How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

[FIGJAM]

Sold out event?

Only 2 tickets per customer?

Then how can this happen!!! (note the date of purchase)

[Elderberry]

You know.. that's the fuck of it for me.

People always going on about things are always changing. "Accept it you whining hippies."

But it's the shady back-room deals that are kind of a big deal. They won't explain what or why they are doing. There's ton's of evidence that they know they are doing things that will piss (some of) us off.

Which is why they don't want us to know...


Just like any other city, the mayor and the council is taking bribes and selling their city. Fuck the small-folk.

This is why it hurts. It's supposed to be our city. Things are different here. It's not like the rest of the bullshit, commodified and corrupt society we live in. It's special.


No fucking way Jose. Silly me for believing the hype in the first place.

No. It is not like a city with a mayor. This is a function founded by and controlled mostly by one man. It is his. What he does with it is frankly none of your business or anyone else's for that matter. You either accept it and continue to enjoy the event or you just don't have to go.

This is the main reason that all of this bitching and moaning is mostly in vain--except for the fact that a good business man will probably listen to their customers if the ticket sales are effected adversely.

Other than that-- get over it and get with the program, or opt out. It's really that simple.

[Roberto Dobbisano]

i'll just leave this right *here*...

[media]

san francisco #4, huh...

[Simon of the Playa]

Other than that-- get over it and get with the program, or opt out. It's really that simple.

kiss my fucking ass.

[The Rod]

No. It is not like a city with a mayor. This is a function founded by and controlled mostly by one man. It is his. What he does with it is frankly none of your business or anyone else's for that matter. You either accept it and continue to enjoy the event or you just don't have to go.

This is the main reason that all of this bitching and moaning is mostly in vain--except for the fact that a good business man will probably listen to their customers if the ticket sales are effected adversely.

Other than that-- get over it and get with the program, or opt out. It's really that simple.

Yes, this is a function controlled by mostly one man (and a BOD). And I was mistaken about what it actually is. But No. I cannot agree with you that what he does with it is none of my business. You see, what seems to be the biggest issue of contention here is that this company appears to be operating under false pretenses. When a company is caught lying about what they are selling it becomes the costumers business.

They go on and on about the guiding principles (I think there's a definition of that word floating around somewhere if you're having a hard time figuring out what it means), participation, the most important contributors to the event being the participants, how they couldn't do it without all of us and blah blah blah. And then, they sell us a product. They produce the event, we buy tickets and they profit. Great fucking business plan. Except for the fact that they're lying to us. They are saying it's one thing, and selling us something else. They are being secretive about it.

People are figuring this out, and starting to ask questions. Mostly, whats happening here is people are asking for clarity. "You said this, but it looks like this, can you explain whats going on?" There seems to be a few people who are uncomfortable with this and want to call it bitching and moaning in vain.

And really, what the fuck are you doing going around starting threads on topics if you feel that the subject is not worth discussing and we just need to get over it? Couldn't just let this horse die already?

Kiss my fucking ass.

[Roberto Dobbisano]

No. It is not like a city with a mayor. This is a function founded by and controlled mostly by one man. It is his. What he does with it is frankly none of your business or anyone else's for that matter. You either accept it and continue to enjoy the event or you just don't have to go.

This is the main reason that all of this bitching and moaning is mostly in vain--except for the fact that a good business man will probably listen to their customers if the ticket sales are effected adversely.

Other than that-- get over it and get with the program, or opt out. It's really that simple.

Yes, this is a function controlled by mostly one man (and a BOD). But No. I cannot agree with you that what he does with it is none of my business. You see, what seems to be the biggest issue of contention here is that this company appears to be operating under false pretenses. When a company is caught lying about what they are selling it is the costumers business.

They go on and on about the guiding principles (I think there's a definition of that word floating around somewhere if you're having a hard time figuring out what it means), participation, the most important contributors to the event being the participants, how they couldn't do it without all of us and blah blah blah. And then, they sell us a product. They produce the event, we buy tickets and they profit. Great fucking business plan. Except for the fact that they're lying to us. They are saying it's one thing, and selling us something else. They are being secretive about it.

