LarryCo Responds re: Commodification Camps

[Lonesomebri]

And another thread on the commercialization falls to Elderberry's lust.

[alt12]

BURNING MAN BROKE CARAVANSICLE

Burning Man is the ultimate testing ground...

Simon, thanks for sharing that. I'm not on DR's FB page so would never have seen it. But since then have seen the original (with real names used) re-posted on the Black Rock Rangers FB Group. Would you mind re-posting that as a separate post in Politics & Philosophy? This seems like an important piece of information to get out there. God bless DR. That was the most honest and candid statement I've seen yet from the BMORG. I'm sure it pissed of quite a few people!

[Simon of the Playa]

to be fair, it was ALL over the interwebz that morning...

i respect Danger Ranger's OPINION

thats why i reposted it.

BURNING MAN BROKE CARAVANSICLE

Burning Man is the ultimate testing ground. Your best design for shelter will be tested by the playa and the playa almost always wins. If you come to your first burn as a couple, don't count on leaving with the same person. Whatever psychological baggage you bring to the event will be destroyed within a few days. Even getting tickets to the event can be fraught with drama and intrigue. However elaborate, your plans for a giant camp involving scores of other burners will be tested to the limit by the time the Man burns. The lifetime of a theme camp and the personal relationships of those involved may be one year or several, beyond which it may break apart and/or mutate into something else. In addition to impact from the environment, the cohesion and longevity of large camps can be affected by external pressures, such as public outrage over plug and play camps. There is a long history of crash and burn at Burning Man.

This year, there were apparently several camps which approached the point of meltdown as indicated by the resultant moop left on playa, which has sparked much a broader debate about the nature and character of large, well-funded "plug & play" luxury camps at Burning Man. The post-burn forensics of this internet-fuled drama of rumors on top of rumors has been challenging and time consuming. The first rule of Rangers is do nothing because what you think you see may not be what is actually occurring. And sometimes there are broader implications to a note posted on a bulletin board. We are now at a point where there is enough information to answer some of the questions that have arisen. Larry, always the consummate lucubrationist, has posted to the Burning Man blog about this issue. I have also conducted my own personal investigation into this matter and have come up with answers that may be more specific than some of those presented thus far.

My conclusion is that Burning Man broke Caravansicle. I might add that the individual who profited from Caravansicle will not be allowed back into Burning Man.

When I was finally able to confront Mr T. face-to-face, my first words to him were; "You really stepped in some shit." I believe that he truly regrets the wreckage in the wake of his camp. Mr T. started out with the best of intentions. Caravansicle was not intended to be commercial in nature. His goal was to fund and produce a large camp for friends and associates, much like the camps that he had done in the two previous years. But this year it was going to be grander and larger. His first mistake was to hire a professional camp producer from the commercial EDM world with no Burning Man experience. This is what brought in the sherpas and wristbands. His second mistake was having a bar so big and so public that it ran out of liquor. Nothing is worse than a half-drunk lynch mob. And I'm sure that the professional camp producer was surprised to discover no trash dumpsters at Burning Man. None-the-less, the camp producer took the money and ran.

The truth is that Mr T. lost tens of thousands of dollars on this failed project. That is not to say that the captain does not carry ultimate responsibility for his ship. While he has been quite capable of amassing a fortune in the world of venture capital, it does call into question if he is ready and able to help navigate the Burning Man ship. Then again, there is nothing like failure to add to ones experience. I think that having an 18-person board of directors is good in that it allows a larger pool to maintain overall management and guidance, which is certainly an improvement over the past when there were only 6 board members. I don't know what the outcome of all this be, but the rules of conduct for board members are spelled out in this document:
http://z9hbb3mwou383x1930ve0ugl.wpengin ... dn.com/…/B…

Gypsy Flower Power was another failed camp this year. It was doomed from the start because it was a scam operated by Jonathan Nut*** (jonnymoonshine12), a serial ripoff artist with a history of doing this at multiple events. This year, he bilked a bunch of first-time europeans by charging them for tickets, food and accommodations, which he never delivered. He also had no plan for (or intention to) clean-up after the event.

Bmorg is instituting new procedures/policies next year, which will bring all non-infrastructure plug-and-play camps under the theme camp registration process and hold them to the same standards.

