Caption Contest 7

All things outside of Burning Man.
User avatar
theCryptofishist
Posts: 40312
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
Burning Since: 2017
Location: In Exile

Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:25 am

Rian Jackson wrote:
calicowboy925 wrote:Araujo is the transgender teenager from Newark who was slain in 2002. The trial of three men accused of killing her ended in a mistrial in June.

"I think it's very hard for non-transgender people to understand the level of potential day-to-day violence most transgender people face," said Shawna Virago


I think transgender people should tell their sex partners that they are anatomically NOT what they appear, as in the case of Gwen Araujo, who had sex with these men and did not tell them she was actually a man. I am not saying this is cause for killing somebody, but it does increase the "level of potential day-to-day violence most transgender people face".
this is remarkably similar to the people who hear a woman was raped and immediately want to know what she was wearing.

I am by no means saying that being open isn't important with partners... but i'd rather someone hid that sort of info than, say, having an STD...

god, you are paranoid and easily freaked out, cali. jeeeee-BUZZ!
Especially as it seems to have been somewhat casual, rather than a "relationship." Those morons should have been glad to get some free nookie, rather than all picky about the source. IMHO.

And I bet that Gwen identified as a woman, rather than as a transgender. Sure, we can quibble about definitions and "reality" but the more I learn the more I realize that most transexuals don't consider themselves "queer" and really reguard the transitioning as more fixing a problem than a journey/experience in of itself.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

Rian Jackson
Posts: 3903
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:30 pm
Location: In Rob's Head

Post by Rian Jackson » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:27 am

calicowboy925 wrote:Hey Sam, go fuck yourself...just like the pussy you are talking shit while hiding behind your screen. Always some shit to say, here's a clue, go outside, get a life...I take it from the hours you spend here you have no women in your life, what ya so ugly your mom (the whore) had to tie a porkchop around your neck to get the dog to play with you? You say things here you wouldn't have the guts to say in a bar....I'd dare you, but you wouldn't cuz' this cowboy would whip your ass.
first of all, Sam could probably step on you and not notice.
secondly, he has more moral courage than just about anyone else i know (and yes, i know sam offline, too)
thirdly,quit fucking with my friends , ass wipe!!!

*the phrase 'i'll beat the crap out of you' has been deleted to avoid having problems with the TOS

no, really, this shit does not fly. shut up, then grow up, then come back and act like the human being i know you have the potential to be. and before you start whining that you're being picked on, you've been ASKING for this.

sheesh. i need another drink!
surlier than thou

User avatar
theCryptofishist
Posts: 40312
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
Burning Since: 2017
Location: In Exile

Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:27 am

A classic novelof transgender experience and identity. The first chapter could hold its own in a short story contest/context. Les has a hell of a lot more to tell yall than I ever will.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

GuinivereElise
Posts: 3965
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:20 am
Contact:

Post by GuinivereElise » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:31 am

Rian Jackson wrote:
calicowboy925 wrote:Hey Sam, go fuck yourself...just like the pussy you are talking shit while hiding behind your screen. Always some shit to say, here's a clue, go outside, get a life...I take it from the hours you spend here you have no women in your life, what ya so ugly your mom (the whore) had to tie a porkchop around your neck to get the dog to play with you? You say things here you wouldn't have the guts to say in a bar....I'd dare you, but you wouldn't cuz' this cowboy would whip your ass.
first of all, Sam could probably step on you and not notice.
secondly, he has more moral courage than just about anyone else i know (and yes, i know sam offline, too)
thirdly,quit fucking with my friends , ass wipe!!!

*the phrase 'i'll beat the crap out of you' has been deleted to avoid having problems with the TOS

no, really, this shit does not fly. shut up, then grow up, then come back and act like the human being i know you have the potential to be. and before you start whining that you're being picked on, you've been ASKING for this.
sheesh. i need another drink!
You know, I've been biting my tongue, trying SO HARD to keep from saying this very thing... THANK YOU, RIAN!


