RUGS and the air we breath

burnthis · Post by **burnthis** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:46 am

We walk around the playa we pick up trash that has blown away from some camp. We strain our gray water. We recycle our cans and plastic. We separate everything that is burnable from non burnable. We all do this all week while on the Playa. We do this because we care about the world we live in not because we are told to do so. Then come Sunday. What happens? People start burning materials that are not to be burned at Burningman. Such as rugs, carpeting, couches, plastic, ETC These are all toxic materials when burnt. Does people not care about there air quality we breath. Do people like to look up in the sky and see black smoke coming from the carpeting that was just put on the fire pit. I just don't get it. Sunday on the playa is so depressing after just having a wonderful week with what I thought was like minded people. Then I see we are not all environmentally health cautious. We all don't care about the air we breath.
In closing next year please please please find out what you can burn or not burn befor burning. If in question ask.

MoisturePup · Post by **MoisturePup** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:02 pm

burnthis wrote:We walk around the playa we pick up trash that has blown away from some camp. We strain our gray water. We recycle our cans and plastic. We separate everything that is burnable from non burnable. We all do this all week while on the Playa. We do this because we care about the world we live in not because we are told to do so. Then come Sunday. What happens? People start burning materials that are not to be burned at Burningman. Such as rugs, carpeting, couches, plastic, ETC These are all toxic materials when burnt. Does people not care about there air quality we breath. Do people like to look up in the sky and see black smoke coming from the carpeting that was just put on the fire pit. I just don't get it. Sunday on the playa is so depressing after just having a wonderful week with what I thought was like minded people. Then I see we are not all environmentally health cautious. We all don't care about the air we breath.
In closing next year please please please find out what you can burn or not burn befor burning. If in question ask.

What about rugs made of cotton? You can't burn those either?

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:34 pm

I was wondering about this myself.. there's got to be something better than bulky carpets to use out there. If they aren't burned, they're dumped on the road or in a landfill. What about something that can be reused or burned safely? I remember hearing something about collecting used coffee bags and sewing them together. Has anyone tried that or found something else good to use?

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:02 pm

Hamsters.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:14 am

Dork wrote:

If they aren't burned, they're dumped on the road or in a landfill.

Not 100% accurate. We scrounge our carpet from discarded stuff headed for a landfill anyway, and use it repeatedly, from local events to B-man, until it is too nasty to use again. Then it goes into the local landfill it would have occupied anyway. We have a flatbed trailer and never, ever leave anything behind, well not on purpose. I'm willing to bet we're not the only folks who take their garbage home, and that there are actually only a relative small number of ignorant folks who burn their carpets or let them fall off their trailers. I'm amazed at the number of people who have not a single clue about how to secure a load. HINT: It takes more than some bungees and a rope!

We've used our old kitchen carpeting, and two batches of old stuff from the neighbors' remodels. We're looking at removing the crap in the basement, hence "new" camp flooring next year. You should see the neighbor kids gather to watch us spread carpeting out across the front lawn for vacuuming, funny.

If I were going to bitch about burning evil garbage, my finger pointing would swing toward big couches. Those are even more of a bitch to repack than a roll of rugs IMHO.

I think I understand your point, but I think you may be addressing the wrong aspect of the issue.

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:03 pm

This year at the Center Camp Cafe we woke up on Monday morning to find a sofa city starting on one side. Folks had started dumping their couches for us to deal with. Perhaps they could claim they thought we were taking donations, but they sure as hell didn't ask.

We got stuck dealing with about 10 couches - almost all of them sofabeds. By then I had only about 3 hearty volunteers, as opposed to the dozen we had last year because no one stuck around, and I was already feeling terrible about working them to death. We didn't have the dumpster space, so we had to load 'em up in a pickup, move the to the other side of the cafe (oh yeah they were blocking an equipment path we need to be able to strike the cafe) to where the dumpster was, have someone demolish them with a hyster, then feed the broken pieces into the dumpster.

It ate up more than half a day since we had to wrangle the heavy equipment and an operator, and one of our volunteers got hurt, this nice tattoo artist who was only here visiting his sister in Gerlach, who didn't even come to the event but cruised the DPW morning meeting to see if he could help & hang out. He got nailed in the chest with a bar that popped out of a sofa being crushed. It knocked him down knocked the wind out of him, left a gnarly bruise on his chest and probably cracked a rib. If that piece had been at all pointy, I'm sure he'd be dead. ok it was his fult for standing too close, but still, he shouldn't've had to be there in the first place.

