PAGE TWO

[GreyCoyote]

Socks?

Seriously?

Shit. How did you know??

Hush now, or Simon and his acolytes will appear and make EDM noises at you... Oh crap, here they come...

[Bless]

untz, untz, untz

[Captain Goddammit]

uh oh I hear it! I hear it!!

[kittyrodriguez]

How the hell do all of you people have enough time to post all this stuff? Newbies, oldbies, all of you need to stop posting so damn much. Jeebus! And, if you don't like therapists, don't go to one. The End.

Don't you people know its panic time right now. I should be packing, not refreshing the "unread posts" button.

[GreyCoyote]

Kitty: its kind of like the pre-collapse hysteria our kids get before a day at Disneyland.

[theCryptofishist]

I really want to post this on the thread(s) in question, but it goes against my idea that maybe ganging up on the idiots is really unkind.

*sigh*

[Admiral Fukkit]

I guess Page Three was too much... that's funny, it ended up milder than Page Two!

[BoyScoutGirl]

I guess Page Three was too much... that's funny, it ended up milder than Page Two!

... we were never very good at maths counting.

[Lonesomebri]

My new gig- ask everywhere, at soundcamps, at bars, visiting camps, events, Center Camp, porto lines, waiting for ice, fire circles, entry, exit.... ask with full sincerity "So, is this a party?"

[tamarakay]

Why bother to ask if you just keep rejecting answers till you get the one you want? If you are so smart just do what you fucking want. Are you looking for someone to blame if your axle breaks?

[Savannah]

My new gig- ask everywhere, at soundcamps, at bars, visiting camps, events, Center Camp, porto lines, waiting for ice, fire circles, entry, exit.... ask with full sincerity "So, is this a party?"

I'm going to start asking people everywhere if they themselves are the party.

I suggest everyone have an answer prepared!

[^Rhino!]

Savannah, that's dangerous.

'Calling Donner, party of 9....no, 8?"

Number 9's death certificate listed him as a victim of 'consumption'.

[Lonesomebri]

Q: So what is worse, a color-blind Klansmen in blackface or a hipster neo-nazi rapper quoting Dre?
A: Art.

[kittyrodriguez]

Holy crap. We know you don't like it. That dead horse is about the consistency of oatmeal by now. You can stop beating it.

[some seeing eye]

We have never been to Burning Man, but we are planning to bring $50,000 worth of expensive, delicate and dangerous equipment with us, is that OK?

You have my permission.

(You do not have my permission to wear Indian headdresses however)

[BBadger]

Rough morning?

It's federal land that makes the BLM a ton of money yearly. It's not an UNESCO site and the feds have no problem with say, cattle pooing, peeing, birthing babies ect. on federal lands without even collecting so much of a dime. I'm not sure why burners should be treated any different. I'd love to see the day BLM tries to shoot the cash cow BM represents. It would be an epic battle between the feds and Nevada that's for sure.

Oh. Another bitter rant about the money-making-powers-that-be.

Anyway, don't be so naive. The BLM definitely has issues with the impact of cattle on federal lands. That's what grazing allotments are for -- and yes, the BLM does collect fees for grazing. Cattle grazing can (often) be managed in areas where the land can recover, notably where vegetation can return to prevent erosion; however, such management is a recent phenomenon, as is most environmental assessment and management. The impact of cattle can be significant -- so much so that overgrazing has caused massive dust storms and major economic damage in the past. If it weren't for the lake that periodically resurfaces the playa, the playa would approximate those same overgrazing conditions even more than it already does.

As for that "cash cow": it's not shooting a cash cow when the cash cow violates the terms of its own agreements. That's the cash cow shooting itself in the foot. There won't be some showdown; the response will not be shutting down the event. Rather, the effects will be increasing the penalties for failing to meet the obligations of the agreement, more oversight, and a higher multiplier on future impact assessments (fees) based on population-projections. The cow isn't going to leave for greener pastures either. The milking will make the cow more hungry, but it'll compensate by just eating more green that you or I provide.

[AntiM]

Cash cow? Yeah, just ask Cliven Bundy. The BLM likes us a whole lot better. Naked is more fun than armed.

[FIGJAM]

Moo?

[jneilvindy]

BBadger I meant money-making in the nicest of ways.

Seriously no snark. I think money has turned out to be one of the best ways to handle society. As long as it's not to rigged a game anyone with drive can climb to the top of the heap. Sure, luck, timing and situation all play a part but it's still the best system we got so far I think.

