Is nobody talking about this?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
User avatar
Koffee
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:33 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Location: Onterrible

Is nobody talking about this?

Post by Koffee » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:14 pm

Whether or not you're into the untz-untz party culture on the playa, this is concerning the Burning Man policy, principles, and the Org's power, so read on..

I just found out from the Dancetronauts F-book page they've been *Banned* from the event for 2015. Here's the blog with details:
http://burners.me/2015/06/14/dancetronauts-too-loud/

I personally haven't been at the 2014 burn, but have had some amazing times spent partying to the D-nauts in years past. In particular, the white party of 2013 was exceptional. To me it is unnerving to see the powers that be take such bold and over-the-top measures at an event that's all about "Radical Inclusion".

I have no sympathy for those who fuck with other people's burn, and I get that it was offensive to a select group, but why ban without a warning a camp that's been trying hard to bring us so many positive times in years past?

What does this mean? Have camps been banned in the past? What was the reasoning?

:|

User avatar
ygmir
Posts: 30403
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: qqqq
Location: nevada county

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by ygmir » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:21 pm

Koffee wrote:Whether or not you're into the untz-untz party culture on the playa, this is concerning the Burning Man policy, principles, and the Org's power, so read on..

I just found out from the Dancetronauts F-book page they've been *Banned* from the event for 2015. Here's the blog with details:
http://burners.me/2015/06/14/dancetronauts-too-loud/

I personally haven't been at the 2014 burn, but have had some amazing times spent partying to the D-nauts in years past. In particular, the white party of 2013 was exceptional. To me it is unnerving to see the powers that be take such bold and over-the-top measures at an event that's all about "Radical Inclusion".

I have no sympathy for those who fuck with other people's burn, and I get that it was offensive to a select group, but why ban without a warning a camp that's been trying hard to bring us so many positive times in years past?

What does this mean? Have camps been banned in the past? What was the reasoning?

:|
you may well want to get more info, and both sides of the story, before spouting. Though, of course, you are entitled to your opinion..........
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan

User avatar
tatonka
Posts: 3549
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:28 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Camp Threat
Location: oregon

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by tatonka » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:38 pm

I was out on the playa and they pulled up and blasted advertising of themselves. Everyone yelled at them and they went on and on about where to see the DJ
Was much crap.
Tales told
Of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

User avatar
burner von braun
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:37 pm
Burning Since: 2010

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by burner von braun » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:46 pm

Koffee, there has been some insightful discussion here, starting about halfway down the page..

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=71856&start=180#p1046800


ETA: Thanks Eric, I guess I had forgotten that the thread was initiated way back when, in direct regard to the Dancestronauts. I just noticed the thread again when Bless rolled in with this latest news.
Last edited by burner von braun on Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters

User avatar
Eric
Moderator
Posts: 9360
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:45 pm
Burning Since: 2003
Camp Name: BRC Weekly
Contact:

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by Eric » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:50 pm

Koffee wrote:I have no sympathy for those who fuck with other people's burn, and I get that it was offensive to a select group, but why ban without a warning a camp that's been trying hard to bring us so many positive times in years past?
Oh, we've been talking about the Douchetronauts since we got back from the playa last year, and since this "article" came out.

They had a warning - they were on probation in 2014, and they fucked up royally. They weren't "offensive to a select group", they received more complaints than any other MV in the history of the event. The site you linked is an extremely biased anti-BMorg website (it's sort of like trying to get an honest opinion on how Obama is doing from Sarah Palin), their only goal is to create controversy and drive clicks to their site. Also, they weren't banned, their application for their MV was denied based on their massive failures under their probation. They can come, they just can't bring their nasty VIP ship.

Since you admit you weren't at the 2014 Burn, I highly suggest you read the thread I linked above to get the reaction of people who were.
It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Eric ShutterSlut
Former Ass't Editor & columnist, BRC Weekly

User avatar
some seeing eye
Posts: 4976
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:06 pm
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Woo
Location: The Oregon

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by some seeing eye » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:29 pm

To the original question -
Camps are not placed based on past performance. Caravansicle and Gypsy Flower Power from 2014 will not be back. Art cars are not reauthorized all the time. See La Contessa viewtopic.php?t=2620.
Every time, some people say too harsh, some not harsh enough and most say makes sense, A-OK.
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

User avatar
Ratty
Posts: 6299
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:43 pm
Burning Since: 2008
Camp Name: Tiger Man

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by Ratty » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:49 pm

Koffee, we talked about it. We all drew our own conclusions. Before you jump in the poopoopool and defend them you should read a lot more. Since we already hashed it over I doubt you can resurrect yesterday's news. I saw first hand their selfish behavior. Their car can sit this one out. Now I'm done thinking about them.

Where is that good recipe for cornbread that was posted last year?
Those aren't buttermilk biscuits I'm lying on Savannah

Pictures or it didn't happen Greycoyote

Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer

maladroit
Posts: 2381
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by maladroit » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:21 am

Ooo, would that be the recipe that includes creamed corn? I'd like to see that again, too. I make a really nice honey butter with a sprinkle of dancetronauts-can-go-fuck-themselves-and-give-themselves-herpes.

