Vehicle Pass Problem

[vargaso]

<>To the original poster:
You are in Seattle the largest concentrations of burners outside SF and LA. If you can't get a vehicle pass on the secondary market or carpool you (refrains from saying something bad here).
</>

The BLM and Nevada highway patrol are asking Burning Man to GROW UP AND BE RESPONSIBLE in managing traffic, if it wants to expand the population cap in 2016. That means that the BORG has to manage vehicle passes and not throw the system out out at the gate because of a few complainers. I would guess the BMORGs desire to raise the population cap is more important to the BORG (and to burners) than turning away people at the gate who know in advance they will be turned away.

Just as some burners bought early sale tickets and general sale, some burners bought extra vehicle passes because they were cheap. Make friends with burners who can connect you in person to the secondary market and to carpooling.

If you have a ticket and no vehicle pass, you can always sell your ticket to another burner with their transportation in order because they are GROWN UP AND RESPONSIBLE.

Many of us have an issue with the idea that Burning Man somehow needs to keep growing in size. We also have an issue with being told to carpool, when as we all know, the event uniquely requires a large amount of gear per person. Also, my wife and I sleep in our van. And carry the camp's shade structure on the van roof. And my drums, which I play both in camp and all over BRC, which people seem to enjoy. It's silly and disingenuous to encourage carpooling at fucking Burning Man, because that encourages LESS participation and creativity. If I had to carpool, most likely the drum kit would be staying in my garage. There goes my main creative act on the playa. Same with, say, someone with a fire sculpture, or any other kind of art that takes up space. Or maybe we should pay even MORE money to rent a trailer. Or, as per one of the Burning Blog's suggestion, we'll just charter a plane. HAHA!

[Dr. Pyro]

most likely the drum kit would be staying in my garage.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[skippy3k]

Or maybe we should pay even MORE money to rent a trailer. Or, as per one of the Burning Blog's suggestion, we'll just charter a plane. HAHA!

Ding ding ding! This year we ditched the RV in favor of pulling an equally long and ridiculous enclosed trailer so our MV and crap can make the trip. We are beginning to look like Pink Floyd's road crew with all the shit we are bringing.

[vargaso]

most likely the drum kit would be staying in my garage.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Ha! I'm sure many would agree with you.

[mickle]

I think you can safely assume you will be able to buy a Vehicle Pass at Will Call.

BMORG has never said there will be a limit to how many they sell. It is all just a scare tactic to try to get people to carpool and make them extra cash while pretending not to raise prices.

[Eric]

Some people bought VP's because they're still not sure if they're going with their group or having to go separately due to work (I know of at least one person in our camp like this). Once they get that sorted out, that VP might become available for resale. I'm sure there are, at minimum, several hundred other people doing the same thing. It's Feb, the event is at the end of August, not every job will let you know that far in advance how much time you can have off.

Panicking over Vehicle Passes right now is, quite honestly, a foolish way to pass the time. If you have tickets, you will get in the Gate - and I don't say this because of some Inside Secret Knowledge (which I don't have), but because any business would be facing a PR nightmare if they sold tickets but then didn't let people in. They'll figure something out if the resale market doesn't cover it.

[some seeing eye]

In past years I have commonly seen people offering or seeking a free ride (or some other non-monetary exchange) for a ticket or for a vehicle pass. Best way is to find them through your friends, camp or regional social media.

Personally I would not encourage people to show up at the gate in a vehicle without a vehicle pass hoping for a hail mary - unless the BMORG announces a way to do so. The idea that people would park outside and shuttle in means they would be part of exodus vehicles per hour.

All the "I saw _ on stub*b or bbay or CL" are meaningless because the tickets do not yet exist and it will be months before they do. I'm hoping a generation of common core teaching and testing math, reading and logic are going to improve things, because it cannot get much worse!

[AlexMN1984]

FYI, people are posting on Reddit that the presale is still open for vehicle passes. I didn't register for the presale, so I can't personally confirm it.

[skippy3k]

FYI, people are posting on Reddit that the presale is still open for vehicle passes. I didn't register for the presale, so I can't personally confirm it.

