Treatment of women at Burning Man and beyond

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:16 pm

Pertinent?

[Moderator note: this thread has been split from this thread, as it's no longer about Camps]

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:29 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Pertinent?

so very, very pertinent....

Lip Bomb · Post by **Lip Bomb** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:07 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Pertinent?

It is only if it supports your argument. Its been the same argument since print ads beginnings. We women will always be objectified in one way or another. The only ones it bothers are those who have a victim mentality. I for one don't give a shit because I am successful and have an amazing life. But then again it could be because I think naked women are sexy! Strippers have it all figured out. A way to drain every cent out of a dirt perverts wallet. No problem that I see.

Jovankat · Post by **Jovankat** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:23 pm

Lip Bomb wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:Pertinent?
It is only if it supports your argument. Its been the same argument since print ads beginnings. We women will always be objectified in one way or another. The only ones it bothers are those who have a victim mentality basic understanding of structural oppression. I for one don't give a shit because I am successful and have an amazing life have no capacity for empathising with others or recognising how it it possible to be both happy and part of a system that routinely undervalues, commodifies and exploits my gender.

Fixed that for ya.

Lip Bomb · Post by **Lip Bomb** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:30 pm

Jovankat wrote:
Lip Bomb wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:Pertinent?
It is only if it supports your argument. Its been the same argument since print ads beginnings. We women will always be objectified in one way or another. The only ones it bothers are those who have a victim mentality basic understanding of structural oppression. I for one don't give a shit because I am successful and have an amazing life have no capacity for empathising with others or recognising how it it possible to be both happy and part of a system that routinely undervalues, commodifies and exploits my gender.
Fixed that for ya.

HAHA! Love it. Thank you so much for the fix.

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:33 pm

Ratty · Post by **Ratty** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:33 pm

Lip Bomb I have to agree. I have stripper friends. Some are 'working girls' some just take their $600+ a NIGHT and go home to their families. I could seriously rant on this one but I'll let it go.

TT120 · Post by **TT120** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:36 pm

I like strippers......

Jovankat · Post by **Jovankat** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:36 pm

Oh I have stripper friends too, and sex worker friends, they're also feminists though and understand the system they're working in and aren't so naive as to think that just because it's working for them that the system itself isn't fucked.

Joeln · Post by **Joeln** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:42 pm

Gotta agree on the structural oppression, undervalue, exploit & commodify stuff...

Lip Bomb · Post by **Lip Bomb** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:02 pm

My surprise with ePlaya so far has been due to the negative reaction a lot of people have towards others lifestyle choices. I think tamarakay said it best..."If you all dyed silk I'd be bored out of my mind." If I went to a place where it was just the stuff that I am into, I would get very bored.

I might be looking at this completely wrong (as I am known to do). Maybe the negative responses are just initiation of sorts. Maybe this is what happened when all of you started going to Burning Man and this is all just a baptism by fire (a right of passage). I would really hate to think that the ideal of radical inclusion actually means (as long as they see the world like I do). Truth be known, my husband and I are so far removed lifestyle wise from most of the citizens of BRC but If it were any other way, we would never have returned. We drank the Kool Aide and we are in. The spectrum of people that we met last year was life changing and not once did we ever run into someone trying to troll us into reaction like ePlaya.

By the way, I love strippers as well. I love everyone!

The Rod · Post by **The Rod** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:19 pm

Trolling for a reaction is one thing. Calling out the ignorance which continues to perpetuate a world where women are treated as objects is another.

Which do you think was happening here?

Lip Bomb · Post by **Lip Bomb** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:34 pm

A-RockLeFrench wrote:Trolling for a reaction is one thing. Calling out the ignorance which continues to perpetuate a world where women are treated as objects is another.

Which do you think was happening here?

Speaking in reference to this post, most of its been trolling and only on this page does it take a bit of serious undertones. Other posts Ive read seems to support trolling but Im hoping it the "right of passage" thought I had.
Like I had mentioned previously..Last year was our first year and I was one of the nudist that roamed the playa. One thing that I found amazing was the respect that I received from the great majority of others. Now there were some crude remarks from time to time. Did it bother me? Not really. Could I have gotten made and told them "fuck your burn!" Yes. It really did not impact my experience much at all. The poster of this thread didn't say anything negative about women. I just think there are people that hover around the threads just looking for meat to pick off the bone. Especially virgin meat. Will anything I say change anyone's mind? Very doubtful but you never know. Im just looking forward to having fun with as many of you as possible when there is no keyboard to snipe from.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:38 pm

i'm going to apologize here, for i do not judge people on their lifestyles or choices, that was not my intention.

i was referring to the mainstream EDM urge to commodify and objectify women, to make the bra & panties "de riguer" for costume at raves, and in general utilize them as props for DJ's....

i know...i used to do it....it's the oldest trick in the book.....put a bunch of pretty girls on stage in skimpy outfits and whats not to like...

flo zigfield knew this well...i am sorry i participated in this type of behavior in the past...i was blinded by nipple, forgive me...

so where am i going, well, to each his own, and have a great burn, and i am sorry to have let my current bias against the frat-boy takeover of electronica cloud my posting.