People are figuring this out, and starting to ask questions. Mostly, whats happening here is people are asking for clarity. "You said this, but it looks like this, can you explain whats going on?" There seems to be a few people who are uncomfortable with this and want to call it bitching and moaning in vain.

And really, what the fuck are you doing going around starting threads on topics if you feel that the subject is not worth discussing and we just need to get over it? Couldn't just let this horse die already?

Kiss my fucking ass.

Monsieur A-Rock, Je T'aime...

[GreyCoyote]

Turn key camps get placed by sending many dead presidents to talk to Larry. Simple fact. I DARE the BMOrg to deny it.

This is really simple math for me. Larry wasnt making enough. So he sold out. Then he got caught. And some of the Board too. Thinking that perhaps the whole thing might blow over if he ignored it, he tried playing The Waiting Game. When that didnt work, he sent us a couple of his stoolies to test the waters and dilute the rage with obfuscation. They died screaming AND WELL THEY SHOULD HAVE at the hands of the plebes. The rage continues, and it seems to be amplifying.

So now the Borg is in a tailspin. I cant wait to see what happens next. I love being lied to. I hear there will be a "special" JRS shortly to tell us how wrong we all are. That this "little bit" of commodification was reasonable, necessary, and important to our very survival. Our anger is a result of miscommunication, and of course the Borg will try to do better in the future.

What a crock of shit. The next time I hear the word "principles" come out of Larry Harveys snaggle-tooth mouth, I hope he chokes on his own vomit. Or someone elses. Its all the same to me. Once a weasel with a bad hat, always a weasel with a bad hat. The fact he didnt fire his profiteering board member(s) instantly tells me all I need to know. The Borg is rotted to the core. Burning Man is the new Disneyland. The only difference is Disney sells VIP tickets openly, pays a living wage to the production staff, and the rides are better. And I can buy stock in Disney.

New word for the Burner lexicon: "Principle$". Get used to hearing it, kids.

[Popeye]

You know.. that's the fuck of it for me.

People always going on about things are always changing. "Accept it you whining hippies."

But it's the shady back-room deals that are kind of a big deal. They won't explain what or why they are doing. There's ton's of evidence that they know they are doing things that will piss (some of) us off.

Which is why they don't want us to know...


Just like any other city, the mayor and the council is taking bribes and selling their city. Fuck the small-folk.

This is why it hurts. It's supposed to be our city. Things are different here. It's not like the rest of the bullshit, commodified and corrupt society we live in. It's special.


No fucking way Jose. Silly me for believing the hype in the first place.

No. It is not like a city with a mayor. This is a function founded by and controlled mostly by one man. It is his. What he does with it is frankly none of your business or anyone else's for that matter. You either accept it and continue to enjoy the event or you just don't have to go.

This is the main reason that all of this bitching and moaning is mostly in vain--except for the fact that a good business man will probably listen to their customers if the ticket sales are effected adversely.

Other than that-- get over it and get with the program, or opt out. It's really that simple.

No. BM (the non-profit) set up the for-profit corporation to own Burning Man (the event and profit making part of the Org). The event has a separate board than the non-profit although membership may overlap. Larry does not own the event, the non profit owns the for profit corporation that owns the event.
Larry is more like a mayor than an owner.

BTW someone started a petition to end comodification of BM. https://www.change.org/p/black-rock-cit ... ofit-camps
Check it out and sign if you agree.

[DrYes]

Sold out event?

Only 2 tickets per customer?

Then how can this happen!!! (note the date of purchase)

That's not the date of purchase. Note it's midnight on Monday. I suspect it's just when the ticketing service had the event marked down as starting.

Still freaking ridiculous, and I say that as someone who has no problem with turnkey camps.....as long as they get zero special treatment from the BMORG. No special ticket allocations, no placement, and no early entry passes.

[GreyCoyote]

Nice petition. I dearly hope The Weasel reads it.

Part of me keeps wondering if some direct on-playa action involving the "education" of the Commodification Camps might be helpful, too. You know: some good old-fashioned mentoring? As in "it takes a village to raise a decommodified Burner"

On that subject, I keep asking myself "What would DPW do"?

What, indeed....

