EU1000i 2000i External Fuel Tanks

[Train Wreck]

This tank is new and doesn't have a vent. Damn EPA. I'll look into the fuel demand valve from Attwood.

[Meat Hunter]

The open/close disc on the top of my gas tank filler cap is very similar to the open/close disc on the top of the filler cap on my 2000i generator.

Both my generator and my extended run tank are both eight years old, so this might account for the design difference.

[Meat Hunter]

Just a thought and I do not know how it would play into your fuel management.

My BERG system came with a female quick disconnect fitting that screws into the aluminum cap on the generator and connects to the male quick disconnect fitting on the hose from the extend run tank. My small disconnect fitting is similar to those fittings that are found on air compressor hoses.

When connected, there is a free flow of fuel. However, when disconnected (and important to me) both ends of the fittings are sealed to prevent fuel from leaking out from either the generator cap or the end of the hose on the larger fuel tank.

[GreyCoyote]

Turns out the demand valve is necessary if you sit the fuel tank in the sun and let it pressure-up. these things really do make pressure! After about 3 PSI, the EU2000 starts getting choppy at idle. As soon as this happened, I cracked the cap on the bulk tank to relieve pressure as I didnt want to hurt the genny.

I have no way to prove the failure mode, but I would assume its pushing the needle valve in the carb off its seat and starting to flood the engine. The Atwood demand regulator fixes the problem nicely.

The correct part number is critical, as there are three of them, each with progressively increasing vacuum required before they will allow fuel to flow. I used the least-sucky (LOL) of the three available. The Atwood part number is
9300FDV7 which opens at about 5-6 inches of vacuum. If you see one with WHITE lettering, this is the correct part.

Specs are here at the manufacturers website: http://www.attwoodmarine.com/userfiles/ ... -specs.pdf

Both WallyMartus and Ackkademmy Sporting Guds had it for $20. Its a simple install: cut the fuel line near the tank and splice it in. Done.

[Meat Hunter]

GreyCoyote,

I am not familiar with the demand valve. I must be missing something

Would not just loosing the air relief knob on the marine fuel tank cap relieve the pressure. I have run outboards for years in up and down the Mississippi and out in the gulf and all that we have ever done to relieve a vacuum or pressure has been to open the twist knob on the tank top.

[GreyCoyote]

MH: Yup, me too. Heck, most of my old marine tanks had a vent outlet over the side of the boat! We used to tell when it was gettig full by how much gas splashed out of the vent! But no more. The EPA decided that you couldnt vent ANY fumes (and heaven forbid, LIQUID fuel!) and instead had to contain them all. So in all new tanks (count yourself lucky with an old one!) the cap only vents one way: inwards. If the bulk tank goes below atmospheric, it lets air in, but if it goes above atmospheric, it will NOT until it blows a rupture disk somewhere around 7 psi. And that is a problem feeding an EU2000 that expects a max of about 8 inches of positive tank pressure. All modern fuels have a high vapor pressure compared to the old fuels, so if you put a little heat into the tank, you suddenly have 3-4 PSI of positive pressure that swamps the genny.

The easy way around this problem is to put a tiny pinhole in the bulk tank cap so the tank can breathe. But since my tank is located *inside* the cargo trailer, I dont want to risk vapor build-up, so i am using the demand regulator.

Guys like you with the old-school/pre-EPA tanks make me kinda jealous. Hehehe

[Meat Hunter]

Thanks for the information.

Three months ago, I gave away several old plastic marine gas tank: 3-6 gal.and 1-12 gal. I sure am glad that I saved 1-6 gal. tank. It is no longer bright red (rather a dull orange now), but I am going to hang on to it and be on the lookout at garage sales and flea markets for another one.

In this part of the country, finding an older model marine tank should not be very difficult.

Question:
A week or so ago you wrote that you had installed a hand-ball-primer on your fuel line to assure that there was no air in the line. On my farm, I have only used my extended run tank but twice and I do not remember having a problem. Is this or something that I need to install on my fuel line for the Playa?

[Meat Hunter]

There is something to be said for being long-in-the-tooth and very grey-in-the-head, i.e. our tools and toys are old; real old - And, they work better than the new ones.

[GreyCoyote]

Question:
A week or so ago you wrote that you had installed a hand-ball-primer on your fuel line to assure that there was no air in the line. On my farm, I have only used my extended run tank but twice and I do not remember having a problem. Is this or something that I need to install on my fuel line for the Playa?

