vehicle passes, my two cents.

[Metalvixen]

Just putting in my two cents saying that the vehicle pass system makes getting tickets a much more stressful process than it should be. I wasn't financially able to register for actual sale of tickets at the time, but now, I'm just fine. I'm 95% confident that I will find a ticket. Thats less worrysome. There's still 5% of worry, but it isn't a big deal compared to the added stress of finding a vehicle pass. Because what happens then, if I find a ticket right before the event, but get stuck without a vehicle pass. Now I'm out $400. Not cool. My schedule is too tight to plan ride shares, and the burner express sounds like nonsense. As well as the continued discussion of what to do about leaving your care in Gerlach or Reno to take the express? Yeah, less cars to the desert... but not necessarily less cars altogether. I'm okay with paying a surcharge on my vehicle, but I don't agree with the vehicle pass concept.

And, yes, I've seen plenty of reassurance that I still may get one on the OMG sale, blah blah blah. Still worried, okay? I like being in charge of my own destiny and already have enough to worry about while i work full time and go to school full time. Burning man is already something that requires tremendous planning and foresight.. I'd like having a ticket being the major factor determining whether I get to go or not.

</end rant>

[FIGJAM]

Well, the price was right for that info!

[theCryptofishist]

Think of how much less in charge of your destiny you'd feel if BLM were to deny a permit because of traffic issues. In truth, our destinies are always fragile boats bobbing on huge oceans filled with unseen reefs. Control is an illusion.

[sadie]

In truth, our destinies are always fragile boats bobbing on huge oceans filled with unseen reefs. Control is an illusion.

Well said, Fishy.

[trance728]

Funny, I just came on to this forum today to figure out if there was anything I could do if I find a ticket but can't find a vehicle pass to go with it. I sleep in my truck and I don't have any other way out there. I wish it was just about money and they would let you enter if you paid $40 at the gate. I understand the idea of lessening the vehicles, but they should have just encouraged carpooling by selling the vehicle passes but having enough for anyone who needs them. That would also prevent these crappy people scalping vehicle passes for insane amounts. Come on guys, just make them available!!!

<rant>

[gaminwench]

Vehicle passes will be available in the OMG sale.

[dragonpilot]

Will passes necessarily be available in the STEP program? Someone could have a ticket to sell, but didn't buy the pass because they were riding in with someone else, right?

[trilobyte]

Yes, it's another thing to have to get sorted out, just like it was expected to be when the decisions were made and the program was announced. And just like it is at other festivals and events that do vehicle pass programs.

While the prophecizers of doom and people who thought the sky might be falling prior to tickets going on sale were predicting passes would vaporize either before the individual sale, or in the first few minutes... there were plenty to go around. No apparent hoarding, the numbers were in line with (if not a bit lower than) what was expected. Leaving PLENTY available for the upcoming OMG sale. Remember, the total number of vehicle passes being offered is slightly more than enough to cover this year's expected population, based on what Burning Man knows from past years' events. Sure, that all goes out the window if suddenly every burner decides to come alone... but there's been no indication that something like that is going to happen. If anything, there's been more interest in carpooling/ride sharing and stuff like Burner Express (which may sound like nonsense to you, but worked pretty well for my campmates who used it last year).

There is no leaving your car in Gerlach, by the way - that will get your vehicle towed at a probably enormous expense.

By my estimation, your odds are actually greater that you'll be able to get a vehicle pass in the OMG sale than you'll get a ticket.

[nocturnal_steve]

vehicle passes being offered is slightly more than enough to cover this year's expected population, based on what Burning Man knows from past years' events

So how has implementing the vehicle pass supposed to reduce the number of cars ? Will Burners paying $400 for an event ticket, $600+ or more for gas and supplies be deterred by an extra $40 fee ? From what this 15X burner can see (my informal personnel observation) & many times personally carpooling, offering rides, looking for a ride etc. .....most Burners who have room in their vehicles, can co-ordinate time frames etc. do offer rides... either in the spirit of the event, to get help with gas money or both.

