Bike Builders Unite

[Canoe]

... "monstered out" for the playa on the 24x2.4 ...

Different worlds.
I just worked (in my front room) with two bikes and a spare wheel set, to switch from working on a 4.5" on 100mm, to pulling a 3.8" on a 100mm off, and a 3.7" on a 47mm off, to put the 3.8" on the rear 47mm to run tubeless, so I can throw it on the front of a bike with a 4.5" on 100mm rear.
Sorry, but your 2.4" looks so skinny to me.

[Captain Goddammit]

I've got the Mongoose fat bike coming on Tuesday, the 2.4s for the trike were the fattest 24" tires I could find. Are there fatter ones?

[Tiahaar]

nice looking trike!! well dangit you could go 24x3 on the rears and mod the fork to fit them too....for instance 24x3 or cheaper24x3

[Canoe]

Larger tires are not common, but in 24" there's 3", 3.5", 4" and 4.5". I've seen 20x4, but haven't noticed 20x3 (but check the post above).
You start needing a wider rim at some point. I run 3.7 & 3.8 on 47mm, but that's the limit. I read that one guy managed those on 42mm, but had issues. Below that (someone tried 35mm and 32mm), forget it. I also run 3.7, 3.8 & 4.0 (nearly 4.5 wide) on 100mm rims.

Also remember that the circumference increases too. The 26" 4" wheels have a similar height as 29er wheels, ~30" rolling diameter. Means some people are getting 29er wheel sets for summer use on their 26x4 fat bikes. 24x4 is ~27" rolling diameter. Where you fit a 24x2 now, might take a 20x4.

But not for the fork... You'd need a larger fork.

[Captain Goddammit]

Wow they make them that fat? Goddamm I wish you hadn't told me that!
At least tell me they're too expensive...

[Canoe]

Pretty easy to manage that.

You'd have the cost of the tires, you already have a hub that works with that axle, now you need a rim that will work, and it needs to have the same spoke count as the hub. And you'll need new spokes. Likely a custom roll (custom length, rolled to create threads) instead of a standard size, so you need a shop with a spoke roller (can be ordered online too, so you can get some shipping costs in there too). There's "strongest" double butted spokes, but the most robust are something like http://www.sapim.be/spokes/butted/strong, if the hubs will take them. And you'll want to use a quality nipple too.

If you're going to carry a load on the trike, you'll want a strong wheel. So the rim will have to be able to take the tension required to make a strong build.

And speaking of strong builds.
At 6:52, you can hear the spokes creek & crack, as they become properly seated under load.

Normally, you do one of two (I do both) techniques for seating the spokes while you tension the wheel (so it's properly tensioned and stays that way). Maybe they didn't, or maybe the extreme load meant that it settled in more.

[Canoe]

p.s.
People are buying the Massif with 20"x4" tires just to get the wheels, or even just the tires & rims.

[Captain Goddammit]

Seems to me you could cut bike wheels in half and use aluminum bar stock to widen them all you like. Then just use motorcycle tires, castaways that aren't good enough for the freeway but plenty good enough for a bike... or car tires...
And how about using rims from motorcycle wheels?
I'm from the hot rod car building world... you (Canoe) know more about bikes... edjumacate me on some of this stuff; is there any reason you can't just put your own threads on the ends of the spokes with a thread-cutting die, like you do on everything else?

[Canoe]

I know bits & pieces, but I don't have comprehensive knowledge.

I'd see no reason other than overbuilt-weight when using motor cycle rims. Same for cutting and extending. But I have heard of people welding two, and even three, bicycle rims together, both in steel and in Al, before wide rims where available. Don't know how that would work out with tubes...

The spoke rolling machines make them threaded by cold-rolling. Cold-rolling is supposed to be superior (to ?), and allows a shop to buy bulk unthreaded stock lengths, then cut and roll them to custom sizes. I've had to get some spokes length changes, and they just cut them and re-rolled. Worked great.

