New burners: Being in a camp / getting involved

[Captain Goddammit]

I see a lot of posts from new burners wanting to join camps because they think that's how they will get involved, participate, volunteer, etc.
I've been going to BRC for 15 years, and I'd like to give a little inside perspective.

To set the stage, I've been a founder of a 100+ member bike repair shop camp, and I've been with a few other "big" camps. I've also been in small camps, and I've gone to BM and simply parked my rig on the outer perimeter and been on my own.
I've been involved with some big art projects, small ones, some fun theme camp activities, I'm a volunteer member of a Burning Man department, I've made a lot of great friends.

The point of saying all that is: ALMOST NONE of my involvements, interactions, volunteering, and friend-making has had ANYTHING to do with where I was camped or with whom!!!

You DON'T NEED TO BE IN A "CAMP"!!

Here's a story, as an example of how things just happen on the playa. One day I was cruising on a small mutant vehicle (riding mower-based airplane) and ran out of gas. I asked the people in the nearest camp if I could borrow a bike with a rack on it so I could go back "home" and get gas (and pour some into their van while I was at it). When that was done, one of them said he was going to put on his suit & tie and get ready for his camp's (Costco Soulmate Trading) evening "corporate camp takeovers". I said "Hey, I happen to have brought a suit and tie, could I come along?"
I did, and eventually they became some of my best playa friends and I joined in on many of those outings.

Another: One of the most legendary Mutant Vehicles ever was The Whale, in 2002. I was talking to the guys putting it together and their generator was causing problems. I had a spare good one, so I lent it to them for the week and ended up driving the thing.

Things just happen in BRC. All you have to do is GO, and you will find yourself attracted to the things that interest you, and you'll end up talking to the people behind them, making friends, and GETTING INVOLVED!

I'm a member of a great camp now, because the people in it are friends I've made. That's who "camps" are: FRIENDS. I camp with them because I want to camp with these people. I don't need any of their infrastructure, they aren't a "hotel". I made these friends simply by GOING TO BURNING MAN.

Read the Survival Guide. Do what it says. Bring everything you need to survive. You ARE a camp. If you want to get involved, sign up for volunteer shifts, Burning Man has many departments that can use help.

[Eric]

That's who "camps" are: FRIENDS. I camp with them because I want to camp with these people. I don't need any of their infrastructure, they aren't a "hotel". I made these friends simply by GOING TO BURNING MAN.

This.
So very much this.

Get the supplies together to cover your basics (water, food, shelter, shade), plop down somewhere, then explore BRC. You'll be amazed how easy it can be to make friends.

[Sham]

Allow me to re-re-reiterate. My favorite thing to do at BM is to get up before anyone else and head my bike in a new direction---ALONE. My day is filled with crazy adventures and new friends. It is usually non stop and will go as late into the night as I can stand.

Again, I now camp with people I did not know before going to Burning Man. I consider these people my lifelong friends. I see them outside of Burning Man when our paths cross in different cities.

No, you don't have to be part of a camp. In fact, you will start to meet people while shopping for supplies in Reno, then on the way. Before you hit the gate, you will know at least 50 new people.

[Zubeneschamali]

Word.

Last year we 'adopted' several folks into our camp. Some were neighbors who were lucky enough to be adjacent to our camp, some were passing thru onto a destination and stopped at the bar and never left, a few dropped in and decided it was a good option because they had no plan. Spending the week together, getting to know each other, we actually fell deeply in love with 3 of them and offered them to become part of our camp.

This has gone on for years in our camp and based on other peoples experiences its pretty normal.

[Captain Goddammit]

I hope some new burners read this.
I'm not trying to say I'm SuperBurner... I'm just trying to get the truth out there that joining a camp - especially one you have no friends in and don't even know if you'll like - ISN'T how you get involved with people and projects and activities.
Most of us spend very little time hanging around our camps anyway.

Camps aren't hotels and you don't need to find one to join just because it's your first time out.
It's a camping trip with a big party. You shouldn't need someone to hold your hand.
If you're that much of a baby go to Disneyland.

[mudpuppy000]

The only reason to join an established theme camp is if you really want to participate in their THEME. If you just want to camp with people to form friendships and have fun you can do that with ANYONE out there. We started out as 20 something complete strangers that met for the first time on the playa and had a hell of a time.

[Jovankat]

Different strokes for different folks.

