Therapy, psychology, and all that jazz.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:38 pm

No expectation at all my sweet.

I flexible to do whatever it takes to help!

Lonesomebri · Post by **Lonesomebri** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:40 pm

FIGJAM wrote:I'm interested in getting to the point, since my only reward is another happy, rational person in the world!!!

Look dude, I've had the parts for a bucket swamp cooler in my basement for over 3 years, still not put together. Do you really think there is hope for progress here?

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:41 pm

Absofuckinglutly!!!!!

I could be wrong, but I'm not uncertain.

kiboy · Post by **kiboy** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:13 pm

FIGJAM wrote:I'm pretty good.

Anybody can PM me and we'll talk on the phone, but I won't waste your or my time.

I have tools for most situations and will be happy to help.

Help equation = You do 80% while I do 20%!!!

"You do or you don't, you will or you won't! There are no excuses!!!"

I'll bet your phone isn't ringing off the hook.

kiboy · Post by **kiboy** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:14 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:
FIGJAM wrote:I'm interested in getting to the point, since my only reward is another happy, rational person in the world!!!
Look dude, I've had the parts for a bucket swamp cooler in my basement for over 3 years, still not put together. Do you really think there is hope for progress here?

Could I borrow those if you're not going to use them? I'll put it together. My problem is getting started.

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:18 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:
FIGJAM wrote:I'm interested in getting to the point, since my only reward is another happy, rational person in the world!!!
Look dude, I've had the parts for a bucket swamp cooler in my basement for over 3 years, still not put together. Do you really think there is hope for progress here?

I don't know about that, but I do know that the only thing your doc got right was #4. But I can see why you were dissatisfied.

It seems there are lots of people that had bad therapists/doctors/psychiatrists on the board.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:30 pm

Like, there bad if they you the truth huh?

kiboy · Post by **kiboy** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:52 pm

Could you rephrase that?

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:04 pm

unjonharley wrote:Like, there bad if they you the truth huh?

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. A good therapist is a lot like a good salesman (Oh god, I know I'll get he'll for that) in that they need to know how to listen and how to read bosy language and communicate the truth in a way that the client can relate to at a time they tuit the client is ready to hear it. And that's not easy to do and it's hard, if not impossible, to teach. Which is why there are a lot of bad salesmen and a lot of bad therapists.

kiboy · Post by **kiboy** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:17 pm

You're right imo. I was one of those successful salesmen and reading the customer was key. Then it's presentation in a way they can relate to. It's dangerous because if you're feeling unscrupulous you can sell just about anyone anything. That wasn't really my way. I'd sell based on empathy or snark depending on what I was reading. Some people you really want to help and some you want to stick it to. That's why I'd have made a lousy therapist. Plus I'm not long on patience.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:31 pm

it sort of strikes me, it's more akin to hiring a grandparent, uncle, or best friend.

You sit down, and they ask the questions, someone who really loves you would ask. Someone who is not worried about your reaction, because your relationship is strong enough to weather any such issue.
You tell them things you'd maybe not tell your parents, lover, boss or kid. and you feel confident in their confidence and discretion.

They tell you what they see and hear in you, and maybe offer one (of many) options, aimed at helping.
They don't judge what they hear, they love you for who you are, flaws and all.

Together, you reach an opinion,and perhaps a course of action
Together, you march forward in life, feeling valid, and loved.

kiboy · Post by **kiboy** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:02 pm

Of the several therapists I saw back in the day I got that experience from only one therapist really. It's not just being validated but being in the presence of someone thoughtful, intelligent, empathetic, and who has worked on their own shit to a large degree. Honestly, unfortunately, I think there are plenty of lame therapists out there selling their wares.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:09 pm

He told you to read Freud? Seriously? Freud was a quack. And unscrupulous with it. We are grateful for his idea of the unconscious (or The Unconscious, if you prefer) and he was right on about projection, but the rest of his stuff can probably be pulped.

kiboy · Post by **kiboy** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:19 pm

I'm not so sure I agree with the term quack. He was a pioneer in modern psychotherapy. He got a lot wrong of course being a pioneer but as you pointed out his contributions were huge. He opened up some major areas of inquiry that were foundational. Where he had trouble is where we mostly all do. He couldn't see his own shit. He was paranoid and neurotic with lots of hangups imo. but then so am I.

ranger magnum · Post by **ranger magnum** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:27 pm

I'm lucky....when I'm feeling out of sorts, I head into the shop and build cars. That's the best therapy for me.

dana · Post by **dana** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:43 am

kiboy wrote: The problem here is that I'm getting only one side of the story. I learned long ago that nobody is totally innocent.

