The VP mess

socks2 · Post by **socks2** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:28 pm

For the life of me I just do not understand why the BM.ORG does this to the general sale burners. It saddens me to see the grief this has caused not to mention its a gift to the scalpers. The presale or the plug and play sale allowed up to 6 tickets and 3 vp's per order. A 2 tickets to 1 vp ratio. Then it was the directed group sale or what I call the guest list Again it was a 2 to 1 ratio. But then the general sale went down and we find out the we the unwashed masses get a 3.3 to 1 ticket ratio. WTF
So imagine this your coming in from Europe you have your tickets, your airfare, your RV rental all this money committed and the only thing that is keeping you off the playa is a vp. What do you think they are going to pay for that vp. Scalper love this its a high return on investment and little down if the vp can not be sold
The vp's now are going for 200 plus dollars. The maddening part is its all self imposed. The BM.org could end all the grief and take the scalper out in one smooth move. Make the vp's available at will call. Done problem solved but I would still like to hear why the general sale burners got a 3.3 to 1 ticket ratio

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:54 pm

Well it's simple, they explained it all already. This will get everyone to carpool, solving the traffic problems getting in and out. Isn't it great when The Man takes a proactive step toward improving the future? It's just fucking fantastic!

Jovankat · Post by **Jovankat** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:11 pm

The number of vehicle passes available in each sale was based on how many VPs were bought in each sale last year.

some seeing eye · Post by **some seeing eye** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:54 pm

"free ride for a vehicle pass"

https://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic ... 17&t=73100

#firstworldproblem

The Rod · Post by **The Rod** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:35 am

So... We locked the other thread because it was time for people to stop talking about the inanity of vehicle passes?

Well here's another thread about the stupidity of the vehicle pass and current shortage! Because, well, they're stupid. and people like to bitch about the stupid decisions that the idiots in charge make.

But really, I can't understand why for gods sake the Borg won't sell more vehicle passes than they think will be used, especially if they've got the go-ahead for 35,000. If they sold 35,000 and only 27,000 were used then that's (8,000x50) 400,000 dollars. Bonus! Everyone likes more money.. Especially Larry's dentist.

Are they reserving 8,000 for internal vehicles? DPW, ESD and so forth? Maybe 5,000 for internals and another 3,000 for the OMG sale? Then that makes sense, there's a limited supply and they're all sold, just like tickets. And just like tickets they have five months to wiggle around and find their way into the hands of those who will use them?

Or, this is the stupid option: the Borg in its infinite wisdom decides to announce that VPs will be available at will-call, so people cross "get vehicle pass" off of their BM list, thinking they can get one on the way in, burners drive across the country and show up at will-call, buy a vehicle pass and drive on in only for the Borg to later discover they oversold VPs and accidentally let in 37,000 vehicles, pissed off the county and piled more cars into exodus? Or worse, Burners show up thinking they can buy a VP to discover they're sold out and the thirty five thousanth rig just drive through the gates... What then? Park outside and get shuttled in? Turn around and drive to reno? God, I hope it doesn't get that ridiculous... But then we'd have something to talk about here in September...

digital · Post by **digital** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:50 am

They are trying to mitigate traffic and environmental impact caused by too many vehicles coming to and leaving the event. Traffic is the #1 major issue facing our city. This has NOTHING to do with money -- it has to do with being good citizens to the surrounding communities and environment. It's really as simple as that.

But I understand your feelings -- The party must go on regardless of our impact. Stupid BMORG!

The Rod · Post by **The Rod** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:04 am

And I thought hippies were the number one issue facing our city...

vantim · Post by **vantim** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:24 am

I get the environmental and traffic reasons for the reduced vehicle passes, but I'm still stuck with an entire camp that didn't get vehicle passes in the sale. No vehicle passes for our cargo vehicle to get all of our camp gear in, for our senior campers for their RV or for anyone else in camp.

