Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:37 am

Simply Joel wrote:
DVD Burner wrote:You are a truely a lost cause.

We shall call you the write off.
we?

you mean i have attained "persona non grata" status...

for the love of humanity, can we get a fucking edit function back?

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:03 am

http://www.indybay.org/archives/archive ... gory_id=48

the whole fucking occupation by US is a war crime

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:12 am

U.S. War Crimes Ambassador Reviews Saddam Hussein's Criminality
http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/2000/09/iraq-000918.htm

Iraqi leaders demand Saddam trial

The US said Saddam Hussein offered no resistance
Iraqi leaders say they want Saddam Hussein put on trial in Iraq for crimes against humanity following his capture.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 319389.stm

Suppose the United States goes to war against Iraq and is victorious, and at the war’s end, Saddam Hussein is in the custody of the U.S. or one of its allies. What would happen to him? Under these circumstances, it is almost certain Saddam would face some form of war crimes prosecution. Indeed, recent statements from the Bush Administration suggest that some thought is already being given to the different options for trying Hussein and his lieutenants as part of a post-war settlement.

There is no shortage of evidence that Hussein is responsible for acts that are crimes under international law. Indeed, there are few people in the world against whom a stronger set of charges could be lodged. Human rights activists have been campaigning for him to be indicted for some time. But there are several different forms that such a trial might take – and there is a real danger that, in the aftermath of a US-led invasion of Iraq, a poorly conceived trial could be counter-productive for the cause of international justice.
http://www.crimesofwar.org/onnews/news-saddam.html

World
Evidence Sought of Crimes Under Saddam

All Things Considered, April 30, 2003 · Human rights groups are assisting U.S. forces gathering files, testimony, and physical evidence that could be used to bring crimes against humanity charges against senior officials of Saddam Hussein's regime. NPR's Chris Joyce reports.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=1248297

i'll see your (false) war crimes and raise you with (valid) crimes against humanity.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:30 am

right..so we match Saddam's brutality with some of our own....

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:37 am

cowboyangel wrote:right..so we match Saddam's brutality with some of our own....

well, actually, we (the coalition) are fighting a global terrorist threat which is currently operating from Sunni-held Iraq... and despite your objections, it (the war) is the correct fight, against the correct enemy about 11-12 years after it should have been done.

but, you won't agree with me, and it doesn't really matter whether we agree or not... a democratic Iraq will be achieved.

failure is not an option.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:54 am

ya and let's kill em all if they don't like our brand of democracy!

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:58 am

cowboyangel wrote:ya and let's kill em all if they don't like our brand of democracy!

more along the lines of...

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.

'cause most folks out there are demanding freedom, and that ain't what the terrorist have in mind.

i am going to lunch, take care all.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:01 am

Famous insurgent. According to his thinking, he opposed the US agression upon his homeland as an unwarranted invasion. He and his cohorts are respected and honored by the invading country today.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:00 am

cowboyangel wrote:

Famous insurgent. According to his thinking, he opposed the US agression upon his homeland as an unwarranted invasion. He and his cohorts are respected and honored by the invading country today.

the south was a second place finisher in the war of unsuccessful secession.

and your observation only goes to prove that once combat is over, both sides can come together unified for the common good...

let's see what conflict liberated african-americans?

oh yeah, the one where the south came in second place.

CA, you aren't inadvertently making a point to infer the USA would be better off with slavery, are you?

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:09 am

cowboyangel wrote:

Famous insurgent. According to his thinking, he opposed the US agression upon his homeland as an unwarranted invasion. He and his cohorts are respected and honored by the invading country today.

If it's understandable that among almost the entire south today that it was ok and 'honorable' to defend their homeland against a foreign invading army trying to impose it's government on them, why is it so hard for anyone to extrapolate that the Iraqi resistence has a similar view of itself? Now southern troops fighting in the 'US' army can begin to understand what it must have been like being a yankee invader......

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:10 am

Here is the example of leadership i make every effort to emulate with my words and deeds.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:14 am

ya and he was in favor of retaining slavery if it would mean preserving the union!