I don't know the thread size, nor how it compares to the stock thickness of the part of the spoke that gets/is threaded, so I don't know if you can use a die. Never heard of it being done that way. I expect there's a reason, but I don't know it.

[Captain Goddammit]

My interest in making an extremely wide rim has nothing to do with practicality, it's 110% about being cool looking
If I did the weld-two-rims-together thing I'd just put in two tubes.
I suppose if I were to make some fat rims I could just do away with spokes and make a five-spoke steel "mag" style rim. Perfect balance isn't very important because I'd never get it going very fast.
If I ever build my custom fat chopper or trike, BRC is probably the only place I'd ever ride it.

[Elliot]

You are talking about the sort of wheel-building we have been committing for decades in Kinetic Sculpture Racing.

[Navi_Keef]

If I did the weld-two-rims-together thing I'd just put in two tubes.
I suppose if I were to make some fat rims I could just do away with spokes and make a five-spoke steel "mag" style rim. Perfect balance isn't very important because I'd never get it going very fast.
If I ever build my custom fat chopper or trike, BRC is probably the only place I'd ever ride it.

I dont think it is as easy as using 2 tubes, and making your own rims and then trying to align it perfectly to weld in mags sound more trouble than it's worth. just use dirt bike wheels and weld up a way to mount them. you're a hot rodder, im sure you could piece something together pretty good that would be easier than making your own wheel.

[unjonharley]

Just make dually's..

[Navi_Keef]

does anyone know anything about transferring power from a source that is not mounted onto the wheel? im wanting to power some wheel lights from a battery under my seat that will be powering everything else, i found this kit but it s wayyy too expensive to even consider buying. http://glowcandybikelights.com/product/ ... light-kit/

[maladroit]

Just use slices of logs

[Elliot]

does anyone know anything about transferring power from a source that is not mounted onto the wheel? im wanting to power some wheel lights from a battery under my seat that will be powering everything else, i found this kit but it s wayyy too expensive to even consider buying. http://glowcandybikelights.com/product/ ... light-kit/

Years ago, I built a Ferris wheel as a Christmas decoration, and I also lit the wheels of a large tricycle for Christmas parades. In both cases I fabricated "brushes" -- spring-loaded followers what rubbed against contacts on the axles. Both the followers and the slip-rings were copper plumbing bits, insulated with plastic plumbing bits.
A similar arrangement might work for you, scaled down, of course.

[captain voltaveus]

I just got in the mail today a Trike conversion kit off of ebay that a local bike co-op here in Portland says will be able to be fit to my Mongoose Dolomite. They seems totally casual about their ability to bend the rear stays to fit the width of the kit, which is of course set up for a standard cruiser. My plan is to switch out the coaster hub from the kit and keep it geared with a Shimano mega 34T. Some ape hangers, lights and a trusty el wire lightning bolt and I'm ready to go!

A couple of questions:

Any tips out there on the cheapest source for fatty rims? I'm gonna need one more.

Should I have the confidence to try and lace my own wheels just cause someone on You-tube says I can do it? Am I just fooling myself that this seems doable? This seems like an opportunity to save money and drink IPAs in the privacy of my own basement over the next few weeks.

Thanks!

[Elliot]

...

Should I have the confidence to try and lace my own wheels just cause someone on You-tube says I can do it? Am I just fooling myself that this seems doable? This seems like an opportunity to save money and drink IPAs in the privacy of my own basement over the next few weeks.

Thanks!

It must have been in the 1960s when I took a flying leap, down in my parents' basement, and started lacing up a wheel.
.
.
.
.
.
.
And finished it shortly thereafter, all nice and straight and everything!

That said, only you can estimate your abilities at the current stage of your learning. But I recommend aiming a bit high, as I did back then, and you just might surprise yourself, as I did.

[maladroit]

Any tips out there on the cheapest source for fatty rims? I'm gonna need one more.

Find someone else doing the same project and split a Beast between yourselves

[Captain Goddammit]

My Dolomite arrived today, I've yet to tear it down and report on whether it came with any grease on any bearings.
Holy crap those are big tires!