Ano
Posts: 548
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:04 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Camp Name: Everlasting Fuck-you's

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by Ano » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:12 am

I like a certain degree of untz at my burn. I think the burn would be boring if every sound camp and party bus up and left the event. It could be a bit quieter, for sure, but I think people grumpy people really over-emphasize the disdain for big art cars, especially here. Like, there are always a ton of complaints about some parties that happened at various art pieces - even when the people who built the art pieces hunt down art cars and ask them to come play all night at their piece. I've known this to happen on more than one occasion, and this board tends to swing pretty heavily on the side of muting most of the untz. That's okay, though, 'cause part of what makes Burning Man so beautiful is all the different experiences co-mingling in a big empty space... from the madcaps to the maddest to the moms. We all co-exist somehow. Kinksters and tech bros and teachers and artists and whatever else.

Anyway, I also really love the cacophony of the main big burn. I love heading out to that circle and seeing every art car blowing off fire, honking their horn, playing music with people going nuts, all the various parties you can float in and out of, all of it. In fact, I really take my time and walk through the crowd until I find the exact beat I want to listen to through the burn, and it becomes a huge part of my experience.

I've had some very intense introspective and personal moments in front of sound camps and party busses. It's the nature of the beast, to me, just like someone telling me that they think Jerry Garcia was a godlike figure who could sing with his guitar like no human, or that sacred geometry is like, the waaaaaaay man. It's different strokes for different folks.

I say all this, because I want to emphasize that I'm not some grumpy person who thinks Burning Man needs to be quiet or anything. I welcome the untz. I also welcome co-existence and, well, being nice.

The Dancetronauts did absolutely everything wrong, two years in a row. I'd even go back to say that their conduct at the 2012 Wall Street Burn was heinous, but that was years ago and I think I'm the only complainer, so, fuck it. In 2013, that Control Tower party was just too god damn loud, no question about it. They were louder than anything on the inner playa, facing directly towards 9:30ish, blasting their bass into chunks of the city (Proof here: I heard it on A and 7:30 clearly, and could even make out which piece of sound was theirs. That entire corner of the inner playa was effectively shut down for their own party... and while I can kind of tolerate that thing, and probably would have been happier had it been music I enjoyed, it was way too fucking loud, no questions asked. It really ruined a huge chunk of inner playa on Wednesday. They could have turned it down, and been fine, but they were blasting at Robot-Heart levels of sound. It probably didn't help that Kalliope, as I understand it, was hooked up to them, making the cone of soundery even larger. But, fuck, even Mayan Warrior and other massive systems who tow the line between breaking the sound rules at least face their bus out towards deep playa, between the temple and the city, to effect as few as possible. Robot Heart parks out in the middle of nowhere and aims it towards nothingness. Dancetronauts... parked on open playa, aimed towards the city, blasted all night, and then kept blasting up until they were a ways into the city and heading home. Too loud, too long. On top of that, I know I'm not the only one who thinks the inner playa is just too fucking crowded nowadays. That party was too big to be on the inner playa. Look at that (illegal-ish) drone video I posted! That's like a tenth of the inner playa, dedicated entirely to the boom-boom of ONE CAR! 10% of inner playa real estate for a non-mobile rave! What about, well, anyone else who doesn't want to hear that's experience?

2014, I walked into the cacophony of the man burn to realize that one single bus was overwhelming everything else. It was Dancetronauts, and even though I was around 8:00 and I'd estimate they were 6:45, I actually could only hear their bus. There were some pretty large systems parked behind me, and yet, all I could hear was Dancetronauts. I was close enough to see conclave performers, and I couldn't hear drumming or anything. Just Dancetronauts. But, okay, you know what? I can dig it. I really can. But, the line was firmly fucked once the DJ hopped on the mic and basically said, "This is DJ (Douchebag), live from Black Rock City! How ya'll doin! My new album, it drops on iTunes next week, check it out, this is a track from it!" - and five minutes later, it was "Heyyy! I'm gonna play a new one off of my album!" - and throughout the burn, it was "WHOAAAA! LIVE FROM BLACK ROCK CITY! HOW YA'LL DOIN! MY NEW ALBUM! YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!"

If they are as great of participants as they say they are, I really can't believe that they didn't take a second to think, "hmmm, this might not be okay." Not once, throughout the whole burn, did anyone shut this guy down, turn the sound down, or do anything to make things better. Just continuous advertisement and bullshittery.

They firmly crossed the line, shat on the line, and then asked everyone to purchase their album on iTunes. That burners.me article is horridly biased, written by a bored wealthy individual who likes to sling shit, write in circles, and argue on the internet. At some point, us folks who enjoy the boom boom need to admit that sound is one of very few experiences that you can force upon other people at Burning Man. Kink can be hidden behind a curtain, you can choose to not attend the puppeteer-juggling performance, but sound travels, far. Sound happens. Sound goes directly into the ground and into the ears of those around, whether they want it or not. And, Burning Man is loud. A line has to be drawn somewhere, to make sure that Burning Man just isn't a great place to catch DJs on slick sound systems.

