Lag screws vs everything else...

[maladroit]

Lag bolts for the win! We had a variety of drills and impact drivers, all worked just fine. We guyed our 16 foot tall tower with HD ratchet straps and lag bolts, didn't budge.

Can you be more specific (the more details, the better) about the tools you used that worked? Especially interested in the non-impact drills that worked...you might save someone some money if they don't have to buy a new impact driver for next year.

[The Rod]

I brought my set of Makita 18v cordless drill and impact driver. Both worked, the impact driver seemed like the tool wasn't working as hard, but not huge difference. Maybe there was a difference in driving time between the two but I wasn't bothered to notice it. One camp mate brought his 18v Dewalt hammer drill which also drove 'em in ease peasy. I brought my pair and asked the guy to bring his Dewalt so (a) we'd have enough tools for several people to work at once, as many other camp set-up tasks required drills and drivers and (b) so we'd have back-ups. One of the other handy-guys in camp also had an older Makita cordless drill, maybe his was 14v? Dont remember, it had a little less gusto than the other drills but still sunk those bolts easily. We also had a corded drill in camp as back-up back-up but it never got unpacked. A generator to recharge the batteries was essential as we drained several setting up and striking camp. I have heard that the Makita chargers handle the modified sine wave of an inverter a lot better than other brands, that could potentially shorten the life of the batteries, I do not know for certain though...

Short story: A regular drill works just fine, if you already have one there is no need to go out and buy an impact driver.

[skippy3k]

I used an impact wrench powered by my generator to drive the lag bolts in. When it came to tearing down, I was going around taking the bolts out with the same tool. Then I discovered some lag bolts were already removed. I looked ahead of me and a neighbor who was helping me tear down had grabbed my 18v Bosch cordless drill and was removing the bolts. So....it works, but I can only imagine the stress on the tool. (Although I greatly appreciated him jumping in and trying to help.)

[FossaFerox]

Having set quite a few of them by hand with a crescent wrench while our impact wrench cooled off, a power tool isn't strictly necessary. Next year we're bringing a pair of speed wrenches to test how they handle the job with me and my transportation lead driving them in. We're still bringing the impact wrench for the bulk of the work, but our setup is also monstrous compared to what most of you use (118 bolts this year, a mix of 14" by 3/8" and 18" by 1/2").

[mattcamp]

Random question here from a foreigner...

Where do you get the chain links to put the lag screws through? Is this the sort of thing I can somehow buy at Home Depot or similar without also having to buy a hacksaw/something and cutting them all myself?

I'm going to need 20+ of them so would rather find somewhere that can cut them into 2-link units for me.

[FIGJAM]

I had some random small lengths of chain that were to short to use for anything.

I used a grinder with a cutting wheel instead of a hacksaw.

[Canoe]

Bolt cutters?

(right in the store - if they're not busy...)

[Elliot]

Some hardware stores use an extremely-slow hydraulic cutting tool for their chain sales. (Probably very safe, but....) So you might want to inquire first, and cooperate with them to get this done at minimal cost.

[ygmir]

bolt cutters is what I use. you might look into repair links, too. there are several styles.
or, take the chain to the bolt cutter section, cut it and pay for it, and just say you were testing the bolt cutters........

[maladroit]

I cut about 40 two-link chains in an hour, it was easy. Just chuck one end of a link in a vise, make a cut with a good sharp hacksaw, grab the free end of the link with vise-grips and twist until the gap is big enough to remove the link. The size of link that fits a 3/8" lag screw is easy to bend with a foot or so of leverage.

[Popeye]

Home Depot will cut the links for you. Not quick and you have to find an employee "trained" on their machine but..

[pretty_monster]

would it be a total fucking disaster if i used 12" bolts? i've got a 12x12 shade structure and i'm planning to put 2 at each corner (plus 4 - 8 regular tent stakes at the base of my structure that go through loops in the canopy cover.) i can hardly justify spending $50 - $80 on 8 14" bolts, let alone whatever ungodly price is charged for 18" bolts.

[LionsNzebras]

would it be a total fucking disaster if i used 12" bolts? i've got a 12x12 shade structure and i'm planning to put 2 at each corner (plus 4 - 8 regular tent stakes at the base of my structure that go through loops in the canopy cover.) i can hardly justify spending $50 - $80 on 8 14" bolts, let alone whatever ungodly price is charged for 18" bolts.

Lollergirl, I did not think so but GC and Kowtow convinced me otherwise. There is a thread on the other board regarding the whats and whys.
If you already have the 12s.......

I got 35 14 inch bolts for 2.4 each CDN. Yup was still 80 bucks. Will PM you the details.

[SnowBlind]

i can hardly justify spending $50 - $80 on 8 14" bolts

The site that was linked earlier in this thread (www.fasternersuperstore.com) has 50 14" bolts for $50 plus shipping.

[FIGJAM]

Pool the cost with your Burner buddies!

10 apiece oughta do it.

[mattcamp]

I'm looking to use lag screws this year to secure a 20' tall structure.

I'm concerned that a single 1/2" x 18" screw might not be sufficient for the wind loading so I'd like to somehow use several screws on each guy line (3" ratchet straps with a breaking strain of 5400lbs).

Anyone have any good suggestions on the best way to do this? (or ideas on what the pull-out force required might actually be for a single 14" or 18" screw?)