We do tend to make that assumption don't we? But it doesn't take much considering to see the problems with it - the abused child, random violence, acquaintance rape. Just adds to stigmatizing a victim. (Sometimes they are ignoring their contribution but sometimes it really is much less obvious.)

Personally that particular issue forced me to look at the causation beyond merely the surface actions into a much more complex and nebulous depth. A lot of people don't want to go there...

And to take it a bit further, yeah maybe the Captain did nothing more than ignore certain signals (and I'm kind of extrapolating from one of my own fucked up catastrophes here). But after I totally digested it all (years) I figured out some huge fundamental changes that I wouldn't have come to otherwise.

kiboy · Post by **kiboy** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:58 am

I'm speaking of adults of course. Children are usually innocent in relation to the relationships with the adults around them. And in specific I'm referring to romantic relationships between adults. I've had the time and maybe the maturity to go back over a lifetime of failed relationships. At the time they ended I was pretty pissed and pretty sure I'd been dealing with a real bitch or at least an unreasonable person. However now my conclusion is that most of the time I was more than half the problem. Sometimes much more. Usually not maliciously but still I was the one who was shutting down or shutting out. That's a bitter pill now. Live and learn they say?

dana · Post by **dana** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:06 am

Sorry Kiboy I added (a bit further) right as you were answering that addresses a bit of what you were saying. I should say those changes I came to had very little to do with actions but everything to do with who I am at my depth and that whole fiasco was the kind of explosive impetus I needed to get there.

Definitely learn from mistakes. But a cool thing I learned is to also spend some time digging into something that was amazing, an incredible success. Then adding that to your image and digesting how you did it that way. A lot of people just focus on the failures. Elliot was just telling me something about this with the kind of cognitive therapy he does.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:11 am

"Any party in a conflict is supplying at least 20% of the fuel to keep it going."

tatonka · Post by **tatonka** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:17 am

ranger magnum wrote:I'm lucky....when I'm feeling out of sorts, I head into the shop and build cars. That's the best therapy for me.

I do the same with motorcycles , or art ... keeps my mind right

dana · Post by **dana** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:26 am

FIGJAM wrote:"Any party in a conflict is supplying at least 20% of the fuel to keep it going."

Yeah I definitely agree. But I'm trying to make a trickier argument. Sometimes the fuel comes down to something about us that acquiesces/allows the abuse we receive. (In particular I can think of abused women who feel like they can't leave as the common case, but men also.) Its not in their actions and I wouldn't just say inaction ('hey just leave'. Sometimes people get stuck in these freak shows because of shame, they don't think they deserve any better, or they never learned to take authority for their lives. Those just some brief examples. There are all kinds of ways we passively allow shitty or wonderful realities.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:58 am

I would just add that a many people stay in those relationships for fear of the unknown.

There is a weird sense of security in an abusive relationship because the victims know the routine, but if they leave they don't know what will happen.

This happens even in the most extreme cases.

Fear of the unknown is a very powerful force if you don't learn to overcome it!

kiboy · Post by **kiboy** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:44 am

tatonka wrote:
ranger magnum wrote:I'm lucky....when I'm feeling out of sorts, I head into the shop and build cars. That's the best therapy for me.
I do the same with motorcycles , or art ... keeps my mind right

For me it's dogs, hiking, playing music, and maybe the not so occasional illegal substance.

Aurelia · Post by **Aurelia** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:49 am

Perfect !

xoA.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:44 am

Of course, some people just don't forgive the father of psychiatry for saying that all those girls molested by their fathers only imagined it, and it was a dear wish that it would happen.

Fucking asshole...

kiboy · Post by **kiboy** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:34 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Of course, some people just don't forgive the father of psychiatry for saying that all those girls molested by their fathers only imagined it, and it was a dear wish that it would happen.

Fucking asshole...

Agreed. But that's true of men in general.

Including politics, religion, and just about everything else. Men deny being shits.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:56 pm

But not all men make it okay for other men to molest their own daughters.

kiboy · Post by **kiboy** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:39 pm

Well of course not. I said in general. But a lot of sexual violence is deemed acceptable by men in general in this day. And the subjugation of women in general. Just look at the disparity of equal pay for equal work between men and women. Men as a whole have not put an end to this shit for various reasons.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:01 pm

I simply have no respect for the man, and the only thing that's every been proven about his work is transference.

kiboy · Post by **kiboy** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:01 pm

Well I have no need to defend him. He's hardly my favorite in the field. I respect your right to hate his fucking guts if you so choose.

Therapy, psychology, and all that jazz.

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