their gift to the community, and play ipods connected to the largest speakers I have ever seen (though the DJ did not set up those speakers, or stage)...if you can't see a difference between that....
You should be on the US Supreme Court, you'd fit right in. The listings are now advertising and marketing for a business, not some innocent exchange of information.

I'm not into naked twister, but I don't care about them setting up. It isn't a money scam riding in under the lame cover of inclusion. I don't mind events listed in advance. The only thing keeping this event from becoming another rave festival is people not allowing it to become another rave festival. Is LNT more important to the BM concept than sound camps? Not that this is competition, but choices are being made. I bet by next year the majority of attendees will know the line-ups at the camps they are going to, more than they know what LNT means.

And no matter what I say or do, the DJs and soundcamps will be there. Don't worry too much about that.

Post by **AntiM** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:10 pm

Damn, now I want a plate of Loco Moco.

I have never cared about the sound camps, but even I feel like the element of surprise and discovery on the playa is being slaughtered.

Post by **trilobyte** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:26 pm

Just catching up after a weekend away. Replying to the first post, and not (yet) having gotten the chance to read others' replies, I'll say that if you don't like it when camps talk up their lineups or schedules or whatever, vote with your feet and don't go there.

Simon, it's also worth pointing out your own slice of responsibility in it all. You spent years helping to build and big big crazy camps who participated heavily in the performance lineup arms race.... actions have consequences. Not to say it's solely your fault, but you helped create your own reality.

All that said, it's Burning Man. If you don't like what somebody's doing, just keep on moving. In a short time you'll be at the next camp, on to better things as they say. Black Rock City is a great big place, and part of the awesomeness and weirdness of it all is the diversity. For every camp you think is great, there will be several you don't connect with.

Speaking personally, I'm less interested in the names on the bill than the party and the space and the atmosphere they're creating. For years I've been shunning the big lineup spammers and the rockstar librarian list and still having a great burn. If there's a particular artist or performer who I'm trying to catch, I'm more likely to ask/get that info directly from her or him. I'm still lousy at getting to anything scheduled, which is why I'm more interested in just knowing what they're going for on the night. Be it a white party or ho down or fashion show or electro-swing steampunk nonsense... find the stuff that excites you and ignore what doesn't.

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