future of burning man?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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Simon of the Playa
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:39 am

stephen2u wrote:Do you think what whitehouse did this week is going to change the burn? This is federal land .https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-of ... t-and-acro


oh please.


do not inject your hatred of black men onto e-playa.


your "politics' are showing.


(note, edited to allow for the fact that all texans aren't assholes even though it may seem that way sometimes)
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some seeing eye
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by some seeing eye » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:40 am

That policy applies to federal buildings and federal purchasing. Haven't read the law, but would expect the federal government to require reducing natural gas pumping leaks on federal lands, "methane emissions". Maybe federal vehicles would go to a higher percentage ethanol-gasoline mix or biodiesel. More LEED construction.

Has nothing to do with the event in the desert, though I am all in favor of it becoming more carbon-neutral.

My personal opinion of the event is that it is very much based on display culture intrinsically woven into the Cali psyche. Maybe there needs to be a water festival celebrating the waste and consumption of water as a complement to the BM fire festival. Or do they already have that in Cali-Tx?

(The federal government is, I believe, 20% of GDP, so reducing CO2 pollution can have an effect. The military is already doing it too.)
Last edited by some seeing eye on Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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stephen2u
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by stephen2u » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:41 am

Simon of the Playa

Wow, first thing President Obama signed an executive order Thursday to cut the federal government’s greenhouse gas emissions 40 percent over the next decade. I thought this was new and some burners would like to see this.
If burning man really what’s to fix itself just put a name on the ticket of the buyer, and checked at the gate, so no scalping on tickets, if you can’t make it return to ticketfly for full refund, then the ticket is resold at face value.

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Re: future of burning man?

Post by Elderberry » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:59 am

I think it already has. Can you say "vehicle pass"?
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by some seeing eye » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:09 am

I must object in the strongest terms to that offhanded remark. The vehicle pass program is about NV LEO-driven road safety and the BMORG's business plan to continually raise the population cap. Attaching vehicle passes to carbon emissions is not true and Fox-like.

Anyone who has been to the event for a few years knows friends or friends of friends injured on the highway, even severely, to and from the event.
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by FIGJAM » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:14 am

Carbon based life forms on a carbon based planet= carbon EVERYWHERE!!!

Maybe it's time to get over it.
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Simon of the Playa
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:49 pm

My Apologies Stephen, i mistook your post for some offhanded Tea-Bag Party Propaganda.

The E.P.A. is a dictatorship



it's the way i'm wired.


again, my sincere apologies for assuming you were talking in code, i am perhaps far too suspicious these days of politics and it's encroachment upon our little shindig in the desert...


and i hate tea partiers, i really do...
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tatonka
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by tatonka » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:36 pm

what about tea baggers ?
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Simon of the Playa
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:37 am

perfectly acceptable as long as they don't mention the how "evil" the POTUS is or how they Open Carry or Global Warming Denial while they are doing it.
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Aurelia
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by Aurelia » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:20 am

The thread is interesting and certainly we as burners are considering all possible implications of our needs

but ;
in a time when passwords are become a corporate cyber hack

We must creatively continue of course !

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Re: future of burning man?

Post by Fan C » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:34 pm

Colonel Monk wrote:
ygmir wrote:
stephen2u wrote:I make 8,110 lbs per year of Co2e greenhouse gas from my mini copper. I did not know burning man made 50,000 tons of greenhouse gas, that would be 110,230,000 lbs that's is huge.

huge? well, in relative terms, spread out over 70K people? then again, compare that, once per year, to any volcano erupting, undersea vents, the automobiles just in one city, forest fires, .....well, a drop of water, is still a drop of water, but when it's dripped into the the ocean, relativity kicks in........
Yeah, even with all the wood burning in BRC in one week, I'm pretty sure that 70,000 people driving their gas-guzzling cars and electricity needs for one week in defaultia has much more severe impacts to the environment.

Spread out the impact of BRC over an entire year, and it's no impact at all.
A couple of things this makes me wonder about,

First how does BRC compare to any over 70k person city for a week?

Second I'm pretty sure those 70k people would be still generating co2 no matter where on the planet they are no?

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Re: future of burning man?

Post by The Rod » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:36 am

I'd wager that a good majority of attendees are probably producing much more at home than at the event.

So, I drive a big ass truck to burning man, 318 miles there and back, but then it's parked for 12 days. But I also drive the same big ass truck around at home, in the country, its 30 miles to the closest town and in a busy work week I can easily drive a couple hundred miles or more.

En-route to playa my truck and trailer are packed full of camp infrastructure, a dozen or so bikes and supplies and h2o for a few campers who contribute to fuel, so that they in turn can drive a car with 4 people in it.

Then there's my appliances at home, heating, computer, lights, stereos and all the other crap that uses the electricity I buy from a power company. While on playa I sleep in the back of my truck, use one 12v battery for a bucket cooler and run an extension cord from the camps 2k Honda EU to power a couple strands of LED lights.

So yeah, I'd bet that my carbon footprint, along with most of my camp is smaller when I'm at Burning Man as opposed to at home using my kitchen aid to mix pate au choux to turn into churros in my elctric deep fat fryer.
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by mooserider » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:25 am

A-RockLeFrench wrote:I'd wager that a good majority of attendees are probably producing much more at home than at the event.

