SOLAR LED FOR MY GEODOME

[nightbass]

Hi y'all,
I'm planning on building a 19 ft. wide x 9.5 ft. high, 278 sq. ft. 4V dome

I want my dome to look pretty and what better way to have it all lit up with beautiful lights! Something like this....
DOES ANYBODY have any idea how I can do this solar? There's a couple sites here and there telling me different things but I don't know I'm not an electrician. They have solar led lights on ebay from china but then again I don't know if I can trust that

I"ll be testing out my dome at Lightning in a bottle this year and hopefully burning man next year!
I'd appreciate anyone's help on this

[digital]

When you say "do solar" be aware that solar only works during the day when there is light outside. So, more accurately, I think by doing solar you mean to charge some battery during the day which will then power your electrical system at night. Strictly speaking your LEDs are therefore not powered by solar but conventional batteries. The batteries are themselves charged via a solar panel.

That said, do you have any idea what kind of diodes you wish to power? White? RGB? RGB+W? What kind of controller are you looking to run the lights? Do they need to be just on or do you want some kind of pattern? How many lights are you thinking? Enough to light the inside or some kind of full display for the camp?

Any additional information you can provide will assist in a recommendation. Also, budget?

[GreyCoyote]

My dome is a 4-V variant that measures 20 feet in diameter. If you use a reflective (or just white canvas) cover, you can light this with 20 watts or less. My suggestion is to put a 100 watt compact flourescent bulb at the apex that is powered by an inverter from a 12-volt battery. You can run this several days (multiple days really) on such a configuration.

Two things I would suggest you think about:

1). Put a hole in the middle of your dome cover so the hot air can get out. On the playa, this makes all the difference between a dome that is airless and HOT, and one that is cool shade during the heat of the day. The difference is amazing. The indians did this with tipi's, and you could learn from their wisdom. (FWIW, not only does my dome have a "smoke hole" in the top, it also has a 60 inch ceiling fan hanging from the topmost vertex and a monster swamp cooler in the doorway. Talk about plush and cool playa naps.... heheheh).

2). If you are doing a 4V, there are variants with less strut types that also allow you to have up to 5 symmetrical doors and give you an extra foot in width and 6 inches in height to boot. If you are interested, PM me. This variant puts less metal into the scrap pile and more into the structure where it is needed.

[nightbass]

When you say "do solar" be aware that solar only works during the day when there is light outside. So, more accurately, I think by doing solar you mean to charge some battery during the day which will then power your electrical system at night. Strictly speaking your LEDs are therefore not powered by solar but conventional batteries. The batteries are themselves charged via a solar panel.

That said, do you have any idea what kind of diodes you wish to power? White? RGB? RGB+W? What kind of controller are you looking to run the lights? Do they need to be just on or do you want some kind of pattern? How many lights are you thinking? Enough to light the inside or some kind of full display for the camp?

Any additional information you can provide will assist in a recommendation. Also, budget?

Yes yes of course! Sorry for not clearing that up. That's exactly what I want to do.
Diodes I really don't know to be honest. I'm not an expert with this kind of stuff soo I really don't even know what RGB means. I would like a controller for the lights. A pattern would be great and I would need just enough lights to fill the dome.
For budget I always prefer cheaper obviously but if it's worth it I'm willing to spend some big bucks on it. It all depends
Thank you

[nightbass]

My dome is a 4-V variant that measures 20 feet in diameter. If you use a reflective (or just white canvas) cover, you can light this with 20 watts or less. My suggestion is to put a 100 watt compact flourescent bulb at the apex that is powered by an inverter from a 12-volt battery. You can run this several days (multiple days really) on such a configuration.

Two things I would suggest you think about:

1). Put a hole in the middle of your dome cover so the hot air can get out. On the playa, this makes all the difference between a dome that is airless and HOT, and one that is cool shade during the heat of the day. The difference is amazing. The indians did this with tipi's, and you could learn from their wisdom. (FWIW, not only does my dome have a "smoke hole" in the top, it also has a 60 inch ceiling fan hanging from the topmost vertex and a monster swamp cooler in the doorway. Talk about plush and cool playa naps.... heheheh).

2). If you are doing a 4V, there are variants with less strut types that also allow you to have up to 5 symmetrical doors and give you an extra foot in width and 6 inches in height to boot. If you are interested, PM me. This variant puts less metal into the scrap pile and more into the structure where it is needed.

You have been PM'ed.....thanks man

[some seeing eye]

Look up chaser LED and variants. Search ePlaya for solar, read and understand. If you feel all that allows you to specify the solar panel, charger, battery, inverter sizes, do it. If specific questions, find someone local to you or ask specifics further here. Jump in, be an engineer, learn it all.

[digital]

Diodes I really don't know to be honest. I'm not an expert with this kind of stuff soo I really don't even know what RGB means. I would like a controller for the lights. A pattern would be great and I would need just enough lights to fill the dome.

As some seeing eye said, be an engineer and jump in. It's the best way to learn. It sounds like you have a year and a half if your plan is to come in 2016. Plenty of time to figure something out!

