Population cap increase???

[omegared]

Not really sure where to post this so feel free to move it anywhere admins... How exactly can the population cap of the event be increased? I understand it has a lot to do with environmental impact, traffic, and the self-sustainability of the event (volunteerism)... but how does it actually happen? And is it possible to increase the population cap beyond 70,000? I guess the BLM has the final call, but if we all LNT I don't see any reason why the event can't expand at will. Traffic is a concern...

[theCryptofishist]

From what's been said, traffic is the concern. If that's correct, then the event's growth would need the vehicle passes to encourage a lot of carpooling and high occupancy vehicles.

[Elliot]

From what I have read over the years, traffic is the concern. The road can carry only so many cars per hour.
Based on that primary restriction, I have long advocated lengthening the event to spread traffic over more days, and in recent years we have seen small moves in that direction -- primarily the earlier "soft" opening of entry, first by six hours a few years ago, then by another eight hours in 2014. Improvements have also been made in Exodus traffic, though I don't know quite how that has been accomplished.
While Exodus traffic has been the biggest problem for Participants, I suspect Arrival traffic is more important because this is when the public highway can become jammed.

[lucky420]

Fuck, it is big enough as t is now.

Oh my god, it's HUGE!

[some seeing eye]

My burning man is bigger than your burningman! It's huge!

(There are BLM/environmental impact statements released each year representing the negotiations on the population. You can search for them. Yes traffic is the current limiting factor, and the vehicle permits as a solution worked. Lifting the population cap will have minimal impact on the ticket shortage.)

[theCryptofishist]

(There are BLM/environmental impact statements released each year representing the negotiations on the population. You can search for them. Yes traffic is the current limiting factor, and the vehicle permits as a solution worked. Lifting the population cap will have minimal impact on the ticket shortage.)

There has never been a Burning Man EIS, unless you think that the Wilderness Area was a de facto Burning Man EIS. There have been a number of Environmental Assessments. They used to do them yearly, as part of the permit renewal process, but now they they do it every five years.

This has been a service of your annoying pedantic internet friend network.

[some seeing eye]

Who we love for that!

[omegared]

What happened to the vehicle pass money from this year? It is my understanding that this was the first year vehicle passes were required. It would be a step in the right direction if this money went to the communities that are impacted by the event. Kinda greasy politics but they would be a little more inclined to turn a blind eye to a caravan of burners clogging up the road if we're putting a little $$$ into their pockets. I do agree with the idea of the idea of making the event longer... gives people more time to come and go. From what I've read this was one of the most flawless Exoduses (How do you say that, is it Exoduses or Exodi) on record. Perhaps the steps taken to alleviate traffic this year actually worked... Hey even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes...
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[Elderberry]

Hey, maybe the nonprofit could build a new 4 lane highway to the event and donate it to Nevada.

[trilobyte]

I'm moving this to the Tickets Discussion board, since that's a better fit.

To answer your question, I recommend doing some reading. The afterburn reports, BLM's own permitting documents, and the published Environmental Assessment from a couple years back have all that information in pretty exhaustive detail.

[LionsNzebras]

Light reading for anyone that is interested, after a quick google.....

https://www.blm.gov/epl-front-office/pr ... ng_Man.pdf
https://www.blm.gov/epl-front-office/pr ... ng_Man.pdf
https://www.blm.gov/epl-front-office/pr ... nal_EA.pdf
http://www.governmentattic.org/13docs/B ... n_2014.pdf


Lots of cool information in the PDF files, they are all public record and can be easily accessed.

[unjonharley]

P T Barnum " This way to the great egress "

This is much more fitting for this years theme..

[Elliot]

P T Barnum " This way to the great egress "

This is much more fitting for this years theme..

I remember the steady and heavy traffic "to the Great Egress" in 2012 -- lots of ticket-buyers who had heard how wonderful TTITD was in 2011, and then bailed when faced with the real thing. That one exit lane on Gate Road looked like the Los Angeles Freeway at rush hour all week. Good chance the same will happen with the "Simpsons" crowd. I have 50 cents that says the population will peak on Thursday.

[unjonharley]

P T Barnum " This way to the great egress "

This is much more fitting for this years theme..