Things on the internet are not always what they claim to be. The troll behind burners.me is a lone individual who made $50 million in the tech field. "Steve" (King"Z") owns several expensive homes in Australia, Europe & California. His private plane flies him into Burning Man each year where his big RV is waiting for him. He has no problem with hiring professional trolls like O. B. to mount sock puppet attacks. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

The transition of Burning Man from tontine to non-profit organization has taken more that six years. Thru all of this, no one in the organization is getting rich off of Burning Man. That will become apparent after the numbers for the non-profit are published. It's been a very complex process with many moving pieces, some of them not quite in place. The sole purpose of Decommodification LLC is to protect the Burning Man name and I've programmed it to automatically dissolve after its mission is completed. My primary responsibility is to the community of Burning Man and that has not wavered.

In the early days, Burning Man was like a lemur; small, agile, hiding from the authorities way out in the deep playa. Our nest was a Temporary Autonomous Zone. Today Burning Man is an eight hundred thousand ton gorilla with many mouths to feed. It's a network of departments and people, sometimes with competing interests. It's still evolving. It has lost much of its agility, but there are some advantages to size. We are now having an impact on the world at large and we have the power to change that world for the better.

Danger Ranger.


(note, i edited out real names to keep with the TOS)

[FIGJAM]

[media]

[Bless]

apparently, Simon is a "known troll"

[Simon of the Playa]

And I get the Directors of Burning Man bringing their drug orgy into contact with my corporate career

St*** "O"...

[Lonesomebri]

I just want to say one more thing regarding opinions, a quote I've always liked.

Opinions are like ass holes. Everybody has one, and they're all full of shit.

Everybody here as an opinion on the PnP situation. Whose to say who is right or wrong? I can honestly say that I have found something that I could agree with in everyone that has posted, and just as many things I might not agree with. My thoughts and opinions have changed and been shaped by everything everybody has posted. Yes, even you Lonesomebri. If we didn't care, we wouldn't be posting at all. Nobody should feel offended or uncomfortable because of something someone posts that you don't agree with, or that questions you on your opinions. That's how people learn and grow and consensus is reached.

I'm just glad you finally came around and realized how wrong and condescending you have been, and that you have now decided to try and learn and grow, not hinder and stall. Thank you Elderberry.
It took some time, but you had it in you to eventually be more open and honest..........................

[tamarakay]

And to think I almost gave you my spare ticket.

[mdmf007]

PnP is such a hot topic right now, mainly because of the large camps that put it front and center with their antics and poor representation. I think we can agree that some form of PnP has been around a long time. I believe we are at a crossroads and from here I can see some organized camps doing it right, getting along well with others and communicating; while other camps will eff it up and come across as entitled meccas of entertainment only for a week long rave in the desert. To be honest I know that PnP is not going anywhere. How we live with it and ingrain it into BRC certainly needs to be addressed sooner than later. My opinion only, not as a mod.

[Lonesomebri]

And to think I almost gave you my spare ticket.

I still love all of you.....and I would have insisted on paying. Yes, this whole issue would be so much better if not for moi.

Actually this is kinda funny. Through this whole affair my number one concern was that Burners I respected feel that I didn't belong out there, or that I had abused the privilege of being allowed to participate because of all my bitching and moaning. I felt horrible thinking I was pissing off the people who had helped me. Living up to a personal responsibility was on my mind.

And you know, that is the difference between me and some of these camps we are discussing. I'm not sure that they felt any pressure like that.

[Elderberry]

I just want to say one more thing regarding opinions, a quote I've always liked.

Opinions are like ass holes. Everybody has one, and they're all full of shit.

Everybody here as an opinion on the PnP situation. Whose to say who is right or wrong? I can honestly say that I have found something that I could agree with in everyone that has posted, and just as many things I might not agree with. My thoughts and opinions have changed and been shaped by everything everybody has posted. Yes, even you Lonesomebri. If we didn't care, we wouldn't be posting at all. Nobody should feel offended or uncomfortable because of something someone posts that you don't agree with, or that questions you on your opinions. That's how people learn and grow and consensus is reached.

I'm just glad you finally came around and realized how wrong and condescending you have been, and that you have now decided to try and learn and grow, not hinder and stall. Thank you Elderberry.
It took some time, but you had it in you to eventually be more open and honest..........................

Brian,

I haven't changed at all. Had you known me better, and I hope we do get to know each other better, you would have realized where I was coming from all along. If you felt I was condecending, I'll apologize for that, it might be true, but frankly I thought you might have deserved it. Again, sorry for that. We are both pretty opinionated, but I actually consider that to be a good thing. Just don't be afraid to have those opinions challenged.

[maladroit]

There will always be some people that love something by ripping out and waving in the air the ugly parts of it.

There will always be some people that love something by sticking their heads in the sand and ignoring the ugly parts of it.

