RV: To purchase or not ...

tatonka · Post by **tatonka** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:50 am

this one looks like it should have been there last year

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:03 am

Wow! That IS cool!!! I had one of those (early '70s Winnebago) and junked it, only bought it for the new fridge it had.
That's what I shoulda' done!

ranger magnum · Post by **ranger magnum** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:48 pm

Sort of a cross post, but as for tires, age is usually the issue, at least for recreational vehicles. 6 years is the industry wide recognized life of a tire. Sure they are in the business of selling tires, but their time frame is accurate. Elliot lost a tire after 8 years.

Figjam, while insulation against the sun is always a good idea, it's the atmosphere that wreaks havoc. As the oils in the rubber evaporate, the tires become brittle, and the result are cracks within the carcass of the tire, most notable on the sidewalls.

Heat is a big culprit, and as we know, storage around brc can get pretty hot. So while storage of a vehicle near brc may seem like a good, convenient idea, it can actually cost you more in the long. Not to mention letting a vehicle sit for long periods is bad for it in other ways.

Jackass · Post by **Jackass** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:06 pm

The playa itself will suck the oils right out of your tires where they make contact all week. The newer the tire, the darker the spot where the tires sit. Noticed one year some dark purple stains on the playa where my truck tires had sat, my tires were brand spankin new. In subsequent years with the same tires the marks were lighter and less noticeable.

Playa kills rubber, don't forget to thoroughly wash your rubber.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:47 pm

My '55 Chevy has 30 year old BFG Radial T/A 235/60R15s on it.
I wonder if I should consider replacing them in a few years...

Jackass · Post by **Jackass** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:53 pm

I've got rubber on my Camaro that's nearly 20yo, but then again I stay close to home with it and rarely drive it anyways.

I run 265s (on the back)

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:11 pm

That's what I was wondering.

How long can you store a new unmounted tire, and how to recreate those conditions for tires you rarely use?

Like putting the vehicle on blocks, deflate to 20 pounds, then coat them with something?

I don't know, but I would like to.

Jackass · Post by **Jackass** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:23 pm

You wouldn't want to deflate them, that's how you get flat spots...

I'm betting that leaving the trailer on jackstands and storing tires in a cool, dry spot away from the sun, is about the best a guy can do.

At least taking the load off of the tires, not making contact with the ground and covering from sun and rain should work pretty well.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:31 pm

How do you get flat spots if the tire's not on the ground?

I was thinking of something just shy of pulling the wheels off and storing them inside.

Dry I got, cool I ain't got.

Jackass · Post by **Jackass** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:15 pm

FIGJAM wrote:How do you get flat spots if the tire's not on the ground?

I was thinking of something just shy of pulling the wheels off and storing them inside.

Dry I got, cool I ain't got.

I thought you meant to deflate them on the ground. Someone told a friend of mine to do it that way, when he did get the car running again it was a very bouncy ride.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:17 pm

That was the putting on blocks part.

Jackass · Post by **Jackass** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:21 pm

I was under the impression you were going to merely drive up onto said blocks. Make a FIGJAM bucket cooler for your tires!

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:31 pm

I'm pretty sure UV is your enemy. Keep them out of the sun. Cover them, take 'em off and store them inside, or move to Seattle.

Fen · Post by **Fen** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:53 am

But think about that it could rain too...
re putting your tires on again in mud, when the blocks sunk in, could possibly hard?

Maybe just cover them with fabric?
Like a hoola Hoop shell or something... and you can use the hoolas in the meanwhile

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:21 am

.
I've been using these all along. Not every day, but when I'm pretty sure she is not moving for at least a few days, I put them on.

In winter, I park the tires on plywood or lumber, to minimize sinking from the rain. Maybe I should jack her up and let her rest on the axles rather than the tires, as Figjam suggests. I jack up the front to grease the kingpins anyway.

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:55 pm

I got those for our trailer tires. Been thinking about covers for the pickup tires too, as it is not in daily. or even weekly, use. I don't use the straps though, just throw them on.

ranger magnum · Post by **ranger magnum** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:06 pm

Flat spotting is typically a problem of bias ply tires. Even after sitting for long periods of time, they will "round out" after a few miles and some heat is generated within the body of the tire.

Nylon cord was a bit more susceptible than polyester as far as flat spots.

Radials don't do this as much because of the steel, and carcass construction.

As for the Playa, parking your rig on 12x12 squares of plywood is a good idea. A week on the Playa won't do too much damage, but every little bit helps.

smilemore · Post by **smilemore** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:45 pm

ok so I think I may be off the RV path for the moment ... and Simon ... don't for a second flatter yourself as this current shift in direction comes not as a result of me attempting to dodge your previous effort to shame me into taking a more "right" way of burning

but rather as a result of me attempting to halve the cost without halving the experience. I will call it my attempt at being MORE radically self reliant ... and I am actually starting to like the challenge!