I've only ever made one real friend at burning man who was someone I just randomly met, not someone in my camp or someone I already knew from here, and even then I met him at a party hosted by my camp from the previous year. I'm pretty sure the same is true for my significant other. Plus some people just like to be a part of something with a little structure. Personally there is no way in the world I ever would have gone to Burning Man solo, know there are lot of groups of folk looking for camps who are being told "just be a camp yourselves" and going solo isn't the same as being with a group of friends but still I think there are people for whom it is the right choice. I agree there's too much just assuming its what you have to do but it's not *wrong* the way this thread is making it sound.

[Captain Goddammit]

being with a group of friends.....
I agree there's too much just assuming its what you have to do but it's not *wrong* the way this thread is making it sound.

It sounds like we agree. I'm currently in a theme camp myself, because I'm being with a group of friends. Not strangers at some camp I only joined because I couldn't handle my own logistics or because I thought you can't or won't get involved with all sorts of things unless it was in a camp you stayed with.

The new people making the assumption that you're either in someone else's theme camp or you're an outsider are the ones I'm talking to.
Usually, when I've been in theme camps, I and others in that camp end up spending more of their time at other camps anyway, wherever their interests and friends end up being.

As much as it resembles one, Black Rock City isn't another planet. Burners are still regular, ordinary people and you don't normally find it necessary or even desirable to enlist total strangers to go camping with. The same issues with personalities, habits, etc. come up in BRC, sometimes even more so. Not everyone gets along. There is such a thing as camp drama, and it's not at all uncommon. In fact, I can name several camps - even the big one I used to have, and the one I'm in now - that have intentionally downsized or even disbanded because of it.

Signing on with some camp where you know no one does NOT guarantee you will have a better Burn. Theme camps can be fun, but it takes a dedicated group of people who all get along and all share reasonably similar expectations of what the camp should be/require/do.

Somehow, the new people all seem to think they need to find a camp to stay with to have a home base. No... no, ya' don't. You'll find where you belong when you are there.

[CyanEssence]

You'll find where you belong when you are there.

I'm relatively new to BM, but +1 to this anyway.

[some seeing eye]

I have to say I'm in enthusiastic agreement with the Captain. A camp is not a hotel for strangers.

But.... if you can make friends in person with other burners before the event, like at your regional, and they happen to invite you to camp with them, and you believe it would be a good experience, you might consider doing so instead of solo. Commerce, like a festival, or a retail store, seeks any and all customers and encourages solo shopping and spectating to control the experience.

[Jovankat]

No Captain I don't think we do agree. I'm saying for some people, even some people who are already in a group of friends, joining a theme camp is the right choice. It's not definitely the right choice and it's not a guarantee of anything but it's not definitely the wrong choice like you seem to be suggesting.

I created a camp last year full of single strangers and small groups, most of them first timers. It went super well and some really strong friendships were formed. There were some folk whose vibe didn't quite fit who aren't coming back this year but nearly all the campers who are returning are bringing extra friends. If I hadn't had a camp to organise last year I don't know if I would have gone, handling all the organisation and logistics of a camp is a huge part of what I enjoy about the burn. Sure there were some campers who didn't put in a lot of work and treated the camp a bit too much like a hotel but I've seen exactly that happen in camps just made of "real friends" too. And really I probably "used" or "exploited" those 50 odd other people at least a bit because I needed warm bodies to organise things for. Different people need different things to make their burn what they want it to be, for me it's having a buttload of logistics work to do, for others it's knowing that they have a predefined address on the playa and a support group of people who've been before and know how to put up a monkey hut, for others it's having a bunch of people in a similar boat to them looking to meet new friends and some folk really want a tangible gift or interaction to be involved with but can't bring the physical elements in themselves.

Different people have different personality types and skills and some people just work getter being a small part of a bigger thing. If you're a group of friends but none of you are particularly leaderly or logistically minded but you all love to get involved and help out under a little bit of direction joining a camp would probably suit you. Radical self reliance isn't about doing every practical task yourself, it's about relying on your inner resources to get things done and part of that is working out what your talents and limitations are and dealing with it, finding people whose talents and limitations match up with yours is a great way to do that.

What I agree with is that there's not enough introspection from new folk about this sort of stuff before they decide to try to join a camp. I'm just saying if, after thinking hard about it, someone, or a group of someones, decide that for them joining a camp is going to the best way for them to get the most out of the burn then that is a valid choice.