[Lonesomebri]

No. It is not like a city with a mayor. This is a function founded by and controlled mostly by one man. It is his. What he does with it is frankly none of your business or anyone else's for that matter. You either accept it and continue to enjoy the event or you just don't have to go.
This is the main reason that all of this bitching and moaning is mostly in vain--except for the fact that a good business man will probably listen to their customers if the ticket sales are effected adversely.
Other than that-- get over it and get with the program, or opt out. It's really that simple.

Born serf says what? Hell, Larry was not in the porta-pottie wiping my ass, I did that on my own. But I suppose some of these sellouts can't sleep without a prayer to Larry and his dollars. Typical born serfs can't comprehend that we all make this world, not just the big boys. Has everyone shut up like you wanted Eldersellout? Has the problem dissolved? Ha, not everyone is a wimp like the born serfs. Keep at it, you and your royalty keep trying to spin it and only make it worse, so clueless about what makes humans tick. Keep at it. Hell, even the folks claiming the complaints against the sellout were all conspiracy talk, have started to come around. I guess the Bmorg gets the propagandist they pay for.....

Ps. I was the third person to sign that petition. Go to work boys......
https://www.change.org/p/black-rock-cit ... ofit-camps

[GreyCoyote]

Bri: you are seriously an asshole. (Dont ever change. Hehehe)

[Simon of the Playa]

ART IMITATING LIFE IMITATING ART IMITATING LIFE....


from the SF Guardian.


i've taken the liberty of replacing the words "San Francisco" with the words "Burning Man."


It isn't as if Burning Man hasn't seen a tech boom before. Burning Man's dotcom boom of 1998 to 2001 also led to significant displacement in Black Rock. But this latest one is focused on the city and visibly changing it faster. Many long-time Burning Man residents worry not only about being forced out of the city they love, but also that their city is being changed for the worse. Critics say that Burning Man's communities of alternative culture, ethnic or otherwise – the soil of its creative mojo and legendary social movements – are being turned into playgrounds for rich people. If Burning Man's soul is its social and economic diversity and status as a refuge for those outside the mainstream, then it is being lost.

Emerging in its place is the mostly white, male-dominated, monied monoculture of the tech industry and there appears no end in sight.

[FIGJAM]

No. It is not like a city with a mayor. This is a function founded by and controlled mostly by one man. It is his. What he does with it is frankly none of your business or anyone else's for that matter. You either accept it and continue to enjoy the event or you just don't have to go.
This is the main reason that all of this bitching and moaning is mostly in vain--except for the fact that a good business man will probably listen to their customers if the ticket sales are effected adversely.
Other than that-- get over it and get with the program, or opt out. It's really that simple.

Born serf says what? Hell, Larry was not in the porta-pottie wiping my ass, I did that on my own. But I suppose some of these sellouts can't sleep without a prayer to Larry and his dollars. Typical born serfs can't comprehend that we all make this world, not just the big boys. Has everyone shut up like you wanted Eldersellout? Has the problem dissolved? Ha, not everyone is a wimp like the born serfs. Keep at it, you and your royalty keep trying to spin it and only make it worse, so clueless about what makes humans tick. Keep at it. Hell, even the folks claiming the complaints against the sellout were all conspiracy talk, have started to come around. I guess the Bmorg gets the propagandist they pay for.....

Ps. I was the third person to sign that petition. Go to work boys......
https://www.change.org/p/black-rock-cit ... ofit-camps

I thought that petition would fill up faster than the tickets sell out, but it seems it's taking a few days.

[Elderberry]

Still freaking ridiculous, and I say that as someone who has no problem with turnkey camps.....as long as they get zero special treatment from the BMORG. No special ticket allocations, no placement, and no early entry passes.

This is pretty much where I stand on the issue.

But, unfortunately, if BMORG is doing this to make more money from the event, they know that the only way turnkey camps can survive is to get special treatment. If you're selling a service/product for $13 to $17,000.00 you need to know beforehand that you can deliver, and the only way for that to happen is if they know they will have tickets and placement.

[Simon of the Playa]

If you're selling a service/product

then you are goddamn, motherfucking, son of a bitch ass licking cocksucking DOING IT WRONG.

[H.G.Crosby]

down boy.


temper.


you're frothing at the mouth too, that scares people.