[LionsNzebras]

I'm looking to use lag screws this year to secure a 20' tall structure.

I'm concerned that a single 1/2" x 18" screw might not be sufficient for the wind loading so I'd like to somehow use several screws on each guy line (3" ratchet straps with a breaking strain of 5400lbs).

Anyone have any good suggestions on the best way to do this? (or ideas on what the pull-out force required might actually be for a single 14" or 18" screw?)

I saw an image in this thread Posted by FossaFerox (viewtopic.php?f=277&t=68556&start=150)..... that showed a bar with what looked like a ratchet strapp attached, and 3 (what looked like lags) went through said bar, then the ratchet strap attached to the center of that contraption.

The limiting factor would be the attachment to the ratchet strap in that case.

I have no clue what the pull out force of a 14 or 18 inch lag would be..sorry.

[krly]

It was so long ago that I started reading the first post of this thread......what was the final consensus for the cheapest EFFECTIVE, CORDLESS wrench to handle the 14" screws ?
Thanks
KRLY

[The Rod]

Jesus Harvey Fucking Christ.

10 pages isn't that long to skim through to find your answers to the questions that were answered 5 fucking pages ago.

If you people would do just that, instead of rehashing this shit over and over there won't be 20+ pages to skim through when next years assholes want us to do it for them.

[LionsNzebras]

Jesus Harvey Fucking Christ.

10 pages isn't that long to skim through to find your answers to the questions that were answered 5 fucking pages ago.

If you people would do just that, instead of rehashing this shit over and over there won't be 20+ pages to skim through when next years assholes want us to do it for them.

touche brother touche

[FIGJAM]

Yes, 10 pages ain't that much.

viewtopic.php?f=280&p=1057508#p1057508

[AZ-Dave]

Lollergirl.

I see you are in Phoenix. Call Copper State Bolt. Google them, they have a few location here in Phoenix. They will have the best pricing.

Dave

[FIGJAM]

Those prices look high to me.

http://www.fastenersuperstore.com/partN ... Steel-Zinc

[pretty_monster]

i went ahead and ordered a box of 10 12" bolts for $6 from WholesaleBolts. i made do with a jumble of POS tent stakes last year so surely this is a step up. and since i only need 8, a box of 10 means that i can triple up on the windward corner(s).

any suggestions on what sort of drill to use???

[maladroit]

The biggest, baddest drill you can acquire.

A 1/2" impact driver will definitely do the whole job. It spins until it encounters enough force to cam-out a clutch, which whips a heavy wheel around to dump a full rotation's worth of energy into a few degrees of rotation...thereby multiplying the torque applied to the screw.

A big hammer drill might work too, but not guaranteed. It has a lot of cams that push a weight away from the bit and then let it slam back in the direction of drilling. They are designed to chip out hard materials like concrete, while the actual drill spiral is mostly there to remove the chips. All the vibration may help get the lag screw into the playa, but common thinking is that it may fracture the underplaya you're trying to screw into for anchoring strength.

A large normal power drill might do the trick...it depends how large, and how much torque can be applied, and how much torque YOU can apply to the drill. Things may start off well, but once you get down to the hard underplaya you might need to finish the job with a socket wrench.

For 12" lag screws, you might want to scuff away any powdery loose playa before you drill, and put them in as deep as possible...maybe even put the heads 2" below the surface. Just make sure you can find them again!

[pretty_monster]

The biggest, baddest drill you can acquire.

A 1/2" impact driver will definitely do the whole job. It spins until it encounters enough force to cam-out a clutch, which whips a heavy wheel around to dump a full rotation's worth of energy into a few degrees of rotation...thereby multiplying the torque applied to the screw.

A big hammer drill might work too, but not guaranteed. It has a lot of cams that push a weight away from the bit and then let it slam back in the direction of drilling. They are designed to chip out hard materials like concrete, while the actual drill spiral is mostly there to remove the chips. All the vibration may help get the lag screw into the playa, but common thinking is that it may fracture the underplaya you're trying to screw into for anchoring strength.

A large normal power drill might do the trick...it depends how large, and how much torque can be applied, and how much torque YOU can apply to the drill. Things may start off well, but once you get down to the hard underplaya you might need to finish the job with a socket wrench.

For 12" lag screws, you might want to scuff away any powdery loose playa before you drill, and put them in as deep as possible...maybe even put the heads 2" below the surface. Just make sure you can find them again!

i was trying to give A-RockLeFrench an aneurysm but...

good to know. thanks for the info

[Elliot]

...my corded DeWalt DW292R did a fine job with the 3/8 x 14 lags.

Granted, buying this drill and a generator to power it seems a bit silly for six bucks worth of screws.

[maladroit]

Yeah, I am confused by people paying so much attention to the lag screw prices, as they're not the most expensive part of this plan.

[Just_Joe]

Yeah, I am confused by people paying so much attention to the lag screw prices, as they're not the most expensive part of this plan.

Yes, but if you've just got a few, it can be pretty inexpensive.
Lollergirl, pound them in with a hammer until you meet some resistance and then turn them with a good ol' ratchet wrench.
It shouldn't take more than a couple minutes per screw at most.

[pretty_monster]

pound them in with a hammer until you meet some resistance and then turn them with a good ol' ratchet wrench.
It shouldn't take more than a couple minutes per screw at most.

tis the plan. good to know it's a legit plan.