I can absolutely tell you that co-coordinating a ride share thing with near strangers can be a mess. It's like musical chairs . Strangers promise, keep all their options open, withhold info about other potential rides or riders / plans they are considering. It gets shifted around , people are tentative, get a ride with someone else or offer a ride to someone with less hairy armpits or buttocks that smell like roses. It only really jells in the last two weeks before the event.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the vehicle pass program has done is encourage hoarding, scalping (have you checked the scalper market prices on FubHub lately).

Similar to the BORG's refusal to implement an event ticket tied to name program. Even good meaning Burners who wouldn't think of scalping tickets
(probably) had their grandmother, second cousins, Rabbi, and Sunday school teacher register for the direct sale. Some wound up with more tickets then they needed (numbers unknown). I am not even going to start with the hypothetical "how many tickets wound up in scalpers hands" debate.

I know through my personal quest for tickets this year that well intentioned Burners are sitting on extra tickets in case their grandmother, tax accountant, that cute girl or guy they met in a drunken stupor at the Lager Fest last week and gave them head behind the dumpster, decides to go. Net effect keeps tickets out of circulation, drives up scalper prices "perceived scarcity". Messes with Burners; first timers and veterans alike; ready, wanting & willing to plan, paint, commit , rock-n-roll .

Looks like I will finally get the tickets I need this year since I reached out to my local inner circle (registered theme camp / directed sale). Although I am not an official member and don't camp with them, I have gladly put in my fair share of enthusiasm and effort helping them with their Mutant Vehicle & art projects over the years. And they are getting wind of a couple of no-shows.
-----------------------------------------------------
For more on the one name/one ticket debate see http://blog.burningman.com/2012/12/tenp ... ticketing/
& draw your own conclusions.

Thanks for letting me vent... Thanks for listening.

[Eric]

Similar to the BORG's refusal to implement an event ticket tied to name program. Even good meaning Burners who wouldn't think of scalping tickets
(probably) had their grandmother, second cousins, Rabbi, and Sunday school teacher register for the direct sale. Some wound up with more tickets then they needed (numbers unknown).

The reason the numbers are unknown is because you have no proof of the scale this happened at. Where there some asses who did it? Absolutely. How many people did? No way to know - but they screwed themselves as much as everybody else by driving up the demand for something that already is in short supply.

drives up scalper prices "perceived scarcity"

There is no "perceived scarcity' - there is actual, honest-to-god scarcity. There are thousands more people who want to attend than the event is allowed to have - that, in no uncertain terms, means some people just aren't going to get tickets anymore. It's not some evil conspiracy, it's the simple fact that the Burn has gotten more popular, and that more people want to attend than the BLM will allow. Period. That's not some made up "reasons why I didn't get a ticket, so the game is rigged" reasoning, that's the New Reality.

Putting names on tickets actually makes it even harder for someone to get one, because they can no longer be given to a friend, or passed to someone in your camp when you suddenly can't make it, or a camp couldn't pass on a Distributed ticket to someone in need when a member fell through. It all would go into the randomness of STEP, and then you'd hear screaming from here to the ends of the earth how people are getting screwed because their friend can't pass on a ticket to them anymore. There is no way to make everyone happy, because there is no way everyone will get a ticket anymore. It's really that simple, even if everyone wants to walk around believing in magic tickets falling from the sky.

[nocturnal_steve]

but they screwed themselves

They have their tickets How did they screw themselves ?

Putting names on tickets actually makes it even harder for someone to get one, because they can no longer be given to a friend

If my friend is motivated, interested is going they will register & get their own ticket. It's called moderately not so radical self reliance.

their friend can't pass on a ticket to them anymore

Is the friend who didn't make the effort to procure their own ticket more deserving than someone who was shut out of the general sale & is now waiting in STEP ? Cronyism at it's best.

(Those with a named ticket who can't make the event can pass it back into STEP.)

camp couldn't pass on a Distributed ticket to someone in need

The Distributed Tickets can be excluded from name/ticket, I trust any theme camp with no show's or extra's will look for motivated, contributing bodies or otherwise distribute conscientiously.