This worked fine last year, no aggravation over the vehicle passes. I understand their reasoning for reducing the number this year, but I honestly believe it was a mistake.

MrBeardy · Post by **MrBeardy** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:19 am

All Low income ticket holders can buy a vehicle pass in line at the gate. if you don't get one before the event just make arrangements with a low income ticket holder and your problem should be solved.

Straight from the souce "If you have been accepted to the Low Income Ticket Program you will be given the option of purchasing a Vehicle Pass when you pay for your ticket. "

TT120 · Post by **TT120** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:38 am

My 3 person crew only has 1 VP as well. There is no way in hell all 3 of us and our gear can fit in 1 vehicle. Since we've already purchased our tickets in one of the other sales, we're not eligible to purchase VP's in any other sale including the OMG sale in August. The BORGS response to this problem is just to charter a flight into BM. I guess when you uber rich like they are, you just can't comprehend that someone couldn't afford to "just charter a flight". The burner bus is not an option either because they wont let you bring a shade structure or anything beyond a couple suitcases. This is and has been a source of serious stress for me. Looks like we may have to just drive up without a VP and hope we can find an extra one at the gate.

Post by **trilobyte** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:06 am

It's interesting to point out that last year, people screamed very VERY loudly about vehicle passes, and the possible lack thereof. Even though passes hadn't sold out in the Individual Sale, there were many people with tickets that did not have a vehicle pass (for one reason or another).

In the end, there were plenty. So much, in fact, that 5,000 of the passes that were purchased were not even used. Speaking personally, that tells me that a large chunk of the population didn't really do jack to reduce the number of vehicles they brought. They just sandbagged their vehicle needs, over-bought, and hoarded vehicle passes. It's also worth pointing out that in the end, passes were being sold well below face and even given away by some.

It makes sense to me that if the overall city population was not going to be increasing over last year, they would limit the amount of passes in 2015 to the 2014 actuals... which is what they did (and said they were going to do). If people get no better at ridesharing or reducing the number of vehicles they'll be using than they did last year, there will be enough passes. I wouldn't stress out over not having a vehicle pass at this time. It's just a matter of the vehicle passes getting into the right hands. Many are holding passes they won't end up needing, but at this early stage they don't have rideshares and whatnot all sorted out. And there will be vehicle passes in the OMG sale.

Speaking personally, I wish there wasn't a limit on the number of vehicle passes. I also wish there wasn't a limit on the number of tickets, and that NVDOT would do us all a solid and widen the road so they could at the very least do 2 lanes in one direction coming in at the start, and going out at the end. But since we can't get the road widened (which is understandable, it'd cost a vast fortune), we have to suffer through the other two.

I'm sorry that it's a stressful situation. Hang in there. We open up our tickets/passes board as early as the system allows people to process ticket order changes, but we don't generally start to see people posting listings for unneeded tickets and passes until a little later in the season. Remember, even if people don't get any better at it than last year there will be enough passes to go around... and I'm pretty sure that a decent number of camps are looking for ways to get better. Keep your eyes open for listings as they appear (you can surf over to the Tickets/Passes Offered board and click on the 'Subscribe' button at the bottom left to be notified when there are new posts on that board), and there will be passes available in the OMG sale too (though hopefully you and your campmates get what you need before then).

Joeln · Post by **Joeln** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:08 am

from http://blog.burningman.com/2015/02/news ... ckets-did/

Vehicle Passes will be sold in the OMG Sale. In fact, there will be more VPs available than tickets. For those who have not purchased a VP from us yet, there will be an option to register to purchase just a VP — so if you didn’t get a VP in the Individual Sale, you’ll be able to register to purchase one in the OMG Sale.

