Handicap Vehicle for Playa Touring: The Babe

[lectroPOP]

Babe 6.jpg

First entry: a plan is in motion.

We are affiliated with Mobility Camp.

A 1974 Open Road motorhome has been bought, named, moved and deconstructed in preparation. It is about to be transformed into a wonderous and awesome means for folks that are physically challenged (and others, too) to enjoy touring the entire playa for FREE!

With an eye toward Green, we have investigated getting the 405 GM motor gone; putting in an all-electric system. Cost of doing that now is beyond our means; our budget is thin. We are moving to making a wood-burning fuel system to feed our machine; thumbing our noses at the petrol industry by making our over ambitious project affordable. All the various parts are at hand, somewhere. Only the skilled hands are needed to make this happen for Burning Man 2015.

We have space promised at The Generator in Sparks, NV. Three months ought to be sufficient. For now, we are working in a storage yard near the airport. The plan is to realize progress every day. More information is available, with pictures of our progress and our model, from which the work is being done.
See this Flickr site https://www.flickr.com/photos/boz_hobbs/ for more detail through photos. Contact: [email protected] for information, to volunteer work or funds, or just to keep up on events around or about The Babe.

We need 12 theater seats (adaptable for seat belts), wheelchair hold-downs, a potty disposal cart, parts for a solar still, a suitable ramp (or chair lift), non-slip flooring, metal sheeting, metal tubing, PVC and EMT pipe, an audio system (PA and music), organizers to create fund raising events and so much more. Most of all we need you.

[lucky420]

Wow this is amazing!

I live in reno and will be contacting Tim soon. I also have a coworker who I think will be very interested...

Yay!

[lectroPOP]

Lucky420~
So happy to see your interest. Come on ahead.
BTW if this turns out to be viable, we have a second motorhome ready for a similar conversion. But that is way down the road.
Hugs.

[ygmir]

grand idea!!
I really fear, though, unless you are heavily funded, going electric on a vehicle that size (assuming electric means battery powered) will be a budget buster.
By wood fuel, do you mean steam, or "producer gas"?
consider the ash and moop of piles of firewood.

I'd humbly suggest going low cost, getting it on playa (maybe propane conversion?), and if as super cool as it seems, folks may well be willing to jump in and help fund an alternative propulsion system.

not trying to be negative, I've just built a lot of things, and know what power is needed for something that size, and what the electric system will probably require.

best of luck!!

[Elliot]

Wood gasification was used quite a bit in Europe during WW2, but by all accounts it was both messy and unreliable. And these days, precious few people would have the know-how. So for this project, I would judge it unsuitable.

Probably better to upgrade the gasoline engine to a modern computer-managed fuel-injection and ignition system, which would automatically adjust for the Playa elevation and the extensive idling, keeping the engine running smoothly and the exhaust clean. A reputable automobile salvage yard can sell you a complete engine with all the necessary wiring and computer, which can be pretty much bolted right in by a knowledgeable technician. And since you have no need for the more powerful engines that are in demand by hot-rodders, the price of your new plain-jane engine should be reasonable.

[ranger magnum]

My vote is for a hot bulb engine.....

[GreyCoyote]

I agree about keeping the engine completely mainstream. While its a noble nod to giving the oil companies the middle finger, what you really care about is getting around the playa with a bunch of super-appreciative folks who might not have made it out there without you. In this context I think reliability is EVERYTHING. Keep it simple.

Can I make another suggestion? You can find 24v wheelchair chargers online cheap. They mostly have standardized on 24v 6a supplied via an XLR-type connector. How about setting a few of these up so you can be topping-off chairs while you are cruising the playa? Two of our mobility-challenged eplayans have now told me the bane of their burn is all the time they MUST spend in camp recharging. They cant just "get up and go" on a whim. They are basically tethered to camp when the batteries get low and have to sit-out events during the charge cycle. Having a few chargers and power outlets would be a godsend to these folks. True, they would still have to charge at night, but much more mischief could be had if they could charge while touring!!

Anyway, this is a simply awesome idea. I hope to see it cruising the playa in 2015!!!