Lip Bomb · Post by **Lip Bomb** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:51 pm

Simon,
I am not a frat boy but I am a very old school raver since 1990. Ive seen what you are talking about when it comes to the changes in attire. I used to wear those silly looking Jinko jeans and pounds of kandi on my arm. I also was one of the girls that would show up wearing electrical tape over my nipples. I did that because I have always been a nudist and I hate clothes. It has changed a bit but not as much as you may think. I can tell you that I appreciate seeing a sexy women ( and they come in all sizes,colors, religions and political affiliations). It might be because I am a bisexual women. Who knows? I celebrate women in all their amazing glory. Its kinda sad but some of the worst culprits of belittling women are other women. A lot of you men have never seen the inside of a women's restroom at a sporting event or club. Its downright evil. As much as things change and evolve, just stay true to yourself and love life and those around you.

tamarakay · Post by **tamarakay** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:52 pm

I love you Simon.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:55 pm

with all the jibber jab where the hell was page 2, tis one should of been good.

Lonesomebri · Post by **Lonesomebri** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:13 pm

So have we figured out yet how many are riding in this clown car? Sure, the only people who are exploited and used are those with a victim mentality, tell it to the Sudanese or Rwandas... classic. How more entitled can you get? And, yeah, this thread is hilarious, the OP tells us that exact thing every post, over and over "lol" "lol" "lol". Do people even look at what they type anymore, or is it like their music, just whatever the computer decides to spit out? Total non-kool-aid drinking man of the world, lol, lol, lol, lol. And judging others is what I do best, unlike all the self described "non-judgmental" people who are busy judging all who they judge as judgmental. And here we arrive at a place where how we treat strippers is the set bench-mark with how we perceive relationships with women... Yeah, a quality thread ya got going here. Rave on bro. I'm trying to set fire to my laptop right now.

GreyCoyote · Post by **GreyCoyote** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:30 pm

Seriously? DEAL WITH IT.

If we were REALLY here to have intelligent conversation and make life-long friends, the music wouldnt be so loud and I wouldnt be able to see your tonsils via your crotch as you dance on the stripper pole.

You show it, I'm gonna look. And I will NOT be cowtow'd into eating the bitter end of some bullshit neo-feminist diatribe. Men are pigs. Oink-oink-oink.

Next blood-in-the-water thread, please...

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:58 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:...the OP tells us that exact thing every post, over and over "lol" "lol" "lol". Do people even look at what they type anymore...

Ratty · Post by **Ratty** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:35 pm

Greycoyote, You are making me smile. (See avatar).

You show it, I'm gonna look.

And visa versa.

GreyCoyote · Post by **GreyCoyote** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:06 pm

Ratty: thats just one more reason I loves ya!

maladroit · Post by **maladroit** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:39 pm

In this thread:
If I feel a certain way about something, then everyone else should feel the same way too.

The Rod · Post by **The Rod** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:14 am

Haven't seen everyone round here so worked up since vehicle passes sold out.

Was it really necessary to separate this into its own thread? All it did was make it even worse without the first four pages for context...

This place is really starting to go to shit.

Post by **Eric** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:39 am

Yeah, I know. How dare the Mods do simple housecleaning around here to keep the board organized. It's the beginning of the end.

As for this thread becoming "even worse without the first four pages for context...", apparently you didn't notice that all but the last four comments (including this one) occurred after the split. The discussion was already many posts away from the subject of the original thread (which still exists, if you have further input on their camping situation or choices)

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:35 am

These adds don't affect the WalMart shoppers.. They live by a completely different standard..

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:32 am

Ya know what? Fuck this bullshit. I'm so sick of hearing about how women are treated.
Most of my life, women have treated me a lot worse than I treated them.
I doubt I'm that much a minority.
People are people. Some are douche bags. Others aren't.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:35 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:Ya know what? Fuck this bullshit. I'm so sick of hearing about how women are treated.
Most of my life, women have treated me a lot worse than I treated them.
I doubt I'm that much a minority.
People are people. Some are douche bags. Others aren't.

like

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:37 pm

there is an old native american saying and im going to paraphrase it.

"It is a man's job to make the world a place where women feel safe"

VultureChow · Post by **VultureChow** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:53 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:Ya know what? Fuck this bullshit. I'm so sick of hearing about how women are treated.
Most of my life, women have treated me a lot worse than I treated them.
I doubt I'm that much a minority.
People are people. Some are douche bags. Others aren't.

And yet by all measurable statistics women make less money, have less political and social power, are more likely to be killed by a spouse, etc.

The pool at the US Capitol was off limits to women until 2008.

People are douchebags, but dismissing entrenched sexism because a woman treated you bad says more about you than than it does about women.