Doomed Relationships

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:58 pm

Vasectomies are reversible. It's expensive, but it works most of the time.

I think having a vasectomy when you're fairly certain you never want kids
is a lot better than failing to find a partner who also doesn't want kids,
settling for someone else, and lying to her. But that's probably just me.

OregonRed · Post by **OregonRed** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 1:12 pm

precipitate wrote:Vasectomies are reversible. It's expensive, but it works most of the time.

I think having a vasectomy when you're fairly certain you never want kids
is a lot better than failing to find a partner who also doesn't want kids,
settling for someone else, and lying to her. But that's probably just me.

No, it's not just you. Lying in relationships is just wrong. Especially about something as big as having children.

Tiara · Post by **Tiara** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 2:30 pm

[quote="OregonRed]No, it's not just you. Lying in relationships is just wrong. Especially about something as big as having children.[/quote]

It's official. If three out of three Burner women agree, it must be true.

III · Post by **III** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 2:51 pm

i was thinking about this in regards to an organzation, rather than an individual, but another big warning sign:

- if the walk don't match the talk, run screaming for your life.

(i.e. if they claim they are a certain way, or have certain characteristics, but don't actually display those characteristics, there'll only be pain to follow.)

Flux · Post by **Flux** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 4:05 pm

i agree. flux, that i actually do not want to be shot by someone else unless i get to tell him/her where to shoot me & how many times. like thirteen times around the heart (not the face! that's my meal ticket!), then knock my heart out from the front through the back (as i watch!) with a Mr. Coffee (single serve) machine.

Damn, and I thought my suicidal ideation, as the rapists ... er, make that therapists ... call it, was bizarre!

Flux · Post by **Flux** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 4:08 pm

princess strych-9 wrote:hey, ivy, i'll hold him down if you run and get your strap-on. gang rape, anyone?

Oooh, oooh, pick me, pick me!

Oh, sorry, just realized you were looking for more strappers-on, not rapees.

Never mind.

angelface · Post by **angelface** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 4:40 pm

Just save some sperm in the bank, you can still have kids.. just have to plan better.. and for the record.. I'm a 31 year old female who definitely does NOT want children, thank you very much..

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 4:45 pm

So many good comments, so little time:

The ice princess comment was not meant towards any e-playans. It refers to a person I know here in KC.

I have an open mind but some parts of me are closed to certain activities under the circumstances that have been described......

And a vasectomy? I admit, I want a kid. I flip flop on it a little but really, I do want one, maybe 2. Then I would gladly do it.

The fundamental problem is that I pick the wrong people to go out with through a combo of low self-esteem, loneliness, and a ticking biological clock. There, I said it. The sources of the problems are many and some are from bad childhood experiences. So I understand the problem. And I've been working towards finding solutions. While being a work in progress some have exploited the weaknesses and I've slipped and that's the whole problem summarized.

So I keep working on climbing up. BM helps. The more I got involved in BM, I left the old stuff behind. Patterns changed, lifestyle changed, friends changed. The deeper I get into BM, the stronger I seem to become, and I've made a lot of progress. Too much to list here.

I want to be a regional coordinator for a lot of reasons, but a private one is I feel it's gonna kick in the afterburners on my own personal change. So there....I've said it. It's not pretty but neither are most works of art when their being made. A real work in progress.....that's me.

RebA! · Post by **RebA!** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 4:46 pm

Fuck it i'm thread drifting. Hey.. angelface. Ya want a friend? I seem to be running out of them here in the Seattle area due to breederdom.

Maybe sometime we can all get together and have a beer or two. Will you be going to seacompression? Hubby and I will most likely be there.

DOH! typo

angelface · Post by **angelface** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 4:50 pm

Hey RebA.. can always use more friends, especially the beer drinking, child-hating type

(I don't really hate kids, not all of them anyway).. e-mail me off list sometime.

I'll be at Seacomp, when and where ever it is...

Ivy · Post by **Ivy** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:00 pm

The ice princess comment was not meant towards any e-playans.

Aw, now I'm hurt. If I can't be an ice princess, can I be a fire queen? Aw, someone prolly has that title already, too...

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:15 pm

OregonRed wrote:Just playing Devil's advocate here, but what if he does change his mind when he gets older?

Sheesh, it's not like sperm is some sort of rare and valuable commodity. Hell, in many cities there are streets you can't walk down without getting more than you want splattered upon you.

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:17 pm

Tiara wrote:[quote="OregonRed]No, it's not just you. Lying in relationships is just wrong. Especially about something as big as having children.

