DPW pulls a knife on a virgin?

curiousjosh · Post by **curiousjosh** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:24 pm

So I wanted to convey a story from my camp at Burning Man.

I was coming out of the showers and bumped into one of our camp virgins who was visibly shaken. I asked what was wrong and she said a series of rough things had happened to her and some rangers had pulled a knife on her.

I said that didn't sound like rangers to me, and asked if she could describe what happened.

She said it was the "black rangers," or the rangers in black, who were having a parade and came up to her while she was on one of the free bikes around the city.

At this point I realized she was talking about DPW and the DPW parade.

she said she was riding one of the free bikes out on the playa, when the parade came by. Apparently someone had put stickers on the bike and 3 of the "black rangers" came up and told her that decorations weren't allowed on city bikes, and that she had to give them the bike.

She told them that she hadn't decorated the bikes and didn't know the rule they were talking about and she really needed the bike to get back to camp (she was half way across the event, had very little water, and no other means of transport except walking).

At that point, she said one of the "rangers" brandished a knife and said it was her or the bike.

she gave over the bike and ended up walking the long way back to camp.
When I saw her outside of the shower, her hands were visibly shaking. She literally couldn't keep them still and commented on it holding them up to me.

I had to share... this story disturbed me enough that I just felt it should be out there.

digital · Post by **digital** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:55 pm

Sounds fishy... Or, at least, I'm being optimistic (not normally my nature).

I have many interactions with DPW throughout the event. Two DPW members camp with us. I cannot recall a negative experience -- with exception of one yelling at me for putting ice directly in my water bottle; which, in hindsight, was totally gross and wrong on my part.

If this story is in fact true and this DPW member is identified then you can bet an invitation to participate in future years will be revoked. They know this and would be a complete moron for pulling a knife on a participant. Again, I hope this story is false and/or missing details.

Bottom-line: Rough? Yes. Drunk? Usually. Violent and stupid? No.

tamarakay · Post by **tamarakay** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:58 pm

What a terrifying thing to have happen. Your friend needs to calmly sit, write out everything she can remember and submit it to burning man org. One of the mods can weigh in on which department would be best to report too.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:24 pm

I second that. It needs to be reported.

Post by **Sham** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:48 pm

What is being alleged here is a serious criminal act and MUST be reported. If there is any validity too this, the person who did this must be held responsible for their act.
We are hearing this story second hand, so the true facts may be diluted a bit, but this is very serious none the less.
I will find out who within the org this should be reported to.

Doctor VonBacon · Post by **Doctor VonBacon** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:08 pm

Reporting it now is all well and good (and absolutely should be done.)

But what about reporting it at the time of the incident, to you know, those guys in uniforms with the guns that many people here keep saying they don't want there...

Yes, I'm talking about reporting it to the honest-to-goodness police. It's kind of what they are there for,

If true, the actions in question are ABSOLUTELY a crime. Where I live, it's called "Menacing." Other places may call it "Attempted Assault" or "Aggrivated Harassment."

No matter what it is called, it is a crime. And one that is probably best dealt with at the time and place of occurrence.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:25 pm

Okay, that moment has passed. So, yes, LE--BLM and Pershing County sheriff. (Does the current sheriff like or hate the event?) As soon as possible.

Post by **mdmf007** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:59 pm

MOD NOTE:

Josh,

This is pretty serious stuff. I appreciate your patience while I parked this thread in our Quarantine section for a modicum of discussion. From here I would suggest your friend get a hold of BMORG as well as the Sheriff Department. Pulling a knife on someone and strong arming a ride out from underneath a gal makes for a pretty shitty person as well as being a crime.

I am glad your friend is ok.

MDMF007

Post by **trilobyte** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:01 pm

And I'm giving this a nudge over to the 2014 Stories board, since that's a better fit (Open Discussion is for random discussions outside Burning Man). See also the private message I sent you.

curiousjosh · Post by **curiousjosh** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:22 pm

mdmf007 wrote:MOD NOTE:

Josh,

This is pretty serious stuff. I appreciate your patience while I parked this thread in our Quarantine section for a modicum of discussion. From here I would suggest your friend get a hold of BMORG as well as the Sheriff Department. Pulling a knife on someone and strong arming a ride out from underneath a gal makes for a pretty shitty person as well as being a crime.

I am glad your friend is ok.

MDMF007

wow... thanks for those words MDMF007

yeah, it felt like a pretty crazy thing to do to someone. The girl wasn't even a good friend of mine, just someone from the camp I came upon while they were visibly shaken to the point I had to ask what was going on.