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:14 am

so, um, on to more general topics, I'm reading this fabulous book by Robin Wright on militant Islam. Examining the militancy of some (and i stress some) Shia in particular (though it isn't limited to Shia), she quotes the European Ambassador to Kuwait in, god, must be about 1984: 'Who can do anything? If we shoot at it, it will only aggravate it.'

The point is that while only a very small percentage are militants or terrorists, there is some cohesiveness within the Shia community across races and bordes. And as the actual values which are advocated - not necessarily those which are reflected in bombings and hijackings and the like - are hard to refute from a theological standpoint. She argues that there is broad support among Shia (and some Sunnis) for Islamic governments in the gulf states. (This doesn't necessarily indicate an acceptance of the tactics we've seen in places like Iran. People who support a lot of what Khomeini stands for aren't necessarily comfortable with the violence there. Yet some insist that, were their countries to have a similar revolution, they wouldn't make the same mistakes.)

Fascinating phenomenon. I wish i could explain it as well as she does. Of course, that would require quoting the entire book...

Still, that European ambassador's quote is, i think, very telling. Look at wat we're doing now. We're shooting at an 'insurgent issue.' Can't remember right now - i'm assuming that much of the Fallujah insurgency is Shia? Does anyone remember?) What have we NOT learned in the past 2 decades? Much, i think...

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:15 am

Simply Joel wrote:

Here is the example of leadership i make every effort to emulate with my words and deeds.

..the only 'good' republican I'm aware of......

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:19 am

cowboyangel wrote:If it's understandable that among almost the entire south today that it was ok and 'honorable' to defend their homeland against a foreign invading army trying to impose it's government on them, why is it so hard for anyone to extrapolate that the Iraqi resistence has a similar view of itself? Now southern troops fighting in the 'US' army can begin to understand what it must have been like being a yankee invader......

oh please, mr i never spent a day in the military or defending my country.

nothing in what you have written indicates any semblance of critical thinking beyond the same old tired rhetoric of the left.

i simply can't imagine how you could knowledgeable express any empathy for a soldier's experience.

imagination... that is the crux of the matter, you have to imagine what a soldier thinks and feels, because you have no personal experience.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:24 am

Rules for thee but not for me

When you're in power, apparently, you can just change the rules whenever you don't want to follow them anymore. That's what House Republicans appear to be doing to protect their leader Tom DeLay in the event the indictments that seem to be contagious in his circle of Texas friends and colleagues spread to him. Last night, House GOP members proposed changing congressional rules to allow leaders to stay in their posts even if they're indicted by state grand juries. Today, the rule change is expected to gain approval at a closed door meeting.

The best part: This rule was adopted more than 10 years ago when House Republicans wanted to show how corrupt Democrats were and that Republicans "held themselves to higher standards than prominent Democrats," as the Washington Post put it. With trouble brewing in DeLay's circle of political associates now, though, Republicans are quick to move to change the rule so they don't actually have to hold themselves to the same standard they applied to Democrats.

Democrats and congressional watchdog groups are criticizing the proposal, but it probably won't do any good. Nancy Pelosi said last night, according to the Post: "If they make this rules change, Republicans will confirm yet again that they simply do not care if their leaders are ethical. If Republicans believe that an indicted member should be allowed to hold a top leadership position in the House of Representatives, their arrogance is astonishing."

-- Geraldine Sealey

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:30 am

November 17, 2004
House Republicans Try to Protect Leader's Position
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

"There is no indication that DeLay, a 57-year-old Texan, will be indicted in connection with a Travis County, Texas, campaign finance investigation."

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:39 am

Simply Joel wrote:
cowboyangel wrote:If it's understandable that among almost the entire south today that it was ok and 'honorable' to defend their homeland against a foreign invading army trying to impose it's government on them, why is it so hard for anyone to extrapolate that the Iraqi resistence has a similar view of itself? Now southern troops fighting in the 'US' army can begin to understand what it must have been like being a yankee invader......
oh please, mr i never spent a day in the military or defending my country.

nothing in what you have written indicates any semblance of critical thinking beyond the same old tired rhetoric of the left.

i simply can't imagine how you could knowledgeable express any empathy for a soldier's experience.

imagination... that is the crux of the matter, you have to imagine what a soldier thinks and feels, because you have no personal experience.