RGB means Red (R) Green (G) Blue (B). +W means White (W). Having these colors together in a diode allows you to program the full spectrum of visible color. If your aim is something simple, like lighting the inside of the dome, then this is not necessary. From your original post it sounded like you were trying to do something visual on the outside. This can get expensive as the individual diodes can be a few dollars each. E.g., Neopixels. They also require some kind of controller and programming. If you have the time and patience it would be a fun project to look into.

For simple lighting of a single color things get much easier. The big issue then is power. For me a single deep cycle car battery is fantastic and will last many days. Purchasing a solar panel just for this probably overkill as a charge or two from a generator throughout the week will do. It all depends on how much power you plan to draw. Another option is those cheap LED strips with a tiny solar panel and battery built in. They are not fancy but will do the job if inside lighting is your only goal.

[nightbass]

Look up chaser LED and variants. Search ePlaya for solar, read and understand. If you feel all that allows you to specify the solar panel, charger, battery, inverter sizes, do it. If specific questions, find someone local to you or ask specifics further here. Jump in, be an engineer, learn it all.

Oh I have and still am! It's tough where I live because I don't know anyone that does this kind of stuff that's why I'm here. Learning it all that I shall do !

[nightbass]

Diodes I really don't know to be honest. I'm not an expert with this kind of stuff soo I really don't even know what RGB means. I would like a controller for the lights. A pattern would be great and I would need just enough lights to fill the dome.

As some seeing eye said, be an engineer and jump in. It's the best way to learn. It sounds like you have a year and a half if your plan is to come in 2016. Plenty of time to figure something out!

RGB means Red (R) Green (G) Blue (B). +W means White (W). Having these colors together in a diode allows you to program the full spectrum of visible color. If your aim is something simple, like lighting the inside of the dome, then this is not necessary. From your original post it sounded like you were trying to do something visual on the outside. This can get expensive as the individual diodes can be a few dollars each. E.g., Neopixels. They also require some kind of controller and programming. If you have the time and patience it would be a fun project to look into.

For simple lighting of a single color things get much easier. The big issue then is power. For me a single deep cycle car battery is fantastic and will last many days. Purchasing a solar panel just for this probably overkill as a charge or two from a generator throughout the week will do. It all depends on how much power you plan to draw. Another option is those cheap LED strips with a tiny solar panel and battery built in. They are not fancy but will do the job if inside lighting is your only goal.

Wow duh! Haha I should of used my common sense on that one. Yea I've got a whole lot of time I definitely want to bring something cool to the event. Especially this year to my 3rd LIB
Now those cheap LED strips I've seen them around online, by not fancy what do you exactly mean? Are they boring? Not that bright? And if they're solar I'm guessing I'd have to put them on the outside of the dome?
Are these the neopixels you speak of? http://www.adafruit.com/products/1138
So this type of lightning is better but just requires more power?

[digital]

Now those cheap LED strips I've seen them around online, by not fancy what do you exactly mean? Are they boring? Not that bright?

By not fancy I mean single color, simple modes (on/off/blink), possible lack of brightness and/or reliability.

Are these the neopixels you speak of? http://www.adafruit.com/products/1138?

Yes. That is a strip of them.

So this type of lightning is better but just requires more power?

Not necessarily.

And if they're solar I'm guessing I'd have to put them on the outside of the dome?

Can't tell if serious or trolling... For solar to work, the solar panel needs to face the sun during the day to charge the batteries.

Make sure to search the forums. There are countless threads covering the basics.

[Papa Bear]

Hmm... you might also consider talking to the designers of the SoundPuddle.

[some seeing eye]

Nightbase, this is two independent problems you can solve in order. 1 x ribs of y length chaser strings each drawing q amps at 110v. 2 solar battery inverter system that can power it.
No whining.

[maladroit]

Find the tech geek in your camp, give them the money for the lighting budget, and let them take care of it...I am sure it will be awesome!

(I am that tech geek in my camp.)

[nightbass]

Now those cheap LED strips I've seen them around online, by not fancy what do you exactly mean? Are they boring? Not that bright?

By not fancy I mean single color, simple modes (on/off/blink), possible lack of brightness and/or reliability.

Are these the neopixels you speak of? http://www.adafruit.com/products/1138?

Yes. That is a strip of them.

So this type of lightning is better but just requires more power?

Not necessarily.

And if they're solar I'm guessing I'd have to put them on the outside of the dome?

Can't tell if serious or trolling... For solar to work, the solar panel needs to face the sun during the day to charge the batteries.

Make sure to search the forums. There are countless threads covering the basics.

Yea I know that what I meant was it would be best to put them on the outside of the dome cover instead of the inside of the cover for more sun exposure. Sorry I'm not specific enough so bear with me.

[nightbass]

Nightbase, this is two independent problems you can solve in order. 1 x ribs of y length chaser strings each drawing q amps at 110v. 2 solar battery inverter system that can power it.
No whining.

See none of that made any sense to me. That's why I'm here, to learn. No whining here.

[FIGJAM]

Most solar light strings will have 10' to 15' of wire from the little panel to the first light.