[Eric]

If my friend is motivated, interested is going they will register & get their own ticket. It's called not so radical self reliance.

their friend can't pass on a ticket to them anymore

Is the friend who didn't make the effort to procure their own ticket more deserving than someone who was shut out in of the general sale & is now waiting in STEP ? Cronyism at it's best.

Not everyone who registered & entered the sale got a ticket. There were not enough tickets for everyone. Why is this so hard to understand? It's not that they weren't "self reliant", it's that the tickets sold out while they were trying to get one - there were tons of posts on here of people who tried to get a ticket & were too late - even if they started just a few minutes after the tickets went on sale. Getting a ticket is less about being a self-reliant bad-ass and more about being lucky enough to have gotten into line quickly enough.

Oh - that "cronyism" you're bitching about. Doesn't this count as it?

Looks like I will finally get the tickets I need this year since I reached out to my local inner circle (registered theme camp / directed sale). Although I am not an official member and don't camp with them, I have gladly put in my fair share of enthusiasm and effort helping them with their Mutant Vehicle & art projects over the years. And they are getting wind of a couple of no-shows.

I can't think of anything more "crony" than gaming the system to avail yourself of Directed Sale tickets even though you freely admit to not being a member of the camp - doesn't seem to fit your own definition of "radically self reliant" either.

[socks2]

Ok, I have held my mud on this subject for long enough.We were told by the borg because all us burners for 2 weeks a year were wearing out the roads coming and going to burning man. That even might sound true if it were not the fact that US Gypsum trucked hundreds of thousands of tons over the very same roads. They did this for 20+ years but its us who must pay. One would think the borg would stand up for us on this. Think again.
The pass will raise 1,520,000 in revenue for road maintenance and the borg is ok with it which is saddening. But the real danger is it has set the stage for other local and state agencies when they have funding short falls they will lean on the borg. And in true borg fashion they will show their belly and then point to our wallets.

socks

[SLOKnightfall]

That even might sound true if it were not the fact that US Gypsum trucked hundreds of thousands of tons over the very same roads. They did this for 20+ years but its us who must pay.

And I would be willing to bet that US Gypsum was charged to help maintain the roads over those 20+ years. 40-50 thousand vehicles worth of ware and tear in such a short time is more damaging to the road than a years worth of gypsum shipments. Not to mention the impact to the local communities. The passes are 2 fold in trying to reduce the amount of cars and helping pay to the road maintenance.

[BBadger]

Ok, I have held my mud on this subject for long enough.We were told by the borg because all us burners for 2 weeks a year were wearing out the roads coming and going to burning man. That even might sound true if it were not the fact that US Gypsum trucked hundreds of thousands of tons over the very same roads. They did this for 20+ years but its us who must pay. One would think the borg would stand up for us on this. Think again.
The pass will raise 1,520,000 in revenue for road maintenance and the borg is ok with it which is saddening. But the real danger is it has set the stage for other local and state agencies when they have funding short falls they will lean on the borg. And in true borg fashion they will show their belly and then point to our wallets.

Gee, it's almost as if you're naive enough to believe US Gypsum was hauling out their gypsum using pickup trucks or something, rather than large trucks that have heavy vehicle fees and taxes applied to them.

[jasonk]

*IF* the concern is traffic tie-ups and not total volume, why not offer some vehicle passes that are timed to make people enter/exit/both at off-peak times?

[Savannah]

That would work if not for the fact that people tend to leave earlier or later than they think they will. Stakes get stuck in the ground, moop sweeps take longer than people think they will, people oversleep (wise actually, leaving without enough sleep is dangerous).

Last year I left more than a full day early because I had the flu.