On a personal level, any sound camp or bus that gets excited about having skrillex or diplo play on their system needs to check themselves and question what, exactly, their gift really is. Filling their own ego playing with rich-boy-toys? Or are they actually looking to give a unique special experience? We don't need the equivalent of One-Direction-as-DJs playing at the burn. There are plenty of small-time DJs who could probably wipe the floor compared to Skrillex's pre-planned sets. Why are we giving time to those guys instead of the amateur? I love Burning Man because it's a bunch of amateurs. I dislike the professionals. I have way more fun when I go visit the janky DJ at the weird stage with one disco ball and a shitty PA system. If I want to dance in front of massive funktion one stacks, I'll buy an EDC ticket. It's cool that some of the best sound systems on earth make their way to the burn, but maybe we should reconsider the ripple effects of that. The length of the Rockstar Librarian seems to have a relationship as to how shitty the crowds get.

This late-night rant brought to you by crippling loneliness, curious depression, and a yearning for a new life. Thanks for reading!

maladroit
Posts: 2381
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by maladroit » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:35 am

Thank, Ano. I think you painted an accurate picture of what we, as participants without a connection to Dancetronauts' party, see from the outside. While the people who created this situation would not have done so if their ability to reason and empathize wasn't severely lacking, perhaps some of the people caught up in defending them will reconsider.

This is a change. It will probably have an effect on the event. However...this event is already stagnating under the push to preserve known experiences year after year. The Dancetronauts are not fresh faced rebels pushing the limits of self expression and getting put down by The Man. They are repetitive, a tired concept, and continually point to the past to try to justify their presence. They believe that they are an institution and should be favored by Larry Himself because of how famous they claim to be.

They complained about being singled out for special treatment...when special treatment was precisely what they hoped would make them immune to DMV rules.

And they, along with other irresponsible sound camps, may directly cause large increases in ticket prices or even relocation of the event due to the trumpeting of top billed performers, turning the event into an entertainment venue for tax purposes.

User avatar
Koffee
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:33 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Location: Onterrible

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by Koffee » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:00 am

Wow, thanks for the replies, and the link. Somehow I missed the very heated debate. I've got lots of reading ahead :shock:

I'm not so much trying to defend what they did or didn't do as I wasn't there, as I'm shocked by the measures taken by the Org. Clearly there's more to this story than the blog I found, but they could have simply made them dock their car at 10:00 along with other sound camps, or at the very least made an official statement citing their infractions of the holy principles.

User avatar
Simon of the Playa
Posts: 22825
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins
Location: BRC, Nevada.

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:16 am

Koffee wrote...
I wasn't there



exactly.




And One More Thing...

ANO, ERIC, MALADROIT and MONK NAILED IT so i won't blurt out the expletives i was going to use.

and for the record, i too like ano, love the beat the beat the beat....i sleep to 120 bpm at 120dB.....we are not discussing the merits of Large Sound, we are talking about people who broke what little rules we as a community have, so please, have someone gift you a clue.
Frida Be You & Me

User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
Posts: 14976
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Camp Kelly
Location: Palm Springs
Contact:

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by Elderberry » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:39 am

some seeing eye wrote:To the original question -
Camps are not placed based on past performance. Caravansicle and Gypsy Flower Power from 2014 will not be back. Art cars are not reauthorized all the time. See La Contessa viewtopic.php?t=2620.
Every time, some people say too harsh, some not harsh enough and most say makes sense, A-OK.
Was that a typo? I thought past performance (and level of participation) was a big part of placement. Am I wrong?
Elderberry

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

User avatar
some seeing eye
Posts: 4976
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:06 pm
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Woo
Location: The Oregon

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by some seeing eye » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:49 am

The Dancetronauts spent time planning the escalation of the situation with the burners.meh guy who wrote a long wandering blog post released Sunday morning. Then the Dancetronauts immediately linked a FB post to burners.meh on Sunday morning. That caused it to be brought up on other blogs and the press where it will echo around for weeks.

If you have worked in any organization, you know to avoid mightily creating a situation for upper management and PR to solve. Now this issue is going to have to dealt with. Likely there will be a review of MV policy, MV sound policy, enforcement, DMV communications and eventually there will be one or more posts on the BMblog which will have to be approved in exact wording by the founders. PR will have to be available for media interviews as needed. It is an extremely unwelcome use of staff time this close to the burn I would imagine.

"It's not fair" and I want my official statement now - doesn't work that way.

The duncetronauts escalating was extremely unwise, but it illustrates (again) the ego distortion of their reality field.
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

User avatar
some seeing eye
Posts: 4976
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:06 pm
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Woo
Location: The Oregon

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by some seeing eye » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:55 am

some seeing eye wrote:
To the original question -
Camps are not placed based on past performance. Caravansicle and Gypsy Flower Power from 2014 will not be back. Art cars are not reauthorized all the time. See La Contessa viewtopic.php?t=2620.
Every time, some people say too harsh, some not harsh enough and most say makes sense, A-OK.