[Ratty]

I'm the person that LOVES to read the 3 or 4 pages of medical info on pharmaceutical ads. I also read the terms and conditions of every internet page with which I get involved. That petition company is sketchy. I couldn't sign it if I wanted to. It's the equivalent of possible rash, incontinence, heart attack, stroke, death by dismemberment.

If you are annoyed by spam emails and SOLICITORS PHONE CALLS AT DINNER TIME you should always read the terms and conditions.

[FIGJAM]

It seems like THIS is all that the majority is asking for...............

[Elderberry]

I'm the person that LOVES to read the 3 or 4 pages of medical info on pharmaceutical ads. I also read the terms and conditions of every internet page with which I get involved. That petition company is sketchy. I couldn't sign it if I wanted to. It's the equivalent of possible rash, incontinence, heart attack, stroke, death by dismemberment.

If you are annoyed by spam emails and SOLICITORS PHONE CALLS AT DINNER TIME you should always read the terms and conditions.

Anytime I actually want to sign one of those petitions and they require an email address, it's always [email protected]. Keeps the spam down.

OMG you read every TOS on every site you join!? I can never get past the first line without nodding off.

[Lonesomebri]

Anytime I actually want to sign one of those petitions and they require an email address, it's always [email protected]. Keeps the spam down.

Idontcare.png

Though I really do enjoy reading the Bmorg Inc. press releases that you are the conduit for, along with your "attaboys" when someone posts something as boring as what you wish you would have posted.

[Sandstorm]

Sandstorm short of that question being answered by the BMOrg we're all making assumptions here

Something along those lines, although a little more involved, is what I suspect also. Although I am keen to hear different perspectives.

The thing is while you may be right that the vast majority of *regular* burners don't have the capital to be setting up a turnkey camp it would not surprise me in the slightest if there are at least some *regular* burners who do actually have access to that kind of coin, or have enough event planning experience to pull it all together on the budget generated by fees alone.

And if it really was an issue of us just not being able to afford it why did it need to be a secret? Not everyone can afford to bring a mutant vehicle but the application link is right there in everyone's Burner Profile still.

I think the lack of transparency suggests that it's not just about having the means it's about being adequately connected and that is very much the opposite of radical inclusion.

Another possible motivation for keeping it quiet could be they knew it would make the community mad so they felt they had to hide it which is kinda an admission of guilt.

Or perhaps they don't want to be overrun with turnkey camp so they don't want to risk encouraging people by having the application open to all. But if that's the case it must mean they agree that these camps are not good for the event....

I cannot think of an explanation for why some people were secretly given the chance to apply for turnkey placement that doesn't include the BMOrg knowing that what they were doing was shitty.

Jovankat: You did a wonderful job of expanding on my one line response to your post.

I heartily agree with what you wrote when you spoke about access to the Turnkey Camp Placement Process being accessible to those with not just money but also INFLUENCE. Yesterday on my FB profile I made a lengthy post in response to the insulting piece of propaganda that AnswerGirl wrote on the BM blog. After I published that post I had a well known burner reach out to me via PM and ask if we could talk on the phone. It turns out that earlier this year that person was brought into the orbit of the BM BOD and as a result that person had access to behind the scenes conversations about the state and future of BM and to the people who are behind THE BORG's love affair with COMMODIFICATION CAMPS. The conversations that my unnamed burner contact relayed to me were appalling and showed me that burners are justified in thinking that something is VERY, VERY WRONG with some of the folks in THE BORG and THE BM BOD. I hate to say it but a lot of the criticisms that burners.me has directed at THE BM BOD is being shown to be justified. Some of the people in that group have been willing to create a separate and exclusive path of entry into BM that is accessible only to people who have access to the inner power circle at BM or who have the money and influence to gain that access.

Intellectual clarity can be a very lonely place because that clarity allows one to see ugly truths about things and people one loves and cares about. The truth is that Burning Man has long been my favorite thing on Earth. Another truth is that some of the people who run Burning Man are corrupt and are willing to sell out the values and ethos of the event and community in order to pursue money and influence and they're willing to ignore and patronize we, the burners, in order to avoid owning up to their corrupt behavior.

I've got at least one burn left in me. In light of SHERPAGATE and the COMMODIFICATION CAMP debate I need to decide if I've already had my last BIG BURN or if I'm going to hold my nose in order to make one last trip to my beloved BRC. I can honestly say that it's going to be hard for me make either one of those decisions.