Presale as in Directed Group Sale? I was in DSG but don't see any option to get a VP. But I wouldn't be surprised because they announced it sold out.

[danibel]

Um.

I just sent an email to ticketsupport because I am able to see/purchase a VS (and tickets) off of my pre-sale code. I registered for one, but didn't use it because I can't really afford $800 a ticket, and I kicked myself for not buying the VS when I could. Now apparently I can, but I am wary. I do not want to fuck up any orders by buying a VS now with my pre-sale code.

I would happily (damn tootin') pay face value for a VS, though I would like to add it to my two ticket order in the individual sale to save $12 shipping, but hey, $12 right now would be cake compared to the $350 the damn things are going for on Ebay.

[AlexMN1984]

FYI, people are posting on Reddit that the presale is still open for vehicle passes. I didn't register for the presale, so I can't personally confirm it.

Presale as in Directed Group Sale? I was in DSG but don't see any option to get a VP. But I wouldn't be surprised because they announced it sold out.

My understanding is that they're talking about the December sale with the $800 tickets and $50 vehicle passes.

[socks2]

This pain and misery is brought to you by BM.org

[garybertz]

why not sell the 35000 vehicle passes if only 27000 vehicle passes will theoretically come to burning man?.... Why put so many people in limbo?

[Elderberry]

why not sell the 35000 vehicle passes if only 27000 vehicle passes will theoretically come to burning man?.... Why put so many people in limbo?

I think the answer to "why not sell 35,000 vehicle passes" is that the reason they were even instituted in the first place was to help reduce the number of vehicles coming to the event and encourage other means of transportation like car pooling, burner bus, etc.

Though if they are pretty sure of the number of vehicles that will be coming, I guess there is no reason, except the one mentioned above, that they couldn't make 35,000 available as sucker bait and all the money needlessly spent on purchasing vehicle passes that won't be used could be used as donation money to the charity.

[fetishk]

FYI, people are posting on Reddit that the presale is still open for vehicle passes. I didn't register for the presale, so I can't personally confirm it.

Presale as in Directed Group Sale? I was in DSG but don't see any option to get a VP. But I wouldn't be surprised because they announced it sold out.

My understanding is that they're talking about the December sale with the $800 tickets and $50 vehicle passes.

what the people are saying is true. some of the presale link still works and vehicle passes and presale tickets are still available.

[some seeing eye]

Of 70,000 attendees, there are probably under 1000 using the airport, and 4-5000 using the Burner Express, a few hundred Green Tortoise. Perhaps the afterburn report will have the actuals, or the next BLM permit application. Probably about 15-20% of vehicles head North on 447. Still gate road to the 447 junction is limited to 1000 vehicles per hour. So 27,000 vehicle permits equals a 27 hour minimum exodus. Bump the population cap to 90,000 at the current ratio of vehicle passes to tickets and you are talking a 35 hour exodus minimum.

At at the ratio of 35,000 vehicle passes to 70,000 tickets, the ratio that some here are demanding, that would be 45,000 vehicle passes for 90,000 tickets, and a roughly 45 hour minimum exodus, to say nothing of the incoming gate waits.

I don't think it is possible to grow Burner Express and air transport fast enough to reduce exodus time if the population cap is raised. Raising luggage limits on the Burner Express is a good idea, but psychologically having the BE participants have to deal with their water personally rather than concierge-style is a good thing. 27,000 vehicle passes for 64,000 go by car participants is 2.4 average per vehicle. Get that up to 2.6 and you solve the ~2000 people who wanted passes but did not get them. The natural growth of the Burner Express year over year is equivalent to at least 500 vehicle passes.

If you are asking for increasing the vehicle permits you are asking for longer gate waits and exodus, no free lunch.

[FIGJAM]

It wasn't broke last year, so why tamper with it.

If 35,000 were ok'ed by BLM or whoever last year, there was no reason to "fix" it.

Exodus was a breeze.

If they don't all sell, fine.

[Melonblue]

Panicking over Vehicle Passes right now is, quite honestly, a foolish way to pass the time. If you have tickets, you will get in the Gate - and I don't say this because of some Inside Secret Knowledge (which I don't have), but because any business would be facing a PR nightmare if they sold tickets but then didn't let people in.