Was that a typo? I thought past performance (and level of participation) was a big part of placement. Am I wrong?
Thanks Elderberry! Maybe it would be clearer to say Placement weighs past performance in placing in the current (and future) years. But I see how the sentence could read both ways. We wouldn't want any confusion on this.
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
Posts: 14976
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Camp Kelly
Location: Palm Springs
Contact:

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by Elderberry » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:58 am

Thanks for the clarification. Had me worried for a minute there. :shock:
Elderberry

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

pink
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:30 am
Burning Since: 2005
Camp Name: Retrofrolic
Location: Stagecoach, NV

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by pink » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:50 pm

Even worse is that the DJ during the man burn was Philthy Phil, captain of the Douchetronauts, and not just some random DJ that might not have known better ( but should have been immediately told to stop that shit by any members of the crew). They should know that shit is totally uncool but did it and kept doing it. Fuck them. And maybe the race to see who has the biggest penis by way of sound systems will stop.
I'm not a slut, I'm good time floozy!

User avatar
MrBeardy
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:29 am
Burning Since: 2011

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by MrBeardy » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:03 pm

Even if they come back in 2016, everyone aside from their core following is going to look at them as the ones that got banned the year before. It would be like Carivansicle coming back this year and expecting a warm welcome.

maladroit
Posts: 2381
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by maladroit » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:12 pm

I'm 50/50 on how that'll play out in 2016.

Their egotism might not be able to withstand the exclusion; right now their "apologies" have had one purpose: try to stir up shit and create a mob, because they genuinely think that they're important enough to rally an army to convince BMORG to reverse the decision. They assume that anyone not wanting them around is merely not informed enough of their greatness. When the reality sinks in, the decision is not reversed, and the Douche Express doesn't roll out of the garage...their egotism might not survive. They may leave the event in a huge huff to protect their bruised egos from further damage.

On the other hand, they might be so competely socially unaware that they'll bumble right back onto the playa next year and not even realize it when they make the same mistakes again.

User avatar
ygmir
Posts: 30403
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: qqqq
Location: nevada county

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by ygmir » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:13 pm

Image
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan

User avatar
Savannah
Moderator
Posts: 12808
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:33 pm
Burning Since: 2025

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by Savannah » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:39 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:Koffee wrote...
I wasn't there



exactly.




And One More Thing...

ANO, ERIC, MALADROIT and MONK NAILED IT so i won't blurt out the expletives i was going to use.
Agreed! Thanks, you guys . . .
[media]

and for the record, i too like ano, love the beat the beat the beat....i sleep to 120 bpm at 120dB.....we are not discussing the merits of Large Sound, we are talking about people who broke what little rules we as a community have, so please, have someone gift you a clue.
Yep yep yep.
*** The Burning Man Survival Guide ***

"I must've lost it when I was twerking at the trash fence." -- BBadger

"Snark away, ePlaya, you magnificent bastards." -- McStrangle

User avatar
Ratty
Posts: 6299
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:43 pm
Burning Since: 2008
Camp Name: Tiger Man

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by Ratty » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:39 pm

Iggy, If I could somehow get that baby as my screensaver at work......(In the casino). Thank you.
Those aren't buttermilk biscuits I'm lying on Savannah

Pictures or it didn't happen Greycoyote

Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer

User avatar
lucky420
Posts: 9975
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:47 am
Burning Since: 2023
Camp Name: Dye with Dignity
Location: Reno, NV

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by lucky420 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:03 pm

Or you could buy one of those masks and WEAR it to work^^
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

User avatar
mgb327
Posts: 1171
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:20 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Camp Name: Playa Penguinos
Location: Somerset, Va.

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by mgb327 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:07 pm

Doooo Eeeet!
Dogs are the leaders of the planet. If you see two life forms, one of them’s making a poop, the other one’s carrying it for him, who would you assume is in charge?
" I am a controlled substance". Savannah.

User avatar
1durphul
Posts: 705
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:14 pm

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by 1durphul » Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:08 am

Koffee wrote:
What does this mean? Have camps been banned in the past? What was the reasoning?

:|
One of the most beautiful and beloved art cars ever, La Contessa, was banned. Dancetronauts were on probation from 2013, and apparently did not insert proper controls to prevent their DJs from fucking them over. They are only barred from bringing the art car for one year. I understand it is upsetting for them.

pink
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:30 am
Burning Since: 2005
Camp Name: Retrofrolic
Location: Stagecoach, NV

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by pink » Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:38 am

If I remember correctly, La Contessa was barred from the event for exceeding the speed limit on the playa repeatedly.

And the offensive DJ was one of the Dancetronauts' founders. Which makes it not a 'we didn't control one of our invited DJs' to 'we think we are above the mores of burner culture that is offended by self promotion/commercialism'. Hell, Pink Jesus got taken to task by the burner community for doing a video that mentioned the name of the ice cream they give out on his personal blog.
I'm not a slut, I'm good time floozy!

User avatar
Eric
Moderator
Posts: 9360
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:45 pm
Burning Since: 2003
Camp Name: BRC Weekly
Contact:

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by Eric » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:04 pm

pink wrote:If I remember correctly, La Contessa was barred from the event for exceeding the speed limit on the playa repeatedly.
If I remember correctly it was speeding, running without lights ("because we're a pirate ship!" :roll: ), going outside the orange fence on a "cruise", and numerous other things. I think the Shark car was either denied a permit or banned for speeding as well.

