The VP mess

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Eric
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Re: The VP mess

Post by Eric » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:12 pm

digital wrote:This is ePlaya, however, a community of burning man participants. Not the Burning Man Official Support Channel.
^This is the important point here. Even the Mods are just volunteers, none of us are any of the official channels that would even consider addressing your concern. All you're going to get here is discussion about it amongst fellow Burners.

If you want them to know your concern, you would have to email someone at Burning Man (probably ticketing). I can't guarantee any kind of response, but they are very good at taking community concerns and incorporating them in future plans. The current ticketing system is proof of that, since it's based on Burner concerns from the nightmare of 2012 ticketing.
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Re: The VP mess

Post by quadraspleen » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:58 am

Is this real? Not enough VPs?

read this: https://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic ... 17&t=73347

Perhaps that's why they think they've run out; they "sold" a load to ppl who didn't "buy" them?

SMH

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Re: The VP mess

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:27 pm

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Re: The VP mess

Post by digital » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:41 pm

quadraspleen wrote:Is this real? Not enough VPs?

read this: https://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic ... 17&t=73347

Perhaps that's why they think they've run out; they "sold" a load to ppl who didn't "buy" them?
Dude, why is it bothering you so much? You weren't even going to go?

/me is thoroughly baffled

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Re: The VP mess

Post by maladroit » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:15 pm

trilobyte wrote:Speaking personally, that tells me that a large chunk of the population didn't really do jack to reduce the number of vehicles they brought. They just sandbagged their vehicle needs, over-bought, and hoarded vehicle passes. It's also worth pointing out that in the end, passes were being sold well below face and even given away by some.
Hoarders gonna hoard. It's money out of their wallet, anyway. Do you honestly believe that a person who hoarded last year will look at the reduced number of available tickets and suddenly want to hoard LESS? "Oh, I'd better leave some for the other people." It would seem to be a rather foolish belief to have.

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Re: The VP mess

Post by maladroit » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:22 pm

And let's say that hoarders managed to account for another 3000 passes sold, but not used this year. Is that a good reason to drop the total available passes to 24000 and raise the price to $60 next year? I hope the answer is no, as thousands of people buy passes at the gate this year.

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Re: The VP mess

Post by AliCat903 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:15 pm

Our group has a bunch of people flying in from Australia. Instead of renting lots of vehicles for those people, we're renting two vans. A 12 passenger van and a cargo van. One for people, one for all of their stuff. So we'll be able to get 14 people through the gate with two vehicle passes.

I get the frustration from people... to an extent. But look at it this way: One of the biggest frustrations is that there aren't more tickets. There aren't more tickets because the road can't take any more vehicles. If the org can prove that we can get more people out to the burn without increasing the number of vehicles, then perhaps we can get more tickets. I have no idea if this is in the plans at all but I can't imagine that no one else has thought of this concept.

Reach out, get to know people, rent/borrow vehicles with larger passenger capacities. Take the burner express bus, it gets you through the gate faster anyway and last year at least they took your trash and disposed of it for you.

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Re: The VP mess

Post by some seeing eye » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:27 pm

AliCat903 wrote:But look at it this way: One of the biggest frustrations is that there aren't more tickets. There aren't more tickets because the road can't take any more vehicles. If the org can prove that we can get more people out to the burn without increasing the number of vehicles, then perhaps we can get more tickets.
That is exactly the plan.

The more people that get it the better. Thanks AliCat!

30-40K people did not get tickets, less that 2000 did not get vehicles passes. If every RV picked up a quarter rider in Reno/SF, problem solved!
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Re: The VP mess

Post by maladroit » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:55 pm

Well, I need to bring more than just what I need. I'm bringing the stuff I need to camp, plus food, drinks, furniture, art, and other stuff to help make a more enjoyable event for the people who had to carpool 4 people in a hatchback. So the vehicle pass I bought will be used for one person with one car and one utility trailer, maybe two people max. Sorry to drag down the average.

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Re: The VP mess

Post by socks2 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:15 pm

See eye that is not the problem here. I was under the impression that we are a community
and as a community we take on the tasks together. But on this vp issue its not so.

The presale allowed up to 6 tickets and 3 vp's per order a 2 to 1 ratio but plug and plays need that.
Then they had the directed group sales allowing 4 tickets and 2 vp's per order again a 2 to 1 ratio
So then the general sale comes along and we get a 3.3 ticket to 1 vp. The vp's sold out before
the tickets did. How does that happen you ask. Its because all the cuts in vehicles passes were done
in Only the general sale. But no one at BM.org wants to address this at all until a whole bunch of people roll up to the gate with no vp
and showing no intent to go back home.

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Re: The VP mess

Post by TT120 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:05 am

The DGS was 2 tickets and 1 VP per order as was the main sale.
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Re: The VP mess

Post by vargaso » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:24 pm

I'll eat my hat (hell, I'll eat Larry's hat) if the BMORG doesn't release a buttload of VPs to people with tickets but no VPs in the near future. They'll do another "you spoke, we listened" post over at the Burning Blog. No biggie.

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Re: The VP mess

Post by Jovankat » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:58 pm

If this doesn't happen, you're coming to the meet and greet right...? :twisted:

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Re: The VP mess

Post by trilobyte » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:37 pm

The individual purchase limits were a 2:1... well, 1:2 if we're talking about passes compared with tickets (and not the other way around). Each of the sales was pinched in the sense that an allocation of vehicle passes was roped off to be held for the OMG sale. The main sale felt it the most, because it was by far the largest of the ticket sales and so had the most removed from the pool.

