Playa Lung ??!!??!!!???

[phil]

As is often posted on this ePlaya section, the chemical composition of the playa has been determined here:

http://www.foresight.org/Conferences/MN ... tt1/#Sec61 in Table 2. Only the column headed "BRP" is the playa, as noted in the text following Table 2. Make of the contents whatever your hysteria requires; my hysteria fails to kickstart itself after reading the list of ingredients.

If you don't like what's in the playa, don't go. I got a cold and sore throat the week before Louise and I left for the playa. The sore throat disappeared a couple of days after I got there. My experience then is that the playa powder cured my sore throat, basing my opinion on the same circumstances as those who got coughs and sore throats after arriving and blamed it on the playa powder.

[BBadger]

If you don't like what's in the playa, don't go. I got a cold and sore throat the week before Louise and I left for the playa. The sore throat disappeared a couple of days after I got there. My experience then is that the playa powder cured my sore throat, basing my opinion on the same circumstances as those who got coughs and sore throats after arriving and blamed it on the playa powder.

Maybe it's the dry air? That is assuming you came from a more humid climate though. People used to be prescribed to come out West to alleviate their lung-related illnesses (e.g. Doc Holliday).

[Simon of the Playa]

My experience then is that the playa powder cured my sore throat

me too.


we need to start charging more for this shit.

Burning Man, Come for the Dirt Rave stay for the Dust Spa.

[theCryptofishist]

*sigh*
Reaction to the dust is idiosyncratic. I wouldn't suggest breathing it year round, and having dust masks available is good, but if we are talking about a week's exposure, especially a week with few white outs, you are probably okay. Work with your doctor if you have serious questions.

[itaintwhatitseems]

*sigh*
Reaction to the dust is idiosyncratic. I wouldn't suggest breathing it year round, and having dust masks available is good, but if we are talking about a week's exposure, especially a week with few white outs, you are probably okay. Work with your doctor if you have serious questions.

and you're the same jack@ss who's husband was airlifted out how many times from BM???? I wonder how much your burn has cost tax payers over the years? Hopefully the county/state billed your @ss when you got home.

[gyre]

Fallout from open air nuclear testing and the material used in abrasive cutting wheels?
How bad can that be?

[BBadger]

Time to plonk fail-troll itaintwhatitseems.

[Simon of the Playa]

*sigh*
Reaction to the dust is idiosyncratic. I wouldn't suggest breathing it year round, and having dust masks available is good, but if we are talking about a week's exposure, especially a week with few white outs, you are probably okay. Work with your doctor if you have serious questions.

and you're the same jack@ss who's husband was airlifted out how many times from BM???? I wonder how much your burn has cost tax payers over the years? Hopefully the county/state billed your @ss when you got home.

you are dead meat, asshole.

my apologies to BBADGER for disparaging meat in any way, it was a metaphor.

[Roberto Dobbisano]

oh my.

i hope this troll is smart enough to spoof his IP address...


because you know, otherwise...






just sayin'.

[H.G.Crosby]

eh, there is software that can finger out that too...

[itaintwhatitseems]

*sigh*
Reaction to the dust is idiosyncratic. I wouldn't suggest breathing it year round, and having dust masks available is good, but if we are talking about a week's exposure, especially a week with few white outs, you are probably okay. Work with your doctor if you have serious questions.

and you're the same jack@ss who's husband was airlifted out how many times from BM???? I wonder how much your burn has cost tax payers over the years? Hopefully the county/state billed your @ss when you got home.

you are dead meat, asshole.

my apologies to BBADGER for disparaging meat in any way, it was a metaphor.

I'm over at the Royal Motor Lodge in Reno if you and fish head want to meet. I'm the dude with the wife-beater shirt and beer bottle in hand.......

[Roberto Dobbisano]

Ah.....i see.



you must be a real DICK then...

[H.G.Crosby]

the wife beater tipped us off, we don't even have to trace it.

[tpot]

HI All,
My BF and I returned from the 2014 Burn and this is our version of "Playa Lung" and treatment.