I loved La Contessa - she's one of my favorite memories from my virgin year (walking up to Esplanade, looking over to my right and seeing a mother-fucking pirate ship sitting there!), but I still have no problems with her getting banned when the owners ran her like fools.
It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Eric ShutterSlut
Former Ass't Editor & columnist, BRC Weekly

User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
Posts: 17258
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:54 pm
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Atomic Octopus
Location: Las Vegas
Contact:

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by trilobyte » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:37 pm

Koffee - as you have no doubt learned by now, people are talking about it (others have linked to the thread).

It is important to point out that there is a big difference between a mutant vehicle's application being denied, and being banned from the event. Same thing goes for camps - there is a big difference between a camp not getting placement, and actually being banned. An objective news source should have very easily been able to distinguish between the two, claiming a ban seems like either a significant bias or hype and sensationalism at its worst... or both. Sure, "XYZ camp's MV application was denied!" doesn't sound as scandalous or sensational as what the site ran with, but they have routinely demonstrated that they are more interested in clicks and likes and page views than they are accuracy.

I'm not going to get back into the specifics of the Dancetronauts plight, I already commented on it a few times in the other thread and I think others in that discussion brought up some great points.

Beyond that, though, I applaud Burning Man and the DMV for holding mutant vehicles accountable. It's a shame that they have to deny anybody, but in a world where they can not license anyone and everyone I think it makes sense for people to be responsible for adhering to posted policies (and in the case of mutant vehicles, signed agreements). If this gives other builders and drivers pause and makes them think about their volume levels as they roll up on somebody else's art installation or event, or come cruising into the city from deep playa, that's probably a good thing.

pink
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:30 am
Burning Since: 2005
Camp Name: Retrofrolic
Location: Stagecoach, NV

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by pink » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:22 pm

La Contessa was one of the things that blew me away my first burn too. I remember going home and just saying, imagine a freaking pirate ship FULL SIZE cruising across the desert! Sails & everything!
I'm not a slut, I'm good time floozy!

User avatar
Bless
Posts: 1441
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:43 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Is nobody talking about this?

Post by Bless » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:10 pm

Interesting article with much of the backstory about La Contessa:

I would have loved to see it with my own eyes.
The mystery of La Contessa

01/30/2007 - 11:28pm

A galleon destroyed by fire. A priceless missing statue. Welcome to one of the great mysteries of the San Francisco underground.

[email protected]

La Contessa was a Spanish galleon, amazingly authentic and true to 16th-century design standards in all but a couple respects. It was half the size of the ships that carried colonizers to this continent and pirates through the Caribbean. And it was built around a school bus, designed to trawl the Burning Man festival and the Black Rock Desert environs, where it became perhaps the most iconic and surreal art piece in the event's history.

The landcraft — perhaps like the sailing ships of yore — wasn't exactly easy to navigate. It was heavy and turned slowly. The person driving the school bus couldn't actually see much, so a navigator sitting on the bow needed to communicate to the driver by radio. Those sitting in the crow's nest felt the vessel gently sway as if it were rocking on waves.

Inside, it was a picture of luxury: opulent, with a fancy bar, gilded frames, velvet trim — a cross between a fancy bordello and a captain's stateroom. And adorning its bow was a priceless work of art, a figure of a woman by San Francisco sculptor Monica Maduro.

The ship and its captains and crew — most of whom are members of San Francisco's popular Extra Action Marching Band — hit more than their share of storms in the desert, developing a storied outlaw reputation that eventually got them banned from Burning Man. By 2005 much of the galleon's crew was dispirited and unsure if they'd ever return. The ship was no longer welcome at the Ranch staging area run by the event's organizers and unable to legally navigate the highways without being dismantled. So it returned to its berth on Grant Ranch, on the edge of Nevada's Black Rock Desert, where Joan Grant had welcomed La Contessa and two other large artworks since 2003.

Then late last summer someone looted the ship, stealing Maduro's work, which was stored in a special box and hidden deep within the ship's hold. Maduro and others have kept the theft a secret until now in the hope that they might find it, fearing that publicity and police involvement might drive the piece further underground, particularly after the reported sighting of a photo of the figurehead on Tribe.net, with a caption indicating it was the latest addition to someone's living room.

And in early December, apparently without warning, prominent local landowner Mike Stewart set La Contessa on fire and had her charred remains hauled away.

It was a sad and unceremonious ending for La Contessa, a subject of ongoing legal actions, and an illustration of what an explosion of creativity leaves in its wake — a challenge that Burning Man faces as it seeks to become more environmentally responsible as it grows exponentially.

It was also a sign of the lingering tension between the giant countercultural festival and the residents of Hualapai Valley, who endure the annual onslaught of tens of thousands of visitors to their remote and sparsely populated region, along with the cultural and economic offerings they bring.

Grant had recently sold her 3,000-acre spread (although she retained a lifelong lease of her ranch home) to her neighbor, Mike Stewart, a landlord who didn't share Grant's love for the annual Burning Man event and its colorful denizens. In fact, Stewart led a legal and regulatory battle against Burning Man in 2003, trying unsuccessfully to shut down the Ranch and thus kill the event.