[VultureChow]

Gate FAQs address the timed exodus passes pretty thoroughly:

Q. You should set up a system where people can register for a departure time and give them an "express" lane (or some version of a priority/regulated system). Those who miss their window or don’t register would have to wait longer.
A. This suggestion has made its way to us every year for many, many years now. And on the surface it looks very attractive. But, as is usually the case, the devil is in the details. Here are the primary reasons we have not implemented a reservation-based Exodus system:

Such a system takes a lot of people power (e.g., people to verify departure times, people to direct traffic, people to enforce the system) and a lot of resources (e.g. a registration system, building secure lanes for five miles of Gate Road that would prevent people from jumping into the wrong section); more than we currently have.

Verifying registration would require slowing traffic before Gate Road, which will in turn slow down the rate at which people can get onto Gate Road. Without a significant redesign, traffic inside BRC could become gridlocked.

One thing we have learned about Burning Man is people rarely stick to their intended timeline. Camp clean up took longer than planned, you stayed up really late the night before, it took a while to track down your passengers, you couldn’t find your car keys, you just had to visit the ashes of the Man one more time, or myriad other possibilities that are so very common to the Burning Man experience. To get 70,000 people to stick to a specific window of time may very well be the most difficult part of this idea to solve.

Another thing our Gate experience tells us is that verifying Exodus registrations and enforcing rules will not be a simple process. We will no doubt hear many stories (traffic to get from my camp at 2:00 was worse than I thought, but I really did leave in time! My campmate burned my registration slip in an offering to the Man but this really is my time window! I have a flight that leaves in a few hours, please I need to get out faster!). Each vehicle that pleads their case in turn holds up traffic for everyone else, and this ultimately will cause significant inefficiencies in the system.

Remember how we said this type of system would require a lot more people power? Despite our calls for help from the community, we continue to struggle to find enough people to manage the bare basics of Exodus (e.g. highway flaggers). We understand most people are tired by the end of the event, and many need to get home. However, in order for us to continue to evolve the Exodus process, we need YOUR help. We need volunteers to help run all parts of this process. Everything that happens in BRC is created entirely by its citizens, including Exodus.

Some of the above issues could be overcome, but taken all together a system like this in an environment like Burning Man would be complex and expensive to implement and considerably more difficult to run efficiently. We will continue to look at options and consider your feedback.

[BBadger]

*IF* the concern is traffic tie-ups and not total volume, why not offer some vehicle passes that are timed to make people enter/exit/both at off-peak times?

1) Entering: It's not like walking up to a Disney ride with a skip-line pass. Timing out your arrival is a pain, and even if you did time it out, there will be assloads of people there already, waiting to enter (on time or later) anyway. So you're not gaining anything.

2) Leaving: You can already leave at off-peak times of the day -- and it is awesome. Leave Sunday morning, or a day after exodus. Or is this just so that everyone else is forced to leave on off-peak hours so that you can leave during peak hours?



Really though, enduring the line wait to enter or leave Burning Man has got to be first among First World Problems.

[jasonk]

Or is this just so that everyone else is forced to leave on off-peak hours so that you can leave during peak hours?

Wow, that's cynical.

>"Really though, enduring the line wait to enter or leave Burning Man has got to be first among First World Problems."

Nothing in my post had anything to do with worries about wait time. It was about the fact that many are worried that they'll need a pass, but won't be able to get one.

I've seen a lot of references to getting one during OMG. That seems slim chance, assuming they stop selling passes when they run out of BM tickets.

[BBadger]

Or is this just so that everyone else is forced to leave on off-peak hours so that you can leave during peak hours?

Wow, that's cynical.

Yes, yes it is.

>"Really though, enduring the line wait to enter or leave Burning Man has got to be first among First World Problems."

Nothing in my post had anything to do with worries about wait time. It was about the fact that many are worried that they'll need a pass, but won't be able to get one.

My statement may have been colored by the endless posts in the past related to gate traffic, waiting in line, and all different schemes about how to reduce it and the volume of cars. I don't see the "scarcity" of vehicle passes as related to gate traffic at exodus, but rather total traffic at the event. Any kind of phased release of people, off or on peak, looks more like a scheme to reduce exodus traffic, as has been proposed way too many times in the past.

The statement is also in reference to how much complaining people produce about having to wait in line to enter or exit a week-long festival in the desert. A real first world problem. It's not like we're refugees or evacuating in the wake of a hurricane or something.