TT120 wrote:My 3 person crew only has 1 VP as well. There is no way in hell all 3 of us and our gear can fit in 1 vehicle. Since we've already purchased our tickets in one of the other sales, we're not eligible to purchase VP's in any other sale including the OMG sale in August. The BORGS response to this problem is just to charter a flight into BM. I guess when you uber rich like they are, you just can't comprehend that someone couldn't afford to "just charter a flight". The burner bus is not an option either because they wont let you bring a shade structure or anything beyond a couple suitcases. This is and has been a source of serious stress for me. Looks like we may have to just drive up without a VP and hope we can find an extra one at the gate.

digital · Post by **digital** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:25 am

trilobyte wrote:Speaking personally, I wish there wasn't a limit on the number of vehicle passes. I also wish there wasn't a limit on the number of tickets, and that NVDOT would do us all a solid and widen the road so they could at the very least do 2 lanes in one direction coming in at the start, and going out at the end. But since we can't get the road widened (which is understandable, it'd cost a vast fortune), we have to suffer through the other two.

This is the whole issue. Right here.

I, too, wish the same thing. This is what holds the city back vis-a-vis limited tickets and vehicle passes. A four-lane road. Having been a transportation planner in a past life, your estimation of it costing a "vast fortune" is an understatement. We're talking 10's, if not 100's, of millions of dollars to widen and improve a nearly 88-mile stretch of highway. Plus, all those pesky (and expensive) environmental impact reports. Burning Man just can't fund this and neither should the State of NV.

Post by **Sham** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:12 am

As happened last year, once tickets started being delivered, there were lots of tickets and VPs being offered up at cost. No one is making them available yet, since they don't actually have them in hand. Further, many people are cancelling their plans because their cat coughed up a fur ball (or something like that).

misfit · Post by **misfit** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:13 am

>>>>The BORGS response to this problem is just to charter a flight into BM.<<<<

can you point me in the direction of where you saw this response to VP's........

TT120 · Post by **TT120** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:48 am

misfit wrote:>>>>The BORGS response to this problem is just to charter a flight into BM.<<<<

can you point me in the direction of where you saw this response to VP's........

Here is one of the places they said this. They've said it in several other places as well.

http://blog.burningman.com/2015/02/news ... ckets-did/

Melonblue · Post by **Melonblue** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:00 pm

Did the reduction in VP's set off a hoarding frenzy among those who don't even have a car to stick it on?
This is the first time that VP's sold out AND sold out before tickets. Clearly something has changed.

I get the OP's concerns, even if a bit premature.

Let's all be honest here, this adventure experience ain't cheap - my costs have broken the 2400$ (and I have no doubt some out there have doubled and tripled those costs in preparation) mark this month and I'm terrified it will be a decent chunk down the drain and an additional 1000$ if I'm last minute forced to alter my plans to fly to Reno and hop a burner bus without 50% of my kit, abandon my art projects, leave my gifts, and my shade structure...to rough it.

(and then try not to seethe in rage when I see "free VP" at the gate as a result of someone who turned an extra one in)

For some; VP's feel like the ultimate chokepoint. They already got the Gold medal (the entry ticket), but denied access to the podium?!
I think it is much more about some people's needs for certainty.
The "go with the flow, man" scares the bejesus out of some people, myself included. 20 years ago, sure maybe. Now - omg no.

Without a solid way of knowing how you're getting passed the Gate - Your plans get put on hold. That's very costly for some.
Every day flights/cars/trains/busses/friend vans - get more expensive and less available

I think; if they really wanted to reduce carbon emissions, road destruction, fossil fuel consumption...etc. Provide incentives! not deterrents!!!

- Raise the cost of VP substantially for those solo or dual passenger vehicles - like apply a $ "fine" at the gate for those who were unsuccessful at adding additional passengers to their vehicle
- provide an HOV lane for entry and exodus for those with 3 or more passengers.

Ragnar63 · Post by **Ragnar63** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:13 pm

Thanks for your post Socks2, we are exactly in the situation you explain. We are coming from France, we have 2 tickets and no VP, we have booked the plane and a car... And may be we ll don't see the Playa and the Man. It s a stressful situation, we have post a message on Tickets / passes wanted but no answer yet, we ll try to get one at OMG but it s in august, few days before BM.