Nimbus and Lulu answered this question on the AMA reddit - their answer was
"Lastly, having purchased a ticket does not entitle the ticket holder to also bring in a vehicle. Yes, it is very real that Gate will turn away a car with no vehicle pass, even if everyone in that car is holding a valid ticket."


You might be right, I'm hoping so at least! I'm not panicking about it - but it does make me have to revisit some alternative plans like - adding a stranger to my car who may have a vehicle pass...


Random Story below - feel free to skip it:

Once upon a time, I was going to Seattle from Vancouver BC to do some shopping, a friend of a friend asked if they could some along, they wanted a ride to Pike Place Market. I was like sure why not? - turns out they had weed in their pocket...CBSA and their dogs found it - I got grilled for an hour and was given the list of things that would happen next by the Agent. That my car would be torn to shreds and impounded and I will be personally searched....I started to cry, I had no idea what or why this was happening....until the "friend of a friend" admitted that I had no idea and was just giving them a ride. I could have lost my car, my license, my rights to travel across the border for life, fuck..jail...all because I was "doing a stranger a solid". The friend of a friend was detained and arrested. I was turned around at the border and sent home with no further punishment. Just tears streaming down my face, the shock of my life, and counting my blessing that I am a law-abiding civicly responsible person and that the fuzz saw that and sent me on my way.

Now...I'm TRYING to learn to trust that people make mistakes and it wasn't done as intentional harm to me, it wasn't malicious and that the law and its enforcers can be hyper-reactive as a result of hyper-vigilance. Maybe my fear is misplaced or irrational. But my ignorance of someone else's possession in my car is MY problem. So I don't feel that I will EVAR take a stranger over the border again.

So while I was told my understanding of Radical Self Reliance wasn't well developed when I said "I was disappointed that the vehicle pass issue would thwart my ability to be self-reliant and not rely on anyone else" and it was explained to me that my resources should also include Communal Effort. So I do understand that also includes asking the community and engaging in hopes that someone has a spare one to sell.

Communal Effort will ALWAYS take a back seat to Civic Responsibility in my new experience.

I'll probably buy a spare one, if there is one to spare - but I will unlikely be offering a space in my car to someone I don't know who just happens to have a VP and they couldn't get a ride. (Trust is something I am working on).

[mickle]

[quote="Melonblue"]Nimbus and Lulu answered this question on the AMA reddit - their answer was
"Lastly, having purchased a ticket does not entitle the ticket holder to also bring in a vehicle. Yes, it is very real that Gate will turn away a car with no vehicle pass, even if everyone in that car is holding a valid ticket."
[/quote]

This is true, the Gate won't let you in without a VP. They will tell you to go back to Will Call and purchase a VP, and then return to the Gate for entry.

Unless BMorg specifically states that it will not be possible to purchase VPs at Will Call, then you don't have much to worry about.

[Changuar]

@danibel

Please let us know if you get a response. I am in the same situation and also sent them an email but have yet to hear back. I wouldn't want to do anything to get my golden tickets canceled but having the ability to buy a vehicle pass is incredibly tempting. Fingers crossed for good news.

[robbidobbs]

Whew! DONT PANIC! We're all still friends, it's only February.
Yes OP, this is your big op to learn radical self promotion and network. Thie vp isn't difficult. At all to acquire. Imagine if it was you got a VP but no ticket.
Go to Seattle meet ups. Get on FB. Have fun and enjoy this adventure.
Mel, thanks for the border story. I totally understand. Terrifying experience.

What did we learn kids: one asshole just burned down someone's trust. Don't be that asshole.

[trilobyte]

Radical self reliance is your friend! As per posted info and FAQ, participation in the presale (tickets or vehicle passes) does not prevent you from participating in one of the other sales. Meaning, it would not void tickets or passes purchased there. if you have further ticket support questions, please direct them to the appropriate people. See this post for more information.

The OP's question has long since been answered, I'm closing this thread up. If you'd like to continue discussing your experiences in the Individual Sale, please see this thread about the recap.