"I've been with them since they started out there, when they were just little bitty kids.... I adopted them, and they've always been supergood to me," Grant told the Guardian. Although she owned the Black Rock Salloon (which she spelled "like a drunk would say it" and later sold to the Burning Man organization), Grant said she was initially ostracized by many of the locals for supporting the event.

While La Contessa's creator, Simon Cheffins (who also founded Extra Action), fruitlessly looked for land that might permanently house the galleon, it sat at the ranch, battened down against the elements and interlopers. When a grease fire destroyed Grant's ranch house last year, sending her into the nearby town of Gerlach, La Contessa had nobody to watch over her.

A QUESTION OF INTENT

Stewart is one of the biggest property owners in the region. In addition to possessing land and water rights that would be lucrative in any development project, he owns Orient Farms, Empire Farms, and a four-megawatt geothermal power plant.

He leased Grant Ranch (also known as Lawson Ranch) for five years before buying it in October 2005; in that transaction he gave Grant a lifelong lease of her house, a provision she believed also applied to the art pieces she stored within sight of her home.

That was before the fire, which police say Stewart set Dec. 5, 2006, around noon.

"My understanding was it was OK to park it there. But I guess he had it burned down," Grant told the Guardian. "As far as I'm concerned, it was arson."

Washoe County sheriff's deputy Tracy Bloom also told the Guardian that he considers the fire to be third-degree arson, which is punishable by one to six years in prison under Nevada law. Yet Bloom said he believes Stewart thought he had a right to burn and remove the seemingly abandoned vehicle and therefore lacks the criminal intent needed to have charges brought against him.

"According to him, they had attempted to contact the owner to no avail, so he decided to set it on fire," Bloom told us.

He wrote in his police report, "I asked Stewart if he was the one that set the La Contessa on fire and he said, 'YES, I DID.' I asked him why he decided to burn it. Stewart said, 'Because the property was abandoned and left there' and 'I was forced to clean it up.' "

The report indicates that Bloom, who lives in Gerlach, helped organize a community cleanup at that time, in which a scrap dealer named Stan Leavers was removing old cars and other junk. "Stewart said that was the biggest reason for burning the La Contessa so that it could be removed by Leavers," Bloom wrote. Nonetheless, he told us that didn't give Stewart the right to burn the artwork.

"I told him, 'You can't just do that, and if I found any intent or malice on this, you're going to jail,' " Bloom told us. "But I don't believe there was any malicious intent. If I felt like there was any malicious intent, I would have arrested him right there. I thought that boat was really cool. It was one of the coolest things out there."

Many Burners who live in Gerlach — a town with a population of a few hundred people that happens to be the nearest civilization to Burning Man's summer festival site — have a hard time believing Stewart made an innocent mistake. "I think it was a malicious arson," Caleb Schaber, also known as Shooter, told the Guardian. "He's the guy who tried to shut down Burning Man, and he associated La Contessa with Burning Man."

Stewart refused to comment for this story, referring questions to his lawyers at the Reno firm of Robison, Belaustegi, Sharp, and Low. Dearmond Sharp, a partner in the firm, belittled the value of the piece and implied Stewart was within his rights as a property owner to burn it.

"What would you do if someone left some junk on your property?" he asked us.

Nevada law calls for property owners to notify vehicle owners "by registered or certified mail that the vehicle has been removed and will be junked or dismantled or otherwise disposed of unless the registered owner or the person having a security interest in the vehicle responds and pays the costs of removal."

"What he should have done is get letters out and make a good-faith effort to find a [vehicle license number] or see who the owner is, little things like that," Bloom told us. Nonetheless, after talking with the prosecutor, Bloom said criminal charges are unlikely. He said, "Chances are this is something they will pursue civilly."

Also destroyed in the fire, according to Schaber, was an International Scout truck with a new motor and a MIG welder inside, owned by Dogg Erickson, which he said he parked alongside La Contessa so it would be partly protected from sandstorms.

"Everything was toast," Erickson said. "I was pretty pissed, both about my truck and La Contessa. It floors me, and I don't know what to do about it."

Cheffins, mechanical design engineer Greg Jones, and others associated with La Contessa and Burning Man all say they never received any message from Stewart asking for La Contessa to be removed. And Cheffins said he believed he had the implied consent of Stewart to store the ship where it was.

Jones and Cheffins said that while they were securing La Contessa for the winter of 2004–5, Stewart drove by and talked to them but said nothing about removing the ship. "We talked to him about all kinds of stuff, and we were impressed by him," Jones said.

La Contessa caretaker Mike Snook also said that he met Stewart in 2005 while he was with the ship and that Stewart didn't express a desire to have the piece off the property. Jones said there were plenty of people in town connected to Burning Man through whom Stewart could have communicated: "It's a visible enough art piece that if he really wanted to get it off his property, someone would have known where we are," Jones said.

Burning Man spokesperson Marian Goodell told us Stewart never contacted the organization and that if he had, it would have facilitated the piece's removal from the property.

"We were surprised to hear about the fire, absolutely shocked," she said. "It was a very iconic piece, and a lot of people are going to miss La Contessa."