If I was The larry I'd be charging as much as possible too! I don't feel the ORG owes me anything I'm not willing to pony up the cash for. I wish I'd thought of burning man back in the 70's!

BLM and all the national park systems are so strapped for cash I'm sure BM is a very welcome drop in their bucket. I personally would see the playa turned into a concrete parking lot for instance if it meant Yosemite valley and say Yellowstone park were maintained at full funding yearly all off BM income. Oh and for all I know BLM doesn't see a penny of BM monies, it's all pocketed by other government agencies or 17,000 helicopter drip pans.

I feel confident BLM recognizes the value BM brings to their organization as a whole and are willing to go quite a ways in keeping that money coming in yearly. They'd be idiotic not to.

Now if keeping the playa immaculate so The Larry can pocket more money and pay less fines, or say, pay a cleaning crew to come out and MOOP well then I'm just not sure where my thoughts on that issue lie. At what point in the ticket price is venue cleaning included I guess is a question the ORG will face from BLM sooner or later. Or not, depends on if the cleaning crew ever starts demanding a salary

At least as far as BLM sees, BM tries to be low impact which I'm sure is a big jump up from most Federal land users.

But I stand by my original conviction. Putting a drop tarp under your vehicle because your worried about rain runoff tainting the playa with junk stuck to your car is cray cray crazy!

[^Rhino!]

"Now if keeping the playa immaculate so The Larry can pocket more money and pay less fines, or say, pay a cleaning crew to come out and MOOP well then I'm just not sure where my thoughts on that issue lie. At what point in the ticket price is venue cleaning included I guess is a question the ORG will face from BLM sooner or later. Or not, depends on if the cleaning crew ever starts demanding a salary"

You really ARE a burgin aren't you?

The cleaning crew that cleans up the playa to LNT condition after everyone is gone is caled the DPW. Division of Public Works, Black Rock City. Bless all of 'em. Even uf they DO get paid,

[jneilvindy]

I almost went with unionized or full time yearly salary with benefits but hey, I'm lazy today so I didn't bother to look it up if the cleaning peeps was paid outta Larry's pocket

I figured he had harnessed the power of hippie earth-love and got them to do it all as their "gift" to the burn

Lord knows that's what I woulda tried!

[Eric]

I almost went with unionized or full time yearly salary with benefits but hey, I'm lazy today so I didn't bother to look it up if the cleaning peeps was paid outta Larry's pocket

It's not coming out of "Larry's pocket" - it's coming out of yours (and mine, and every other Burner's). Part of what our tickets pay for is "playa restoration" - assuming we were allowed to exist without it, the playa would look like a more nightmarish version of this by now:

That crap takes 6 weeks to clean up, but due to the idea of Leave No Trace, ours gets cleaned in less than a month (and that's due to the hard working DPW MOOP-crew picking extremely small crap out of the playa).

Everything for this event - every fee, every portapotty, every first-aid station, every single thing is paid for by our tickets - including the staff that runs it. You might think about that next time you complain how the money is being spent, because the only way to change it is to not buy the ticket in the first place (since it is in no way a democracy).

If I was The larry I'd be charging as much as possible too! I don't feel the ORG owes me anything I'm not willing to pony up the cash for. I wish I'd thought of burning man back in the 70's!

The Org (not "Larry") doesn't charge as much as possible - they could charge $600-1,000 a ticket & still sell out, we just wouldn't be the ones who could afford to go. They keep the prices as low as they can with everything those tickets have to pay for - and be glad they do, otherwise it really would be BroMan.


Alright you fuckos, don't make me split this off from Page Two as well. This thread is already moving far beyond being simple venting to becoming an attack vector, and that is not what is was designed for.

[Captain Goddammit]

Larry didn't think of burning man... he got invited to a party in Black Rock Desert by the real BM "founders". All he did was bring the stick man.

[unjonharley]

Larry has a magic ass.. He pulls a theme out of it ever year.. Sometimes he has a movement right after a burn.. Other times its hung chow for months..

[jneilvindy]

Ughghgh

How do you vets stand the year after year need a ticket posts?
In a painfully heart-wrenching way not a snark way?
The ones where they just expect a ticket to magically appear for free, yeah, not so hard to snark at, but the rest, even if corny or kinda over the top. Just a reflection of their desire to attend is how I see them

I want everyone at burning man!

[forty_eight]

[theCryptofishist]

BLM and all the national park systems are so strapped for cash I'm sure BM is a very welcome drop in their bucket. I personally would see the playa turned into a concrete parking lot for instance if it meant Yosemite valley and say Yellowstone park were maintained at full funding yearly all off BM income. Oh and for all I know BLM doesn't see a penny of BM monies, it's all pocketed by other government agencies or 17,000 helicopter drip pans.