[tamarakay]

It is possible to discuss issues without making fun of or belittling other people. Your ability to discuss a topic with someone with opposing views without resorting to poo flinging influences how others perceive you. Personal attacks dilute the conversation and make you look childish. It is possible that this behavior alienates those who might actually have the same beliefs as you on the topic.

[Ratty]

It is possible to discuss issues without making fun of or belittling other people. Your ability to discuss a topic with someone with opposing views without resorting to poo flinging influences how others perceive you. Personal attacks dilute the conversation and make you look childish. It is possible that this behavior alienates those who might actually have the same beliefs as you on the topic.

Well said.

[engineer2012]

Facts
Bm admits things went wrong with P&P
No tickets will be offered anymore via special sales
All camps will have the same placememt rules

So, yes, we were not amused, to say the least with the situation of this years burn regarding P&P.

However. We must face the future. Trust the org that 2015 will be under control regarding camps and placing. The message was clear and lout. Lessons were learned. And yes, some rich and famous will attent, with bodyguards and maybe some personnel. Just as in every city.

Point is, we, and only we, are the onces that matter. We make Bm what it is. The people we love, the art we love, the challenge we love.

Well, that's my humble opinion.

[Aurelia]

Eloquent and perfectly stated !

I do not know you ; but I would like you

The verbosity has been alienating even me.

xoA.

[mgb327]

Get off my lawn, ya damn hippies!

[Aurelia]

NO !

[Roundabout]

It is possible that this behavior alienates those who might actually have the same beliefs as you on the topic.

Yes. This.

[theCryptofishist]

So, am I understanding this right? Are Larry Harvey/Jim Tannenbaum blaming the dj?

[theCryptofishist]

Yes, I know that an "event producer" is not necessarily a dj. I just had to say it anyway. My kind of useless hit and run comment.

[Jovankat]

Has another statement been made? It sounded like Danger Ranger was blaming the "camp producer from the EDM world"
JT hired to run that camp

His first mistake was to hire a professional camp producer from the commercial EDM world with no Burning Man experience. This is what brought in the sherpas and wristbands. His second mistake was having a bar so big and so public that it ran out of liquor. Nothing is worse than a half-drunk lynch mob. And I'm sure that the professional camp producer was surprised to discover no trash dumpsters at Burning Man. None-the-less, the camp producer took the money and ran.

[theCryptofishist]

No, I haven't gone through and read all the original statements. I avoid Larry's prose like the pretentious college freshman screed that ate Toledo. Added things up wrong.
Oh well.

And while I'm here, I think what I hate about burners.meh is the tone. It's very sneery. Pots and kettles perhaps, but running that website seems like a big "I need a life" flag...

[digital]

And while I'm here, I think what I hate about burners.meh is the tone. It's very sneery. Pots and kettles perhaps, but running that website seems like a big "I need a life" flag...

He retired at 26. What else does he have to do but video games and blogs?

I agree though, a ton of pots and kettles over there.

[DrYes]

To be fair, I think he said he retired the first time at 26, then founded another company and has recently 'retired' again at 41.

[digital]

To be fair, I think he said he retired the first time at 26, then founded another company and has recently 'retired' again at 41.

I stand corrected!

[Aurelia]

It is the verbosity and arrogant self-righteous that offends me.

xoA.

[DrYes]

It is the verbosity and arrogant self-righteous that offends me.

xoA.

I don't mean to spend my time defending him, but I mean, do you really want to discount the work he does because of his style? I guess I'm more interested in the substance of what he's saying than whether he comes across as self-righteous or not. The latter can be ignored because it has no actual effect on anything, whereas I'm reading what he's saying for the substance.

I get why people find him to be overly negative but to my mind he does serve a purpose, and a valuable one. The BMORG spends a lot of energy convincing us of their pure (defined by them) intentions, and sometimes the numbers just don't match up. I'm glad Steve is out there trying to hold them accountable. And after all, as a non-profit with good intentions, why wouldn't they welcome being held strictly accountable?

For whatever it's worth, I wrote a shortish post about the Danger Ranger vs. Burners.me controversy.

[digital]

For whatever it's worth, I wrote a shortish post about the Danger Ranger vs. Burners.me controversy.

I can't seem to get the site to load. Is it me? Would love to read it.

As for Steve, his post was a bit long winded. However, I felt it was sincere and I'm glad he posted it.

[Aurelia]

Well now the error is mine because it was not Larry I was speaking about. I should have been specific
I was so tired of the SS verbosity and self~righteous attitude.

I support the project and its success.

xoA.