Here is where I am currently:

1. Rent a mini van
2. Kodiak 10x14 FlexBow canvass tent
3. Some type shade for above the tent
4. portable toilet for Taschia (mostly)
5. A few coolers ... probably one that plugs in.
6. and bunch of other shit ...

I think I can plan, present and build a rather acceptable little camp that will both please Taschia's very few wishes and our budget.

more to come

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:01 pm

smilemore wrote:... 4. portable toilet for Taschia (mostly)...

Some are cheap & easy, and you can use the liner bags with the solidifying agent in it.

smilemore wrote:... 2. Kodiak 10x14 FlexBow canvass tent...

If you promise to screw it into the playa with Figjam's lagbolts, I'd like to camp across the street and watch.

Figjam's lagbolts
viewtopic.php?f=277&t=68556&p=1001718&h ... d#p1001718
Winds regularly to 25mph, frequently to 45 mph, known to reach 75 mph, sometimes beyond. Here's some windloads of the wind friendly hexayurts. As you're not interested in the tape, only the first post with the wind loads would be of interest.
viewtopic.php?f=277&t=65276#p955753

smilemore · Post by **smilemore** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:54 am

Canoe wrote:
smilemore wrote:... 4. portable toilet for Taschia (mostly)...
Some are cheap & easy, and you can use the liner bags with the solidifying agent in it.

smilemore wrote:... 2. Kodiak 10x14 FlexBow canvass tent...
If you promise to screw it into the playa with Figjam's lagbolts, I'd like to camp across the street and watch.

Figjam's lagbolts
viewtopic.php?f=277&t=68556&p=1001718&h ... d#p1001718
Winds regularly to 25mph, frequently to 45 mph, known to reach 75 mph, sometimes beyond. Here's some windloads of the wind friendly hexayurts. As you're not interested in the tape, only the first post with the wind loads would be of interest.
viewtopic.php?f=277&t=65276#p955753

I am slightly curious as to your desire to camp across from us ... are you recommending against this (or perhaps any) tent Canoe? My plan would be to utilize the vehicle for any wind break qualities that it may provide as well as using it as a non-movable anchor for some of the tent tie downs. There is certainly no shortage of info on this topic, eh? Thanks for the links to Figjam's lag bolts.

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:25 am

Tents and poles flying through the air, or along the ground, can do some real damage, be it to people or property. If a tent is well secured to the ground, then it's safe to camp near it. And that's the tent, not its guylines, line or even a chain. Even if attached to a nearby vehicle is not enough, except to secure the flapping former tent while it gets ripped apart, before it breaks away and tumble-weeds away. Although, even if you're some distance away, you might be where a poorly secured airborne jumble of material & poles (formerly a tent) comes down.

Vehicles as wind breaks can help, usually. In some cases vehicles and nearby structures work to funnel the wind, so you're subjected to even more than the wind itself. So you move your vehicle relative to the wind of the day and your tent, all looks good, so you head out to explore BRC. You return to no tent.
Depends on what is nearby, the wind direction, speed and ground turbulence. Plan for something that can withstand 75 mph winds, or at least have its remains stay put and not injure anyone else. All bets are off for surviving micro-events.

A well secured tent, with a poor wind profile, can be amusing to watch blow apart. If it's not well secured, take cover. Try to corral such a wind whipped structure at your peril.

There is a wealth of info on eplaya of what does and doesn't survive the higher winds, or the mirco-events that blow straight down from above. So on the playa there's no sympathy for people who bring inappropriate gear, particularly if it injures someone when it gets blown apart.

smilemore · Post by **smilemore** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:48 am

Thanks for the info Canoe ... in all seriousness I certainly want to ensure that whatever structure I choose is selected with full appreciation of the potential wrath of our fair mother!!!

AZ-Dave · Post by **AZ-Dave** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:41 am

Smilemore: Sounds like a well thought out plan. Since you are in in Canada this idea may not work... but might be worth exploring. Just a quick thought.

Shipping a 1,000 lbs crate is not as expensive you might think. Build a crate and ship all your gear to a location in Reno - MayFlower, Yellow Freight - via truck freight. Possibly even Gerlach. Then ship it back. Build the crate strong and such that the top can be removed and replaced. It seems many other long time Burners have a storage figured out. Someone will know where to send it. Arrive in Reno, rent the mini van, go get your stuff from the crate, stop by Walmart, get some groceries. End of the burn pack the back up. The cost of storing the crate may be more than shipping it back home. (The whole fees for shipping into Canada could be an issue.) Hopefully No taxes/tariffs though... it's your stuff, not something your are buying. Storing the crate our bigger issue will be clean bedding, etc.... unless you plan a day to clean up in Reno before repacking the crate.... It you ship it back... then you can deal with that in a few weeks.

Just a thought.

Dave.

PS. As a owner of different an RV's for over 15 years.... they are maintenance. Leaving it in storage for a full year is a bad plan. A trailer with no way to tow it.. not too good. Renting it out is a worse plan. My .02.

PSS. If you don't have a camp... Check out Poly Paradise. http://polyparadise.azcompuguy.com/ They may help with the rest of what you are looking for.