I've seen a lot of references to getting one during OMG. That seems slim chance, assuming they stop selling passes when they run out of BM tickets.

My gut feeling is that they have infinite numbers of those vehicle passes they can and will sell, that they will be decoupled from BM tickets. More importantly, I believe the real purpose of the perceived scarcity and wait time forces people to consolidate and explore alternative means obtain rides -- not any particular limit on them or the $40 they could've easily baked into the price of the BM ticket itself. It makes people try harder than just a tax would do directly.

[curiousbob]

Hummm, well I think it's a total BS system forcing people who have already spent HUNDREDS on tickets to sit in massive anxiety about not being able to get a $40 pass, FORCING THEM TO SPEND hundreds more on EBAY and CL.

It's double jeopardy, canceling a $650 ticket because you couldn't find the $40 ticket

Tickets are HARD TO GET, I got shut out of the first 2 rounds of ticketing and have HAD TO RESORT TO THE SECONDARY MARKET.

I have been checking every ticket offer under $700 listed that I can find every 15 minutes for the past 5 weeks.

Of the 87 responses to tickets for sale only, 1 was valid and a PreSale ticket at that.

So now that I have $3000 invested in art and ticket and camp supplies, I HAVE TO SPEND ANOTHER $200 just to get my stuff in, TOTAL BS.

I truly hope that when you turn people away with legitimate tickets that couldn't find the Magic $40 pass they take it up with the proper authorities and attorneys .

Way to ruin the burn for the unfortunate soles in that position.

Ii's as bad as all of the scammers I've had to deal with just trying to find a legitimate ticket.
.

[DrScott626]

Mr Trilobyte:

As I suspected, you have a strong pulse about what goes on with the BM postings and how to relay information. POINT MADE.

Postby trilobyte » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:12 pm
"Send a note of complaint either to that person, or another on the team, or send a message to [email protected]. We discuss them as a group, and also with HQ as necessary."

I am sure you will block this post, but here it is.

SLOwknightfall said:
“And I would be willing to bet that US Gypsum was charged to help maintain the roads over those 20+ years. 40-50 thousand vehicles worth of ware and tear in such a short time is more damaging to the road than a years worth of gypsum shipments. Not to mention the impact to the local communities. The passes are 2 fold in trying to reduce the amount of cars and helping pay to the road maintenance.”

Thank You Mr SLO for exactly stating what many Tribal members have been saying.

IF $40 vehicle passes pays for road repairs, then should not Burning Man also pay for the Tribal Right of Way on the SR447, with all their heavy equipment?
The legal answer is yes. The moral answer is yes.
BM has skirted the issue since inception.

Information about Tribal Right of Way on State owned Highways can be found here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_v._United_States
Supreme Court Ruling 1981

and here:
This comes from the MHA Nation- Three Affiliated Tribes
http://www.mhadot.com/axUserPolicies.php#2

NDOT owns the SR447
WHAT travels on the SR447 is under Tribal control.

How about this:
PLPT members do not even get discounted tickets.....no invitation to the Party......BUT they get to clean it up for $5/bag AND WASH CARS!
How thoughtful.

Public Service Announcement as per BLM stipulations 2013
All Burners:
Please remember whose "Living Room" you are traveling thru.
Enjoy the rugged beauty,and the 12,000 year old history of habitation in the Great Basin.
DO NOT stop and use the desert as your personal "toilet" you will be fined $200/ vehicle / $125 per person
Daily permits are REQUIRED if people or vehicles stop within 75' of the Median Line on SR447. Fines are the same as above.
Speed and intoxication checkpoints will be enforced for 2014.
DONT DRINK and DRIVE.
Slow down and have a safe trip.

DrScott

[theCryptofishist]

The $40 is for multiple things, and yes, it looks like road repair is one of them. But its chief function is to decrease traffic, by encouraging people to share transport. Relations with the neighbors, including the Paiute, are something else.




Does that seem kinda like a "gotcha" question to anyone else?