oh christ Joel...here ya go again with "your not a soldier I am nya nya na na na" stuff

I have been under the gun in my GP days, had Soviet troops point AK-47's at me , been picked up by the Richmond Police for sabotaging Chevron's polluted effluent into SF bay, Trespassed at Kwajelein Star Wars base to hang banners denouncing "Sttar Wars", had A Soviet Destroyer tail us for 8 hrs on the high seas. Fucked with Japanese gill neters under their net winches in the Behring Sea at night.......I think I know a little more than you attribute to me about what it must be like being under the gun

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:44 am

cowboyangel wrote:
Simply Joel wrote:
cowboyangel wrote:If it's understandable that among almost the entire south today that it was ok and 'honorable' to defend their homeland against a foreign invading army trying to impose it's government on them, why is it so hard for anyone to extrapolate that the Iraqi resistence has a similar view of itself? Now southern troops fighting in the 'US' army can begin to understand what it must have been like being a yankee invader......
oh please, mr i never spent a day in the military or defending my country.

nothing in what you have written indicates any semblance of critical thinking beyond the same old tired rhetoric of the left.

i simply can't imagine how you could knowledgeable express any empathy for a soldier's experience.

imagination... that is the crux of the matter, you have to imagine what a soldier thinks and feels, because you have no personal experience.

oh christ Joel...here ya go again with "your not a soldier I am nya nya na na na" stuff

I have been under the gun in my GP days, had Soviet troops point AK-47's at me , been picked up by the Richmond Police for sabotaging Chevron's polluted effluent into SF bay, Trespassed at Kwajelein Star Wars base to hang banners denouncing "Sttar Wars", had A Soviet Destroyer tail us for 8 hrs on the high seas. Fucked with Japanese gill neters under their net winches in the Behring Sea at night.......I think I know a little more than you attribute to me about what it must be like being under the gun

so you are a tresspassing eco-criminal, big deal.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:45 am

big diff tween criminal and hero my dear friend

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:52 am

cowboyangel wrote:big diff tween criminal and hero my dear friend

yes, i am aware of the difference....

http://www.publicinterestwatch.org/pdfs/PIW_report.pdf

Green-Peace, Dirty Money:

Tax Violations in the World of Non-Profits

1.0 Overview

The American public recently has been inundated with media tales of greedy corporations manipulating or break the law for their own financial gain. The names Enron, Tyco and WorldCom have become synonymous with corruption, and legislators and regulators from both sides of the political aisle have called for corporate heads to roll in the name of protecting the public from harm. But precious little has been said about the equally murky depths of the world of non-profits.

Despite the fact that charities, foundations, and other tax-exempt groups often boast multi-million dollar operating budgets or endowments, non-profits thus far have escaped the same level of scrutiny given their corporate counterparts.

Public Interest Watch (PIW) examined the financial records of a number of non-profit organizations and uncovered the same sort of corruption and illegality that prompted the fall of the house of Enron.

This report focuses on Greenpeace, arguably the most recognizable and visible name in the nonprofit world and the most egregious offender we reviewed.

Greenpeace’s organizational structure consists of multiple corporate entities that engage in blatant self-dealing, laundering funds through Greenpeace’s tax-exempt corporation. These funds are then passed to other Greenpeace corporations that use them for non-exempt – and often illegal – purposes. Such actions carry severe legal implications, specifically in the context of federal tax law that governs non-profits.

This report details what Greenpeace is doing and why it is illegal. And perhaps more importantly, it serves as a wake-up call for legislators, regulators, and any person or organization that contributes to or supports non-profits. Non-profits are actively engaged in financial misdeeds as serious as the worst of the corporateworld. They therefore deserve the same level of scrutiny and criticism as well.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:54 am

nothing compared to Dynergy, Enron, Delay, etc etc

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:56 am

hmmmmmmmm??????

heros or criminals?

hmmmmmmmm??????

http://www.marinelog.com/DOCS/NEWSMMIV/MMIVJul23a.html

July 23, 2004
Alaska charges Greenpeace with environmental law violations

Alaska State prosecutors filed charges against Greenpeace, Inc., Capt. Arne J. Sorensen and ship's agent Willem Jan Beekman in Ketchikan yesterday alleging violations of two state environmental laws. The information charges that the defendants were criminally negligent for operating in state waters without an oil discharge prevention and contingency plan and for failing to file proof of financial responsibility for oil discharge damages.