So, I drive a big ass truck to burning man, 318 miles there and back, but then it's parked for 12 days. But I also drive the same big ass truck around at home, in the country, its 30 miles to the closest town and in a busy work week I can easily drive a couple hundred miles or more.

En-route to playa my truck and trailer are packed full of camp infrastructure, a dozen or so bikes and supplies and h2o for a few campers who contribute to fuel, so that they in turn can drive a car with 4 people in it.

Then there's my appliances at home, heating, computer, lights, stereos and all the other crap that uses the electricity I buy from a power company. While on playa I sleep in the back of my truck, use one 12v battery for a bucket cooler and run an extension cord from the camps 2k Honda EU to power a couple strands of LED lights.

So yeah, I'd bet that my carbon footprint, along with most of my camp is smaller when I'm at Burning Man as opposed to at home using my kitchen aid to mix pate au choux to turn into churros in my elctric deep fat fryer.
Interesting point, if one is interested in the actual numbers. The only possible errors I see in your above assumption is that:

1. You aren't totally eliminating your energy consumption at home while you're at BM; some minimal energy is going towards maintenance (do you turn your air-conditioning, refrigerator, and water heater off entirely while you are gone? do you have security lights, a DVR recording your favorite programs while you are gone, etc.?). If there is still family at home, your home is still spewing nearly as much carbon as while you are still there. Note that, even when all the lights are off at your home, your electric meter is still counting up power consumption.

2. Even if you are using less total energy (between residual at home plus camp power) while you're at BM, what is the carbon output per kilowatt hour from your home electric company versus the little Honda generator? I would bet economies of scale make the big generators at the electric company more efficient regarding carbon output (even accounting for the electric company's work trucks as additional carbon load), especially if you're running the portable generator far below its rated capacity.

So are you really saving more net carbon while at BM? That's a very interesting question.

I know I won't be as efficient on vehicle-produced carbon for the drive to Burning Man, since my around-town car gets 30 mpg on gasoline and gets driven about 300 miles a week, and the RV gets 6 mpg on diesel with a 5000-mile round trip to BM (ignoring the extra diesel for the generator in camp) for 2 weeks that the car won't be used. Not sure I can stuff in enough carpoolers to spread out the RV's consumption enough to equal all our cars at home.

Considering the carbon being wasted in burn barrels and the like at BM, perhaps we should attach steam turbines to the burn barrels instead of using gasoline and diesel generators. :lol:

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Simon of the Playa
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:33 am

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some seeing eye
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by some seeing eye » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:17 pm

The transformation in the energy world is a transformation of thinking. It is not about conservation or deprivation. It is about efficiency.

The goal is to gain the same pleasure, utility and comfort energy provides ever more efficiently.

BM is a great experiment, an opportunity to innovate, to exchange ideas. Good pointer to the Alternative Energy Zone camp!

I don't buy the argument that because I use less energy during BM week than I use at home I can be inefficient in my energy use. There is always the opportunity for continuous improvement!

I would say that "here is the list of things I can improve or expand in my BM participation 1, 2, 3, 4" it is different for each of us. i would say that CO2 would be on that list and that each individual decides its priority and how much ergs they want to devote to it in any year.

But I disagree with the idea it is a non-issue. Sort of like water being a non-issue that has come home to roost in Cali and other parts of the world.
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by theCryptofishist » Tue May 26, 2015 7:39 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:My Apologies Stephen, i mistook your post for some offhanded Tea-Bag Party Propaganda.

The E.P.A. is a dictatorship



it's the way i'm wired.


again, my sincere apologies for assuming you were talking in code, i am perhaps far too suspicious these days of politics and it's encroachment upon our little shindig in the desert...


and i hate tea partiers, i really do...
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by Zealous » Wed May 27, 2015 6:26 pm

As someone coming from California, I'm pretty sure my (lack of) water use during the week of BM offsets just about anything else I might generate along the way. The state estimates the indoor use of water per capita at around ~100 gallons per day http://ww2.kqed.org/lowdown/2014/01/23/ ... look-like/

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Re: future of burning man?

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:29 pm

At the bottom of this article is what I felt was a very informative podcast featuring Maid Marion answering many questions that everyone has been asking about PNPs, LEO, DMZ and why, and much more. 8)

https://thump.vice.com/en_us/article/bu ... =thumpfbus
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:04 pm

Just finished listening to this and I was very impressed.

She answered with no hesitation, obfuscation, spin, or deflection.

I feel better about Burning Man as this cleared up a lot of my own questions.

Please treat yourself and take a listen. 8)
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by Roundabout » Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:33 pm

Thanks Figjam. I downloaded the podcast from iTunes and will listen to it during my long drive to BRC.
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:58 pm

There was even mention of moving the event because of the 9% "festi" tax!!!
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

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Simon of the Playa
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:55 am

i love the smell of vindication in the morning.
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Simon of the Playa
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Re: future of burning man?

Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:54 am

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Re: future of burning man?

Post by goathead » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:12 pm

accept your DOOM.

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Re: future of burning man?

Post by Bless » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:29 pm

FIGJAM wrote:There was even mention of moving the event because of the 9% "festi" tax!!!
No wonder Larry and Grover get along so well.
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Re: future of bongs?

Post by Simon of the Playa » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:04 am

[media]
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