Our symptoms:
The day after the temple burned (9/1), my BF and I both had very sore throats. I thought it was strange we both felt sick at exactly the same time and it made me think this was environmentally related (dust) rather than a cold. I developed laryngitis type symptoms the next day (e.g. hoarse throat, dry, intermittent loss of voice for 2-3 days) but I felt fine (e.g. no aches, pains, or fever). My BF started coughing the next day (productively, e.g. with mucus) and kept blowing his nose like his sinuses were irritated. He was much worse than I. I was on the Playa for 9 days and he only 5. I started to Google dust related illness and discovered "Playa Lung" and found our symptoms described by the theory. We tracked our progress. My sore throat lasted six days but my hoarse through last (lower voice) lasted about 8 days and I developed a "productive" cough but no sinus issues. His cough has not gotten worse but not much better two weeks later. We both took over the counter cough medicine on our worst nights of coughing (three nights straight) which helped substantially. My cough improved considerably to where on day 10 I felt better with virtually no symptoms. However, I relapsed on day 13. My sinuses developed irritation like his. I felt a pressure on my lungs and could not breathe well and coughed more. I have congestion in my head and I feel worse than ever.

Our treatment:
It is now 9/15/2014, two weeks later. My BF went to the doctor and was diagnosed with Walking Pneumonia, which is contagious, and given anti-biotics. The doctor did not give him an X-ray. He does not feel like he has Walking Pneumonia (http://www.webmd.com/lung/walking-pneumonia) but does have a terrible cough. Because I was feeling better than got worse, I went to the doctor on day 14. Because I had childhood asthma and reported the pressure to my lungs, the doctor ordered a steroid breathing treatment on the spot in the clinic (which looked like this http://www.hamptonregional.com/getpage.php?name=AT ) and a Chest X. My chest X-ray came back negative and my lungs "looked fine". However, he diagnosed me with Acute Bronchitis not Walking Pneumonia. I was given Azithromycin for the bronchitis and both Prednisone and Ventolin inhaler for the asthma symptoms. He thinks "with the Prednisone I will feel better in a day. The anti-biotics should kick in five days".

My Doctor's statement on Playa-Lung: I told my Doctor about Burning Man and the theory around Playa Lung. After he reviewed all my symptoms and reviewed the X-ray, he asked me where I had heard of Playa Lung.. I took him to this website. We discussed a lot since there are three things going on--a sore throat--possibly a response to the dust, my chest breathing issues and asthma, and what appears to be cold like symptoms. He said he would not "diagnose me officially with Playa-Lung" but he thinks "I developed a respiratory response to the dust in the desert which ended up causing the Bronchitis". He said that environmental exposure to fine particulate matter can cause both bronchitis and pneumonia. He thinks because I was a childhood asthmatic (I have not had symptoms in 10 years or more though), he thinks my "history of asthma" is coming into play. He thinks I also "developed a cold" Post-Playa, which is not related to the symptoms, "and adding insult to injury". I think he is right.

Therefore, having tracked the Playa-Lung issue, I think Playa-Lung is not an illness per-se but a condition. I think we are exposed to irritants on the Playa (particulate matters) and if we inhale too many we give ourselves irritation. With rest, I think it will go away on its own. If you have any compounding factors e.g. cold and/or asthma or perhaps a really bad exposure to the dust, I think our body is going to react by coughing it out.

Other: My doctor asked me if the in-clinic breathing treatment helped. To be honest, I don't think so. Being a childhood asthmatic, I remember steroid based treatments instantly opening my lungs and feeling better. I felt like I was inhaling the treatment and my lungs felt the same during, right after and now three hours after. I feel better psychologically with the diagnosis and anti-biotics. I have a feeling if I went to the doctor a week ago, nothing would have been prescribed as I was feeling better and coughing less. I am glad I waited to see if treatment was necessary.

Costs: My co-pay at the doctor's office was $30, three medicines prescribed were $52 total, plus the chest-Xray ($175??) plus breathing treatment ($50??) which I have not been billed for yet. FYI: Prior to Burning Man, I looked into an optional travel insurance package for $52 for Burning Man with CSA but I declined it. In hindsight, I regret not getting it. http://www.csatravelpro.com/ because this issue would have been covered. If you have any history of respiratory illness, I suggest getting the travel insurance. This was my fourth Burn and I had no issues like this prior but I did start to get complacent about wearing my head scarf which also probably made it worse.

Hope this is helpful.

[Canoe]

those that have an issue with dust in general or with specific components of the dust blowing on the playa, be it the fine clay or other soil components (SiO2, Al2O3, quartz, micas, calcite, feldspar, vermiculite, illite, and kaolinite), aquatic micro-fauna eggs or dead body parts, bacteria normally on the playa, bacteria deposited by migratory birds, bacteria blown in off of surrounding land or the bacteria in the water that the water trucks spray on the dusty BRC roads.

