Self-righteous, wealth-resenting burners running amok

[Simon of the Playa]

except for me...


i'm not supposed to go burn the man because my words pissed off the almighty fucking meat-cake.






still waiting for an apology, btw....

[Roberto Dobbisano]

you know, if you hate reading our replies, you could always plonk us...

[Sham]

We have always said that Burning Man is how the world should be. Maybe some day the world will take notice and all our work and efforts will effect some real positive change in this increasing cold and heartless world of our.
Well folks, it appears that we got some serious attention from people with the power and the money to actually effect this change and what do we do? (NOT A RHETORICAL QUESTION) What the fuck do we do? Let's beat on these people who can actually bring some of these great ideas and ideologies to the world. Let's call their staff 'sherpas' and let's mock the money that they have.

I have a better idea---let's continue to show the world what we are made of and allow EVERYONE to enjoy this amazing 'all inclusive' event and maybe, just maybe the Burning Man vibe will continue to spread around the world.

[H.G.Crosby]

this is not about money sham, this is about abuse of power, and piss-poor, untolerable behavior at the very least.


i, personally, do not want fucks like these in our community if the stories are true, and i'm afraid that this is the case.

maybe i'm wrong, and being close minded.....i don't think so though....


unless, perhaps, they come clean, and apologize to the community that they wish to be a part of.


otherwise.....fuck em'.


seriously.

[Simon of the Playa]

i think i have stated that over and over again...this has nothing to do with wealth, but it has everything to do with the root of all evil...

what you DO with that "blessing" is what matters to me.


how many wealthy individuals realize at some point that they have to give it back?

Mostly it's because they understand that no one wants to be remembered as a good businessman, they want to be remembered as a good man.







but nobody seems to be fucking listening because they are too goddamn busy circling the goddamn wagons...

[kiboy]

I have a better idea---let's continue to show the world what we are made of and allow EVERYONE to enjoy this amazing 'all inclusive' event and maybe, jut maybe the Burning Man vibe will continue to spread around the world.

What exactly does this mean "EVERYONE"? Does this mean "EVERYONE ON YOUR OWN TERMS"? Because that's what this discussion is about right? It's true that a positive attitude can affect those around you. It's also true that a negative attitude can do the same. Because of the "negative" actions of some burners, others don't always come away from a Burn saying "wow that changed my whole perspective on the world". This will play out in the long run. You're not going to see BM crumble this year or the next but one day if poor choices are made over time you can look at the man and conclude it's DEAD. Isn't that what happened to the hippie dream of the 60s? Wasn't it money that corrupted it? Just sayin.

[666isMONEY]

Zoom in, it says, "I <3 $$$"

[Simon of the Playa]

fuck it.



for me to say i don't care would be a lie.



i care more than you can possibly even imagine.



with every fiber of my being, i love the man.



but fuck it.


i'm not even coming back next year, why should i even post my opinions here anymore...i shouldn't.


it's not my place...it would be disingenuous to participate if i'm not even going to attend.


it's your playa, you do with it as you will....i love most of you....and i will miss this place, and that place.


Auf Weidersehen, until we meet again.


and no, i won't be using any socks either, the puppet show is over.

[AntiM]

The Mormons sing "until we meet again". Unacceptable.

[MacGlenver]

Seconded what Anti said.

[Elderberry]

Makes me sad Simon.

[trilobyte]

Speaking personally... I haven't yet read any of the several pages of replies, but to Bbadger's original post.... very well said!

There are as many different ways to burn as their are burners. So long as someone isn't violating one of the rules or jeopardizing the health/safety of other burners, I say leave people be. If you don't like how somebody's burning, don't spend time with them, or at their camp. If you feel someone's in violation of Burning Man's Turnkey Camping Guidelines, let Burning Man know (I'd recommend emailing [email protected] with the name/location of the camp).

Hell, I'd rather ban vigilantes and people who engage in public shaming and bullying on the internet than people who spend a lot of money on their camp or their burn.

[maladroit]

I don't care how much money is being spent, I do care that it's being spent to implement feudalism.

One Item for Burning Man 2018: "Got my ticket...almost forgot to find a place I'm allowed to camp! Today I swore fealty to Lord DJ Sporkington, in return I have a 10x10 plot next to the 70KW camp generator and only have to swab my lord's buttcrack twice a day! Luxury..."