I don't think that holding back some VP's or even that the presale had a higher limit is the single specific cause of your frustration or anyone else's. The number of passes being offered was reduced (to last year's actuals), so as long as there was one hoarder or one lazy person who grabbed more than they needed because they wanted to cover the bases and not have to deal with reducing their vehicle usage... then there would have been people in the main sale who would not have been able to get a vehicle pass with their tickets. And there would also of course be the numerous reports of people who forgot to put a VP in the cart when they had the chance... but there wouldn't be any bubble of supply to come later in the season.

Having seen how the OMG sales have worked out over the last few years, I've seen them as some kind of welcome pressure release valve. People who are determined will continue to look for the tickets and passes they need before that sale of course, but it affords one more chance to get things sorted out, and it feeds more face value tickets and passes into the supply at a time when those who would sell above face would normally turn the screws even tighter still.

It's also worth pointing out that we saw a lot of very similar complaints about vehicle passes last year too, and as things came together in the end. I'm not saying that to dismiss your complaint, so much as to offer some reassurance. I know the current situation is frustrating (I've got campmates still looking for tickets/passes too), but hang in there. Remember, it's still very early in the season. Generally speaking more than a quarter of Burning Man tickets change hands at least once between the time they're purchased and the time that they come through the gates, and while we don't have enough history with vehicle passes to know, I suspect it's at least that much if not slightly more. They don't usually start to become available until May/June, so keep working on your prep or projects and keep an eye on the boards (you can subscribe to the board to receive an email notification when somebody posts something in the Offered board, if you like).

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Re: The VP mess

Post by vargaso » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:09 pm

Jovankat wrote:If this doesn't happen, you're coming to the meet and greet right...? :twisted:
With an empty stomach. Yep.

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Re: The VP mess

Post by Simon of the Playa » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:29 pm

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Re: The VP mess

Post by ygmir » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:37 pm

not so fast, Pilgrim:

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Re: The VP mess

Post by trilobyte » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:22 am

You're right, that's fuzzy logic (even if you have a pair of purchased but unused tickets from last year). Most of the 'smoke' I saw surrounding vehicle passes last year was connected to people's fears that they wouldn't get them. The fears turned out to be unfounded, there were enough for everyone (the system itself worked). Using your logic that smoke implies fire or a problem, I do agree that there is a problem with the people freaking out over vehicle passes. I don't really blame or think too poorly of them, some people have a more difficult time than others in dealing with the unknown or unfamiliar.

I've got campmates who are still short the vehicle passes (or in a couple cases, tickets and vehicle passes) that they need, just like we had last year at this time. I'm not too concerned about it (it's still pretty early in the season) - just like last year, I anticipate those who are determined to go will find what they need with time to spare.

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Re: The VP mess

Post by maladroit » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:07 pm

Increase scarcity, and you increase hoarding. There is no other possible outcome.

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Re: The VP mess

Post by Zubeneschamali » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:56 am

Gotta think that no matter what, BORG would love this to be a 200K attendee event. Wouldn't it be great if everyone who is waving money at us could give us that money? Its every corporate executive's wet dream.

Alas, there's always a problem in the business plan. Every company has at least one. In the BORGs case, it is resources related.

What is needed is a cost effective location with enough space and infrastructure to make logistics work for a global customer base. And its gotta be lenient in its environmental, legal, and social rules. Its gotta be available when we want it without conflict. Oh, and it would help if it has a natural beauty to it.

Sure. You find that pretty much everywhere, right?

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Re: The VP mess

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:59 am

ygmir wrote:not so fast, Pilgrim:

Image

hey Ygmir, if i ride my hoss this year, can i volunteer at GPE and take her out on Perimeter Duty? :twisted:
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Re: The VP mess

Post by ygmir » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:04 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:
ygmir wrote:not so fast, Pilgrim:

Image

hey Ygmir, if i ride my hoss this year, can i volunteer at GPE and take her out on Perimeter Duty? :twisted:
perhaps.
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Re: The VP mess

Post by digital » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:22 pm

ygmir wrote:perhaps.
I wish I had a picture of that awesome black zombie hunter motorcycle. So badass.

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Re: The VP mess

Post by ygmir » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:53 pm

digital wrote:
ygmir wrote:perhaps.
I wish I had a picture of that awesome black zombie hunter motorcycle. So badass.
I do, but not permission from the gal sitting on it to post.........
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Re: The VP mess

Post by digital » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:58 pm

ygmir wrote:
digital wrote:
ygmir wrote:perhaps.
I wish I had a picture of that awesome black zombie hunter motorcycle. So badass.
I do, but not permission from the gal sitting on it to post.........
Perimeter people rock my socks off. There can't be a much better gig out there. :D

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Re: The VP mess

Post by ygmir » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:32 pm

ygmir wrote:
digital wrote:
ygmir wrote:perhaps.
I wish I had a picture of that awesome black zombie hunter motorcycle. So badass.
I do, but not permission from the gal sitting on it to post.........
digital wrote: Perimeter people rock my socks off. There can't be a much better gig out there. :D
thanks, and yeah, I think it's the best thing going..........
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Re: The VP mess

Post by gaminwench » Fri May 01, 2015 1:17 am

Consent, by dust covered khaki kilted fur (natural or not) covered men, is always welcome. :mrgreen:

Consent, by partially nekkid women, encouraged and enthusiastically welcomed!! :lol:

*drunk post*
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