There's a reason you're not supposed to run behind them and get sprayed by that water. It's not potable water in them.
It was covered by Burning Man Update: The Jack Rabbit Speaks > Volume 17, Issue #11 > January 11, 2013

It contains bacteria which could make you sick,

Check out this post and the one right below it. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=55846#p841258

The latest Environmental Assessment for the 2012 permit is now out and it has some interesting info about the water source for dust suppression. ...
Total Coliform 1,732.9 mg / 100 mL
Escherichia Coli (e. Coli) 11.0 mg / 100 mL
Fluoride 8.4 mg/L

So when you're running naked behind those water trucks, keep your mouth (and other orifices) closed!

5,507.9 pounds of E. Coli bacteria spread on to the playa each year at burning man

So on the balance of probability, would you attribute your experience more to an irritant based response to dust, or to the biologicals & bacteria in that dust?

It's been covered before. Lots of threads & posts. Google search often works better than using the eplaya box on the upper right.

[kittyrodriguez]

I'm still coughing up playa. I do enjoy the raspy jazz singer voice I have now, though.

[Canoe]

The Playa provides?

Just make sure you don't try to sing full voice - you could do yourself harm.

[kittyrodriguez]

The Playa provides?

Just make sure you don't try to sing full voice - you could do yourself harm.

Ha. I don't actually sing. But now I sound like I do. Thanks playa!

[unjonharley]

Today smoke rolled in from a forest fire 65 miles (as the crow flies) away..

At times the visibility was less than a half mile on the city streets..
I was working in the yard and didn't notice for a couple of hours.. Now my lungs are sore..

[^Rhino!]

As a burner/physician, 'playa lung' has become my current fascinoma. The question is whether playa dust inhalation only results in just short term upper respiratory irritation from dust, or are the particles of dust small enough to end up in the alveoli where they might cause pnuemoconiosis. No way to tell yet, and I'm not trying to make people paranoid, just a little more cautious than what I'm seeing.
In terms of the acute cough people get with fever etc. that sounds like just a bronchitis that your Dr might treat with antibiotics, inhaler and possibly prednisone if you're very wheezy. If anyone has gotten a CBC with a differential I'd be curious if they have higher numbers of eosinophils.
As far as long term exposure to playa dust, and pnuemoconiosis, that might just be showing up (if at all) in some of the long term burners who never used a mask for ten years plus. If any of you creaky old timers who have never worn a mask, have gotten a chest x-ray recently, I'd love to see what the radiology report showed - especially re. "fibrotic changes, nodular infiltrates or calcification of hilar lymph nodes." I have to admit that a good part of my own paranoia comes from the process of building my own house, during which I'm doing all the stone work. The diamond blade I use to score my stone creates a cloud of the real deal, and it reminds me too much of the same density as playa dust - ie. fine enough so that it floats easily in the air without settling very fast.
The bottom line is : wear a good two band dust mask suitable for drywall work. Fabric won't filter the particles that have the most dangerous size. Use your fabric to cover your mask if you're worried about looking more stylin. Viva la playa!

It's a complex problem. The only people that have died of non-occupational pneumoconiosis have been in the Sahara (2 cases) and the Negev (1 case), according to the CDC's own Morbidity and Mortality Index, There were 300 cases of something similar, 'Valley Fever" that occurred in Simi Valley after the Northridge earthquake, which stirred up fungal spores in the dust created from landslides.

There are two things that impress me about the playa dust: the source of the alkalinity and the primary range of particle sizes. The alkali is due primarily to calcite, NOT gypsum. I did ICP spectrophotometry, wet-chemical analysis, petrographic microscope analysis and x-ray diffraction of a sample I collected near the Man in 2010, and reported the results in BRC this year at a lecture I gave at Earth Guardians. The primary particle size range from hydrometer analysis is a fine silt, in the .001 - .002 mm range.

Oh, and by the way, my wheezing stopped with a couple of puffs of my Albuterol inhaler once I got off-playa.

I still have about a half kilo of sample. Any questions that I can answer before next year?

[robbidobbs]

The fastest way to get playa lung (painful breathing, burning sensation in the chest, raspy voice) is by yelling in a dirt storm. Guess what I do all fucking day, especially in dirt storms? Yes I have dirt mask, but I'm moving pretty fast out there. I realized not a few times how often I am needing to talk, even casually, at full volume.its a rough planet, BRC.
Fortunately I have a bullhorn and PA to alleviate the stress on myself. Tough shit on those in sound range. I'm usually saying something informative, or just getting my job done. I love amplification!
I'm nearly entirely recovered. Back to speaking in soft, placating tones.