[DrYes]

Hell, I'd rather ban vigilantes and people who engage in public shaming and bullying on the internet than people who spend a lot of money on their camp or their burn.

Damn right.

[forty_eight]

I thought Segway riders got ridiculed for riding Segways.

[Dr. Pyro]

I do care that it's being spent to implement feudalism.

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

[maladroit]

I do care that it's being spent to implement feudalism.

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

I'm not talking about the fun side of feudalism you see at the ren faire, no turkey legs and spray-painted plastic greaves, just the sociopolitical system.

[Lonesomebri]

Hell, I'd rather ban vigilantes and people who engage in public shaming and bullying on the internet than people who spend a lot of money on their camp or their burn.

Hell, me too !!!! As long as it's me deciding who the victim and who the villain is.

How about shaming people who MAKE alot of money on our burn?

[Just_Joe]

I don't care how much money is being spent, I do care that it's being spent to implement feudalism.

One Item for Burning Man 2018: "Got my ticket...almost forgot to find a place I'm allowed to camp! Today I swore fealty to Lord DJ Sporkington, in return I have a 10x10 plot next to the 70KW camp generator and only have to swab my lord's buttcrack twice a day! Luxury..."

I'd make one edit...
One Item for Burning Man 2018: "Didn't get Got my ticket...almost forgot to find a place I'm allowed to camp! Today I swore fealty to Lord DJ Sporkington, in return I have a ticket that was possibly obtained by unscrupulous means , a 10x10 plot next to the 70KW camp generator and only have to swab my lord's buttcrack twice a day! Luxury..."

[kiboy]

If you don't like how somebody's burning, don't spend time with them, or at their camp.

Seems like this may not have been an option. "You're not welcome in this camp or to use it's facilities unless you PAID GOOD MONEY. Can't you read, don't cross this barrier unless you $$$$ this means you."

"Oh but thanks for letting me wander into your place. Love it!"

That's not the Burning Man I remember. But it's been 11 years.

[kiboy]

fuck it.



for me to say i don't care would be a lie.



i care more than you can possibly even imagine.



with every fiber of my being, i love the man.



but fuck it.


i'm not even coming back next year, why should i even post my opinions here anymore...i shouldn't.


it's not my place...it would be disingenuous to participate if i'm not even going to attend.


it's your playa, you do with it as you will....i love most of you....and i will miss this place, and that place.


Auf Weidersehen, until we meet again.


and no, i won't be using any socks either, the puppet show is over.

Damn dooder. You mean I'm not going to get to meet you if I get a ticket? I had you on my bucket list for BM.

But even if you're dead serious about not returning I for one want to hear your voice. Once you have Burned you're a Citizen for life imo.

ONCE YOU'RE IN YOU CAN'T GET OUT.

[AntiM]

You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

I have your spirit painting. Flat Simon is forever a member of my camp. Doom. Doom. Doom.

[mgb327]

The bell cannot be unrung.

[666isMONEY]

Hell, I'd rather ban vigilantes and people who engage in public shaming and bullying on the internet than people who spend a lot of money on their camp or their burn.

if you don't want to be shamed, don't do anything shameful

[Ano]

I had an interaction with a PnP owner this year that really changed how I feel about these camps.

For the most part, I agree with the original post, barring a couple of specifics. I'd like to share my own mild experience, though -

When I came to Playa in 2011, it was the year of the great sell-out. Everywhere I went, people talked about the end of the event, and how it was doomed forever. The overwhelming rush of bucket listers, turnkeys, and worst of all, virgins were taking over the event and altering it for the worse.

I'm not going to lie, I was initially attracted to the party. I had been attending festivals all over California during college, and smaller events from before. Although I knew Burning Man could be something bigger, I was excited over goofy bullshit. I was digesting tons of videos that would showcase things like Opulent Temple, Root Society, art car parties, big fire, attractive people, the generic Burner crap that you see littering YouTube and social media. Guess what? I was hooked. I was drawn in by big parties. In fact, I chose my camping spot that year based on proximity to Opulent Temple - I had to catch Infected Mushroom, of course! Every so often I would catch a glimpse of the transformative aspects of the event - a piece of writing here, or a Halcyon blog there, but you know what, I was here to party.

