New theme camp layout plan

[halo_in_jeopardy]

We're taking a big leap and are planning to submit our first theme camp application in about a month (gulp!). In the application, we have to submit a lay-out plan of what the camp is going to look like (as seen from above).

Here's are a couple of basic dumb questions that I just am not easily finding the answers to ...

(1) How deep are the standard "blocks" in BRC -- that is, going from say, E to F along 8:00, how deep is that block? (200 feet?) If we think that we would want half a block in depth, how many feet is that? (100 feet?)

(2) Assume that we're going to have, say, 20 people, with 8 cars, two RVs, tents, yurts, a rental truck with our stuff, etc. ... plus we're going to need space for a "public area" for our activities, and some "private space" for food and hanging-out, etc. So ... about how much "street footage" are we going to need?

That is, if there's about 20 of us with normal kinds of stuff, and we're going to be one-half block deep, what would be an average amount of footage along the street?

(Saying, "it varies widely" doesn't really help ... how about some normal ranges, like "20 people normally can fit comfortably in a 100' by 300' footprint" or something like that!)

[Ratty]

Have you studied the available maps. This appears to be an ago old question.

viewtopic.php?t=20522

The dimensions have changed as the city grew so you will need to look at something current. Google Burning Man map and look at the moop map.

[Jovankat]

The application last year gave you options for how much square footage you wanted and indicated about how many members they assumed would go with each size option. I can't remember them all but I know 5000 square feet was the size suggested for 31-40 campers

Standard blocks are 200 feet across. Have a look at the 2014 MOOP Map, each of those little squares is 50 foot by 50 foot. For the most part camp space is allocated in multiples of those squares and you can see there are lots of different shape configurations.

For street frontage you should consider how much of your stuff is public and thus needs to be out near the street. Try to only keep the elements of your camp that you want the public to interact with on the street, that way you're not wasting valuable street side real estate on something that's not artistic/interactive. Personally I'd ask for only the very least amount of street frontage you need for your public elements and extend back deeper into the block for your private stuff. My reasoning for that is to keep randoms out of your private areas and because Placement want the streets to be as interesting as possible and the easier you make it for them to place you the more likely they will. Of course though if you extend back far enough you'll hit the next street.

Oh and MEASURE EVERYTHING! Then use those measurements in your layout to be sure it all fits. Don't be the camp who didn't measure something they were bringing and find when you get there that it won't fit. You'll be in theme camp land so if you encroach on your neighbour's space without asking/before the gates open they will be well within their rights to complain to Placement or if they haven't arrived yet Placement will see it for themselves when they pace out your neighbour's space when they arrive. This happened to our camp this year and while we weren't too fussed Placment were not happy with the offending camp. Especially since they moved the flags to try and hide it.

[halo_in_jeopardy]

@Ratty - did a lot of looking around and studying maps! Didn't find an "official" answer anywhere that I had bumped into yet!

@Jovankat - thank you, a wealth of information ... the most important of which (to me anyway) is that the application itself will contain this type of information.

Based on the maps I've looked at, it did look like the blocks were 200 feet deep and that a half-block was therefore 100 feet deep ... nice to get confirmation. I agree with you Jovenkat - the plan is to put the public area up along the street, and fit the living area/food area/showers behind and around it.

Also, it will be very useful to know the amount of square footage normally suggested for 20-25 people? Jovenkat, your figure of "5000 square feet" for 31-40 people must be off? That's only about 150 sq. feet per person? That's barely enough for a small tent for that person and leaves no room for food prep, bikes, car parking, hang-out space, public area, etc. It would seem more like 50,000 square feet for 31-40 people?

Anyone have a good estimate of the amount of square footage "normally" given to a camp of expected size 20-25 people?

[Meat Hunter]

Find a large open area at you home; you and your camp mates can then measure, layout and arrange all the different components of your camp and your mind will then be at peace.

[Elderberry]

Find a large open area at you home; you and your camp mates can then measure, layout and arrange all the different components of your camp and your mind will then be at peace.

Haha. That's funny.

[Elderberry]

Oh and MEASURE EVERYTHING! Then use those measurements in your layout to be sure it all fits. Don't be the camp who didn't measure something they were bringing and find when you get there that it won't fit. You'll be in theme camp land so if you encroach on your neighbour's space without asking/before the gates open they will be well within their rights to complain to Placement or if they haven't arrived yet Placement will see it for themselves when they pace out your neighbour's space when they arrive. This happened to our camp this year and while we weren't too fussed Placment were not happy with the offending camp. Especially since they moved the flags to try and hide it.

This actually happened to us one year. I'm not sure if it was because we didn't plan and measure properly or if we just had a lot of last minute people deciding to go. We ended up having to park cars in unreserved areas and I think we lucked out and were able to negotiate some space with neighbors that had the opposite happen so they had extra space.

[zorro sings]

@Ratty - did a lot of looking around and studying maps! Didn't find an "official" answer anywhere that I had bumped into yet!


Anyone have a good estimate of the amount of square footage "normally" given to a camp of expected size 20-25 people?

Bottom line is that it depends on where they end up putting you. They might have an odd lot here or there that is just perfect for a first time camp with 20-25 people. We have around 20 campers and large infrastructure and are just fine at 150' x 100'. I think if you were to ask for 30 K and get it the location would be less desireable than the one you could have got at 15K.

[Just_Joe]

Anyone have a good estimate of the amount of square footage "normally" given to a camp of expected size 20-25 people?

We have around 20 campers and large infrastructure and are just fine at 150' x 100'.