[Simon of the Playa]

i see John, we edited your prissy remark...


well, for the record it said "Blah blah Blah"....


and was pretty pathetic, even for you....glad you removed it...

[Elderberry]

Here lonelybri, here is an example of two intelligently thought out posts that can actually influence people. As opposed to posts that sound like they were written by an insane person.

Sandstorm short of that question being answered by the BMOrg we're all making assumptions here

Something along those lines, although a little more involved, is what I suspect also. Although I am keen to hear different perspectives.

The thing is while you may be right that the vast majority of *regular* burners don't have the capital to be setting up a turnkey camp it would not surprise me in the slightest if there are at least some *regular* burners who do actually have access to that kind of coin, or have enough event planning experience to pull it all together on the budget generated by fees alone.

And if it really was an issue of us just not being able to afford it why did it need to be a secret? Not everyone can afford to bring a mutant vehicle but the application link is right there in everyone's Burner Profile still.

I think the lack of transparency suggests that it's not just about having the means it's about being adequately connected and that is very much the opposite of radical inclusion.

Another possible motivation for keeping it quiet could be they knew it would make the community mad so they felt they had to hide it which is kinda an admission of guilt.

Or perhaps they don't want to be overrun with turnkey camp so they don't want to risk encouraging people by having the application open to all. But if that's the case it must mean they agree that these camps are not good for the event....

I cannot think of an explanation for why some people were secretly given the chance to apply for turnkey placement that doesn't include the BMOrg knowing that what they were doing was shitty.

Jovankat: You did a wonderful job of expanding on my one line response to your post.

I heartily agree with what you wrote when you spoke about access to the Turnkey Camp Placement Process being accessible to those with not just money but also INFLUENCE. Yesterday on my FB profile I made a lengthy post in response to the insulting piece of propaganda that AnswerGirl wrote on the BM blog. After I published that post I had a well known burner reach out to me via PM and ask if we could talk on the phone. It turns out that earlier this year that person was brought into the orbit of the BM BOD and as a result that person had access to behind the scenes conversations about the state and future of BM and to the people who are behind THE BORG's love affair with COMMODIFICATION CAMPS. The conversations that my unnamed burner contact relayed to me were appalling and showed me that burners are justified in thinking that something is VERY, VERY WRONG with some of the folks in THE BORG and THE BM BOD. I hate to say it but a lot of the criticisms that burners.me has directed at THE BM BOD is being shown to be justified. Some of the people in that group have been willing to create a separate and exclusive path of entry into BM that is accessible only to people who have access to the inner power circle at BM or who have the money and influence to gain that access.

Intellectual clarity can be a very lonely place because that clarity allows one to see ugly truths about things and people one loves and cares about. The truth is that Burning Man has long been my favorite thing on Earth. Another truth is that some of the people who run Burning Man are corrupt and are willing to sell out the values and ethos of the event and community in order to pursue money and influence and they're willing to ignore and patronize we, the burners, in order to avoid owning up to their corrupt behavior.

I've got at least one burn left in me. In light of SHERPAGATE and the COMMODIFICATION CAMP debate I need to decide if I've already had my last BIG BURN or if I'm going to hold my nose in order to make one last trip to my beloved BRC. I can honestly say that it's going to be hard for me make either one of those decisions.

[Elderberry]

i see John, we edited your prissy remark...


well, for the record it said "Blah blah Blah"....


and was pretty pathetic, even for you....glad you removed it...

Ya, it came after the wrong post. I was late getting it up. Wasn't directed at you.

[FIGJAM]

It all makes sense now.


Indulgences: These were ‘certificates’ produced in bulk that had been pre-signed by the pope which pardoned a person’s sins and gave you access to heaven. Basically if you knew that you had sinned you would wait until a pardoner was in your region selling an indulgence and purchase one as the pope, being God’s representative on Earth, would forgive your sins and you would be pardoned. This industry was later expanded to allow people to buy an indulgence for a dead relative who might be in purgatory or Hell and relieve that relative of his sins. By doing this you would be seen by the Catholic Church of committing a Christian act and this would elevate your status in the eyes of God.

