Ticket Question \ transfer \ names

[Jenifersteppat]

Well said danibel.

[LionsNzebras]

Thank you for your opinions they are all duly noted. I guess I never thought about it the way some of you have clued me into, I appreciate that, thank you.
Especially the taking the time to make it happen, taking the time off work to be there on time, to be prepared to sit there and click click click to get that ticket that you have worked hard to get.

[mgb327]

Interesting thread. I bought 2 early tickets because I can do that, financially. I work very hard for my money, and save all year for this. I did it mainly to take the stress out of my pre-burn months. I don't care what they do with the extra money, if it subsidizes LITs, great. Whatever. I remember reading the TOS for the tickets this year and was surprised they set it up this way. Whatever, it is not my ability to make Bmorg policy. I believe in the Golden Rule and Karma. I was so over-prepared for the SECOND those tickets went on sale. I did everything in my power to be certain I could have a good chance at acquiring my two tickets. I wept a bit after seeing I had successfully purchased my two tickets. I hope all of the "regular ticket" people are successful. I will not be competing against you when that second hand sweeps up to 12 o'clock. I personally, IMHO, would not game the system, as I call BM "home". I agree with Trilo, who I have the utmost respect for, as he has to put up with us and remain somewhat "civil". I don't think I could do that job. An old motto that has been the cornerstone of my business..."take the low road and get paid once, take the high road and get paid a thousand times".

[tamarakay]

See, the deal is. You could save, and plan, and strategize all you want. but people who do all that will get a sorry you are sold out message. Personally, I AM selfish enough to want the people I love to be there with me. If I had the Bucks I'd be buying tickets too.

I don't think you are an asshat or a jerk.

[pink]

I pretty much agree with all of the above. When I've been financially able, I've bought presale just for the peace of mind factor. two years ago I also bought a presale for a friend that couldn't get the money up for a ticket and gifted the difference in price. Oh those heady days of extra cash!

One thing no one's mentioned is just having another computer in the process during the main sale. You haven't experienced it, but the main sale has been a clusterfuck ever since I started buying online. Before the sell out when I had $$, I never bought tickets the day they went on sale, since I was going to buy the highest tier anyways. Every extra computer that is trying to log in is making it harder for the rest of the ticket buyers.

[Jenifersteppat]

They are doing it to get cheaper tix, not to get their loved ones who tried and failed to get tix on the playa with them. Big difference.

[gaminwench]

I'm with TK on this one.

As I read the OP's responses, I'm getting that he/she has campmates who are unable to participate in sales due to unavoidable circumstance.
He/she is merely getting tickets for said campmates, at both price points; not to profit/gauge/game the system, but to ensure campmates getting tickets.
I'm pretty certain this is SOP for lots of burners/camps.

Hoarding tickets, without having campmate buyers lined up in advance, is a different thing entirely, in my book.

[omegared]

See, the deal is. You could save, and plan, and strategize all you want. but people who do all that will get a sorry you are sold out message.

GOOD POINT!!! The entire reason I bought my own personal ticket in presale this year.


Oh yeah WOOOOOO!!!! 100 posts!!!

[digital]

I'm with TK on this one.

As I read the OP's responses, I'm getting that he/she has campmates who are unable to participate in sales due to unavoidable circumstance.

The OP sounds like reasonable human being who is trying to do the right thing.

It was omegared's comment that made me throw up a little. Trying to refund himself monies by selling higher priced presale tickets only after he secures individual sale tickets for himself. Fuck that.

[Ratty]

I too am planning to be selfish. I camp alone but my neighbor on the playa from Canada is an integral part of my experience. IF I get two tickets and she gets none I'll sell her one of mine. If we both succeed on ticket day I'll sell it to one of you guys. I bet that eplayan won't call me a hoarder or say I gamed the system. I didn't buy a vehicle pass in the pre sale because ticketing told me not to. Lots of you guys did buy one. Does that make you evil? No. Do I feel bad asking for two tickets? Yes. But it's not over the line of things I'm willing to do for my vacation.

I won't 'pretend' to work just to arrive early. I won't masquerade as a poor person to lower my ticket price. Quietly in my mind I wish all 100 or so eplayans that I know would get an extra ticket and sell them to each other as needed. Think of it as being voted ON the island. OK. Now that is over the line. (I hope the thought police weren't listening).

[Jenifersteppat]

Ratty, you aren't buying presale then going to try for reg sale and unload your expensive tickets at the expense of other burners.

[omegared]

Presale ticket: ($800) Mine
Main Sale Ticket #1: ($390) Gift to virgin burner friend
Main Sale Ticket #2: ($390) Gift to campmate, depending on her finances she may not be able to go.