But at least they weren't in the burn platforms. It kills me that people cn e be so stupid. And yes, people do still burn carpets, most of which are made from the most toxic materials on the planet. The cotton ones are still treated with massive chemicals, unless they are specially made for people with environmental illness or severe allergies.

NEVER, EVER burn a rug.

There is a great article on the main site called ENVIRONMENTAL AND HEALTH EFFECTS OF BURNING ON THE PLAYA
that should be required reading. Heck I'd be all for giving folks a written test on the way in.

An alternative is to use washable fabric. I scored these great big heavy curtains a few years ago, three panels of 18ft by about 7ft, each. Once you shake em out and pack em up, they pack down to about 1x1x3ft bundles. Costs about $25 each to have them cleaned, tho I don't bother as they just go back out to the playa and I've managed not to spill anything to horrendously.

Sure it's not as cushy as carpet, but it does the job. Oh yeah, they are a heavy drapey playa-colored damask, so they look relatively clean the whole time.

MoisturePup · Post by **MoisturePup** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:15 pm

So uh... what's the point of the burn platforms then?

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:00 pm

MoisturePup wrote:So uh... what's the point of the burn platforms then?

to keep the playa from scorching and then requiring said scorched playa scooped up and taken to the dump.

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:33 pm

MoisturePup wrote:So uh... what's the point of the burn platforms then?

To elaborate on what Joel said, the burn platforms are provided to allow a safe space for Burners to burn non-toxic burnables without scarring the playa. If fire hits the playa directly, it literally bakes the clay-like ground, hardening and blackening it. The BLM hits us hard when this happens, and it takes years for that patch of land to recover. There are methods for cleaning up burn scars but they require more work than setting up a platform, for sure.

There is some good burn scar info on the main site:

Burn plan- general info abot what is and is not ok to burn
preventing burn scars - how-to for artists that are including fire elements

Hope that clears things up a bit.

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:52 pm

Last year one of my campmates brought a canvas ground tarp for her camp. Swept it daily and it came away from a sesquisennight beautiful, just a very little dust around the edge serging. Easy to sweep as a hardwood floor. Of course it wasn't very comfy to sit on but that's what camp chairs, bean bags and throw cushions are for.

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:44 pm

sea grass mats & rugs are great, relatively inexpensive (when you factor in how many times you can re-use them), are virtually bomb proof, don't collect obscene amounts of playa during use and clean up by simply hosing them off when you get home.

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:23 pm

We had recycled plastic woven mats in the Arktagon the past couple years. They's great, our resident Indian imports woman Dancin' Phuul got 'em for us. Tough as nails, clean up effortlessly, little nicer to sit and stand on than canvas tarps, and infinitely more beautiful. Artistic, low-maintenance floor in less than an hour, what's not to love

falk · Post by **falk** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:45 pm

Any experience with astroturf? I'm thinking it might make a great ground cover in a dome.

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:07 pm

Astroturf can create serious moop, especially the lesser quality variety. Test extensively before bringing to the playa.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:30 am

While Astroturf sheds like crazy, there are indoor/outdoor carpets that are more like felt which are very lightweight, cut easily and pack small. I recently bought a bunch of precut 6'x8' sections (marketed as entryway mats) and used them as surfacing for my portable minigolf holes. One will also go on the dome-deck, and another in the back of the car.
I also use old canvas dropcloths for ground cover in the dome- Keeps the dust down beautifully, and they don't whip around in the wind as much as tarps do.

Sharky · Post by **Sharky** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:05 am

We use a large canvas drop cloth that covers the Playa floor area of our dome. It is actually a couple of pieces sewn together with the edges finished with stitching. The canvas has been painted with off white latex paint and then a faux tapestry pattern painted on top of that. It works great, looks great and sweeps clean with a broom and has the added benefit of being easily hosed off and stored when off the Playa.
Canvas for a floor covering opens up all kinds of artistic opportunities for some extra camp color and expression!

falk · Post by **falk** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:22 am

That sounds great. Is this cotton canvas? Does the alkalai dust eat it away? I was thinking of using billboard vinyl for this purpose.

I'm also worried about the paint flaking off and creating moop.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:36 am

I was just digging out my canvas from last year...still had about a pound of playa in it! The dust doesn't so much EAT the fabric as it does INFILTRATE it. Advantage over billboard material is that spills or rain will eventually pass through- you could poke drainholes in the vinyl, though.