[lectroPOP]

OK, so a bunch of changes have already been made and more will come. I do appreciate eveyones's suggestions and will hit on that here.
First, wood gasification has come a ways since WWII. Mostly farmers in Mid-America (faced with various gasoline crisis to fuel their far equipment) have been instrumental in making "gasification" a viable alternative. I do appreciate comments about reliability being paramont. Any conversion would have to be tried and tested. So far as moop and ashes, my notion is that a week of burning will yield about 5 50-gallon metal garbage cans of ash and unburnt wood. Taking wood to the playa is another matter and I hope to enlist others to contribute to our stores.
Next, the replacement of the GM 405 motor seems a waste; it is in good shape considering it has 150,000 miles on it (according to the odormeter). Transmission is also strong. I am wondering, however, how small an engine replacement is involved to pull the load. I need some guidance on this.
There is ample room in the rear section (that we will keep for its shower and toilet facility) to have a charging generator for wheelchair/powerchair charging. I expect this to be an on-demand situation, so how many is dependent on how long the "tours" last and other time considerations. 2015 will be a proving ground experience, but it can only get better.
I add a Paint sketch I made to show what I expect to have rolling by the end of this week. I will take more photos as I go.

[Elliot]

My memory may not be what it once was -- or maybe it never was... but I cannot remember a "GM 405" engine. There is a 402 Chevy big block, and a 400 Chevy small block, and I think a 403... maybe Buick. What exactly is it?

[ranger magnum]

Buick had a 401 and a 425 nailhead, a 400, 430, and the legendary 455. I've never heard of a 405 either

[lectroPOP]

Every picture tells a story, don't it? It is a 402...but that is as much as I know about such. My brother told me it is a truck engine, not good for racing. I keep away from the mechanical as much as possible. I spent today cutting and fitting a tarp...weather on the way. Will save it for use later.

[Elliot]

Yes, that would be a "big block" Chevrolet engine of the "tall deck" variety, used in trucks. I was going to say that modern versions of this engine were made up to just a handful years ago, but you don't need one. But if you do keep this engine, you might want to install the modern fuel injection and ignition from a modern engine. These components would need to come from a similar "tall deck" truck engine, not a car engine. That's the extent of my knowledge, so you would need to investigate further. It is always possible that they changed something else, making the swap impossible. I bet Ranger Magnum knows.

[ygmir]

If you're asking how small and engine you can replace the 402 with, you'd need to decide top speed wanted, first.
with proper gearing, a pretty small engine would drive that rig at up to 10 mph. Or, a bigger engine, idling. Being careful, though, since idling is usually not the ideal speed for cooling. My rule of thumb, is, you need 1000 rpm to get good water and air flow from pump and fan.
Idling can also lead to a lot of carbon build up in a NA and or carburated gas engine.

[EspressoDude]

keep in the back of your mind the necessity of getting your vehicle to the playa. Drive it? keep the big motor. Tow it? Trailer it?

[Elliot]

If you're asking how small and engine you can replace the 402 with, you'd need to decide top speed wanted, first.
with proper gearing, a pretty small engine would drive that rig at up to 10 mph. Or, a bigger engine, idling. Being careful, though, since idling is usually not the ideal speed for cooling. My rule of thumb, is, you need 1000 rpm to get good water and air flow from pump and fan.
Idling can also lead to a lot of carbon build up in a NA and or carburated gas engine.

What Ygmir said. This is why I keep recommending computer-controlled injection.

As for idle speed, I'm thinking.... You want a low idle speed when you engage the transmission, so the vehicle does not jerk. But you want a higher idle while you are sitting parked. So... it should be perfectly easy to let the shift lever bump the idle up a little when you put it in Park. With a conventional column shifter, the idle would drop back down when you pull the lever toward you, out of the notch, and you would just wait a split second for the idle to drop before you pull the lever down to a gear. With a floor shifter, there would be a similar mechanism.

