How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

[unjonharley]

I'm trying to cut the BMORG some slack.
The Burning Man Project mission is to bring Burning Man to the world.
In attempt to do that, the founders probably decided that being in bed with venture capitalists, "movers and shakers", etc would be a good move.
Allocating tickets to the "more important" people may have been an experiment. If so, it failed and is now coming back to bite them on the ass.
What has emerged from the community is a feeling of betrayal and it needs to be addressed.
The community brings the Art, brings the volunteerism, brings the Theme Camps, brings the Mutant Vehicles. The community *is* Burning Man.

So, an open question to Burners?????

Are there burners that plan to bring less to Burning Man if turn-key continues as it is?????

Absolutely, the Burners who don't get a ticket because the spread of for-profit camps has not been checked, and the tickets go to non-participants who contribute nothing.

That also.. But that was not the question..

[Lonesomebri]

Here is an explanation of how PnP Casio's get placed from the Burning Man blog.

http://blog.burningman.com/2014/10/buil ... et-placed/

Oh, I do love how the comment section of this blog is going. I still (don't) wonder what the overall view of the community's input was to the Bmorg. With this open response from the community it is easy to see why the lackeys wanted to clamp down on this line of open discussion among the rank and file. Good thing we got eplaya to keep the discussion alive !!!!!!

"Are there burners that plan to bring less to Burning Man if turn-key continues as it is?????"

Absolutely, the Burners who don't get a ticket because the spread of for-profit camps has not been checked, and the tickets go to non-participants who contribute nothing.

"That also.. But that was not the question."

Correct, it is called an answer.

[danibel]

I do have issues with the commodification camps. They are selling the burn. Plain and simple. Call it whatever you want, they make a profit off the event. And yes, BMORG does too, but they also deal with the shit storms of permits, portos, and resto. Without the ORG there would be no burn, but without commodification camps the burn would continue.

A second, larger issue for me, is the tickets and the EA's. Someone said they don't get EA's and I call bullshit. The circle of RV's that were across the street from us had EA's for drivers to drop off and set up. There is post in the blog comments of a letter where special ticket purchase opportunities are offered to special people. How many of those were sold? How many other tickets were sold outside of the open sale or STEP to accommodate the profiteers? How many scalped overpriced tickets were purchased on stub hub by these people? Feeding of scalpers is bad for us all.

[Ratty]

Lonesombri, Can I have that free sherpa? Send him to 530 and H. Silver van Blue banners. I hate to cook and moop.

[forty_eight]

It's also odd that they were telling people to camp over on the 3:00 side, but yet they placed a PnP on the 10:00 side.

Why do that?

[unjonharley]

It's also odd that they were telling people to camp over on the 3:00 side, but yet they placed a PnP on the 10:00 side.

Why do that?

Its just another doom and gloom conspiracy..

[forty_eight]

^ what conspiracy?

it might not be a big deal, but it did happen.

no real conspiracy about it.

sort of a 'do as i say not as i do kind of thing'

[unjonharley]

Who ever ""THEY"" are.. Are conspiring to tell us what side of the city to camp..

[forty_eight]

pretty sure it was in JRS pre-event

[Lonesomebri]

It's also odd that they were telling people to camp over on the 3:00 side, but yet they placed a PnP on the 10:00 side.
Why do that?

Its just another doom and gloom conspiracy..

Yes, both JRS and here on eplaya told the prols to camp over on the 3pm side. That's the reality of it.

Some folks here have no use for reality, they see that as a claim of a conspiracy, has to do with the limited plasticity of ancient solidified brains, inability to think for oneself, limited smarts. Pity is really the only response. But yeah, just because it actually happened, the oldster can't comprehend. Now he will ask some other worthless question and be confused that the answer isn't a question.....

[Lonesomebri]

And to sum up how some folks feel about stopping the commercialization of the play-

Re: Toward a PnP Code of Ethics and Best Practices
Postby Elderberry » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:22 am

"unjonharley wrote:Now! Let this thread die.."

Yes. Please!

Oh, it sure does not seem like the Bmorg is taking that advise as they clamor away on the blog making excuses and deflecting, nor the Citizens of BRC, as they respond. But who will listen to the voices of reason, defeat, capitulation and apathy? Keep at it guys......

[socks2]

With Jim Tananbaum who ran one plug and play and is on the board of Burning man do you really
think the bm.org will do anything at all. Bm.org and plug and plays breath from the same nose

[Elderberry]

If you think your ranting here, or anywhere else for that matter, will have any effect on the BMORG's decision, you are dillusional. Let it go already.

(said with mod hat off)

[lucky420]

No

[danibel]

If you think your ranting here, or anywhere else for that matter, will have any effect on the BMORG's decision, you are dillusional. Let it go already.