I'm going to try and get her contact info and urge her to follow up the way you described.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:36 pm

yes, please have the gal report directly to the ORG, et al.
if substantiated, this is not acceptable, on any level, and the correct dept. will act decisively to be sure it does not happen, again. I'm sure the perp. will be punished, as well.
Time is critical,for memory and context.

andy · Post by **andy** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:45 pm

I actually also had a knife pulled on me, though in my case it wasn't nearly as frightening. I had taken a wrong heading towards center camp (yeah, it sounds impossible but I did) and I think I was on A or Rod's Road. I was carrying some fairly heavy pieces to my art installation inside the cafe. When I realized that I was going the wrong way, I decided to cut through a camp since I could see the cafe just past the other side rather than carry the wood the long way. I was kind of cutting back and forth through parked cars and yurts when a youngish guy approached and pulled out a small knife. He was smiling and I think he was just playing around and not really trying to be threatening (maybe legitimately challenging someone walking though his camp) but I can see how others may have found that very threatening. I told him I was just passing through and that was the extent of our interaction but it was definitely off-putting.

kiboy · Post by **kiboy** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:30 pm

ygmir wrote:yes, please have the gal report directly to the ORG, et al.
if substantiated, this is not acceptable, on any level, and the correct dept. will act decisively to be sure it does not happen, again. I'm sure the perp. will be punished, as well.
Time is critical,for memory and context.

How exactly would one single person substantiate this? Especially at this late date.

Ano · Post by **Ano** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:32 am

kiboy wrote:
ygmir wrote:yes, please have the gal report directly to the ORG, et al.
if substantiated, this is not acceptable, on any level, and the correct dept. will act decisively to be sure it does not happen, again. I'm sure the perp. will be punished, as well.
Time is critical,for memory and context.
How exactly would one single person substantiate this? Especially at this late date.

I'd imagine that if it happened during the parade, there would be multiple witnesses. But I could be wrong! Maybe this happened a bit away from the parade?

I'm a fan of the Fuck-Yer-Day, Fuck-yer-burn snark, but sometimes things get out of hand.. way out of hand. There's a fine line between entertaining snark and just downright rudeness. I struggle to enjoy working with some people that I know because they focus way too much on hating participants they don't agree with as their burn. But, in the end, I guess that's their burn... I just minimize contact. Situations like this though... someone, somewhere, possibly stepped WAY overboard.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:12 pm

kiboy wrote:
ygmir wrote:yes, please have the gal report directly to the ORG, et al.
if substantiated, this is not acceptable, on any level, and the correct dept. will act decisively to be sure it does not happen, again. I'm sure the perp. will be punished, as well.
Time is critical,for memory and context.
How exactly would one single person substantiate this? Especially at this late date.

I suppose that might be an issue. But, if anyone witnessed it, it might start an investigation that would lead to substantiation.

Post by **Savannah** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:33 pm

ygmir wrote:
kiboy wrote:
ygmir wrote:yes, please have the gal report directly to the ORG, et al.
if substantiated, this is not acceptable, on any level, and the correct dept. will act decisively to be sure it does not happen, again. I'm sure the perp. will be punished, as well.
Time is critical,for memory and context.
How exactly would one single person substantiate this? Especially at this late date.
I suppose that might be an issue. But, if anyone witnessed it, it might start an investigation that would lead to substantiation.

Or, if the person were in some way identifiable and there had been another completely separate report from someone else about such behavior from this same person, it could lead to investigation as well.

Roy333 · Post by **Roy333** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:07 pm

digital wrote:Sounds fishy... Or, at least, I'm being optimistic (not normally my nature).

---- I cannot recall a negative experience -- with exception of one yelling at me for putting ice directly in my water bottle; which, in hindsight, was totally gross and wrong on my part.

Sorry for being trivial, but what am I missing here? What is wrong with putting ice in your water bottle???? I do it all the time and haven't had anything bad happen to me because of that.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:05 pm

Savannah wrote:Or, if the person were in some way identifiable and there had been another completely separate report from someone else about such behavior from this same person, it could lead to investigation as well.

If there's credible, but unsubstantiated reports, I imagine that the people who run the DPW would want to know. It's still possible that they could improve training, or something, to keep future instances down.
(Those are not the right words, sorry.)

SageV · Post by **SageV** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:10 pm

curiousjosh wrote:So I wanted to convey a story from my camp at Burning Man....

So, every year there are weird, hard to explain post-Burn stories, both offline and online. I've noticed a few common threads:

Nobody ever contacted the Rangers, the LEO's, or went to the LEO liaison to report the incident if it has something to do with a LEO.
There's always some ambiguous details to the story that don't quite add up.
The story comes far too late for the rangers to do anything about. Often a Ranger will come on and politely point out they get dozens of stories after every Burn they can't correlate to anything reported during the Burn.
If something medical was involved, like dosing or something, nobody bothers to call medical or go to medical. If they do go to medical and are redirected to a medical facility in Reno, its painted as a failing of medical's limited facilities and part of an BMORG policy of discrimination.
The story is often related by a third-party who didn't see the thing happen and is relating the story second or third-hand.