The primer bulb was total overkill, and Capt Goddammit called me out on it.

As long as you start with a nearly full generator tank, and the bulk tank sits about the same level, you should never have a fuel flow problem and won't need the bulb. Thousands of gennys run these systems without the bulb primer. But in my case I had two things I was designing for:

1). I wanted to test the limits of how far the Honda would draw fuel when the bulk tank sat below the level of the generator. To do this properly, I wanted all of the air out of the fuel line, and I wanted that genny tank to be to-the-brim full. The best way to do this was to install the primer bulb, unscrew the genny cap a fraction, pump the genny tank to overflow, and then cinch the genny cap up.

2). The other reason is I wanted "belt and suspenders" when it came to fuel delivery. We are driving from the Houston, Texas area cross-country in summer heat pulling a stifling cargo trailer with *two* chest freezers full of eats and nibblies. The freezers must to be kept powered even while we are moving. If the freezers get above 28F, even for a minute, I'm tossing the contents. I don't want to give anybody the trots at TTITD, so I didn't want any fuel hiccups. The presence of that primer bulb allows me to quickly debug that part of the system if something goes wrong on the road. Squeeze the bulb = fuel dribbles? Then we can move on to the next diagnostic point. Again... absolute overkill. Completely unnecessary in most installations. If I was sitting still and didn't have 600 lbs of food at risk, I never would have done it this way.

TL;dr - Bulb is entirely optional and arguably unnecessary.

[Meat Hunter]

Just to make sure, I went out to the barn today to take a look at the cap on my old red plastic marine fuel tank.

Yup. My cap vents -- both ways for sure. Under the cap is a black rubber bubble/gasket and in the center of the bubble there is a tiny hole that you can see light through. When the flat valve on top of the cap is opened just a bit, there is a free exchange of air in both directions.

[--Ever--]

Informative thread, thanks guys.

Does any of this change for an eu1000i?

For someone who's yet to buy any extra parts for an external fuel tank, has there been a consensus on the best items/companies to buy (IE the vent issue)?

[--Ever--]

Would any of these solve the pressure issue experienced in the playa heat?

[GreyCoyote]

Ever: there is no real difference between the EU2000 and EU1000 as far as the fuel system goes. They are basically copies of each other so what works for one will work for the other.

On venting: the first link you posted is the demand regulator, which, if it has WHITE lettering is the right one for our use. The others are for big marine tanks, not the portables we use. The big marine tanks have a vent hose fitting in addition to the fuel outlet. This vent fitting is designed to vent overboard via a through-hull fitting. The portable tanks we use have only a single hose, and this is the fuel outlet, so there is actually no way to attach an external type of vent.

If you will have the bulk tank outside in the clear air then you could leave the bulk tank cap a 1/4 turn loose and this would fix the problem. It will breathe enough to avoid pressure or vacuum. If you have the tank inside a trailer however, then you need to install the demand regulator and cinch the bulk tank cap on tight to prevent the accumulation of fuel vapors.

Remember: "Burning Man" is metaphorical. If you actually get burned due to an improperly vented fuel system, then you are doing it wrong.

[Captain Goddammit]

Remember: "Burning Man" is metaphorical. If you actually get burned due to an improperly vented fuel system, then you are doing it wrong.

Well that's technically arguable...

[GreyCoyote]

Remember: "Burning Man" is metaphorical. If you actually get burned due to an improperly vented fuel system, then you are doing it wrong.

Well that's technically arguable...

I guess it could be performance art. Or a throwback to the Ford Pinto?

[--Ever--]

Putting in an order soon. Curious if this is everything. After research I found it's more detailed than simply buying a generator, a hose and a tank

Just curious if I'm missing any bits or bobs and looking for a little guidance on the options below.

Cap combo pack:



Connector for cap options (these look funny but were Amazon-recommended matches for the cap. Thoughts?):

A



B



C

"Regular" NPC fitting, however this wasn't a recommendation to match with the cap



No-spill nipple to connect hose to gas tanks listed below (is this necessary?):



Tank options (unfortunately all are non-pressure-venting)

12g Attwood:



12g Attwood low-profile:



6g Attwood:


6g Attwood with fancy pants gauge:


Fuel line options:

5' x 1/4" rubber:



versus

4' x 1/4" steel braided (thoughts?):



Filter options

Braided/threaded. Is that bad?):



Regular



Valve (answer from previous post says this won't help with keeping the tanks from expangding. However I then read the gene can flood from pressure, which is what these are made for. Is this necessary?:



Clamps:



Prepping for extended use:

Oil: is run of the mill synthetic 10W-30 good for the playa?