[mudpuppy000]

I created a camp last year full of single strangers and small groups, most of them first timers. It went super well and some really strong friendships were formed. There were some folk whose vibe didn't quite fit who aren't coming back this year but nearly all the campers who are returning are bringing extra friends.

Pretty much my same experience. Randomly throwing people together works out surprisingly well. Over the years we've had our share of camp drama but that seemed to come out after we've all become friends with one another ironically.

[Captain Goddammit]

Missing the point ... Sure it can work out fine, but the general idea that's gotten around that you need to be in a camp to socialize, meet people, get involved... That's just not true. At all.
Just because camps of strangers can work out doesn't disprove that.

[Jovankat]

Yeah but captain they way discussion is this thread is worded it sounds like you're trying too hard to counter that idea by suggesting joining a camp your first year is wrong and a terrible idea and that also is not true. At all.

All I'm saying is rather than countering a "black is best" a regiment with "no white is better!" How about we acknowledge there are many shades of grey and they all have their pros and cons and every one will have a differrnt prefer we and experience.

Straight up telling people they should camp on their own rather than really think about what will be best for them and why is almost as bad as telling them they should find a camp.

[dragonpilot]

I didn't get that Captain was saying anyone "should do" anything, but rather do whatever turns you on...just that joining a camp is not an absolute straight path to happiness on the playa...it may be for some. I've had a blast uncamped and encamped both, and know many others who feel the same way. It's a valid post dispelling the notion that theme camps, or anything else external to oneself, is the key to playa happiness. Radical participation, right...whatever that is for you.

[Token]

Shenanigans!

Go to BM to experience something new, push a few boundaries, get out of you comfort zone a bit, not so you can latch onto someone else's teet.

For fucks sake, you want a woobie, BM ain't for you.

The Cap'n got it right. Any other way is the wrong way.

Settled science.

Yoga and group meditation will be held on page two.

[Jovankat]

Bullshit Token. Burning Man is not one size fits all and by suggesting it is you are the one who is doing it wrong you also get bonus points for being a bit of a dick about it too. Maybe camping with a bunch of strangers rather than flying solo IS boundary pushing for someone who is super self reliant but a bit of a loaner in the real world. Self reliance isn't the only principle, communal effort is one as well.

[Captain Goddammit]

It would seem you think everyone else who has been doing this for a long time doesn't know what they're taking about. They call your type "second-year-itis" burners.

I'll not speculate on the reason for your self-described lack of success making friends outside of your immediate camp, I shall respectfully let people draw their own conclusion.

[Jovankat]

It's not that I don't think you know what you're talking about, it's that I think you're being too black and white in your view. There is no nuance to what you're saying, no room for the possibility that burners aren't all exactly the same kind of people with the same needs and desires.

I can promise you when I've been going to Burning Man as long as you I will still be as opinionated, ready to argue with things that I disagree on and interested in interrogating the detail of a situation rather than just speaking in broad sweeping generalisations like you are. That's not a feature of how many burns I've been to, that's part of who I am as a person.

And I can tell you exactly why I haven't made friends with random burners I meet around the city or out on the playa; it's because I don't get into conversations with random burners around the city or out on the playa. In fact the initial conversation with Corvus last year is the only real actual conversation I can remember having with a random out on the playa that wasn't just an obviously "in passing" exchange. So if you look at it like that I've got a 100% success rate. I don't go and sit in bar camps and drink and meet people that way, I don't go to sound camps and dance and meet people that way. Most of what I do at the burn is hang out at my camp running it. That means I do meet (and actually have a real chance to get to know) people that way, mostly they are my camp mates. And frankly I think the fact that at the end of the week people who had spent the entire week living in a camp with me were hugging me and telling me what and amazing job I did running the camp and that most of them are coming back and bringing friends and super are excited about making the camp bigger and better says some pretty favourable things about me. On the other hand the fact that you had to go and drag this otherwise quite interesting discussion down to the level of personal insults and attempts at discrediting my opinions based on faulty assumptions about my character says some pretty unfavourable things about you.

And besides, what ever you may think of me as a person or a burner I am absolutely 100% correct that communal effort is as much of a principle as self reliance. And the fact that another regular poster chose to PM me to say they agree with what I'm saying rather than voice it publicly doesn't look good for you in the radical inclusion department either. In fact they described your thinking as "the cult of self reliance." I think it's pretty sad that you're so stuck in your way of thinking that it appears cult-like. I'm much happier having an open mind and questioning things. But like I said earlier, different strokes for different folks...

