How many people went to Burning Man this year?

[Just_Joe]

It looks like there could have been more people this year. A lot more people.
Starting in 2014, volunteers were not counted as part of the population cap.
I don't remember seeing this posted anywhere and found it interesting.

The 2013 Stipulations read:
"The maximum authorized population (also referred to as the “population cap”) at any point in time during the event is 68,000 participants (as per the definition of “participant” in the Environmental Assessment). "
The 2013 Environmental Assessment defines participants:
"The population includes all attendees of the event, including paid participants and volunteers. The population does not include government personnel, Humboldt General Hospital emergency service providers, vendors and contractors."

According to the 2014 Stipulations:
"The maximum authorized population... is 68,000 paid participants. (emphasis theirs) The maximum authorized population (also referred to as the “population cap”) at any point in time during the 2014 event is 68,000 participants. The population cap does not include volunteers, government personnel, Humboldt General Hospital emergency service providers, vendors and contractors."

Not including volunteers in the count seems like a slippery slope. I wonder how many there were? What level of volunteering was required and how were they excluded from the count?

[BoyScoutGirl]

This doesn't answer your question, but bear in mind that the overwhelming majority of volunteers are paying participants. Fully comped tickets are the exception, not the rule.

[Ratty]

Being there early I met a lot of people with free entry. Construction types that were building the city against the elements. They 'called in' anyone that could do the work. (As a volunteer). The man had no head. It was too heavy for the crane to lift. They got a bigger crane. The designer of the souk was very particular and slowed the building. At least that's what the construction guys said every night. All those guys and wives were in free. The Gate had quite a few free people too. Of course the med team didn't pay. They get paid. The DPW guys on 'G' street are always there before me. In free and not paid. Oh and guys in free at the airport. Oh yeah and 30 people to correlate the entry packets. 70,000 books, maps, stickers etc.... I buy a ticket.

[theCryptofishist]

Of course the med team didn't pay. They get paid.

Some of the med team gets paid, that is Ramparts and certain higher level managers of the volunteers. Many others pay for their tickets and volunteer their time. I think this is a good balance, actually.

[unjonharley]

Many of the folks that build the city leave Sunday or before..

I see the dust encrusted cars, vans, and overloaded trailer in the on coming traffic
Two weeks out there is enough for some..

[Rice]

I know that there were more than 2 people at Burning Man this year. A little time on Google (C) using the words "burning man blm permit 2014 attendance" will give you an idea of the population cap. The actual number does not include the department volunteers (PG&E, DPW, Airport, Center Camp, Rangers, Medical, etc.) who have earned their tickets ...

Is it a problem that some people earn a ticket by volunteering massive amounts of time at the previous year's burn? If the volunteers that run gate, perimeter, airport, dpw, etc do not get in the event simply would not happen. There are certainly stipulations on how to earn a ticket (x - shifts during burn week, y - graveyard shifts, etc. if you miss a shift you lose credit from a previous shift and have to make it up). I was on-playa this year for 12 days and worked 15 shifts, 7 of them graveyard. I don't think I did met the criteria for getting a free ticket, since I had to leave the playa before the weekend (I left on Friday, burn week).

Clarification on terminology:

• Pre burn, is the time up until the gate officially opens
• Burn week, is the week that the burn happens & the gates are open
• Burn weekend, is the Man Burn and Temple burn weekend (saturday & sunday)
• Post burn, is the time after the Temple burn

Some of the GP&E volunteers are on-playa for 6-10 weeks, they do crossover work with DPW and the Playa Restoration team. I don't have the stones to be on-playa that long!

If you have spent a few years volunteering for a department, working before and during the burn, you can judge - based on actual understanding on how the department works and what is involved in making BM happen. Otherwise you are just making uninformed suggestions, based on external observations... {blah}

[Just_Joe]

... A little time on Google (C) using the words "burning man blm permit 2014 attendance" will give you an idea of the population cap. The actual number does not include the department volunteers (PG&E, DPW, Airport, Center Camp, Rangers, Medical, etc.) who have earned their tickets ...

Re-read for clarity. The post merely pointed out that there was a significant difference in the way that the population was counted, resulting in a (likely) significantly larger population in 2014 over 2013, even though the headline number (68,000) was static. For that matter, the stips dont say anything about "earned their ticket", "paid full price for a ticket volunteers" or "paid for a staff ticket volunteers". It just says "volunteers".

Is it a problem that some people earn a ticket by volunteering massive amounts of time at the previous year's burn?

Not for me. I'm very grateful. How about you?

...... you can judge - based on actual understanding on how the department works and what is involved in making BM happen. Otherwise you are just making uninformed suggestions, based on external observations... {blah}

I've been known to be obtuse, but WTF do you think I was judging? What suggestion was I making?

[unjonharley]

The OP showed it takes a hell of a bunch of people to build and run a city..

Good on them..