So yeah if Friend #2 can't go I'm going to try to sell the presale ticket.

Buying 3 tickets and gifting away 2... I guess that makes me an asshat.

[Ratty]

No. But personally I need one ticket and I'm going to try and buy two. That would prevent someone else sitting at their computer from getting one. It's nothing to be proud of but I can live with the shame. All I want is to hug every eplayan this year.

Didn't it take quite a while for pre sale tickets to sell out this year? Self reliant burners were on in the first hour and bought their ticket. Some people don't have the money so close to the holidays. Maybe later in the year some burners will be very happy to buy an $800 ticket. I know I wouldn't turn one down if all my other options fell through. I wouldn't care why they bought it. Only that it was the real deal and that I would get to take a week off in the desert.

[Jenifersteppat]

Ratty, this doesn't bother me at all. There is something about having the means to buy presale but trying to by reg sale then selling your expensive ones (thereby screwing burners sitting at their computers) that just stinks and seems way more shitty. I'm a ticket relativist.

[The Rod]

Holy crapola. Talk about first world problems.

Watching the privileged bicker the ethical gymnastics of hoarding Burning Man tickets is almost as entertaining as watching my hogs fight over a pile of rotten zucchini. No matter which way you slice it a burner with a ticket (or three) in their hands equals a burner without. Scarcity ain't fun, but it's the current scenario.

Those who plan, go. Those that don't can always buy their way in at the last minute, I know a gal who paid $1,000 for one ticket last year 3 days before the gates opened. Who here is going to give into that temptation to pay for their trip with their extra ticket(s)?

Not me. I ain't going this year. One less asshat taking tickets from the hands of needy burners. Have fun fighting for moral superiority.

[Jenifersteppat]

^^^^This made me laugh really really hard!

[Melonblue]

The fear of missing out is powerful.

makes people do rash things including buying very expensive tickets, and when the adrenaline wears off...the bill comes due.

[Just_Joe]

I just hope no one hogs the tickets from the guy who left the gallon of urine in our campsite, or the people who broke all the porta handles/lids, or the person who stole a bike from the private area of our camp, or the guy that graffitied my friends art installation. Or Pink Jesus.
Fair is fair.

[trilobyte]

It isn't abusing the system at all.

Though in my personal opinion when someone buys the presale to hedge ther bets (where they buy the presale, and then try to sell that presale on at full face value once they've secured cheaper tickets at a later date) is an incredibly jerk-tastic thing to do. All claims of nobility or helping others go right out the window when they expect someone else to foot the bill for it. Fuck those people.

So what we have here is 2 things.
I have re-written this post about 9 times..I dont want to come across as an asshat here...

The fact is that not everyone in our group(s) will get tickets, but do have funds to do so. Their reasons are their own. (lack of internet, away that day whatever)
We have the ability to buy tickets and hold them for others.

Yes absolutely our plan is to sell the presales tickets to others in our group if we get regular tickets, or to keep one of the presales tickets and meet our group half way. (this is most likely the case)

What I am struggling with in this thread is the fact that people think its morally wrong for me to sell my presales tickets at face value?
How is this wrong in any way?
Because I have this ability and others dont?
Because I now have tickets that another person cant get?


Please explain how this is wrong.

Yes, while the system would allow such a transaction, I personally think you would be morally and ethically wrong.

There's no problem with having the ability to buy the higher priced tickets. Hell, congrats on both having the means and wanting to help offset things like the low income program and keeping ticket prices for the masses from increasing by a larger amount. All those things are wonderful.

However, from what you're saying you don't actually give a damn about any of those things. You're just a person who wants to get his first, and then if you can get cheaper tickets first you'll foist the $800 on some poor desperate person after the regular priced tickets have sold out. Once you've done that, then not only will you have not actually helped to offset the low income program or keeping ticket prices low (the person you sold your presale ticket to will have), but you will have preyed on the desperate to do so. Sure, it's entirely possible that someone who buys a presale ticket in the aftermarket was another really well off burner who just couldn't be bothered to remember to participate in the presale when those tickets were available, but the chances are much greater that it will go to someone who could not afford the $800 ticket, but after not having any success in the main sale are desperate to try and figure out a way. Preying on desperation is wrong, in my personal opinion.

MOD EDIT - I hope you do not mind Trilo, but this is as close as I can come to a "Like" MDMF You articulated what I wanted to say perfectly.

[Dr. Pyro]

On an off-question, one of our campmates who is "good to go" with DGS tickets was informed by the powers that be to "turn on your Burner Profile". What exactly does that mean and how does it do it?