Hope than all people with tickets will find a VP to go Home!

Post by **Eric** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:19 pm

TT120 wrote:
misfit wrote:>>>>The BORGS response to this problem is just to charter a flight into BM.<<<<

can you point me in the direction of where you saw this response to VP's........
Here is one of the places they said this. They've said it in several other places as well.

http://blog.burningman.com/2015/02/news ... ckets-did/

You must be a Fox editor. "The BORGS response to this problem is just to charter a flight into BM.", when the full quote of the section of the blog you lifted the charter flight info from is:

If you didn’t get one, please know that you’ve still got options:

1. Vehicle Passes will be sold in the OMG Sale. In fact, there will be more VPs available than tickets. For those who have not purchased a VP from us yet, there will be an option to register to purchase just a VP — so if you didn’t get a VP in the Individual Sale, you’ll be able to register to purchase one in the OMG Sale.
2. A lot of folks bought a VP not knowing if they need it or not, and will be looking to offload theirs. Ask around, and keep an eye on the open market for them — they’ll be out there.
And if for some reason you can’t get one, there are alternatives to driving your own vehicle to Burning Man:

1. Burner Express shuttle buses run from San Francisco, Reno and possibly a third location that has not yet been determined.
2. Check this out: if you’ve got a bunch of folks looking to ride from your city, you can ask Burner Express to pick you up.
3. The Burning Man Rideshare Board, which will crank up in the Spring, connects people offering rides with those needing rides — it’s always a good option.
4. Get information about chartered flights into the Black Rock City airport.
OK so you can feel good about the fact that you’ve secured your ticket. And don’t worry, you’ve got plenty of opportunities to get your transportation sorted out, too.

So not only is "just get a chartered flight" not even remotely their response, it's the last suggestion they give after giving other low-cost alternatives to driving in, as well other places and ways VPs will be available.

I guess the part about VP's being available in the OMG sale, even if you already got a ticket in another sale, just didn't create the needed drama or outrage.

ACfromSAC · Post by **ACfromSAC** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:20 pm

I bought my vehicle pass in the presale. Also, exodus was AMAZING last year. This post isn't very helpful at all, I just hate being left out.

ACfromSAC · Post by **ACfromSAC** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:29 pm

Ragnar63 wrote:Thanks for your post Socks2, we are exactly in the situation you explain. We are coming from France, we have 2 tickets and no VP, we have booked the plane and a car... And may be we ll don't see the Playa and the Man. It s a stressful situation, we have post a message on Tickets / passes wanted but no answer yet, we ll try to get one at OMG but it s in august, few days before BM.

Hope than all people with tickets will find a VP to go Home!

PM me your info. My group will very possibly have an extra VP. We won't know until after OMG but I'd be happy to give you first dibs if you haven't managed to secure one before then.

Post by **Savannah** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:30 pm

ACfromSAC wrote:I bought my vehicle pass in the presale. Also, exodus was AMAZING last year. This post isn't very helpful at all, I just hate being left out.

TT120 · Post by **TT120** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:10 pm

Yeah, that was a bad example I used Eric. I'm looking for the actual quote made by one of the Borg members that said that. I saw it a couple weeks ago but now can't remember where...DOH!

I can't seem to find where it says you can buy a VP in the OMG sale even if you've already purchased tickets in another sale. All I can find is this:

You can only register to buy tickets in the OMG Sale if you have not previously bought tickets through either the Directed Group Sale, the Individual Sale, or STEP.

Still looking though.....Maybe they'll change it.

Either way, it seems that they're creating UN-needed stress. I'll roll up to the gate without a VP and hope they have one for me as I'm sure LOTS of others will do as well.

There is still time but I'd sure like to get this sorted so I can worry about other things like how much scotch to bring.........

gaminwench · Post by **gaminwench** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:31 pm

TT120 ^^ up there in Joeln's post,
I believe from the Burning Blog.

some seeing eye · Post by **some seeing eye** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:54 pm

Do the math.