It's official. If three out of three Burner women agree, it must be true.[/quote]

make that four.

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:19 pm

Tiara wrote:Lying in relationships is just wrong...three out of three Burner women agree...

Would all the human males that have never told a fib in hopes of getting sex please raise their hands?

I thought not.

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:59 pm

so i feel i need to share this as a specific example of how supremely stupid women can be about the whole baby thing:

my ex-sister in law wanted to have babies, my brother did not ( my parent were married, unhappily for 42 years - it's hard to have faith in families when you grow up in that kind of environment ). louis ( my brother ) and jessica met when he was still in medical school. 11 years later, when they finally settled down in miami, louis told her he just wasn't ready to have kids. she could have insisted they go to therapy or just left him, but no. he told her, " under no circumstances are you to get pregnant. so what does the vapid bitch do? you guessed it.

my brother was apparently looking for a way out and left her. none of us saw it at the time ( except for my dad - he seemed to know from the beginning what a manipulative, callous asshole she was )but this woman was a complete psycho.

my niece alexa was born and the bullshit escalated. for years this woman held all of us emotionally hostage, threatened to take the baby back to peru and hide her from us. treated my mom like shit ( which absolutely infuriated me ) when my all my mom did was try to help her and gave her buckets of money. jessica used to complain when my mom gave me money - can you believe it? well as dominick dunne is fond of saying, nothing deplete a family fortune like divorce. that, and when cousins are forced to marry.

so my brother meets his present girlfriend ( been together two years now - what a doll she is! ) and it finally hits jessica between the eyes that not only is the possibility of reconciling with him gone, but she has lost her footing and her hold on my parent's money. so what does she do? she meets some poor hapless shmuck and after two months she's pregnant again.

i sure as hell don't want her or anyone like her to be in power. women abuse power in a far more sinister way then men do - by acting weak and helpless while undermining the very fabric of woman's equality, our fragile relationships with the opposite sex, and the right reasons to have children.

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:35 pm

princess strych-9 wrote:...women abuse power in a far more sinister way then men do...

On the other hand, they don't invade neighboring countries very often.

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:04 am

yesterday i neglected to say about the stalker thing:

anyone whom is "dating" or "looking" (do you brush your hair?) is likely looking for love, to feel both caring & cared for with another person, very closely.

so it is a hard thing to say to another person whom is looking at you crying after the fifth date saying they love you.. it is a hard thing to say at the outset that "i'm sorry, i am not that person. i do not feel it for you".

(caution! run-on-sentence ahead)
and you wonder if you are too "picky", or if s/he rushed you... fell in love with you before you'd had a chance to... but then you see the continued wailing & knashing of teeth & apologies & crap & guilt & more apologies & you know that you did the right thing, that her/his affections were manufactured instead of earned by you, there was not love but an obsession to be in love, & on a last "vist by her/him, when you are out of the house for a minute they put Bonnie Raits song "You Can't Make Someone Love You" and they sit with their legs straddling a chair facing the sunset as you walk into the room, one of her/his stalker gifts to you later beingmailed include that same cd.. it is then that you see that though a person may use a strong symbol in one way projected at me (becasue she loved me i should love her), your own advise to others is often your own best advise for yourself.. ie... You Can't Make Somebody Love You, in this case.

so good luck, mr. kenetico. i know it is difficult, & i hope it does not take a court date with your freind for it to sink in that it is over. hey, i've been distraught, & do not know if what ive been distraught over was love or obsession. busts the hell out of a person... makes you talk frankly with yourself eventually though. i bet she'll be just fine with her own healer.

got to be a message in there for me somewhere, but i don't wanna look!

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:28 am

was just thinking more on this subject...

when i'd written above that you see that the person manufactured more into the relation ship than it is.. that you had not "earned" their "love", the word "earn" to me entails not so much tht you have to earn someones love for them to love you... ie.. you are "lovable" as is... but that they had made assumption beyond what the situation reasonably promised.

so, anyways, after my stalker deal, i got way more picky. as in no date for one and a half years-picky. because i'd thought not to want to be a source of pain for someone in the course of finding out if they might be someone you want to spend a lot of time with... be in love with. then i'd look back at stalker, & think "waht ever else i could learn from this person.. she was sent to me for a reason, and maybe i should learn by example & NOT zero in on someone.. make assumptions and manufacure a future before even going to freaking movie".

so i've been dating again over the last two years, and it is hard at first to "keep it real" in your head, when you make a date for instance with a girl on the playa, and your head reels & your heart skips many many beats, and then you miss each other twice instead, and you realize that maybe the loss you feel was unwarranted, your hopes too high? but dammit, you keep it real, your fingers crossed, that someday she or someone pretty much like her sits next to you at a movie, and you wonder if her arm just brushed your shoulder.. then again her knee, and your heart skips & head reels when YES it did it rests now next to mine!