That kind of went off topic, but back to the point - I came to get high and party. And you know what? I did neither of those during my first week of Burning Man. I was one of "them," one of the virgin tourists here to get high and dance... and I didn't. Instead, I got utterly lost on a completely different adventure, one where I broke through ten years of self-deprecation and depression, one where I recognized who I was and what I wanted, and one that utterly and completely changed who I was from the ground up. It was fascinating, devestating, frightening, and it wasn't what I wanted, but it was what I needed. Nowadays, I still get my party on, I still have my Friday of burn week blocked off for a certain party, I still chase vibes and beats, but I also volunteer 40ish hours during the week, I arrive early to build a camp AND the city, and I stay a bit late to moop, clean up, and help folks pack up.

The PnP organizer gave me the interesting fact that almost all of his campers are virgins, then there's a good bunch of 2nd years, but then, past two years, nobody stays with camp. They all go on to build their own camps, their own art, and fund their own things, and they all seemed to "Get it," from his perspective.

They might come with the wrong intentions, and perhaps might continue to come with the wrong intentions if they choose to put massive blinders on and ignore the obvious... but maybe, just maybe, this is their own way of entering our little weird ball of fire, and while we might not agree with it, it is what it is. We can either decry their existence, and make them feel unwelcome (I sure as hell did as a virgin in 2011...), or we can accept it, acculterate where possible, and ultimately, attempt to chew them up and spit them out, just like the playa has done individually to us. I wouldn't be where I am today if it weren't for veterans picking up my tattered corpse out of the dust and aiming me the right direction. Rather than going "pfft, you ride a segway? eat shit, burgin!," perhaps we could go, "Hey, nice ride. Ever think about adding a flamethrower to that? It's easy, all you need is..."

[pink]

this is not about money sham, this is about abuse of power, and piss-poor, untolerable behavior at the very least.


i, personally, do not want fucks like these in our community if the stories are true, and i'm afraid that this is the case.

maybe i'm wrong, and being close minded.....i don't think so though....


unless, perhaps, they come clean, and apologize to the community that they wish to be a part of.


otherwise.....fuck em'.


seriously.

This.

[kiboy]

ANO

Well that's all very good to hear and well worth having them if that's really the case. And if that's really the case overall then the thing to do would be to educate and engage and if necessary monitor these P&Ps. Let them know they need to participate as a camp with the rest of the city.

Because I really don't care if someone pays and can afford to pay 50 grand or more to be at the man if they contribute to the vibe of Burning Man in a way that benefits us all. I want them here then. The more the merrier as long as that solo burner with just a grand or less to spend doesn't get left out.

[maladroit]

I don't care how an individual decides to how to act at Burning Man. Placement worries enough about the interactivity requirement, we don't need to have Vibe Contribution Police. I will admit to occasional flashes of annoyance but I can make myself think "burn your burn and I'll burn mine."

I have a problem when someone is telling someone else how they should act at Burning Man. And that looks like what the PnP camps are doing. Bringing in ticketed employees that are made to implement a camp-wide interaction policy rather than burning their own burn. Or else. On another level they are also telling their customers how to act. They are providing a Burning Man Experience on rails, keep your head and limbs inside the vehicle at all times! Wear this costume, give this gift, ride this bike, interact with these particular humans we have paid not to upset you.

[DrYes]

Hell, I'd rather ban vigilantes and people who engage in public shaming and bullying on the internet than people who spend a lot of money on their camp or their burn.

Hell, me too !!!! As long as it's me deciding who the victim and who the villain is.

How about shaming people who MAKE alot of money on our burn?

Like who? United Site Services? I like to have the porta-potties cleaned up and emptied, personally. CostCo, because so many Burners buy supplies there? Kodiak, from whom I purchased a $650 tent this year?

What I hear is a lot of outrage, but not a lot of clarity over what exactly. Don't like people making money off the Burn? Ok. Define what "making money off the Burn" means so we can have a real discussion about it? Clearly there is not a single person at BM who can say "Nobody made money off me at BM" so it can't be about whether someone is making money off you or not.

I agree with the OP that a lot of this just seems like wealth resentment. Nobody complained when the plug n' play camps didn't aim at wealthy people (see Green Tortoise). It's only once they started providing camps out of the reach of most of us that the outrage started.

[maladroit]

Always with the Shit Man Argument.