[Rice]

Was not writing to insult or attack. that was not my intention.

[Ratty]

A year ago I tried to work enough to earn a reduced price ticket. My thinking was it would guarantee me the opportunity to buy a ticket. I couldn't do it. I went begging to Toppless Deb in the Greeter Camp. "Please. Let me out of my commitment." I couldn't work EVERY DAY. I admire those that can work enough to earn a ticket. It ain't easy.

[unjonharley]

A year ago I tried to work enough to earn a reduced price ticket. My thinking was it would guarantee me the opportunity to buy a ticket. I couldn't do it. I went begging to Toppless Deb in the Greeter Camp. "Please. Let me out of my commitment." I couldn't work EVERY DAY. I admire those that can work enough to earn a ticket. It ain't easy.

I think you did a lot this last BM.. Being a greeter and working with Rob-a-Dob all those hours..

[Ratty]

Yeah. That and a nickle...........

[theCryptofishist]

All of them.

[andy]

"The actual number does not include the department volunteers (PG&E, DPW, Airport, Center Camp, Rangers, Medical, etc.) who have earned their tickets ..."

Actually, I think it does - my understand is that the BLM cap is based on safety, road capacity, and desert fragility, and the BLM doesn't care how many people are ticketed vs low-income vs free, just the total number of warm bodies. I do know that the ORG pays BLM a daily fee for everyone on playa each day, including staff. In fact, early arrival passes actually cost the Org since every day costs them something like $4 per person (that was the number a few years ago, might be different now).

----------------------------

well, I guess I was wrong - on further reading "volunteers" are excluded but all "paid attendees" are counted, so at least some of those folks are not in the cap- but I'm not sure that all DPW, Airport or Rangers, for instance, are free. Most BM volunteers pay for their own tickets.

[trilobyte]

You're comparing apples and oranges, Joe... of course they're not the same. The Environmental Assessment (apple) counts all the humans (as all such studies should), because it's studying the human impact on the environment.

The population numbers that the BLM uses for permitting the event (orange) has never counted all the humans, the slope has not gotten any more or less slippery than it's been for longer than I've been participating in the event.

[Lonesomebri]

...The Environmental Assessment (apple) counts all the humans (as all such studies should), because it's studying the human impact on the environment.
The population numbers that the BLM uses for permitting the event (orange) has never counted all the humans, the slope has not gotten any more or less slippery than it's been for longer than I've been participating in the event.

The 2013 Stipulations read:
"The maximum authorized population (also referred to as the “population cap”) at any point in time during the event is 68,000 participants (as per the definition of “participant” in the Environmental Assessment). "
The 2013 Environmental Assessment defines participants:
"The population includes all attendees of the event, including paid participants and volunteers. The population does not include government personnel, Humboldt General Hospital emergency service providers, vendors and contractors."

According to the 2014 Stipulations:
"The maximum authorized population... is 68,000 paid participants. (emphasis theirs) The maximum authorized population (also referred to as the “population cap”) at any point in time during the 2014 event is 68,000 participants. The population cap does not include volunteers, government personnel, Humboldt General Hospital emergency service providers, vendors and contractors."

I realize this does not matter but I don't know, maybe I'm missing something. It looks like the description on how they count the people on the playa is different in the 2013 stipulation compared to the 2014 stipulation, the wording shifted the volunteers from the counted into the uncounted (who can say what they count as a volunteer), no figure from the BLM (orange) is ever mentioned in the quotes in the OP. And it says in the quote that the Environmental Assessment DOES NOT count all the humans if it excludes government personal, emergency, etc, not that that is a bad thing, or anything, other than it being what it is. That's my reading of the quoted 2013 Stipulation.

The 2013 Stipulations read:"The maximum authorized population(also referred to as the “population cap”) at any point in time during the event is 68,000 participants (as per the definition of “participant” in the Environmental Assessment). ".... The population does not include government personnel, Humboldt General Hospital emergency service providers, vendors and contractors."

Again, none of this matters, and it's all good what they are doing, and I have no complaints, but it simply looks like the way the "population" is figured changed between the two years, even it everything has stayed the same. Just weird how when stuff does change, it's made out like it ain't.

[TomServo]

A LOT more than 1999! Numbers don't bother me..it's the negative bullshit that gets leaked in with those numbers

[Elderberry]

Just weird how when stuff does change, it's made out like it ain't.

That's all part of the conspiracy.

[Lonesomebri]

Just weird how when stuff does change, it's made out like it ain't.

That's all part of the conspiracy.

Well thanks for discussing the issue dingleberry. What conspiracy are YOU talking about?
Even trying to talk simple numbers here, and the troll/mod has to add some kind of bs, the depth of the shallowness is astounding.
There is no conspiracy. There is reality. It's something adults can discuss. Thanks for (not) participating.
Don't you have some kind of spam/feather/plug and play you need to defend?