I remember the steady and heavy traffic "to the Great Egress" in 2012 -- lots of ticket-buyers who had heard how wonderful TTITD was in 2011, and then bailed when faced with the real thing. That one exit lane on Gate Road looked like the Los Angeles Freeway at rush hour all week. Good chance the same will happen with the "Simpsons" crowd. I have 50 cents that says the population will peak on Thursday.

Doing my dance to the great dust spook in the sky daily...

[Elliot]

I love the smell of Playa Dust in the morning!

[omegared]

My favorite part of setup for the Florida regional this fall... choking on playa dust while setting up my tent. And I thought I did a good job cleaning it out

[Jovankat]

I have 50 cents that says the population will peak on Thursday.

When does it usually peak? I would think it would already be around Thursday as the weekenders arrive but before those that leave early have left.

[maladroit]

I think the Simpsons crowd will be offset by the stories from first-timers who got stuck in the mud this year. It was pretty exhausting to spend 24 hours waiting in line, even having planned for that possibility by having all the essential gear readily available. I ran into plenty of people who had planned to just cruise in and meet up with their camp, I was even gifting sunscreen.

[Elliot]

I have 50 cents that says the population will peak on Thursday.

When does it usually peak? I would think it would already be around Thursday as the weekenders arrive but before those that leave early have left.

Oh... I don't actually know, but I suspect the natural peak would be on Saturday evening, for the Man Burn.

[unjonharley]

Isn't the gate closed to new arrivals on Thur. or Fri..

[Wrath]

Hey, maybe the nonprofit could build a new 4 lane highway to the event and donate it to Nevada.

Fleet of airships.

[burner von braun]

Isn't the gate closed to new arrivals on Thur. or Fri..

I remember this came up briefly in a thread somewhere around here a year or so ago. I had thought that I had read in the past that the gates close at some point before the Man burn, but I ended up with the impression that this is no longer the case.

[robbidobbs]

Don't even get me started on the volume of shit vs the virgin population impact. There are logistics factors beyond just exodus. I may be talking out of my ass, but I know that I'd need more full time volunteers. Fuck, I KNOW I need more volunteers.

[Sham]

I may be talking out of my ass, but I know that I'd need more full time volunteers. Fuck, I KNOW I need more volunteers.

Robbidobbs, you crack me up!

[caro.]

BLM has issued a five year permit for the event that dictates the population maximum for that term. I emailed the BLM last year about it, just out of curiosity about the approved population, and they emailed me back. I was also able to pull the permit itself, but have since forgotten how I found it.. it was on the BLM website i believe.

Here is an article on the permitting that gives a little more information on it in a more palatable form than the permit itself: http://www.recordcourier.com/news/12474 ... blm-public

[Elliot]

All the documents are on the Burning Man website, under "About Us". But I see that they have not posted the 2015 documents yet.
http://burningman.org/network/about-us/ ... documents/

[theCryptofishist]

BLM has issued a five year permit for the event that dictates the population maximum for that term. I emailed the BLM last year about it, just out of curiosity about the approved population, and they emailed me back. I was also able to pull the permit itself, but have since forgotten how I found it.. it was on the BLM website i believe.

Here is an article on the permitting that gives a little more information on it in a more palatable form than the permit itself: http://www.recordcourier.com/news/12474 ... blm-public

It's definitely on the website; I had no trouble finding it, but that's a side-effect of my job.

[LionsNzebras]

All the documents are on the Burning Man website, under "About Us". But I see that they have not posted the 2015 documents yet.
http://burningman.org/network/about-us/ ... documents/

I believe that all their stuff coveres the 2015 season

[caro.]

BLM has issued a five year permit for the event that dictates the population maximum for that term. I emailed the BLM last year about it, just out of curiosity about the approved population, and they emailed me back. I was also able to pull the permit itself, but have since forgotten how I found it.. it was on the BLM website i believe.

Here is an article on the permitting that gives a little more information on it in a more palatable form than the permit itself: http://www.recordcourier.com/news/12474 ... blm-public

It's definitely on the website; I had no trouble finding it, but that's a side-effect of my job.

haha.. glad you did. didn't spend too much time trying to re-look for it since i was at work.

[mdmf007]

How many people and vehicles can we evacuate in the freak chance it is necessary in 24 hours? that is the driving force of your cap. In addition there are policing, sanitation and safety concerns as well. The permit language lays out the thinking pretty well.