[theCryptofishist]

Indulgences: These were ‘certificates’ produced in bulk that had been pre-signed by the pope which pardoned a person’s sins and gave you access to heaven. Basically if you knew that you had sinned you would wait until a pardoner was in your region selling an indulgence and purchase one as the pope, being God’s representative on Earth, would forgive your sins and you would be pardoned. This industry was later expanded to allow people to buy an indulgence for a dead relative who might be in purgatory or Hell and relieve that relative of his sins. By doing this you would be seen by the Catholic Church of committing a Christian act and this would elevate your status in the eyes of God.

Kinda makes you want to nail something to a door...

[Simon of the Playa]

Kinda makes you want to nail something to a door...

like 95 feces.

[Jovankat]

Here lonelybri, here is an example of two intelligently thought out posts that can actually influence people. As opposed to posts that sound like they were written by an insane person.

Sandstorm short of that question being answered by the BMOrg we're all making assumptions here

Something along those lines, although a little more involved, is what I suspect also. Although I am keen to hear different perspectives.

The thing is while you may be right that the vast majority of *regular* burners don't have the capital to be setting up a turnkey camp it would not surprise me in the slightest if there are at least some *regular* burners who do actually have access to that kind of coin, or have enough event planning experience to pull it all together on the budget generated by fees alone.

And if it really was an issue of us just not being able to afford it why did it need to be a secret? Not everyone can afford to bring a mutant vehicle but the application link is right there in everyone's Burner Profile still.

I think the lack of transparency suggests that it's not just about having the means it's about being adequately connected and that is very much the opposite of radical inclusion.

Another possible motivation for keeping it quiet could be they knew it would make the community mad so they felt they had to hide it which is kinda an admission of guilt.

Or perhaps they don't want to be overrun with turnkey camp so they don't want to risk encouraging people by having the application open to all. But if that's the case it must mean they agree that these camps are not good for the event....

I cannot think of an explanation for why some people were secretly given the chance to apply for turnkey placement that doesn't include the BMOrg knowing that what they were doing was shitty.

Jovankat: You did a wonderful job of expanding on my one line response to your post.

I heartily agree with what you wrote when you spoke about access to the Turnkey Camp Placement Process being accessible to those with not just money but also INFLUENCE. Yesterday on my FB profile I made a lengthy post in response to the insulting piece of propaganda that AnswerGirl wrote on the BM blog. After I published that post I had a well known burner reach out to me via PM and ask if we could talk on the phone. It turns out that earlier this year that person was brought into the orbit of the BM BOD and as a result that person had access to behind the scenes conversations about the state and future of BM and to the people who are behind THE BORG's love affair with COMMODIFICATION CAMPS. The conversations that my unnamed burner contact relayed to me were appalling and showed me that burners are justified in thinking that something is VERY, VERY WRONG with some of the folks in THE BORG and THE BM BOD. I hate to say it but a lot of the criticisms that burners.me has directed at THE BM BOD is being shown to be justified. Some of the people in that group have been willing to create a separate and exclusive path of entry into BM that is accessible only to people who have access to the inner power circle at BM or who have the money and influence to gain that access.

Intellectual clarity can be a very lonely place because that clarity allows one to see ugly truths about things and people one loves and cares about. The truth is that Burning Man has long been my favorite thing on Earth. Another truth is that some of the people who run Burning Man are corrupt and are willing to sell out the values and ethos of the event and community in order to pursue money and influence and they're willing to ignore and patronize we, the burners, in order to avoid owning up to their corrupt behavior.

I've got at least one burn left in me. In light of SHERPAGATE and the COMMODIFICATION CAMP debate I need to decide if I've already had my last BIG BURN or if I'm going to hold my nose in order to make one last trip to my beloved BRC. I can honestly say that it's going to be hard for me make either one of those decisions.

derail
/dɪˈreɪl/
verb

obstruct (a process) by diverting it from its intended course.
"the plot is seen by some as an attempt to derail the negotiations"

The act of throwing a thread in a discussion forum off topic, oftentimes so much so that the original discussion is unable to continue. A common result of a troll attempting to have fun at the expense of people actually trying to use the forum.
A common result of a flame war between multiple users.

[theCryptofishist]

That would require some creative nailing.