Zane5100 · Post by **Zane5100** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:55 am

PJ wrote:
princess strych-9 wrote:...women abuse power in a far more sinister way then men do...
On the other hand, they don't invade neighboring countries very often.

No, they get their idiot male marionettes to do it for them.

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:05 am

When I was just a little girl
I asked my mother, what will I be
Will I be pretty, will I be rich
Here's what she said to me.

Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours, to see
Que Sera, Sera
What will be, will be.

When I was young, I fell in love
I asked my sweetheart what lies ahead
Will we have rainbows, day after day
Here's what my sweetheart said.

Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours, to see
Que Sera, Sera
What will be, will be.

Now I have children of my own
They ask their mother, what will I be
Will I be handsome, will I be rich
I tell them tenderly.

Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours, to see
Que Sera, Sera
What will be, will be.

Doris Day - Que Sera Sera Lyrics

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:21 am

[quote="princess strych-9]hey, ivy, i'll hold him down if you run and get your strap-on. gang rape, anyone?[/quote]

Oh you, you do love to tease...

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:55 am

> a ticking biological clock.

Sweet pea, your biological clock has another fifty years on it. Relax.

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:15 pm

blyslv wrote:[quote="princess strych-9]hey, ivy, i'll hold him down if you run and get your strap-on. gang rape, anyone?

Oh you, you do love to tease...[/quote]

i wasn't teasing, blyslv.

oh, and flux - if you prefer to be violated i'm sure we can arrange something.....

deeohgeeman · Post by **deeohgeeman** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:30 pm

Responding to "Nipples" last post:

Sounds like the right approach. I've had a similar approach to dating. Keep it casual for longer than I used to. (It helps that I'm maturing, less testosterone "thinking with the little head"). I've never had anyone stalk me, but I did have some wake up calls: a brief relationship with an alcoholic, another with a rage-aholic, and a couple women I've dated told me how urgent it was that she get married and pregnant on the first or second date.

(Although a family seems like a very rewarding possible future, I think I'd like to fall in love _before_ planning out the details. It's pretty unnerving to get that kind of speech on a first date.)

It's a lot easier, I find, to keep it real and avoid the pitfalls of projecting and imagining who or what someone is when you have a circle of friends & acquaintances, in addition to dating "possible girlfriends" because time can pass between meetings, you stay grounded in your real world...

My friends may tire of me talking about this, but I find spending time underwater makes a huge difference in my attitude and outlook on life. It seems the water flips a switch in my head, and controlled yoga breathing becomes a necessity. I feel like an aquatic mammal.
(Aside: see this little thing I wrote: http://www.lafn.org/~az427/WDTP.txt on being a social organism)

My relationship with trees helps too. Basically it gives me some perspective on the dissonance between our time-intensive lives based on schedules, deadlines, 40 hour weeks, etc and the "real world" where there are seasons, growth and change occur over weeks, months and years rather than days and hours.

I can, in part, thank Waterboy for some of this perspective, although I noticed the calming effect of water long before I heard of Burning Man or Temple of Waterboy. In my life I've taken the joke religion of Waterboy and made it a vital part of a serious attempt at living a happy and balanced life.

III · Post by **III** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:06 pm

>all the human males that have never told a fib in hopes of getting sex please raise their hands?

raises hand.

(though i'll admit to lying to get *out* of having sex...)

PJ · Post by PJ » Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:57 pm

III wrote:(...i'll admit to lying to get *out* of having sex...)

That's not a real lie. No more so than are all the possible answers to the, "Does this make my butt look big?" family of questions.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:03 pm

PJ wrote:That's not a real lie. No more so than are all the possible answers to the, "Does this make my butt look big?" family of questions.

I'm sorry, PJ, that cow does make your butt look big.

PJ · Post by PJ » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:27 pm

karmic marshmellow wrote:...that cow does make your butt look big.

It's not my cow.

Zona · Post by **Zona** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:28 pm

Run.....and what Zane said

Zona · Post by **Zona** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:31 pm

Oh and don't forget that you on page one when there are like 10 pages, LOL.

Doomed Relationships

keeping it real

Keeping it Real

Fuck