[AntiM]

One of our guys had to go log in and "wake it up". Mine had been sleeping too, so I updated the years I attended and it was fine.

[Just_Joe]

There's no problem with having the ability to buy the higher priced tickets. Hell, congrats on both having the means and wanting to help offset things like the low income program and keeping ticket prices for the masses from increasing by a larger amount. All those things are wonderful.

Tiered pricing sucked
Presale sucks (sorry "rich" people)
Low income sucks (sorry,"poor" people)

I'd be willing to bet that very, very few people spent the $813 on a presale because they wanted to "help" some other poor burner get a ticket at a lesser price.
Now we are sitting here passing judgement on them.
Just like we are going to do in a month or two on the people who try for a low income, and when they don't get are able to "afford" a $390 ticket.

Creating a class system based on ticket price seems to hurt the event more than help it, IMHO

[Lonesomebri]

Yeah, I took a $800 ticket out of the hands of a more deserving Burner for myself, and another to insure a friend to go. Last year I had to beg for a ticket here, and this year I chose to not take that chance. I wanted to be self-sufficient this year so I bought, well with-in any Borg guidelines and BM ethics, a ticket for myself and an extra, the minute I could, without gamble on a later cheaper ticket. The extra ticket was insurance that the person who covered me in 2014 had a ticket. If they get one I will probably give or sell at a discount that ticket to my buddy, in exchange for their good will. Bartering.... Which, as we should all know, is not included within the 10 Principles. My friend who attended in the past, but not sure of now, doesn't even have internet. How unethical am I for covering for him? If I snag a $390 ticket, it will be for a friend also, not to hedge my financial obligation. Someone I know and like and want there. I am going to eat the $800 ticket I bought, and if the past is any indication of the future, I will also pick up some of the cost on any ticket I buy, which will be going to a deserving Burner, someone who wants to bring it, not someone who has the money necessarily. I will have to live with the guilt of knowing I attended along with friends while others did not. I will manage.

The thing is, the way it is purposely set up by the people in charge, we know that blocks of 8 tickets for $800 are being bought up for clients. This bickering of good-hearted conscientious Burners over a ticket here or there is small potatoes, a distraction, mis-placed guilt and damn near bumps up against the conspiracy thread. Sure, beat each other up over it, but save some of that energy for larger violators of whatever ethics are being evoked here.

[omegared]

Sorry, but I had to voice this... After ticket sales are done and it's all STEP and 3rd party there's gonna be frantic posts about "I NEED A TICKET FOR SO AND SO WHO HAS BEEN TO THE BURN FOR 13 YEARS AND (Insert desperate ticket hungry story here)." I spent 4 months camped out in the Tickets for Sale forum last year to get a ticket because I failed to get a ticket in the main sale. After the sale the best advice anyone could give is "Work ePlaya and your regional networks, if you want a ticket you will find one." I eventually found a presale ticket for sale on ePlaya. If no one buys extra tickets in case their campmates might need one, why is everyone telling people this? I understand some people buy and then may not be able to attend, but I don't believe that factor alone justifies how many tickets change hands after ticket sales.

[The Rod]

Well, yeah. Basic human reaction to scarcity. When there's not enough to go around and you have them in your grasp, grab as many as you can.

Tickets. Food. Weapons. Money. Whatever.

If in the end you end up with extras you could always share em with your friends. Way better that they go to them than some person you don't know. Safety in numbers and all that...

[digital]

If in the end you end up with extras you could always share em with your friends. Way better that they go to them than some person you don't know. Safety in numbers and all that...

Or, ya kno, you could sell 'em at $800.- a pop. Fuck the bourgeoisie. I have Le Golden Tickets. They don't. Profit.

Viva la revolución!

[MrBeardy]

This is getting good!

[mdmf007]

Hedging your bets is cool and all, but what you are doing is screwing two other people and forcing them into buying tickets at the presale price.

My opinion here - mod hat off, but it appears you had the means to buy the presale tickies (even though it bit your wallet) and now want to buy 2 more tickets at a lower price so you can offload the higher priced ones. What that does is remove 2 tickets from the general sale from someone else and puts 2 tickets at the higher price in the Q for sale. They will sell, no problem later this summer and there is a clear cut process for that with details and links to come.

Personally, i kind of find it distasteful, but your mileage may vary.

cheers.

[chuckularone]

If I can't get tickets in the main sale, I'd be happy to get my hands on an $800 presale ticket. I couldn't afford it then. I will be able to afford it in the summer. That's not going to stop me from diving into the main sale, but I like knowing that people like this guy have the tickets to sell.

That said, I have a blazing fast industrial data connection to the internet and doubt I'll have a problem in the sale.