Jovankat · Post by **Jovankat** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:04 pm

AZ-Dave wrote:The whole fees for shipping into Canada could be an issue.) Hopefully No taxes/tariffs though... it's your stuff, not something your are buying.

The way to avoid that is probably a carnet. Customs will inspect the crate on the way in and the ay out to ensure you're takin our what you brought in so you don't have to pay import duties

smilemore · Post by **smilemore** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:15 pm

Thanks AZ and Jovankat.

We just recently decided that we will miss this year ... this has caused me much sadness but, at the same time, has allowed me to more thoroughly plan our return. I think I am off the RV route and will spend the next 18 months on an alternative plan.

Re: the Carnet ... I have some experience with customs and am not worried about that end and have been considering the benefits of gathering all necessities locally ... testing, etc. and shipping it ahead.

I just happened upon our videos (only a few) from 2014 and I just can't properly explain to others the incredible impact this experience has been. The experience for me has been such that missing a year only makes it better ... as in I am able to draw the positive of the situation to the forefront so to speak.

... of course if circumstances changed and it all worked out for a return in 2015 then ...

Cheers!

Post by **mdmf007** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:24 am

I bought a rental return from one of the national chain - best decision of my BMAN life.

as far as flat spots go - just move whatever unit it is so the tires are not sitting on the same spot all the time. every months a few feet is all you need...

[jim] · Post by **[jim]** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:58 am

posting a bit late to the party... but in case someone does a search in the future I'll add what I know:

first, shipping in canada is insanely expensive. in order to avoid in-canada shippers, people will drive/pick up items ordered in the USA at a convenient depot, usually just across a US/CA border crossing. I can recommend a shipper with extremely reasonable ship rates: Forward Air. If they have a depot near you, and another depot near your destination, they will have screaming good deals (especially for Canadians after they've checked door-to-door rates). Downside: you have pack your crap so that it will survive getting tossed in the back of a large truck trailer, with a lot of other, large heavy objects. But, f you can put it on a pallet and haul it across the border to the depot, you can save a lot of money.

For those thinking about storing and registering an RV in Nevada... well, Nevada doesn't have a state income tax. So we pay taxes on other things. Motor vehicles are a fine source of revenue (the newer the vehicle the higher the yearly registration fee). Plus you need to get the RV smogged every year if it is old (more than 4 years old?), an additional embuggerance unless your smog check is around burning man time.

As far as buying RVs or travel trailers, here's an excellent video on sussing out problems with a newish pristine-looking RV which should make anyone avoid buying a new or used RV.

I have more time than money, so I build my own travel trailers. They sort-of flat-pack ikea style, so I can put the whole trailer (unpacked) against the walls of my two-car garage, and still fit two cars, a honda shadow, 4 winter tires, table saw, and other crap in the garage. Albeit the only bits that are immediately available for use are the 'other crap' and the two cars. Set up, the trailer box is 11x6'6''; plenty of room for casual camping and burning man.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:35 pm

Look at that video, folks. Notice how he stuck his hand right thru the paneling inside that closet.
Even though all four corners had rust-free screws on the outside, the trailer was utterly ruined.
This is the norm, not the exception.
I have dismantled three units like this. To a large extent I tore them apart with my hands -- not much tools needed.
Be aware.

pink · Post by **pink** » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:25 am

Thank you for the video! I learned a lot in case I want to find something bigger at some point. My van has a lot of dry rot, but no mold thank god!

mooserider · Post by **mooserider** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:43 am

I can't resist, I have to put in my $.02 (or is that commodification?).

The only reason I am considering bringing an RV to Burning Man, is because I already have it, and got it cheaply effectively as an early inheritance (my elderly father can't drive it any more and his insurance was getting too high, so I pay the bills on the RV now and drive him to his fishing). It is horribly impractical to own one of these things unless you use it a lot (3 or more months a year). I took it on only to keep the beast in the family, and because I use it not only for the family vacations, but for ham radio EmComm operations (I am slowly turning it into an emergency communications vehicle that still happens to have a toilet and a place to make coffee and sleep while in the field, unlike the county's official EmComm van). Thankfully, registration in my state is comparatively cheap (less than a quarter of what my father was paying in his state), but keeping up with the maintenance on a large vehicle that's been used hard is time-consuming and expensive (coming up on $400 for routine maintenance and annual state inspection this month alone). As it is, I'm expecting to spend something like $5000 just in fuel to get the thing to and from Burning Man (OK, I live on the east coast), and it costs me $222 a month just to store the thing (my township has an obnoxious ordinance against parking RVs on residential property in the township), plus $100 a month in fuel just running the engine and generator to keep the batteries charged up and keep the bearings lubricated (figuring adding solar will pay off in 2 years just from the fuel savings on battery maintenance).

So think long and hard over whether you will use it enough to justify the ownership costs you will pay whether you are using it or not.

At least, the RV is heavy enough that it can't blow away.

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