(said with mod hat off)

You started this thread! Did you think people would just read the blog post and let it die here? The commodification camps have struck a nerve and it's not going away.

[Elderberry]

If you think your ranting here, or anywhere else for that matter, will have any effect on the BMORG's decision, you are dillusional. Let it go already.

(said with mod hat off)

You started this thread! Did you think people would just read the blog post and let it die here? The commodification camps have struck a nerve and it's not going away.

Oh. I did, didn't I. (can't catch any fish without throuwing out the net) I also started this one: viewtopic.php?f=65&t=72673 (check it out)

[FIGJAM]

Will Chase Says:

October 30th, 2014 at 7:10 pm

Hey everybody, THANK YOU for these comments. I really do appreciate it. My intention for this post was to bring some facts into the discussion that I’d seen some people missing, and to see and hear what people were thinking and feeling. And you made your thoughts very clear, and we’re listening.

Like I said, part of my job is to keep my finger on the pulse of the community, and this conversation is part of that. I needed to hear exactly this input. This is great information and perspective to bring into our discussions about this issue, and they’re being read by everybody involved. So again, thank you.

I absolutely take your point about conflating the issue of virgins with turnkey camps … that wasn’t my intention, but since they often come up in the same conversation (XYZ people are screwing up Burning Man! We should keep them out!), I thought it made sense to combine them here. In retrospect, I should’ve broken the two topics out into different posts. My bad.

The big takeaway I’ve gotten here (and shared with the right folks at BMHQ) is that you’re a) not happy, and b) wanting to hear solid facts, answers and transparency with regard to Burning Man’s policies around turnkey camps. And I can tell you that’s in the works — we’re processing a number of moving parts here.

Lastly, I stand by what I wrote here. I believe deeply in the 10 Principles (I have kinda made it my life’s work), and I don’t want (and refuse) to see them eroded. And that includes Radical Inclusion. This stuff isn’t easy, but I believe we can work together as a community to solve this problem.

Thanks again. Pulse taken.

[Elderberry]

Will Chase Says:

October 30th, 2014 at 7:10 pm

Hey everybody, THANK YOU for these comments. I really do appreciate it. My intention for this post was to bring some facts into the discussion that I’d seen some people missing, and to see and hear what people were thinking and feeling. And you made your thoughts very clear, and we’re listening.

Like I said, part of my job is to keep my finger on the pulse of the community, and this conversation is part of that. I needed to hear exactly this input. This is great information and perspective to bring into our discussions about this issue, and they’re being read by everybody involved. So again, thank you.

I absolutely take your point about conflating the issue of virgins with turnkey camps … that wasn’t my intention, but since they often come up in the same conversation (XYZ people are screwing up Burning Man! We should keep them out!), I thought it made sense to combine them here. In retrospect, I should’ve broken the two topics out into different posts. My bad.

The big takeaway I’ve gotten here (and shared with the right folks at BMHQ) is that you’re a) not happy, and b) wanting to hear solid facts, answers and transparency with regard to Burning Man’s policies around turnkey camps. And I can tell you that’s in the works — we’re processing a number of moving parts here.

Lastly, I stand by what I wrote here. I believe deeply in the 10 Principles (I have kinda made it my life’s work), and I don’t want (and refuse) to see them eroded. And that includes Radical Inclusion. This stuff isn’t easy, but I believe we can work together as a community to solve this problem.

Thanks again. Pulse taken.

Ya, right. Like we can believe anything they say. We'd rather go on ranting and raving.

[unjonharley]

Will Chase Says:

October 30th, 2014 at 7:10 pm

Hey everybody, THANK YOU for these comments. I really do appreciate it. My intention for this post was to bring some facts into the discussion that I’d seen some people missing, and to see and hear what people were thinking and feeling. And you made your thoughts very clear, and we’re listening.

Like I said, part of my job is to keep my finger on the pulse of the community, and this conversation is part of that. I needed to hear exactly this input. This is great information and perspective to bring into our discussions about this issue, and they’re being read by everybody involved. So again, thank you.

I absolutely take your point about conflating the issue of virgins with turnkey camps … that wasn’t my intention, but since they often come up in the same conversation (XYZ people are screwing up Burning Man! We should keep them out!), I thought it made sense to combine them here. In retrospect, I should’ve broken the two topics out into different posts. My bad.

The big takeaway I’ve gotten here (and shared with the right folks at BMHQ) is that you’re a) not happy, and b) wanting to hear solid facts, answers and transparency with regard to Burning Man’s policies around turnkey camps. And I can tell you that’s in the works — we’re processing a number of moving parts here.