The point is, if something happens on the Playa, get a Ranger. Usually, I feel anybody who has been on the Playa a while is at a loss to respond to these stories anymore, because so often we've seen the truth turns out to be something completely else (e.g. it was an asshole with a patch and a utili-kilt with no affiliation to anything, the person saw it wrong because they aren't sharing the same reality and an offer of a Popsicle stick became an attempted stabbing, etc.). Too often, the "this happened on the Playa" stories have an Axe to grind. Sometimes its semi-innocent, because, yes, I've seen an offer of a Popsicle misinterpreted as an attempted stabbing when someone isn't quite sharing reality with us.

That's not to say that freaky stuff doesn't happen during the Burn, my crews over the years have been pretty rough and tumble themselves, but then again there's dozens of YouTube videos documenting those various misadventures, as opposed to the post-burn stories that seem to have scant supporting evidence and more than a few question marks that follow them.

tatonka · Post by **tatonka** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:50 pm

[media]

lucky420 · Post by **lucky420** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:55 pm

Roy333 wrote:
digital wrote:Sounds fishy... Or, at least, I'm being optimistic (not normally my nature).

---- I cannot recall a negative experience -- with exception of one yelling at me for putting ice directly in my water bottle; which, in hindsight, was totally gross and wrong on my part.

Sorry for being trivial, but what am I missing here? What is wrong with putting ice in your water bottle???? I do it all the time and haven't had anything bad happen to me because of that.

Ice could be contaminated if it's in an open cooler. Dirty feces hands reaching in, food floating about, etc. I think that's why some might think it's gross. The dirty cooler references are not mine by example just my fertile mind

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:41 pm

Thread drift... I put the ice in clean containers.. Can scoop out ice for drinks.. No food, water. or hand contamination ..

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:20 pm

lucky420 wrote:The dirty cooler references are not mine by example just my fertile mind

Hm... just noticing a sort of commonality here...

lucky420 · Post by **lucky420** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:01 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
lucky420 wrote:The dirty cooler references are not mine by example just my fertile mind
Hm... just noticing a sort of commonality here...

Said the wisest fish

ballyhoobetty · Post by **ballyhoobetty** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:10 pm

Hello,
This is the manager of the DPW Community Bike Program. I would like to follow up with the people involved in this experience. Please contact me at [email protected].

bolamin · Post by **bolamin** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:13 pm

DPW often get kicks from being scary. No denying that.

ANON1234 · Post by **ANON1234** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:08 pm

This is a long thread so I did not read it all.

I just did my first burn and everyone I met except for one was friendly.
Me and a few virgin friends went to the blackhole not knowing what the bar was.
As we went to enter a 20 somthing year old who said he worked at the gate told us to get lost and that we were not welcome.
He was very aggressive/drunk and insulted my Australian friends accent.
After talking to more experienced burners I heard many similar stories.

Having only burned once, I love burning man and the people I met with the exception of DPW staff.
From now on I will avoid DPW staff like racists cops... they both seem to feel that they are better than the group they are not a part of and abuse their authority.
I'm thankful for what DPW staff does.. but I wish they would give a shit about the 10 principles..

If someone who manages DPW staff reads this, I think it would be useful to spend sometime talking to the staff of the 10 principles.

Bless · Post by **Bless** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:20 pm

ANON1234 wrote:This is a long thread so I did not read it all.

I just did my first burn and everyone I met except for one was friendly.
Me and a few virgin friends went to the blackhole not knowing what the bar was.
As we went to enter a 20 somthing year old who said he worked at the gate told us to get lost and that we were not welcome.
He was very aggressive/drunk and insulted my Australian friends accent.
After talking to more experienced burners I heard many similar stories.

Having only burned once, I love burning man and the people I met with the exception of DPW staff.
From now on I will avoid DPW staff like racists cops... they both seem to feel that they are better than the group they are not a part of and abuse their authority.
I'm thankful for what DPW staff does.. but I wish they would give a shit about the 10 principles..

If someone who manages DPW staff reads this, I think it would be useful to spend sometime talking to the staff of the 10 principles.

A drunk person standing outside of the Black Hole insulted your friend's accent and now you think the entire DPW needs a stern lecture on the 10 Principles?

Tell me more about your virgin impressions...

Admiral Fukkit · Post by **Admiral Fukkit** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:58 pm

You don't get this yet, but the problem was you.
This isn't some hippie love fest.
Rule #1: You don't fuck with the DPW.
You're pretty much NOT welcome at the Black Hole unless you're in the DPW and you do the REAL work of building BRC.
That's how it is, it IS fair, you don't have any right to be in their joint,

The DPW does not need a lecture about the ten principles... you need one about real BM culture and how things in the desert work.
Radical Inclusion doesn't mean "all access pass". It only means anyone with a ticket and the means to take care of themselves is welcome to attend the event.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:03 pm

ANON1234 wrote:This is a long thread so I did not read it all..

So some one needs a diaper change .. Move along folks nothing to see here ..

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