[unjonharley]

Lungs hurt and blood in the nose this morning... From a forest fire miles away..
Weather man calling for rain tomorrow after noon.. Never coughed once on the or after the playa..

[dana]

It's a complex problem. The only people that have died of non-occupational pneumoconiosis have been in the Sahara (2 cases) and the Negev (1 case), according to the CDC's own Morbidity and Mortality Index,
The primary particle size range from hydrometer analysis is a fine silt, in the .001 - .002 mm range.

?

I would take that info from the CDC with a large grain of salt. For example we tend to do sketchy reporting on deaths unless they are associated with an occupation.
For example there is an unknown number of non-occupational deaths during the dust bowl era but it is estimated to be in the thousands.
http://geol105naturalhazards.voices.woo ... dust-bowl/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_pneumonia
Then there is the problem of sketchy reporting. Currently a lot of these deaths could easily be reported as merely "chronic lung disease, COPD or pneumonia" Most of the time we simply don't do the kind of detailed postmortem exams that might reveal silicosis/pneumoconiosis as the actual underlying cause. (I know this because I work regularly with coroners and write up a lot of death certificates. Its just extra work and expense.)
The other reason I'd be particularly suspect of that kind of statistic is that folks don't normally subject themselves to large quantities of dust outside of work exposure. BM is a unique situation.
Interestingly one of the occupations that is at risk for pneumoconiosis is farmers. They do nothing more than raise dust with a tractor plow, which when you think of it doesn't sound like much - just episodic exposure for a short period every year but continued over many years.

That particle size sounds about right for causing problems.
http://annhyg.oxfordjournals.org/conten ... 1.full.pdf
http://www.medicinejournal.co.uk/articl ... 5/abstract


Oh yeah, some guy wanted to have a private conversation after he got tired of all the bitchy weirdness from people like Simon on this (and other) threads. He sent me this link. Supposedly this is now part of the standard warning from the BLM??? Not sure if this is the right link but it did have a brief blurb on exposure to dust.
https://www.blm.gov/epl-front-office/pr ... ng_Man.pdf

contingency plans including BRC's separate contingency plan for an extreme weather event.
The playa dust includes both gypsum, an alkaline dust, and silica, a known carcinogen. These become airborne during high wind events and when the crust of the playa is broken through surface disturbing activities. Event participants would be at risk of inhaling these particulates. Participants are made aware of the potential for high wind events that cause "white out" conditions and methods to reduce exposure, such as the use of dust masks and goggles. Potential impacts to offsite receptors would be lower than that of participants due to dilution and deposition.

[^Rhino!]

I would take that info from the CDC with a large grain of salt. For example we tend to do sketchy reporting on deaths unless they are associated with an occupation.
For example there is an unknown number of non-occupational deaths during the dust bowl era but it is estimated to be in the thousands.
http://geol105naturalhazards.voices.woo ... dust-bowl/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_pneumonia
Then there is the problem of sketchy reporting. Currently a lot of these deaths could easily be reported as merely "chronic lung disease, COPD or pneumonia" Most of the time we simply don't do the kind of detailed postmortem exams that might reveal silicosis/pneumoconiosis as the actual underlying cause. (I know this because I work regularly with coroners and write up a lot of death certificates. Its just extra work and expense.)
The other reason I'd be particularly suspect of that kind of statistic is that folks don't normally subject themselves to large quantities of dust outside of work exposure. BM is a unique situation.
Interestingly one of the occupations that is at risk for pneumoconiosis is farmers. They do nothing more than raise dust with a tractor plow, which when you think of it doesn't sound like much - just episodic exposure for a short period every year but continued over many years.

That particle size sounds about right for causing problems.
http://annhyg.oxfordjournals.org/conten ... 1.full.pdf
http://www.medicinejournal.co.uk/articl ... 5/abstract


Oh yeah, some guy wanted to have a private conversation after he got tired of all the bitchy weirdness from people like Simon on this (and other) threads. He sent me this link. Supposedly this is now part of the standard warning from the BLM??? Not sure if this is the right link but it did have a brief blurb on exposure to dust.
https://www.blm.gov/epl-front-office/pr ... ng_Man.pdf

contingency plans including BRC's separate contingency plan for an extreme weather event.
The playa dust includes both gypsum, an alkaline dust, and silica, a known carcinogen. These become airborne during high wind events and when the crust of the playa is broken through surface disturbing activities. Event participants would be at risk of inhaling these particulates. Participants are made aware of the potential for high wind events that cause "white out" conditions and methods to reduce exposure, such as the use of dust masks and goggles. Potential impacts to offsite receptors would be lower than that of participants due to dilution and deposition.