*step into the bar, and I'll buy you a drink*

User avatar
Lydia Love
Posts: 1566
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:01 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by Lydia Love » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:38 am

I'd like to be the third on that shut the fuck up.
It's all about the squirrels.

User avatar
samtzu
Posts: 3403
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: Portland,OR;Columbia,CA;Emigrant Wilderness
Contact:

Post by samtzu » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:55 am

What did I miss? Did somebody fart?
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

User avatar
Rob the Wop
Posts: 1814
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 4:06 pm
Location: Furbackistan, OR
Contact:

Post by Rob the Wop » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:57 am

samtzu wrote:What did I miss? Did somebody fart?
Not much really, some cowboy starting spouting off and is about the get the shit slapped out of him by 3/4 Women of the Apocaplyse. I've bought some front row tickets and I have extra, would right here next to the contender's corner work for you sam?
[b]The other, other white meat.[/b]

User avatar
samtzu
Posts: 3403
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: Portland,OR;Columbia,CA;Emigrant Wilderness
Contact:

Post by samtzu » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:59 am

Rob the Wop wrote:
samtzu wrote:What did I miss? Did somebody fart?
Not much really, some cowboy starting spouting off and is about the get the shit slapped out of him by 3/4 Women of the Apocaplyse. I've bought some front row tickets and I have extra, would right here next to the contender's corner work for you sam?
I'm there, Rob! You bring the drinks, I'll bring the snacks...
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

User avatar
4 Women of the Apocalypse
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:20 pm

Post by 4 Women of the Apocalypse » Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:04 am

and we'll bring the kick-ass.
"unprecedented and utterly unnecessary destructive power"
~Brian Doherty re the Vegematic of the Apocalypse (BM 'artcar' 1997) which wielded a long drill and a fire cannon that shot flame 100 yards, and by all rights should belong to us.

User avatar
tisha2
Posts: 2570
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:44 pm
Location: Blue Lake, CA
Contact:

Post by tisha2 » Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:32 am

hmmmm......looks like we have a quorum.
ERP ~ Emergency Resource Procurement
"if i can't find it, yer f***ed"
https://www.facebook.com/pages/ERP-Emergency-Resource-Procurement/257100377734118

how we roll:
https://www.facebook.com/TheThugboat

User avatar
theCryptofishist
Posts: 40312
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
Burning Since: 2017
Location: In Exile

Having a damn good pair of pants on

Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:00 pm

OAKLAND
New label throws fashion a curve
Company makes clothes for women who prefer masculine style

Rona Marech, Chronicle Staff Writer

Friday, December 17, 2004


Sometimes the pants bunch up in all the wrong places, or the necklines sag, or sleeves hang past wrists, or shirts balloon preposterously. Forget about buying a nicely tailored suit or renting a tuxedo.

For women who prefer minimalist men's clothing styles over stereotypically feminine, frilly garb, the pickings are slim. Women's clothing departments leave them cold. The men's clothes they tend to buy rarely fit properly. Clothes shopping is often torture.

This barren sartorial landscape was brightened last week when Aisha Pew and Breonna Cole of Oakland launched Studded, a label billing itself as the first line of clothes made expressly for butch lesbians, studs, transgender men and bois -- all au courant terms for people who lean masculine in their presentation or identity. The clothes look like what you might find in a men's department, but the design slyly accounts for the fact that women are curvier than men.

Those who would question whether lesbians care about fashion beyond flannel would have found their answer last week at a fashion show at Oakland's Parkway Theater. More than 100 people were turned away from the sold-out event. The lucky 180 who made it inside noisily cheered as models walked down the aisles -- escorted by women in tight, slinky dresses -- then turned, strutted and posed on the stage. They gave Pew, the designer, a standing ovation.

"Seeing the frustration in my wife's face" -- when she shops for clothes -- "is ridiculous to me," Pew said. Decidedly not butch, she has energetic hair that reaches impressive heights in front and a pierced eyebrow and chin. She had dressed for the occasion in a flirty black-and-white polka dot BCBG Max Azria dress with a halter top.