I have two 50 light strings that have been to the playa 4 years and they stay lit from dusk till dawn.

Got em at Harbor Freight for $15 a string.

[some seeing eye]

Nightbase, hang in there and thanks for being clear.

LED tech is evolving fast and reducing in price. If you want a simple chaser 20-30 feet, that is a thing you can search for. If you want a specific color pattern, search. If you want to write/but software to control the color of strips or individual illuminants, that is a little trickier.

Let's assume that all the strands are wired for 110. Very common. The strand will have a maximum Watts or Amps. Typically ~10 Watts or .1 Amps at 110V

Add the sum of all the string Watts or Amps, so maybe 200 Watts or 2 Amps for 20 of them.

Part 2

Specify a solar+battery system that can deliver your Watts or Amps.

Inverter must carry your 2 amps. Good idea to buy one with 2x your needed. The inverter volts in must match your battery volts out, typically 12V.
Battery must store 2 amps for how many hours you need, say 12 dusk to dawn. Double that even for a "deep cycle marine battery" 2 Amps x 12 hours x2margin = 48 Amp-Hours or at 12v about 600 Watt-hours. Let's use a common 12V battery.
Now you need a solar panel that can produce those 600 Watt hours over the 6 hours of good sun with a safety margin. So say 150 peak Watts of solar panel.
Then buy a charge controller for 12V batteries and matched to your panel specs rated for a minimum of 150 Watts of solar panel.

Or something like that. ePlayans can correct and adjust, thanks!

[digital]

^ A note on this.

Using a 12v batter > inverter > 110v LEDs is highly inefficient versus using 12v (or less, usually ~5v) LEDs and skipping the inverter. I'm not sure why anyone would choose 110v LEDs over 12v when both are easy to find. You will get significantly longer run times not using an inverter in your system. Also, most 110v LED strands do not use 110v LEDs. Therefore you would essentially be going from 12v > 110v > ~5v. Much better, imo, to skip the 110v step of the equation.

Please correct me if I've missed something here.

[some seeing eye]

Mr Digital is right.

12 V DC battery to 12 V DC lights is more efficient than 12V DC battery x95% efficiency to 120V AC x95% efficiency to ~2-6V DC LED. But even if the efficiency is 80%, there is an advantage to running standard plugs and extension cords at 120V AC, and you can plug other 120V AC devices in.

But hey, you decide!

[maladroit]

It's a minor power engineering problem. If you need to run 300W of LEDs 200 feet away from your battery....bumping to AC could save you a lot of problems with voltage drop or having to buy expensive and heavy wires for DC transfer.

For example, the situation above would drop about 6 volts (out of 12) in the wires even if you used #8AWG extension cords for welders. You'd have to use 1/0 gauge wire (about half an inch thick with insulation for each conductor) to drop about 1 volt (leaving 11 volts for your lights). That's an easy $200-$300 in one wire run.

So in that type of situation, sorry Edison...I'm going to take Nikola's side here and recommend a solution as inefficient as 12VDC battery -> inverter -> 120VAC -> regular extension cord -> 120VAC/12VDC power supply -> LED strips.

The inefficiency is sometimes secondary to actually working.

[digital]

Well now we're throwing in 200ft of extension cords into the mix! That was not in the original equation!

[maladroit]

Well now we're throwing in 200ft of extension cords into the mix! That was not in the original equation!

It's so often overlooked, I had to mention it. Many people never think about the wires, they consider them to teleport energy from one end to the other with no fuss. With high AC voltages, that's approximately the case for most situations, but high current DC is not the same. Not only do you get higher voltage drops due to the high current, but those voltage drops are a much larger percentage of the total system voltage. The same system above with 120V would drop from 120V to about 118.5V in the wire.

[trilobyte]

Given the number of strands of programmable, multi-color LED strips in that video, between the solar setup, the controllers, and the lighting you're probably looking at spending a little more than it cost you to buy both the dome and its cover. And that probably assumes that you can do the wiring and programming yourself. Maker Faire is a great showcase for DIY projects and kickass lighting technology, I don't know that you'll find any ready-made kits that do what you're looking at out of the box.

If you just want a single color light, or something that only does a solid color (or simple blink pattern), you can save yourself a small fortune by using normal (dumb) LED christmas lights or rope light. Dumb isn't meant as an insult, it just means simple and doesn't need to be addressable or programmed (think of that as smart lighting).

Whereas normal (dumb) lighting is just power source and lights, programmable (smart) lighting is power source, lights, and a controller (or driver). I've seen that rig and many others like it at Maker Faire, what I believe you're looking at is an arduino controlled system with a number of multicolor (RGB) light strands. Given that event space, it was likely running off AC power, but most arduino setups you can use either AC or DC power (it's whatever you design and build). As others have already said, if you want to design it for solar, you'll probably want to go DC... but if you're running off a generator, you will likely want AC.

If you've got the time and interest and REALLY want to make something awesome, go start researching arduino lighting. If you dive right in, you probably have enough time to make something pretty cool for the campout in May, and then you'll have the extra time to beef things up and also get really good with your arduino programming skills for your trip out to Burning Man next year. Good luck!