[CyanEssence]

I created a camp last year full of single strangers and small groups, most of them first timers. It went super well and some really strong friendships were formed. There were some folk whose vibe didn't quite fit who aren't coming back this year but nearly all the campers who are returning are bringing extra friends.

Pretty much my same experience. Randomly throwing people together works out surprisingly well. Over the years we've had our share of camp drama but that seemed to come out after we've all become friends with one another ironically.

There is a theory called Tuckman's Stages of Group Development that explains why this is the case. In a nutshell, it says that when people first meet, they are more focused on getting to know each other, and tend not to "rock the boat." Eventually, as people get comfortable with each other, they are more able to state differences of opinion. Interestingly, this is required, according to this theory, in order for the group to function at its fullest potential. The reason being that critical feedback and a variety of opinions tends to lead to better results.

The more you know!: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuckman%27 ... evelopment

[Ratty]

Does this theory mention the importance of a pecking order and the fact that we 'need' a person to peck? I'm not cracking wise.

[CyanEssence]

Hmmm... I don't recall ever reading anything about that, but now I want to look into it. I know that in the larger field of organizational behavior, which this theory falls under, there is the sentiment that diversity of opinion and experience is valuable, which in some ways is a roundabout, perhaps even sugarcoated, way of saying it is wise to include the views of those who might otherwise be seen as lower on the pecking order.

[Jovankat]

Recent research into diversity in work environments has found gender and racial diverse teams get better results than groups without gender or race diversity.

And I don't know about needing someone to peck but the right mix of leaders, thinkers, doers and carers makes a helluva difference.

[Token]

Oh my dear JK, but BM IS one size fits all. Anything you can dream up, you can either make happen or find in this One place. But that is not the point.

The standards and norms of BM evolved over decades, and one core principle that really sets the stage for the remaining 9 that follow: Radical Self Reliance.

Once you square that away and get some brawn behind it, the rest flows logically.

If you can't digest the power of that building block and have to have that security blanket, you'll either be a subject of someone else's agenda in camp whatever, or a sparkle pony.

Projecting some kind of communal morality from the real world onto a playa concept really does not fit. Shit is different there for a reason.

Loosen up and just let go.

[FIGJAM]

The main thing the drew me to the playa in the first place was the thought of 50,000 people that could completely take care of themselves for the week in the unique conditions of the playa.

The question I ask people is "If you went to Burning Man and nobody else showed up, would you be fine for the week anyway?"

Anything that happens after that is icing on the cake, but it is not the cake!!!

Of course it's not the only way to do it and there is nothing wrong with joining a camp, but if radical self reliance is the first thing taken care of, everything else is a bonus and nobody is a burden.

I also think that all first timers be encouraged to spend 90% of their time away from camp.

Camp is where you relax, recharge, and restock for the next adventure.

Your camp is not the destination, Burning Man IS!!!

[Token]

...I don't go and sit in bar camps and drink and meet people that way, I don't go to sound camps and dance and meet people that way. Most of what I do at the burn is hang out at my camp running it. That means I do meet (and actually have a real chance to get to know) people that way, mostly they are my camp mates. And frankly I think the fact that at the end of the week people who had spent the entire week living in a camp with me were hugging me and telling me what and amazing job I did running the camp and that most of them are coming back and bringing friends and super are excited about making the camp bigger and better says some pretty favourable things about me. On the other hand the fact that you had to go and drag this otherwise quite interesting discussion down to the level of personal insults and attempts at discrediting my opinions based on faulty assumptions about my character says some pretty unfavourable things about you.

You know, for someone not shy calling others a dick, you sure don't seem to be able to take it after you dish it.

Most of what I do at the burn is hang out at my camp running it.

Are you in charge? Are you in control?

BTW, Burning Man was sold to the masses as a social experiment in community, defined by the ten principles. I think your community thing trumps all. You win.

Fuck, I hope its page two.

[some seeing eye]

For a different perspecitive I fully own see: https://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic ... 65&t=73487

BM has several participant trends: aging, virgin, fly-in/international; all represented on ePlaya. If the BMORG 100 Year Plan is to succeed, we need to bring people in their 20s in in a way they become aging participants, orient virgins on all manner of burner culture and good behavior, and finally gracefully incorporate fly-in participants - that includes survival and an experience that results in them becoming BM messiahs in their remote-from-Nevada locations.