"The point of it is bigger than clothes. It's about feeling good on the outside and representing who you are on the inside," she told the crowd. "This is about you."

Think Paris Hilton and cleavage-enhancing cocktail dresses, then sprint for the other end of the clothing spectrum to picture the 20 pants and 18 shirts that comprise the Studded basics collection. The $55 to $85 pants -- gray flannels and brown corduroys and elegant plaids -- have a plain front and a straight hang. The simple, button-down shirts with collars run from $32 to $55 and range in color from burgundy to black, green and blue.

Audience members lingered long after the end of the runway show, the burlesque performance and the halftime butch-femme dating game to sift through the samples on the rack in the lobby and -- though they weren't supposed to -- try on the clothes.

Joe Su strolled out of the bathroom in a gray-and-white striped shirt. "The sleeves fit perfectly. The neck is perfect," said Su, 32. "They're filling a void that's been in the community for a long time."

Patricia St. Onge, Cole's mother, had watched the show enthusiastically from the front row.

"The clothes are just right," she said. "They help them move in the world in a way they feel comfortable. You could feel it in the way they came and went from the stage and the energy in the room."

Anne Hollander, a fashion writer and author of "Sex and Suits," said that historically, lesbians who wanted to wear men's suits have had them custom- made -- if they had the money -- but such clothes, tailored to women's bodies, have never been available off-the-rack. She was intrigued.

"Ha-ha! Well, that's wonderful! It's such a creative idea," she said. Everything, she added, seems to start in the Bay Area.

A few days after the fashion show, Pew, 24, and Cole, 26, still aglow from their success, spoke about their fledgling business at a downtown Oakland coffee shop. The story of their company goes back to their first meeting in a San Francisco club in 2003.

They fell in love, moved in, and tried to figure out how to mesh their giant life ambitions: Cole, a grant writer with a political and community organizing background (she's the daughter of former Oakland City Councilman Wilson Riles), dreams of running for office. Pew, a Wesleyan University graduate with a master's degree in jurisprudence and social policy from UC Berkeley, thinks secretary of state might just suit her.

But before they could put their plan into action, Cole's 11-month-old niece unexpectedly came to live with them. The baby was always filthy, as babies are wont to be, and it occurred to Pew that a one-piece jumpsuit with changeable front panels that snapped on and off would help matters. Thus the "snapsie" and the clothing company Chocolate Baby Designs were born.

Around the same time, San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom ordered the city to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Cole proposed, and the couple married in City Hall.

Pew found the perfect, celebratory yellow dress for their engagement party, but Cole -- who identifies herself as a stud, a synonym for butch that some African Americans prefer -- was having major outfit trauma.

"I was dragging her from store to store. She doesn't get mad, but I could tell how miserable she was," Pew said.

At first, Pew figured her girlfriend simply hated to shop. "Then it hit me that it had nothing to do with the purchase of great clothes," Pew said. The truth was "the clothes weren't great."

Lightbulb No. 2 went off, and they embarked on a two-woman crusade against what they see as the fashion world's excessive allegiance to gender lines. They went to a patternmaker and then a seamstress with a production house and scrounged up funding through small business loans and savings and credit cards.

Now, nearly a year later, having dispensed quite a few "queer theory 101 lectures" to work associates who didn't quite understand their butch fashion vision, they will start selling Studded at events and small private gatherings in the tradition of Tupperware parties. They just opened their Web site, www.chocolatebabydesigns.com, and will turn their attention next to men's suits, shorts, swimwear and underwear.

"A lot of companies feel like gay women aren't going to spend money on fashion, or they don't think they have a fashion sense," Pew said, "which is an insult."

So maybe there's a grain of truth in the stereotype, she said, but if women with a taste for men's attire could find clothes that fit right, fewer would find shopping and dressing so grievous.

"Of course you're going to rush to dress if you don't like what you're wearing," Pew said. "You're not going to look in the mirror and primp and do all the extras if you're not completely satisfied."