On July 14, the Department of Environmental Conservation's Environmental Crimes Unit learned that the Greenpeace vessel, Arctic Sunrise, had entered Alaska waters without the required oil spill prevention plan and proof of financial responsibility.

The vessel can carry 128,000 gallons of fuel and lubricants. According to the information, Greenpeace's ship agent Mr. Beekman agreed the vessel would remain on anchor in Ketchikan pending compliance with state law; however, on the morning of July 14th the vessel left port while still in violation.

Following the Kuroshima oil spill in Dutch Harbor, Alaska's Legislature passed a law requiring nontank vessels over 400 gross tons demonstrate they have resources available and committed to respond to a spill.

"There is no such thing as a paperwork violation," DEC Commissioner Ernesta Ballard said. "Compliance is not a mere technicality. We require evidence of spill response capability because we know that any ship can hit a rock at any time. The vessel relocated from a safe anchorage to navigate remote, high risk, narrow Southeast waters in traditional subsistence use and environmentally sensitive areas during peak salmon runs; without care or consideration for the catastrophic impacts that would occur from failure to have the necessary resources to initiate a response."

DEC referred the results of the investigation to the Department of Law for prosecution. Each charge is a class A misdemeanor carrying a maximum sentence of one year in jail and a $10,000 fine for individuals, and a maximum penalty of $200,000 for organizations.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:01 pm

cowboyangel wrote:nothing compared to Dynergy, Enron, Delay, etc etc

rather subjective of you, dear CA.

http://www.cdfe.org/greenpeace_piw.htm

A non-profit watchdog group today filed a complaint with the Internal Revenue Service against Greenpeace, accusing the organization of illegally soliciting and transferring millions of dollars in tax-deductible contributions.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:01 pm

you must be getting this stuff from the "I hate GreenPeace" website...there actually is a thing like that....

again..mere pin pricks compared to the travesty that is the Bush admin

http://www.bushlies.com
http://www.bushwatch.com/bushlies.htm

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:10 pm

cowboyangel wrote:you must be getting this stuff from the "I hate GreenPeace" website...there actually is a thing like that....

again..mere pin pricks compared to the travesty that is the Bush admin

http://www.bushlies.com
http://www.bushwatch.com/bushlies.htm

here we go again...

George W Bush is the problem
George W Bush is responsible for all our sins.
If it wasn't for George Bush, we'd be much better country.

what an unmitigated load of HORSESHIT that thinking is.

i wish you could simply come up with some different answers to your rhetoric... but hey, if George W Bush is the problem, what is the solution?

maybe you could define the problem a little more clearly than simply saying in different degrees of hysteria...

"it's Bush's fault"

by the way, if anyone cares to look back on this and other threads... all i have requested by my tormenters is to develop an alternative plan for what Bush is doing.... it is that simply, come up with a comprehensive workable plan that you could "sell" to the average american voter.

and believe me, i have been waiting for some nuggets of wisdom yet have been left wanting for a damn long time.

what say ye, critical thinkers from the left?

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:25 pm

why don't you just cool off and join the neo-nimrod drinking society

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:44 pm

cowboyangel wrote:why don't you just cool off and join the neo-nimrod drinking society

i guess your memory is failing...

long ago, i said.... "i never want to be a member of an organization that would actually have me as a member"

and yes, i know it isn't original, but it does fit the occasion.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:13 pm

now I know you're a closet Marxist because ole Groucho said that one.....

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:11 pm

cowboyangel wrote:right..so we match Saddam's brutality with some of our own....

You know what's Ironic is how the U.S. has killed as many as Sadam in less time.

Oh yeah......uuummmm.....

Looks like Falujah is having trouble again. I thought Falujah was under control.

I think it will get to the point where the U.S. is gonna get a can of fucking woop ass sometime soon. (where did the British go?)

Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....

correction

hmmmmm, me thinks something is fishy about GreenPeace