Lastly, I stand by what I wrote here. I believe deeply in the 10 Principles (I have kinda made it my life’s work), and I don’t want (and refuse) to see them eroded. And that includes Radical Inclusion. This stuff isn’t easy, but I believe we can work together as a community to solve this problem.

Thanks again. Pulse taken.

Ya, right. Like we can believe anything they say. We'd rather go on ranting and raving.

So the sum of this post is: we're processing a number of moving parts here and that includes Radical Inclusion..

[forty_eight]

It's definitely important to separate the virgin "issue", the rich/tech person "issue" and PnP issue. It lets the real grievance come to the surface - private for profit camps at Burning Man.

[FIGJAM]

I thought it showed that at least somebody is paying attention.

[Jackass]

It lets the real grievance come to the surface - private for profit camps at Burning Man.

Some folks are just cool with that

[H.G.Crosby]

i'll just leave this right *here*...

[media]

[Roberto Dobbisano]

10:20 in to it is where it gets "tasty"...

[Jovankat]

Something that has jut occurred to me, I don't remember seeing anything posted publicly about this turnkey placement being possible. If it's really something they're doing because it's in the public interest why couldn't they have been up front about it back when applications were happening? Also why is access to this application restricted to people who are already *connected*? It seems that to run a turnkey camp and get turnkey placement along with any other perks like the visits from the official BMOrg acculturators you need to be part of the cool kids club already. That's not very radically inclusive. Why didn't I or any other *regular* burners have the opportunity to apply for turnkey placement?

If official turnkey placement is going to happen it should be available to all* and the fact that it wasn't looks pretty bloody dodgy to me. It also adds further weight to the priority access to tickets thing. If opportunity to apply for the turn key placement was kept from us why should we trust that a turnkey ticket sale wasn't also kept a secret?

*Obviously whether or not turnkey placement should happen at all is debatable, I'm not saying it should happen just if it does it should probably be available to all

[jneilvindy]

I volunteer!

WAY worse gigs than Ratty's personal Sherpa out there I'm sure.

Providing I win the 2015 ticket lottery and am allowed to attend TTITD 2015.

I'm a great cook and I'm a MOOP monster.

Lonesombri, Can I have that free sherpa? Send him to 530 and H. Silver van Blue banners. I hate to cook and moop.

[Ratty]

Yeah! I win! I win Burning Man. My own Sherpa. Jneilvindy, We will have so much fun. When I was little I had a cat that I used to dress in petticoats and floppy hats. I can't wait. And you can sleep under the van, and fetch my beer, and make grilled cheese sammys. A good will be had by all.

[Sandstorm]

Why didn't I or any other *regular* burners have the opportunity to apply for turnkey placement?

I'm making assumptions when I say this: folks such as you and I didn't get an invitation to partake in the Turnkey Placement process because we're not monetarily wealthy enough to matter to the members of THE BORG and the BM BOD who make a nice profit off of the Turnkey Camps.

[Jovankat]

Sandstorm short of that question being answered by the BMOrg we're all making assumptions here

Something along those lines, although a little more involved, is what I suspect also. Although I am keen to hear different perspectives.

The thing is while you may be right that the vast majority of *regular* burners don't have the capital to be setting up a turnkey camp it would not surprise me in the slightest if there are at least some *regular* burners who do actually have access to that kind of coin, or have enough event planning experience to pull it all together on the budget generated by fees alone.

And if it really was an issue of us just not being able to afford it why did it need to be a secret? Not everyone can afford to bring a mutant vehicle but the application link is right there in everyone's Burner Profile still.

I think the lack of transparency suggests that it's not just about having the means it's about being adequately connected and that is very much the opposite of radical inclusion.

Another possible motivation for keeping it quiet could be they knew it would make the community mad so they felt they had to hide it which is kinda an admission of guilt.

Or perhaps they don't want to be overrun with turnkey camp so they don't want to risk encouraging people by having the application open to all. But if that's the case it must mean they agree that these camps are not good for the event....

I cannot think of an explanation for why some people were secretly given the chance to apply for turnkey placement that doesn't include the BMOrg knowing that what they were doing was shitty.

[The Rod]

You know.. that's the fuck of it for me.

People always going on about things are always changing. "Accept it you whining hippies."

But it's the shady back-room deals that are kind of a big deal. They won't explain what or why they are doing. There's ton's of evidence that they know they are doing things that will piss (some of) us off.

Which is why they don't want us to know...


Just like any other city, the mayor and the council is taking bribes and selling their city. Fuck the small-folk.

This is why it hurts. It's supposed to be our city. Things are different here. It's not like the rest of the bullshit, commodified and corrupt society we live in. It's special.


No fucking way Jose. Silly me for believing the hype in the first place.