[lectroPOP]

Back at ya!
Ranger Magnum has not replied. The bulb thing will have to wait until we can get a graphene sandwich. I wonder if he would appreciate the HHO thing. I have one I have never used. Anybody with this experience?
Ditto Grey Coyote about the use of HHO generators to boost mileage. The 10 mph thing is where I thought I might be cruisin'. So its to be considered as we experience Babe. And an idle at 1,000 is a bit steep for me; around 800 is more like my plan. Testing will be done.
I am looking for a gas tank replacement. The old slot allowed for a 70 gallon tank (48"x23"x15"). There is room under there, with the door and step gone, for one twice that size. Figuring 10 mpg with a 50 gallon tank only leaves 300 miles for 9 days, counting driving out and back at the balance. Not much touring at 5 tours a day. Can an ArtCar go into Gerlach for gas every day?
Yes, Babe is still street legal in Nevada. So I plan to drive, Espresso Dude. The Gate is 100 miles from my door. And only about 35 of that is freeway. So, go around me. I got time, even if its only 289 days until The Man Burns; meaning I have about 280.
Also, a wheelchair lift, like you see on many municipal buses, would be ideal. I have makings for a 7 foot length by 3 foot wide ramp but would prefer a lift. This would so facilitate our service. Somebody somewhere knows where one, or many that could be made one, is...please.
I went ahead and bought the Mother Earth News Blueprint for a wood gasification unit. The jury is still out regarding use of one; the amount of wood is kinda high according to other sources. It will necessitate pulling a trailer-full to get through the week. Also fumes are a consideration, and the ash MOOP.
I have not looked into the update of an ignition and fuel injection system for my 402. I live three freeway miles from a concentration of used auto parts yards. My primary focus was getting ready to get into The Reno Generator next week. I am a day away from being ready to move. I am hoping Elliot can suggest a make and model of car that would adapt to the 402; Olds?
Thanks everybody for the input. We move along. Hugs (where appropriate).

[Elliot]

Auto and truck salvage yards have thick books called Interchange Manuals, and other books and knowledge about what fits what. (Of course, it is probably largely computerized today -- except for the wealth of knowledge in a man's head.)
So they should be able to help you. I already mentioned the basics; "big block" Chevy with "tall deck". And that won't likely be in a car, but in a truck.

[lectroPOP]

Thanks Nekkid Elliot. My brother told me pretty much the same thing.
I found a wheelchair lift and some nifty seats today...both real cheap compared to new. Seats come with seat belts, so we are staying street legal.
Did a bit of cleaning up on Babe, too. I brought "the scraps" home to toss in the weekly trash pick-up...now have to unload so as to be able to transport the lift and seats.
I am leaning toward having a gas tank made to fit. For now, since all trips will be small trips, I will go with the 5-gallon gas can and a long feeder hose. Feedback on this will be appreciated.
Again, thanks for the exchange.

[GreyCoyote]

Walmart has a fuel tank for $80 (used to be $99) that holds 12 gallons. It's made by Attwood (think marine fuel handling systems). I've used this with great success for other playa projects, and it's street-legal too.

Link: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Attwood-12-ga ... k/19765943

Hope this helps.

[Sham]

I found on the playa that I tend to use very little fuel while driving around. My artcar has a older VW engine that probably gets 20mpg. I have a 6 gallon marine gas tank in it and use only around 2 gallons a day. It may be overkill to get a very large tank for an artcar. I also carry a tiny 1 gallon gas can with me in the car just in case--and I can offer some gas to a stranded artcar if they need it.

[lucky420]

Walmart sucks

Everyday

[Sham]

Walmart sucks

Everyday

[ranger magnum]

Sorry, I've been lurking in the car thread!

Injection is great, but there are some interchangeability issues. A friend dropped an LS1 into a 3rd gen RX7. His issue was that the ecu needs to "talk" to the automatic transmission. Since he was using the stock trans in the Mazda, this presented an interesting challenge. It was eventually worked out, but it took some research.

Im of the opinion that any mods need to be done with parts readily available at a generic parts store.

For your project, I would do several things:

Get an edelbrock carb. They are easy to adjust and maintain. It will have no problems idling around. Run a can of Seafoam in with your gas when you fill it.

Run an HEI distributor.

Isolate the starting and ignition system from everything else. If you have an electric fuel pump, include it.

Ditch the belt driven fan and use an electric one.

Use a Delco 10 or 12SI alternator. Use a 3 wire system with it. People will try and convince you to use a one wire because it's simple and easy, but it's not as good. (this is one of the times I don't take the easy or simple path for Playa stuff).