Cole, who was wearing a blue button-down Studded shirt, said, "I look better in these clothes than I have ever looked.

"I hope this launches a love affair with fashion for butches and studs," she said. "Having a damn good pair of pants on can go a long way if you're having a bad day."
the daily paper
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

User avatar
theCryptofishist
Posts: 40312
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
Burning Since: 2017
Location: In Exile

Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:04 pm

For trannies and the men who love them, Divas is the place

John Koopman

Wednesday, December 15, 2004

It's after midnight at Divas. The lower-level bar is packed. Coco is lip-synching to Christina Aguilera. It's loud and rocking. Men sit at the bar and nuzzle women standing next to them. Two girls start dancing in the aisle, getting closer and closer until they're bumping and grinding, to the cheers of the people around them.

Pretty young women circulate through the crowd. "What are you here for?" they ask strangers.

It's a good question. Because this is not just any bar in any city. This is Divas, the most famous, or possibly notorious, transgender bar in San Francisco. It is the hangout for post-op transsexuals, pre-ops, cross-dressers, gender-benders, female impersonators and the men who love them.

"I don't know why people think this place is so scary," said one patron. "It's just another bar."

In some ways, Divas is just like any other bar. There are three levels open to the public. The ground-floor bar, when it's not being used for the lip- synch show, is just another bar. Men sit on stools and banter with the bartender. Televisions are on either end of the bar.

The third floor has a dance floor and a stripper pole. There are topless shows some nights, and the place is like a regular strip club. Women dance and tease. Men tuck dollar bills in G-strings. There's the requisite disco ball hanging from the ceiling.

The fourth floor is a more intimate bar setting, with the best-looking bartenders serving drinks, and a few sofas and easy chairs for socializing.

But that's where normalcy, as American society would define it, ends.

This is the sexual frontier. There are no easy identifiers for the women who go there, nor for the men. It's not as simple as gay or straight, male or female.

"I'd say 85 percent of the men who come here are married, and a lot of them have kids," said bartender Alexis Miranda.

The owner, Steve Berkey, said the majority of the male patrons consider themselves straight. They just like their women to have a little something extra.

The men are called "trannie chasers" by some of the girls, and there is a real love-hate relationship between them.

Alana Murtaugh, a 25-year-old transsexual from South Texas, said a lot of the men at Divas tend to objectify the girls, or they simply have a fetish for T-girls, as they are sometimes called.

"For a lot of them, the girls are just sexual playthings," she said. "Plus, the men have the luxury of just visiting. They can come in and have fun and they go back to their nice, easy lives. We live in this world."

The men come in all sizes, shapes and ethnicities. I went to the bar several times and saw white, Asian, Latino and African American patrons. There were men in suits, men in jeans, men in windbreakers. Men with distinguished gray hair and young hip-hop types with shaved heads and baggy pants.

The women are just as diverse. They range from extremely beautiful to, well, men in dresses. But most are divalike. They are carefully made up and dress exotically. They say a straight man can't tell the difference, most of the time, between a transsexual woman and biological woman. That's probably true. The one tip-off is that the transgender women are almost too perfect. You spot a beautiful woman out of the corner of your eye and turn to look. Even in a place like Divas where you know the women are transsexual, you can't help yourself.

The interaction between men and women at Divas is similar to that of any bar, or pickup joint, except that the women are more likely to approach the men. There are two reasons for this. For one thing, they are perhaps more interested in finding a mate. A lot of the women have spent their entire lives trying to find their feminine selves, and they want validation that they are, in fact, women.

And then there is the second reason: Some of them are working girls.

Divas is in Polk Gulch, ground zero for gay, straight and trannie prostitution in the city. Some women work the street and then step into Divas for a drink, to rest their feet and maybe see if they can find a trick inside.

And because the place has a liquor license, the stakes are high. Divas has an order for a 30-day suspension and a year's probation as a result of a prostitution investigation earlier this year. The order is under appeal.

