Should PnP have to pay full price for Sherpia Tickets?

[Chowski]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and bring up a topic which got me considerable push-back from the regulars on this board when I spoke of it a few months ago - namely, the pre-sale ticket give-away, sorry, "directed sale" to returning placed mega-camps. When I suggested a few months ago that guaranteeing blocks of tickets to Friends of Those who Matter didn't seem to jibe with the principal of Radical Inclusion (some being more pre-includable than others) I was laughed at, criticized and deemed "bitter" for suggesting that ensuring SOME people get tickets was not within the spirit of the ten principles.
It seems to me, now that the converstion has turned to Plug and Play and Sherpas and observers vs. participants, I might be owed, if not an apology, at least a second opportunity to have a discussion. Certainly these Sherpa camps wouldnt be able to exist if they were not guaranteed blocks of tickets and chunks of land well in advance of we, the unworthy. They would not have the financial certainty needed to order infrastructure, hire Mistresses of Merriment, coordinate flush-toilet vendors, etc, if not for a guaranteed block of tickets.
So again I say unto You, do away with the Pre-sale ticket grab for Important People, and these PNPs will have a MUCH harder time operating. If your Thwomp Thwomp village suffers a bit for a few years, or doesn't happen at all, you can always return to the way you used to burn. Small, with your friends, in a tent. Radically self-reliant.
Of course that's not going to happen. There are too many people who make decisions who are surrounded only by those who live in playa Villages. There is a feedback loop within the Burning Man structure where the decision makers really only get their ideas reinforced by those who benefit from the pre-sale structure - the regional leaders, the RV compounds, the massive villages - these are the groups whose concerns and ideas are heard by the leadership, and ultimately catered to. Small camps, tent campers, those not "in the loop" have no voice and are not seriously considered, so ultimately, we will end up with more and more observers as a side effect of the ever-increasing catering to the Important People at the expense of everyone else.

[Elderberry]

I've always thought the idea of pre-sale tickets for theme camps was a good one, and our camp has benefited from them. It is difficult to plan a larger camp without knowing you will have enough members with tickets to pull it off.

However, now that massive PnP camps are included in that sale (assuming they are), it may be time for some fine tuning.

[666isMONEY]

VIP & sherpa presale tickets (did we ever find out if those presale tix sold out?)

weekend raver tickets

[gaminwench]

Chowski, I'm part of 3 'smaller contributing Theme camps/MV's/Art projects' - less than 40 members in each - and know that our mighty leads are consulted regularly about the needs, opinions and feedback of our camps.
We get DD, although the numbers are quite small.

Please don't paint the Directed Distribution program with the broad brush of PnP disdain.
I know that DD is important to all of the groups I work with to ensure core participation and long term planning.

If PnP/turnkey is to continue, I believe it should be separated from regular PARTICIPATORY camps/projects;
it is not the same thing, and shouldn't be treated as such.

[Ratty]

Not if they are using their own facilities, they wouldn't be placing any more burden on the existing infrastructure.

USS is WAY overburdened with requests to 'suck the shit' from private privies. If you hear Robbie Dobbs through a bull horn in your sleep like I do, You know that every private porta potty is a drain on the system.

I'm 100% against p&p. They shouldn't get any air when it comes to buying tickets and they shouldn't get placed. What the hell is the Borg thinking? Who needs em?

[AntiM]

Chowski, I'm part of 3 'smaller contributing Theme camps/MV's/Art projects' - less than 40 members in each - and know that our mighty leads are consulted regularly about the needs, opinions and feedback of our camps.
We get DD, although the numbers are quite small.

Please don't paint the Directed Distribution program with the broad brush of PnP disdain.
I know that DD is important to all of the groups I work with to ensure core participation and long term planning.

If PnP/turnkey is to continue, I believe it should be separated from regular PARTICIPATORY camps/projects;
it is not the same thing, and shouldn't be treated as such.

I agree. My camp gets a whopping TWO DD tickets (offered three, did not need all of them). And we provide a shaded tent and bedding and water for ONE overseas burner, no dues. Yeah, my P&P is really doing it wrong.

These tickets do not all go to mega-camps or giant art, but they do go to those with a proven track record. My project/theme camp, small as it is, has a solid reputation built over the years. Anyone else can do the same. Fill out the forms, start the process. It is possible.
Fuck up grandly, and you do not get a second invite. I surely hope that will apply to the current clusterfuck.

[forty_eight]

burning man: it's a paysomeonetodoitforyouOCRACY.

payforitticipation

seems legit

[andy]

Why do you believe that PnP camps get DD allocations? In 2013, tickets were available on the open market for about $700. This year it was higher, maybe $1,000-$1,500. These camps probably can get all they need on eBay & StubHub at these prices, which is a relatively small part of their cost.