I'll walk you through it should you need help. Pm me and we will exchange info.

Lastly, start learning mechanics. This is you project, you need to know how and what to do when shit breaks. And it will break.

[ranger magnum]

I forgot to mention I did extensive mechanical work on the Pyrobar mv in 2010, prior to it's current status.

At the time, it was based on a class c chassis, and had a sbc. I donated a 650 cfm edelbrock carb to the project, and it ran fine on Playa, even idling around. Plus it was driven 1200 miles round trip home.

[lectroPOP]

Thanks again for your interest everybody.
I spent the day buying a wheelchair lift and 18 upholstered seats with seatbelts. Took all day. Meaning I lost a day working on The Babe. I went over the recent comments, made notes shared here. We will be into the "serious mechanical" when the body is solid. There is a lot of work to do. Everything in its time.
First, Ranger Magnum your advice is solid gold. I am so appreciative of your experience. I will spring for the mechanics you suggest; and, yes, I am a bit more than a novice mechanic (after keeping old trucks running a couple decades). All I know is that there are guys like you that know so much more than I do. I need to know those guys. My brother is one. I do welcome a collaborative effort but do not know what is or how to "pm" somebody. Is that a message service I don't know about?
Next, I do not want to get involved in a pissing contest about WalMart or any other subject not about The Babe. I have had my issues, as have most everybody. But, due in part to their "suck;" that drove out competition, and with it the charms of competition, they are everywhere...a fact of life. I shop there for the same reasons that made them the biggest retailer in the world. Please, enough said.
For Sham, the Babe will be a tour vehicle; doing up to 5 tours a day or 45-50 for the event. I realize that moving at idle speeds, as will be required on playa, will boost gas mileage. I hope to be able to test out Babe long before the 100 mile ride from my place to the gate. Thanks for the insights. Appreciate.
I still need to know any Burning Man pass-out policy to get gas in Gerlach. Can do? No can do?
So, as I said, the gas tank issue will be on hold until its necessary to solve. I would like more input regarding playa mileage for different vehicles. I still am thinking over the wood gasification thing.
AND...
What is better...special space for people to stay in their powerchairs or wheelcharis, or seats set up to accomidate their challenges and space for their chairs while they ride?
Thanks for your thoughts.

[gaminwench]

PM = private message
Look under someone's avatar over there>>> and click on the little PM box.

MV's and Theme camps are able to purchase fuel on the playa at the Depot. I believe you need to make arrangements in advance, but don't personally know the process.
Anyone?

[GreyCoyote]

On-playa fuel is pretty simple. All you need to do is sign a contract with the vendor
and give them a credit card before you get to the playa. They bill against that card, and no cash changes hands on-playa. But it has to be setup in advance. You cant just show-up and ring the bell.

On the subject of gas tanks, if the 12 gal is too big for your needs, there are portables designed for marine outboard use with 3 and 6 gallon capacity as well. As to any vendor preference, all this is also available at any marine store as well as Amazon, etc. Same stuff. It all works great!

[lectroPOP]

Today we loaded the 8 sets of dual seats gotten from craigslist in Smith, NV. Long ride but the price was right. I also bought a used wheelchair lift and put it where it will be installed. The seats all have seat belts; in keeping as close to street legal as possible.
So helpful to see your advise. This newbie appreciates your information and will be following up most all of it as time moves on. Sunday will be a day of rest. I need it. And there is football. Expect me to begin PMing then.
I started posing to photobucket. Pardon the ads. http://s1372.photobucket.com/

[ygmir]

if it's an auto trans, consider what the stall speed of the torque converter is, before setting on an idle/drive rpm. it has to be above the stall speed, to where it's fully engaged, IIRC.

Also, it might be better to consider fuel usage in gallons per hour, than miles per gallon. measurements out there will be tough, but you can figure gallons per hour fairly easy. then, knowing your tank capacity, you'll know how long you can drive.

[Thecatman]

This is great idea.

The Gate is 100 miles from my door. And only about 35 of that is freeway.

You're in the Reno area. Go Pyramid Hwy and avoid the freeway.
I live in Dayton but work in Reno. When I'm on day shift, I get off at 2:30.