Spark plug: NGK + gapper

Air filters: will clean from last year. Tutorial said to soak new ones in oil...kinda strange but w/e!

[GreyCoyote]

You definitely want all of this:

Cap combo pack:



And this too:

A



And this (avoid the low profile if possible. It wants to be level to get all the fuel out of it)

12g Attwood:



Or this if space is tight:

6g Attwood:



Get hose like this, but inner diam has to match the fittings yiu use. Steel braided is a waste of money for this application.


5' x 1/4" rubber:




DO NOT USE THIS PE. They leak and shatter.

Braided/threaded. Is that bad?):



This works fine:




In my setup, this is necessary. YMMV:




Clamps:



Oil: I use Mobil One Synetic, either 0w20 or 0w30. Read about this: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

There ya go.

[--Ever--]

Hah amazing, thanks man. Hopefully this is helpful to others too.

And what about this lil guy? To attach the 1/4in hose to the tank?


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007G2JFBA/ref ... 3JUS7SRC86

[--Ever--]

Also curious if anyone's ever changed out their carb jet to the one meant for 4k+ altitude. Beyond the price ($6), is there any possible downsides to doing this for the playa?

[Captain Goddammit]

I don't use any special valves, I just run hose from the tank through an inline filter to the generator cap. All the other stuff is fine but unnecessary.
I use 3/8" fuel line.
Don't use the threaded filter, just get one with hose barbs and splice it inline with your fuel line.
Remember to get stainless steel hose clamps. Others rust out from the corrosive playa dirt. But yeah, braided steel fuel line is overkill. There's no pressure in this system. It's good for 100 style points if you really want it though.

[GreyCoyote]

Also curious if anyone's ever changed out their carb jet to the one meant for 4k+ altitude. Beyond the price ($6), is there any possible downsides to doing this for the playa?

The opinion is divided as to if this is really necessary. The playa is right at the dividing line between needing the sea level to 4000 foot jet (stock jet, #62), and the 4000 to 7000 foot jet (#60). If you plan on running the genny hard, personally I would run the richer jet. Being a tad on the rich side doesnt hurt anything but emissions and fuel economy. Going lean under a hard load tends to turn pistons into interestingly distorted ashtrays.

I am bringing both jets and plan to experiment late in the week to see which is better under load.

The downside to this is you will be opening the carb (albeit briefly) under playa conditions. That is a risk. The idle circuit has TINY openings. Bring a spare gasket set and carb cleaner if you plan on doing this. This is why I will only play re-jetting games late in the week rather than early.

[Captain Goddammit]

Well, GreyCoyote... you do know the best fix for high altitude, right... turbocharging!! That's what it was originally invented for, as I'm sure you know.
I wonder what the smallest available turbo is...
I've got an EU1000 lying in pieces in the garage... it weighs 20 pounds less than the EU2000s do. That with a teeny tiny turbo... hmmmm.....
Hot rodders will be hot rodders!

[--Ever--]

Checking in post-burn. The extended tank (links a few posts above) seemed to work great, however I couldn't run the system for more than a few hours.

My only issue is that the eu2000i began dying about halfway through the week. At first I didn't want to push it and only ran it for a few hours at a time. One hot day I finally left it on for about 5 hours in the heat of the day. It was off when we returned. After that, it would never really run for more than a few hours. It seemed worse during the day, but it definitely happened at night as well.

What would happen is it would begin to struggle. It would kind of "chug" every few seconds. Lights would dim, power would drop. It would get worse and worse until it finally died after about five minutes. This happened regardless of Eco Throttle on or off.

I changed the oil, cleaned the filter and topped up all gas. This fixed it temporarily, but it happened again after a day. When it would happen, the generator wouldn't restart. I'd have to let it rest for a few hours. Afterwards I re-cleaned the filter a day or two later. It helped but then the event ended.