You take the CDC's data with a grain of salt.....an attempt at a pun that went awry there?

I grew up around the other silent killer in the Appalachians with wheezing coal miners suffering from brown lung and black lung. Those are different, but still they kill.

The lab data didn't indicate gypsum. Sure, it's there, but in much smaller quantities than are indicated by the BLM (THAT you CAN take with a grain of salt) The thing about gypsum is that it is dissolved in water, and the infrequent downpours that occur on playa translocate it downwards in playa sediments, it's not on the surface where the particulate action takes place. Calcite is the primary alkalai.

I've only covered the inorganic constituents of the dust, in other words, the mineral component. I've looked at aeolian deposits and aeolian depositional systems for years as a geologist, with the loesses of the Midwest, consolidated aeolian sands and silts of rock units, and the occasional volcanic ash that's out there. The amount of dust thrown in the atmosphere at times in geologic history is immense. Imagine the denuded landscape of the Ordovician, it's easy to see why the only terrestrial aeolian dust deposits remaining are from sabkhas where the dust adhered to a wet surface. The submarine deposits of dust are confined to the volcanic ash layers that occur (some with huge areal extent during the Middle Ordovician and hence serving as marker beds in drilling activities). I invite anyone here to comment on any organic constituents of the dust, and thank you for your contribution.

[tahiti_treat]

Got it this year, for the first time. Mostly recovered, though I'm still coughing occasionally.

[dana]

No, not intentionally. Puns are the lowest form of humor. (although I do like nerdly humor...)

OK, so medically speaking as far as the dust constituents, we divide pneumoconiosis and pneumonitis (the acute reaction) into different sources of inhaled dust - silica giving you silicosis but there are other classifications for different kinds of non-mineral organic matter (like hay dust with a possible mixture of molds and organic matter). So some of the people with 'playa lung' may be reacting to the organic matter.

Or maybe they just got a nasty cold from exposure to so many people, lots of alcohol and little sleep for a week.
Or a combination....

[Savannah]

I'm still coughing up playa. I do enjoy the raspy jazz singer voice I have now, though.

I'm getting sick and tired of mine!

I didn't lose my voice at all during the first 3 or 4 Burns, but at every single one of them after that--yes. *sigh* I'll admit it: I have never been fond of wearing masks . . . but wearing them or not wearing them hasn't seemed to make a difference. Greeter shifts make my voice much worse, but I changed departments and still no luck. So yeah--2 weeks off the playa and my voice is only 50% returned. I've been doing tea with honey, but maybe I could step that up . . . and do some vinegar gargles or something.

I visited the doctor for a checkup last week and she heard me talk & said " . . . Do you HAVE to go to the desert?"

And I looked at her like this and said "Well . . . . . YES."

And she said "Okay, Okay."

[GreyCoyote]

If you change your environment radically, inhale gallons of dust (of any type), party like Dogs own fool, invert your sleep schedule, cut your diet in half and replace it with junk, drink enough booze to float the Queen Mary, and do all this while 70,000 people from all points of the globe are packed within a stones throw of each other, you shouldnt be surprised when your body reacts a wee bit.

[dana]

I have never been fond of wearing masks

Most of the time its just a couple hours during those afternoon dust storms. Not too bad. My first burn I wore nothing and got sick. After that I wore masks when needed and have done fine.
I guess I just got used to using safety gear. Plugs and earphones both together for shooting or chainsaws. I switched to a full face helmet for kayaking and I feel a lot more aggressive and confident and last weekend I took my mtn. bike to a ski area and wore full body armor for the first time. It felt good. I see dust masks in the same light - extra junk to deal with but it makes me more comfortable in the long run.

But my ultimate solution will be to hold up inside a trailer with AC during the PM storms and catch up on sleep. Just need to get one of my vintage rigs finished. (someday...)

[theCryptofishist]

There were 300 cases of something similar, 'Valley Fever" that occurred in Simi Valley after the Northridge earthquake, which stirred up fungal spores in the dust created from landslides.

Valley Fever is alive and well and a real on-going problem in the San Joaquin valley. It's something that we note about projects in those areas, where there's going to be a lot of ground disturbance during construction.