According to Bloom, Stewart also claims to have contacted Grant about removing La Contessa and other items from the property. "He contacted her and said, 'What are you going to do with it,' and she said, 'Do what you want with it,' " Bloom told us. But Grant (whom Bloom did not interview for his report) told us, "That's not truthful," adding that she hasn't spoken with Stewart in a very long time and wouldn't have given him permission to destroy the artwork.

Sharp did not directly answer the Guardian's questions about what specific actions Stewart took to contact the galleon's owners, but he did tell us, "He didn't know the owners, and they weren't identified.... The vehicle wasn't licensed and had no registration and wasn't legal to drive on the road. It wasn't a vehicle."

Whether or not it was a vehicle is what triggers the notification provisions under Nevada law: the section on abandoned vehicles prohibits leaving them on someone's property "without the express or implied consent of the owner."

"It was dumped there, and there is no written consent or implied consent," Sharp told us, responding to our question about implied consent. "In our eyes, it was a piece of junk."

But Ragi Dindial, an attorney working with the La Contessa crew, said that this "junk" was actually a valuable artwork and that he is working on filing a claim with Stewart's insurance company, alleging the fire was a result of Stewart's negligence. If that doesn't work, he may file a civil lawsuit.

And then there's the lingering question of the sculpture, which survived the fire because of the theft — but still hasn't seen the light of day. "It's one of the greatest mysteries in the San Francisco underground," longtime Burning Man artist Flash Hopkins said. "Where is the figurehead?"

BUILDING A GALLEON

La Contessa's massive scale has created problems since the beginning, when Cheffins had the idea in 2002 of rejuvenating Burning Man and his own enthusiasm for it by building a Spanish galleon. It was a huge undertaking that created logistical nightmares.

"It was such an ambitious and, I think, exciting idea.... I wanted to do something fairly splashy, and the idea of a ship had always been powerful," Cheffins told the Guardian recently. "I was strong on the fantasy-imagination side of things and stupid enough to want to do it. Luckily, my ass was saved by Greg Jones."

Jones, a mechanical design engineer, had been playing trumpet in Extra Action for a few months when Cheffins pitched the La Contessa project at one of the band's rehearsals.

"I said, 'Who's going to design it?' " Jones told the Guardian, describing the moment when he took on the project of a lifetime. "That first night I had in my mind a way to do it.... For me, it was a challenge of how do you make it and how do you get it out there."

Hopkins said there should have been another consideration: "You have to build something that you can take apart. Sadly, that was part of its demise."

But that doesn't take away from what he said was one of the best art projects in the event's history: "What those guys did when they built that ship was incredible because of the detail of it. It was an incredible feat."

The idea of a ship fit in beautifully with Burning Man's theme that year, the Floating World, so Black Rock LLC awarded Cheffins, Jones, and their crew a $15,000 grant, which would ultimately cover about half the project's costs, even with the hundreds of volunteer person-hours that would be poured into it.

Cheffins researched galleons, learned to do riggings as a volunteer at the San Francisco Maritime Museum, directed the project, and insisted on materials and details that would make La Contessa authentic. Jones translated that vision into reality by creating computer-aided architectural designs for the ship's steel skeleton, a hull that would hang from that skeleton and be supported by an axle and hidden wheels separate from those of the bus, and the decks that would support dozens of passengers and hide the bus and frame — all with modular designs that could be broken down for transport to Nevada on two flatbed trucks.

"In the beginning I thought they were crazy," said Snook, an artist and Burning Man employee who worked on the project and later took control of La Contessa after the Extra Action folks ran afoul of festival organizers in 2003 for repeatedly driving too fast and breaking other rules.

The ship was built mostly at the Monkey Ranch art space in Oakland and a nearby lot the crew leased for three months. "My mom even helped," Jones said; she joined nearly 100 volunteers who pitched in, many of whom brought key skills and expertise that helped bring the project to fruition.

"The idea of the ship is it was a lady that you end up serving, and she took on a life of her own," Cheffins said. "We all came to feel like servants at some point."

Meanwhile, Cheffins commissioned Extra Action dancer, event producer, and sculptor Maduro to build a figurehead that would be the most visible and defining artistic detail on the galleon. Cheffins conveyed his vision — including the need for it to be removable so a live model could sit in her place — and Maduro added her own research and artistic touches.

"We wanted her to be beautiful, sexy, strong, and also unique," Maduro told us.

All the ship figureheads that she researched had open eyes, except one that had one eye closed, purportedly the same eye in which the ship's captain was blind. That gave Maduro the idea of a figurehead with closed eyes.

"The figurehead is supposed to guide you through the night and see you to safety," she said. "We liked the idea that our figurehead would guide us blindly."

Maduro worked for six months in relative isolation from the ship site in Xian, artist Michael Christian's Oakland studio. The face was designed from a mold of their friend: model and actress Jessa Brie Berkner. The armature was wood and metal, covered in carved foam coated in fiberglass veils dipped in marine epoxy, with sculpting epoxy over that, and wearing a real fabric skirt dipped in epoxy. The idea was to make it strong enough to stand being dropped by people and battered by the elements.

"This is one of the most emotional projects I've ever been a part of," said Maduro, who spent six years creating lifelike exhibits for natural history museums across the country, among other projects. "It was a magical mix of all these individuals that made it happen."