Some many-year burners have built up huge supplies for the event: RV, kitchen, costumes, generators, storage organizers, artwork, camp infrastructure, tech items, chairs, playa bike, grills, coolers, MV's even. Their point of view is going to be different than a virgin, but only a trust fund or independently wealthy virgin can duplicate that and transport that solo.


In my view, bad festival behavior (MOOP and unwanted sexual behavior) and lack of tight knit community reinforcing the culture, for virgins in person before the event, and extending throughout the year and beyond is a greater threat to the event than how much stuff people bring solo to survive in the wilderness. Of course, from the American economic view, "buy more stuffs" is the way to go. (Preferably imported from other country stuff)


More importantly -

Every new ePlaya poster we discourage by attacks is a burner who quits ePlaya after a few posts. They could be a potential convert. Frequent poster. Share their experiences. Personally, I enjoy the messianic zeal of the 0-a few year burners!

How to win friends and influence people, we could improve on ePlaya!


And -

Burners invited by in-person friends and oriented to the cultural values of the event did not create the fly-in phenomena. That was created by the BMORG and display culture on the Interwebs. But it's on us to deal with it.

[ygmir]

so, I lifted this from a thread I made a while back. I feel the need to post it here, maybe it's off topic, and yet, well..........

To Wit:


so, here we are, two or so weeks to go........
stress is nearing max
time is nearing min
excitement-o-meter on full
anticipation overload approaching......
trepidation for some, fear, or even regret............

but, I'll speak for me, but maybe others will agree:

Keep in mind:
we were all new once........
full of wonder, in awe.
asking stupid questions
making stupid statements, promises, proclamations and requests.
we wore the wrong clothes, ate the wrong food, drank the wrong booze............
we tried to stay clean, smell sweet, and comb our hair.
we felt we needed to proclaim, to every passerby, our excitement, and love, of all things Burny.
we proclaim we are Burners, and will Burn until we die....and then once after.
we looked in awe, at the "old timers/old school" burners, who where here, when it was "better".
but, we were trying, we were learning.......we made and make mistakes, but, with the focus and intent, to be "Burners", (whatever that means to each of us).

and, know:

some get jaded.....
cynical......
some become "Burnier than thou", and love to proclaim as such.
Some resent the "Burngins", and how things "change".......
Some just resent change.....or new people........

and yet:

some "get it right"........know the difference between a genuine hug and a smile, along with "welcome home", and a chinese made whistle, in neon colors.
Some learn, and help, and try their damndest, to participate, to make their Burn "their own"........and to help others do the same............

And along with that:

some mentor, help, advise, with love and patience (and necessary snark and humor)........the allow folks to be "what they are" and don't tell them they're "doing it wrong".........they let them learn, and enjoy witnessing the process, that not so long ago, they went through, themselves.
They guide, when asked, or if it's needed, and do it from the heart, to help, and only to help.


we know:
we'll fight, argue, hug and kiss.......
and we know, we have this one huge camping trip, in the desert, in common.........we know, in some senses, we are part of a larger reality, and experience.
we can agree, that when we are "home", we are all home...........no one is a stranger, if they make the effort to be there.
We can meet, enjoy, and laugh.......snark, joke, tease and, philosophize,
and, we can do this, together, leaving judgements and predjudice behind......open and accepting, of truths yet to be known, of jokes yet to be told, of friends yet to be made.......and loves, yet to be kindled.

We, light the fire, that is the spirit of why we go to TTITD.
only we can extinguish it.

So, we feed the fire, we help others Burn......and together, surpass the sum of all our parts.

Know this:
it's gonna be fun
It' gonna be extreme
we're gonna laugh and cry,
freeze and sweat,
dance and sleep.

and it's all about to happen so:

READY

................................................................SET

...................................................................................................................GO!!!!
YGMIR

[lucky420]

Lovely ^^

[Captain Goddammit]

Some new burners think they need to have costumes to wear. Sure, costumes are awesome. But you don't need to wear one to be a burner.

So you wore one and it was great. Awesome, glad to hear it. I've done it myself.
But things are just fine when you don't wear one.

Oh boy, the shit's gonna hit the fan now.

Look out, if it gets bad enough, I might go and say something about whether you need to do drugs out there!