If you are an international burner with $1000-1500+ airfare, more as the event nears, invested per person and the equivalent salary or more in time off from work, you belong in presale. That is why I speculate the presale number offered will increase next year. If you can handle economically the airfare price changes with changes in advance booking ticket prices, you can do the math.

If you are laying down $1000-$2500+ per person for an RV, you need to be proactive in getting a vehicle pass for your RV rather than being a victim.

You assume that in the presale and the directed sale that all the vehicle passes were sold by the allowable ratio. That is unlikely. Those vehicle passes flow to the later sales.

You assume that people who bought vehicle passes may not change their plans and carpool or even Burner Express it.

Also, the number of concerned individuals on ePlaya having a breakdown is very small <10. Are there 10 vehicle passes on the open market at face value? Likely.

Chill. Reach out to your regional. Make friends on ePlaya by participating. Monitor secondary markets, like Craigslist in your town in the USA. Write an impassioned factual note to the appropriate email at BMORG, offer a ride in/out - delivered to camp and picked up on leaving - with more luggage than the Burner Express from Reno, SF or wherever, but within the carrying capacity of your vehice, do it. You might meet some friends for life burners.

BM is a challenging environment. If you can't creative maneuver -adapt around these ticket/vehicle pass obstacles, perhaps BM is not for you.

In that case you could sell your tickets.

More numbers, 10's of thousands did not get tickets to the event. Didn't get vehicle passes but unable to adapt and befriend? I would estimate well under 500. Is there a market for their tickets for people inventive enough to ride with someone with a vehicle pass. Yep.

I would also say, in the BM spirit, don't be a victim on ePlaya. Say I expected X, I did Y and I'm asking if you can help me Z.

Post by **Eric** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:06 pm

TT120 wrote:I can't seem to find where it says you can buy a VP in the OMG sale even if you've already purchased tickets in another sale. All I can find is this:
You can only register to buy tickets in the OMG Sale if you have not previously bought tickets through either the Directed Group Sale, the Individual Sale, or STEP.
Still looking though.....Maybe they'll change it.

Look at the first #1 in the section of the blog I quoted a few posts above:

1. Vehicle Passes will be sold in the OMG Sale. In fact, there will be more VPs available than tickets. For those who have not purchased a VP from us yet, there will be an option to register to purchase just a VP — so if you didn’t get a VP in the Individual Sale, you’ll be able to register to purchase one in the OMG Sale.

Just_Joe · Post by **Just_Joe** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:29 pm

some seeing eye wrote: offer a ride in/out - delivered to camp and picked up on leaving - with more luggage than the Burner Express from Reno, SF or wherever, but within the carrying capacity of your vehice, do it. You might meet some friends for life burners.

That's kinda what we're going to be looking for- a trailer hitch.
We've had several international people join the camp that have vehicle passes. As they arrange rides with local Reno members, their VP's will free up. Our goal will be to find a person in need of a VP and some gas money that can pull our utility trailer with their truck.

I think the sooner the RIde Share board opens up, the sooner some of this (perceived) mess can get cleared up.

TT120 · Post by **TT120** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:33 pm

Thanks Eric. I saw that but must have been reading it wrong or something. My brain wasn't registering. I think I need to cut back on the coffee.

socks2 · Post by **socks2** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:29 pm

My point is out of 3 sales of tickets the general sale is the only one that had a
3.3 tickets to 1vp ratio. Presale and directed group sale both got a 2 tickets to 1vp ratio.
Again I ask BM.org to address this bias

digital · Post by **digital** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:46 pm

socks2 wrote:Again I ask BM.org to address this bias

Did you email them your concerns? I'm sure if you have a well-thought out logical solution it will be considered for future years.

This is ePlaya, however, a community of burning man participants. Not the Burning Man Official Support Channel.

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