"I don't want that kind of thing going on in here," Berkey said. "That kind of suspension would kill me. But I can't watch everyone all the time. The best I can do is keep it low-key."

Berkey estimates that 90 percent of the women at the club have worked in the sex industry, in some form or another, at some point in their lives. There are many reasons for that. Part of it is a combination of society and economics. The women need jobs, but a lot of companies aren't comfortable having transgendered people as employees. And being a transsexual can be expensive, depending on how far the woman takes it. There are hormones to take, surgeries to be performed.

Beyond that, sex with a man validates a male-to-female transsexual's femininity. "And a lot of these girls need all the validation they can get," Berkey said. "Sex is a rite of passage for them."

In the Divas world, almost everything is about sex. Alexis the bartender said most of the men who like trannies want hard, raw sex with someone who also wants it. They are more likely, she said, to get it from a transsexual than a biological woman.

"Look around at women today," she said. "They dress like men, or they're in sweats or whatever. They're not sexy. They're not feminine. A transgendered person works hard to be feminine, and they still have the male sexual hunger. So it's a perfect match."

Many of the trannie chasers might consider themselves heterosexual, but Jeff is a straight-up bisexual. Has been since he was a young boy playing games with other boys in the backyards of the East Bay.

He likes women and will probably marry one someday. And he likes transsexuals because they are beautiful and sexual.

"Primarily, I like women," he said. "It's a cliche, but this really is the best of both worlds."

Jeff, who asked that his last name not be used, said the men he knows at Divas are not interested in "guy sex." But they're into a kind of sex that a lot of wives and girlfriends don't like.

Although sex may be the primary concern of the patrons, Divas means something more to the women who go there.

For Alana, it's almost a second home. It's the transgender equivalent of the bar in "Cheers."

"This is a place where I can be myself," she said. "I don't have to worry about what anyone thinks. I can just show up and know I'll find people I know, people I can talk to and have a good time."

Alana is pretty, with soft white skin, and can easily pass for a woman in a store or on the street. She's fortunate that way. And she recognizes that she and her friends go there to meet men who want them. Everyone knows what the score is. A woman doesn't have to wonder how the man will react when he finds out she was not born a woman. It is a complementary relationship.

Even so, it's a murky world. There are various stages of transgenderdom, and everyone has his or her own particular likes, wants and needs in a partner. If you're a man and have sex with a post-op transsexual, are you straight? What if the person dresses as a woman but still has a penis?

"You know, these questions go round and round and round," Berkey said. "There are countless discussions, countless variations of gender identity and sexual identity.

"In the end, what I've figured out is, 'Who cares?' It's all about what you like, and what feels good. Definitions don't mean anything."

Berkey is 56, an amiable Midwesterner who looks a little like the actor Robert Conrad. He worked in the construction industry for years before he bought Divas. The career change had much to do with the fact that he is married to a post-op transsexual and he thought they could run the club together.

He's owned Divas for about three years. The bar used to be known as the Motherlode, a block away at Post and Larkin.

"If I weren't married, I could have a lot of fun here," he said Saturday night as the lip-synching reached a fevered pitch. He shined a flashlight on the rump of a woman dancing in the aisle. "My wife thinks that's all I'm after, so I have to be careful not to give her anything to be jealous over."

E-mail John Koopman at [email protected].
Chron again
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

User avatar
theCryptofishist
Posts: 40312
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
Burning Since: 2017
Location: In Exile

Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:11 pm

I'm not gonna say that the San Francisco Chronicle is the best place to follow transgender issues. It may[/] be the best major metropolitan daily because of the large community presence but going to community papers may get you more cutting edge stuff and more first person accounts and both those things are important if you want to really understand what's going on. It is the paper that I read in the morning so I'm reposting articles that catch my eye for this purpose.

Here's another important resource
http://www.spectator.net/EDPAGES/news.html
and his personal website
http://www.patcalifia.com/
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

Post Reply

Return to “Open Discussion”