[Navi_Keef]

Any tips out there on the cheapest source for fatty rims? I'm gonna need one more.

ebay, front wheels will run you about $115 and of good quality
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Weinmann-DHL80- ... 566f93fc70

[Canoe]

... Any tips out there on the cheapest source for fatty rims? I'm gonna need one more. ...

47mm trials rim
works fine
rounder tire profile for steering too
one example http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/daily- ... st11715574
a couple more http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/drilli ... st11695846


but you need a wide fork

or, the dolomite is on sale right now for 199 - free shipping to your place, or the Walmart store closest you
buy it, take the front wheel with its 100mm rim, and a matching fork, part the rest out
you'll have a wheel and fork with disc brake

[Canoe]

... My plan is to switch out the coaster hub from the kit and keep it geared with a Shimano mega 34T. Some ape hangers, lights and a trusty el wire lightning bolt and I'm ready to go!...

Don't forget that the Shimano 34T megaranges are Alpine: a progressing range, with a gap from 24T all the way to the granny 34T.
You can custom stack (a non-riveted) Shimano to get the 28T back in, or look into the other freewheels that end with 24T, 28T 34T. Much more usable.

And the front chainring should be able to be swapped for a Mtb triple, for 22-32-42T. You can manually switch between 32T and 22T depending on the terrain and your load.

ape hangers are nice
consider Elliot's suggestion of BMX bars
similar, comfortable

[Captain Goddammit]

the dolomite is on sale right now for 199

Well fuck me... RIGHT after I order one...

[captain voltaveus]

I purchase a Wally Dolomite, and found two 26X4 wheels / rims / tubes & tires on ebay for $119. That seemed like a screaming deal. The trike kit was $150. Unfortunately, the kit of course won't fit the Dolomite frame. A local bike co-op here in Portland ordered me two trike hubs and I plan to put the Dolomite fork and wheel into my furry chopper from last year, then slide in the trike kit. The only obstacles I see so far are:

1. not knowing how to lace a wheel, but I figure between you-tube, trial and error and being in Portland that I'll either be able to sort it out or get bailed out by one of the many wheel builders in my neighborhood.

2. I need to braze onto the steel frame an attachment to bolt the disk brake to. I have an appointment next week with a frame builder to help me out as I suspect my ability to nail that precisely on my first try is suspect.

Keeping it cheap is going to be important as I just laid down $800 for a presale ticket!

[Ratty]

the dolomite is on sale right now for 199

Well fuck me... RIGHT after I order one...

Walmart is one of the stores that offers a price adjustment if it goes on sale after you buy it. It wouldn't hurt to ask.

[Captain Goddammit]

the dolomite is on sale right now for 199

Thanks for pointing that out!
As it turns out, the First Mate called them up and they refunded me the difference, so I ended up getting it for $199.
Far out!

[Canoe]

... A local bike co-op here in Portland ordered me two trike hubs and ...
1. not knowing how to lace a wheel, but I figure between you-tube, trial and error and being in Portland that I'll either be able to sort it out or get bailed out by one of the many wheel builders in my neighborhood...

check the spoke count on the hubs vs. rims

build your wheel: have fun and do it right
lacing is easy
getting the spokes set and the tension correct so you have a strong wheel...
http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php
http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/support/fatbike/




And this one seems to be the calc of choice at the moment at the Fat Bike forums
http://kstoerz.com/freespoke/

[captain voltaveus]

Thanks for the wheel lacing vote of confidence. It seems worth a try for sure.

[Captain Goddammit]

Target has the Dolomite on sale for $191.99!!

About the cheap wide wheel... I'd take a couple old mountain bike wheels and cut them each into about 1/3 - 2/3. Use the two bigger pieces. Get some aluminum flat stock at H-D, bend it around the wheel into a circle. Then carefully file-fit like you would a piston ring, until it will just exactly pound inside the two rim halves. Rivet it all together, drill spoke holes, lace it, and you have a very cheap wide wheel in your own custom width.

You won't have $25 in it.