TLDR: extended tank worked fine in theory, but gene would struggle and die after 4+ hours of use. Yet to know if it's because of the gene itself, or something with the plumbing. Perhaps something would happen with the pressure after a few hours?

Note: the gene only had about 10 hours of use on it prior to this year.

[Captain Goddammit]

So was the genny out of gas?
What that sounds most like is not having an open vent in the external gas tank.

The other possibility is your carburetor got dirty.

Something was wrong with your setup because I've run these things 24/7 on the playa.

[--Ever--]

So was the genny out of gas?
What that sounds most like is not having an open vent in the external gas tank.

The other possibility is your carburetor got dirty.

Something was wrong with your setup because I've run these things 24/7 on the playa.

Thanks Cap't. Hope Hawaii was awesome.

The gas tank is the Attwood 12g with the EPA cap. I don't think has a switchable "vent" of sorts, at least not that I saw. I figured it was just a permanent one-way valve. Is there something I had to open/close? I didn't see a switch like the one on the eu2000's "default" gas cap.

Carb could be dirty. Will add it to the list of things to check out.

[kowtow]

I ran my EU2000i 24/7 for about 10 days out on the playa this year with no problems. I did have an issue when I touched down in the dirt, the genny wouldn't start after some initial troubleshooting and some help from GreyCoyote it appears that draining the gas from the carb was the culprit. This genny only had about 5 hours on it before this year's burn and I didn't have any problems ever starting it here at home (Portland area).

A couple things I would suggest you check:
1. Make sure the vent (if there is one) on the top of the external tank is closed. Mine is a Berg model which you thread the vent cap.
2. Make sure the EU2000i tank is topped off
3. Drain the gas from the carb bowl

Hope this info helps.

[Captain Goddammit]

1. Make sure the vent (if there is one) on the top of the external tank is closed.

I think you meant to say make sure the vent is open!

[kowtow]

Probably. I didn't want to try and find the instructions for the tank, because they are buried somewhere in the "shaggin' wagon," but I thought it said closed. Thanks for correcting me.

BTW - Unjonharley wasted no time calling you an S.O.B. at the burn this year.

[GreyCoyote]

Kowtow and I both ran side-by-side, and paralleled, 24/7 during the event. The only time the gennys were shut off was to change oil and check plugs and filters. They were bulletproof. Mine actually ran non-stop starting when we left Texas on Wed August 20th, and is still running as I write this (to keep the freezers cold). Shutdown will be on Friday, Sept 5th, for a total non-stop runtime of 16 days.

Ever: my setup is exactly as you posted. The only way you can run out is if the tank isnt vented or the tank is lower than the genny cap. If those two criteria are met, you wont have a fuel starvation issue.

On a different note, today as we were crossing the continental divide the genny stalled. Closer exam showed the plug was black. We were at 7400 feet and running sea-level jets! I swapped the plug for a new one and it fired right up. Later I ran the calc for density altitude and found it to be more than 9000 feet. Pretty wild it ran at all on the factory jetting!

More later. Still enroute and tired to the point of collapse. And happy. And dusty. And dreaming of next year.

[--Ever--]

Kowtow and I both ran side-by-side, and paralleled, 24/7 during the event. The only time the gennys were shut off was to change oil and check plugs and filters. They were bulletproof. Mine actually ran non-stop starting when we left Texas on Wed August 20th, and is still running as I write this (to keep the freezers cold). Shutdown will be on Friday, Sept 5th, for a total non-stop runtime of 16 days.

Ever: my setup is exactly as you posted. The only way you can run out is if the tank isnt vented or the tank is lower than the genny cap. If those two criteria are met, you wont have a fuel starvation issue.

On a different note, today as we were crossing the continental divide the genny stalled. Closer exam showed the plug was black. We were at 7400 feet and running sea-level jets! I swapped the plug for a new one and it fired right up. Later I ran the calc for density altitude and found it to be more than 9000 feet. Pretty wild it ran at all on the factory jetting!

More later. Still enroute and tired to the point of collapse. And happy. And dusty. And dreaming of next year.

Thanks for this.

So how do you "turn on and off" the vent while using the popular extended fuel cap? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004ZSAS82/ref ... KVXA2TMBVI

Normally the eu2000i has the switch on the default cap, but you don't use that with the extended run cap.
http://www.mayberrys.com/Assets/Accesso ... eu2cap.JPG