Yet there wasn't enough magic to allow the shipbuilders to meet their schedule. They weren't where they'd hoped to be when the trucks arrived to haul La Contessa to the playa, requiring a final push on location under sometimes harsh conditions.

"The intention was to build the whole deck and reassemble it," Jones said. "But we ran out of time."

Instead, the crew spent the final weeks before Burning Man — and most of their time at the event — frantically trying to finish the project, completing it on a Friday night just a couple days before the event ended. Jones recalled, "We stained it Friday afternoon during a sandstorm."

Ah, but once it was finished, it was an amazing thing to behold, made all the more whimsical by the large whale on a school bus that Hopkins built that year. La Contessa's crew loved to "go whaling" that first year.

"The ship and the whale were the right size, and so it was like Moby Dick and the Pequod," Hopkins said.

Those who sailed on La Contessa insist it had a feel that was unique among the many art cars in Burning Man history. People were transported to another place, and many reported feeling like they were actually cutting through the high seas.

Cheffins said, "It was about creation. It was about inspiration. The whole thing was a gift."

"That's what we heard a lot after the arson," Jones said. "This was the thing that inspired [people] to come out to Burning Man."

STORMY SEAS

A lore quickly grew around La Contessa — and the ship and crew developed something of an outlaw reputation. There were the repeated violations of the 5 mph speed limit and what looked to some like reckless driving as they pursued Hopkins's white whale. There were people doing security who Cheffins says "were overzealous and got very rude."

Some thought the Contessa crew members were elitists for excluding some people from the limited-capacity vessel and for making others remove their blinky lights while onboard.

There were minor violations that first year because, as Jones said, "we didn't have time to read the rules for art cars." And there were stories that La Contessa's crew insists never happened or were blown way out of proportion. But it was enough to convince Burning Man officials to tell the crew at the end of the 2003 event that it wasn't welcome to return.

"They thought we were fucking terrorists," Cheffins said.

Goodell insists that the organization's problems with La Contessa have also been blown out of proportion. "I don't think we consider our relationship to be tumultuous," she said. "They were banned because they broke the rules on driving privileges.... Following driving rules can be a life or death situation out there."

La Contessa remained at Grant Ranch during the 2004 event, which the Extra Action Marching Band skipped to tour Europe. Snook negotiated with Burning Man officials to allow La Contessa to return in 2005 as long as he retained control and did not let Cheffins, Jones, or their cohorts drive.

The fact that there were inexperienced drivers at the wheel was likely a factor in what happened the Tuesday night of Burning Man 2005.

The crew had made arrangements to take a cruise outside the event's perimeter and within 15 minutes crashed into a dune that had formed around some object, tearing a big gash in the hull and bending a wheel. The crew was instructed by Burning Man officials to leave it until the following day, and when its members returned, the sound system, tools, a telescope, and other items had been stolen.

It was a dispiriting blow for Extra Action and the rest of the La Contessa crew, one that played a role in the decision not to try to bring La Contessa back to the event last year.

"[Last year] we didn't take her out because of a lack of enthusiasm on our parts," Jones said.

Yet they checked on La Contessa on their way to Burning Man and discovered that it had been looted again and the figurehead was gone.

INSULT TO INJURY

As mad as she was about the theft of the figurehead and as sad as she was about the fire, Maduro said she feels a sort of gratitude toward the thief. "Assuming we get it back and it wasn't the person who burned the ship down, then I actually owe this person a debt of gratitude."

Particularly since the fire, Maduro just wants the figurehead back, no questions asked. At her request the Guardian has agreed to serve as a neutral site where someone can drop it off without fear of prosecution; we will return the figurehead to its owners.

"I was really sad, and it surprised me how sad I was because it doesn't belong to me personally," Maduro said. "I just always thought we would have her."

The mystery surrounding the figurehead grew after Burning Man employee Dave Pedroli, a.k.a. Super Dave, found a photo of it in someone's living room on Tribe.net — before he knew about the fire and the theft.

"Right after the fire was reported, within a day, I put two and two together and talked with Snook," Pedroli told the Guardian, referring to his realization that the photo depicted the stolen figurehead. "Right after that I started to look for it."

But it was gone and hasn't been seen since.

"I couldn't imagine someone walked into that space looking at all the time and attention that went into every detail and wanting to defile it," Maduro said.

But in the world of Burning Man, where most art is temporal and eventually consumed by fire, it wasn't the fact that La Contessa burned that bugs its creators and fans. It's the fact that Stewart burned it.

"He still looked at La Contessa as a symbol of Burning Man, and he didn't know it wasn't really wanted at Burning Man anymore," said Hopkins, who has heard around Gerlach that Stewart has been boasting of torching La Contessa.

"If it had burned with all of us around it, as a ceremony, it would have been OK," Hopkins said.

That was a sentiment voiced by many who knew La Contessa. Jones said this was the ultimate insult. "If someone was going to burn it down, I wish it could be us." *

Private funeral services for La Contessa are planned for Feb. 2.
http://www.sfbg.com/2007/01/31/mystery-la-contessa
FUCK YOU, I'M A WIZARD. FUCK YOU, I'M A SHARK.

Post Reply

Return to “Philosophical Center”