We've had 20 people (6 RV's) in a 50x100. It can be a little tight getting the rigs in and out because of differing arrive/depart times. You end up needing a "road" that cuts into your 50' frontage.
On the other hand, if you ask for (and get) too much space you will have to guard against squatters and people taking shortcuts through your camp.
You are ultimately responsible for anyone who camps in your allocated space, and my experience with uninvited guests who manage to squeeze into our space up at 3am on Friday morning has not been pleasant.

[Ratty]

Your measurements may vary wildly. Last year the 3 of us took up about 40 by 100. I'm guessing. The space around us didn't fill up so we never felt guilty. Hey! We each come alone and bring tons of stuff. This year there will be 6 of us. 2 organized. 2 on the fly and 2 over prepared. I have no idea how much land to mark off.

[LowePro]

Hi,
There are some good posts from the last few years on Theme Camp applications, look around in the 2014 and 2013 sections as well.

Last year's form listed "up to 12000 sq ft for 21 to 30 campers". I don't know if this number will be the same in 2015 or not, but it's a place to start.
Either way, only request as much as you need. Maybe you don't need that much based on your vehicles and camping configuration. The less space you ask for and the more justified you are in your request, the better your chances of getting what you want. The Placers are very good at interpreting your camp plan and determining if you're being realistic or not.

Side tip--try to get more than 2 people per vehicle, on average. If you have 20 campers with 8 vehicles+2 RVs+rental truck, your average is less than 2 people per vehicle, which consumes a lot of your real estate and leaves less room for your fun stuff. Also carpooling, gas, pollution, vehicle fee, save money, all that jazz.....

Also a tip--if your camp is anything like ours (and many others) you will end up with Friends-of-Friends asking to join your camp as the summer goes forward. Think about this now--how are you guys going to deal with the guest list? If your Placement application is approved, you will have a finite boundary of Playa-estate and you can't just expand into the neighbors' sites. How many more tents and cars can you cram in and still do your events? Who will be in charge of saying Yes or No to new campers? This is a sticky situation for some camps, but it's good if you and your team can think about it now so you don't get caught offguard when your camp doubles in size the 3rd week of August. Good luck!

[Simon of the Playa]

lay your claim.

[some seeing eye]

This is easy to do in free drawing and layout software, or start with paper cutouts at say 1/4" or 1/8" to the foot scale and just experiment with your campmates on different layouts. Leave space for guy lines.

Actually the Europeans did their camp layout for Africa 130 years ago with no knowledge of the facts on the ground. So it should be easy for you to do better.

[Jovankat]

@Jovankat - thank you, a wealth of information ... the most important of which (to me anyway) is that the application itself will contain this type of information.

Based on the maps I've looked at, it did look like the blocks were 200 feet deep and that a half-block was therefore 100 feet deep ... nice to get confirmation. I agree with you Jovenkat - the plan is to put the public area up along the street, and fit the living area/food area/showers behind and around it.

Oops I cut the "1" off when I copied and pasted and being in feet that number means basically nothing to me so I didn't notice. So yes it should have been "15000 square feet was the size suggested for 31-40 campers"

[lucky420]

I claim Madagascar

[halo_in_jeopardy]

OK ... so here's what I think I've learned so far ...

-- For purposes of theme camp placement, each BRC block is divided into 50’-by-50’ “squares”.
-- Theme camps are allotted a certain number of “squares” based primarily on the number of people expected as well as any special needs the camp might have.
-- Camps allotments can range from one 50x50 square up to dozens.
-- Camp “footprints” are usually rectangular (for example 2x3 squares or 4x10 squares), although there are occasional odd shapes (like L-shapes).
-- Each 50x50 square is 2500 sq. ft. … so a camp allotted for example six squares will have a total of 15,000 sq. ft.
-- It looks like default size for a camp of 30 happy campers is about 15,000 sq. ft. (six squares).
-- We can apply for more, but risk getting reduced in size or being placed in a less desirable setting.

How am I doing??

PS: Yes, I expect that the person-to-vehicle ratio will be at worst two per vehicle, and probably will be much better.

[theCryptofishist]

You just want to be close to Lemur, Lucky.

[trilobyte]

Typically, the placement team works in 50 foot increments when it comes to most theme camps. There are some exceptions with things like the plazas, portals, and areas around center camp, but the bulk of placed camp space works in those units of measurement.

More info, as well as guidelines about frontage and space usage, will become available when the placement questionnaire opens up for 2015 (it opens in early March). You'll have plenty of time to read through it and adjust your plans, historically the questionnaire stays open until the last week in April. Good luck!

[lucky420]

You just want to be close to Lemur, Lucky.

[Zubeneschamali]

Options, in no particular order, however my personal preference is the third

"sphere of influence".

"eminent domain"

"get all your neighbors stupidly drunk and move in"

Fail? pack it up and go spa in Reno.

[Rusted Iron]

The aspect of the camp design that is giving me trouble is the new 12' fire lane required this year. We've always had a driveway on one side of the camp, to allow entry and exits. The sample shows 3 different placements for exits but only one for entrance and that is in the center of camp. I've been moving rectangles and squares around in Photoshop but I can't get everything in our camp to fit, particularly all the features that have to have street frontage.

We typically get 100x150 feet... I wonder if we can get more for the fire lane. I wonder if it has go go through the middle...

[trilobyte]

Ooops, I overlooked this. I've moved it to the Shelter & Camping board, since that's a better fit for general planning and preparation discussions. Feel free to post a thread announcing your camp on the 2015 board when you're ready.

Rusted Iron, my understanding is that the fire access road requirement only applies to the larger camps and villages. Other than Esplanade, all the streets are only 200' apart, so most "normal" sized theme camps would easily be within range of a hose coming from the street.

[Rusted Iron]

Well, I finally got everything to fit. If we don't need the big fire lane, we can shrink it when we get out there.