Using an acrylic or latex-based paint on coarse-weave duck will create a no-flake surface- The paint will bind into and around the weave and be locked in. If in doubt, do a little test patch.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:42 am

I use a blue tarp under and over the van for a wind break. Put blankets on the van to save the paint. Got this idea for this year. The shade is 10x10. I'm puting down a tarp that in about 2 ft larger all the way around. Then bring the extra up the sides. Give me a nice floor(covered with dust) and some what of a wind break. Two ft may be to much to step over all week. Might want to ajust that in the front. Added a top carpet inside the van. When I get home, Hang the carpet over a fence and hose the dirt out of it. Let it dry. Wont hurt it a bit. ""Just don't burn the shit on the playa"". This year i'm out with a camera. Will be forwarding pic of camps dumping. Lic plate #s.

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:20 am

technopatra wrote:...We got stuck dealing with about 10 couches - almost all of them sofabeds...., so we had to load 'em up in a pickup, move the to the other side of the cafe (oh yeah they were blocking an equipment path we need to be able to strike the cafe) to where the dumpster was, have someone demolish them with a hyster, then feed the broken pieces into the dumpster.

At least you're part of the privileged few who get to use the local dumpster. We had the exact same thing happen to us, folk dumping their couches, beds, shade structures and so on in our camp for us to clean up, but we had to drive all the trash 80 miles to the closest landfill us normal event attendees have to use.

Not only did it add over a day to our strike time, it also cost us an extra $200+ in gasoline, dump fees, and additional miles driven in the rental rig. But we did manage to get through it without serious injuries...

Ron, empathizing

Nightterror · Post by **Nightterror** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:10 am

unjonharley wrote: This year i'm out with a camera. Will be forwarding pic of camps dumping. Lic plate #s.

Yeah - Vigilante!!!

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:50 am

How much gas does one use driving to the playa and back? How much cheap plastic crap does one buy, perhaps for just that one week in the desert? How many cannisters of cooking propane, day-glo piant or solvent does one use in their project? If one really wants to reduce their impact on the environment caused by Burningman, they shold stay home and compost.

But I agree, dumping shit off for others to deal with out there is just utter bullshit.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:58 am

Let's go one step further. It's utter bullshit for people to be dumping trash along 447, or in the rest area dumpsters along I-80 too. Leave no trace is NOT just a playa thing.

Seeing all that trash along 447 and the overflowing dumpsters just pissed me off. So much for leaving the locals with a good impression of the event...

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:58 am

blyslv wrote:How much gas does one use driving to the playa and back? How much cheap plastic crap does one buy, perhaps for just that one week in the desert? How many cannisters of cooking propane, day-glo piant or solvent does one use in their project? If one really wants to reduce their impact on the environment caused by Burningman, they shold stay home and compost.

.

And I'm releasing CO2 (and Methane) during the entire event, contributing to Playar Warming.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:08 am

Why do people need to burn ANYTHING? Just seems too dangerous and polluting.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:08 am

robotland wrote:
blyslv wrote:How much gas does one use driving to the playa and back? How much cheap plastic crap does one buy, perhaps for just that one week in the desert? How many cannisters of cooking propane, day-glo piant or solvent does one use in their project? If one really wants to reduce their impact on the environment caused by Burningman, they shold stay home and compost.

.
And I'm releasing CO2 (and Methane) during the entire event, contributing to Playar Warming.

Good idea. You stay home and veg. I will go and not release any co2 just methane gases

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:55 am

I was asking for perspective. Living creates some impact on the envoironment. Choosing one activity (rug burning) and compalining about that isn't really helpful. Understanding the big picture and choosing to try and do something about that is a start however.

And Dallas Playa, my project this year entails a fair bit of burning stuff. For one year at least I am a "fire artist." (Where's my fucking grant?). So I gues sI'm a filty polluter and more evidence of what is wrong with Everything!

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:29 pm

I'll stop when they give up on burning that big stick-figure guy in the middle of the city.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:16 pm

blyslv wrote:I was asking for perspective. Living creates some impact on the envoironment. Choosing one activity (rug burning) and compalining about that isn't really helpful. Understanding the big picture and choosing to try and do something about that is a start however.

And Dallas Playa, my project this year entails a fair bit of burning stuff. For one year at least I am a "fire artist." (Where's my fucking grant?). So I gues sI'm a filty polluter and more evidence of what is wrong with Everything!

I can see fire as art. What bothers me is fire as a way to get rid of stuff.

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:18 pm

If you have any art you want to burn, bigger then a fist, smaller then a toaster oven, bring it by. We'll slather it with acelerant and let 'er rip.

RUGS and the air we breath

RUGS and the air we breath

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