Okay, they are both DOI, but let's not say they are the same entity. If there's any revenue sharing, it's probably contiguos lands backpacking permit fees type stuff.

[^Rhino!]

BLM and all the national park systems are so strapped for cash I'm sure BM is a very welcome drop in their bucket. I personally would see the playa turned into a concrete parking lot for instance if it meant Yosemite valley and say Yellowstone park were maintained at full funding yearly all off BM income. Oh and for all I know BLM doesn't see a penny of BM monies, it's all pocketed by other government agencies or 17,000 helicopter drip pans.

Okay, they are both DOI, but let's not say they are the same entity. If there's any revenue sharing, it's probably contiguos lands backpacking permit fees type stuff.

Add to that (the big money) the concessionaire contracts for the larger parks. The smaller parks have entry fees (as do the larger ones), but often rely on others for naturalist and interpretive help. The Geologic Society of America actively recruits geology students for positions in some of them, like Capulin Mountain National Monument in New Mexico, an extinct volcanic cone in thed Raton-Clayton volcanic field. Then thered's also "Friends of......(inserty park name here)" Some retired professionals are nothing less than topflight help.

My message is this:

The National Park System is yours and mine as citizens of the US. They get better because of volunteer citizen involvement. It's the whole 'citizen volunteer' thing from Burningman writ on a different piece of paper, but the same effect happens. People get more good out of it than they put into it in terms of satisfaction.

Oh, and as far as BLM goes, we're camping in the Black Rock/High Rock Wilderness area (a national designation. The have the Friends of Black Rock/High Rock, Earth Guardians promotes BLM projects during the week of Burningman, and includes educational tours and lectures about playa life (and the lack thereof, if you're not considering the species of fairy shrimp).

We're burners, we're used to volunteering....at Arctica, as Rangers, as ESD personnel, or with DPW. Everybody puts something INTO the event, or is supposed to. No fucking spectators or looky-loos. if you want to be a spectator, or not do something positive for Burningman or a park, go to a movie or an amusement park and pay for the privilege. That's the message.

I'll get off my goddamn soapbox now. And when I'm too old for TTITD, I'll get on as a volunteer at a National Park. For FUN.

[BBadger]

How do you vets stand the year after year need a ticket posts?
In a painfully heart-wrenching way not a snark way?

Does not compute.

Though really, it's because there is no "need" to attend Burning Man, only want. It's a vacation and the world will not end if you don't attend.

Anyway, people not actually having the ability to acquire tickets, not just pay the sticker price, is a recent phenomena.

[Eric]

How do you vets stand the year after year need a ticket posts?
In a painfully heart-wrenching way not a snark way?

Hear, Oh Children, the Way It Used To Be, and How It Is Now:
Up until the days of our Burn in 2010, Tickets were abundant, yea, like midges upon the water were they, where they could be purchased in Stores, and in the Mail, and at The Gate, and where all who did plan could Burn, and of those in need of tickets it was only the unfortunate or the hippie who could not attain them. Amen.

So abundant were the Tickets, oh Children, that to sell one before the Burn you must lose money like the old man doth loseth hair, for where-as now the phrase is "Face Value or Fuck Off", then the phrase was "Face Value? Fuck Off!" for they could be attained for so little of their face value. And the poor were blessed in the last weeks with their preparations, and they could attend for under $200, and the scalpers did not exist. Verily a paradise, though in rural Nevada.

Then the dark days of 2011 came upon the land, and the Tickets sold out, and the Unprepared cried to the heavens, asking how this fate had fallen upon them, even though the Sacred LLC had given plenty of warning. And the Begging for tickets began in earnest, and the old timers unloosed their Snark, for it was the only weapon Those Who Planned had against the Unprepared.

The Unprepared came to the front in the next few years, as Tickets flowed in relative abundance the last few weeks, and most were satiated, and it was only the most Unprepared who could not attend, and the Man was satisfied, as where Those Who Planned. And it was good.

Alas and alack, we have now arrived on the shores of a foreign sea, where there are so many of Those Who Plan who cannot obtain Tickets, and so many of the Unprepared wailing for entry, yet the Gates are held strong by the BLM to limit the flood, and not all Those Who Plan can Burn anymore, and the Unprepared are equal in their despair, and all we can do is counsel those who seem Worthy, while using Snark at those who seem Not To Get It, and to hope it's not as bad next year. But, alas, it will be. Amen.