Big camp, small landing party.

[maladroit]

It's a problem. You might have to talk with your neighbors....

[trilobyte]

So, you're looking to cordon off a large chunk of land for 29+ people?

My personal and general feeling is that if your group has arrived and you're holding space for a couple stragglers, that's not a problem. But one guy staking a claim on a giant chunk of land is like the guy who gets to the movie theater and ropes off a whole bunch of seats for people who all usually show up after the movie's started.

If that's what you're doing, I'd say get more of the team there first, don't be that guy. Failing that, I'd spend some time talking to the neighbors first, make sure they're okay with it (if not - move on), and then with the neighbors on one corner you park your vehicle to mark your other corner at your camp's frontage. Stay at the camp and be outgoing and friendly with people. If somebody rolls up, thinking the giant empty space is exactly that, explain your situation and invite them to set up on the other side of where your vehicle's parked (or across the street or wherever else there may be open space). Staying at camp and keeping friendly is important, a lot of landgrabby folks will disappear for a while and only then show up and start shouting at people as they're partway through unloading and setting up their gear. As long as you can get to them before that happens, things should stay friendly.

[[jim]]

I don't know the etiquette of what I'm about to advocate... but your first arrivals might try to arrive with as much 'infrastructure' as possible.

I would include in my definition of infrastructure: shade structures, evap ponds, shower facilities, and tents.

you can always re-pack the infrastructure your camp won't be using as people arrive... especially if you're running an RV camp.

If you can find someplace suitably sized either on a corner or bordering a placed theme camp... that will reduce the borders you need to protect until enough of your camp arrives.

K or L streets will probably be full of spaces you could use.

[trilobyte]

Land grabbing can happen after the gates, too. One guy basically roping off a 50x100' space... you are grabbing land. For people who are not there.

Personally, I think that if you can swing it in 50x100, that's not too big a deal. I'll repeat, though, that the best thing to do is find a neighbor to be adjacent to first, and then park your vehicle at the other corner of your frontage. Be friendly and outgoing to those neighbors, as well as your other neighbors as they roll up. A lot of "border disputes" that crop up are cases where somebody has already started unloading and putting stuff up, and then the other person comes in and tells them they have to pack up and leave... so anything you can do to keep that from happening will reduce or eliminate any hard feelings.

"Hi, I'm Dave! Welcome home, man!" then the where are you from/tell me about your camp pleasantries, then "my campmates are trickling on in, but we're building a ____ and a ___ and gonna have a kickass dome, and you should come by and say hi once we all get up and running" .... .that stuff goes a LONG WAY. You're working on a great camp, and will probably be a great neighbor. Communicate that, and people will be cool with that.

Once the pleasantries have been exchanged, let them know where your corners are so they don't go setting up in a space you need, you should be golden.

[maladroit]

You can throw things down on the playa that take up space and become an obvious work area. It's not something I'd want to try with only one person, so your fellow campmates need to understand that you might not be able to keep them all together this year.

[Chowski]

I don't understand what you are saying about you not being placed, but having early arrival. Only placed camps get EA passes. Only placed camps are allowed to set up before the event. If you try to land grab 5,00 square feet of land outside placed areas before the event begins, the placers are going to see you and ask who you are. more importantly, they are going to ask who gave you an early arrival pass, and that camp is going to get in trouble for letting you in.

My advice is don't start land grabbing before 10:00M Sunday, then rush like mad to get as much land as you can. Open camping space is open to everyone once the event opens, but closed to everyone before that. Good luck.

[Dr. Pyro]

"Hi, I'm Dave! Welcome home, man!"

"Uh, Dave's not here."

[gaminwench]

Chowski:

Departments (Census, DMV, Rangers, Greeters, Gate, etc.) and Art projects (and some mobile art) assign EAs to worker bees also.
These folks are not (necessarily) associated with a placed camp.

If you are not in a placed camp, but have EA, you camp from G outward pre-opening (at least that was the case last year).

I have no information/opinion on saving space before gates open, outside of placed camp boundaries.

[The Rod]

I don't understand what you are saying about you not being placed, but having early arrival. Only placed camps get EA passes. Only placed camps are allowed to set up before the event. If you try to land grab 5,00 square feet of land outside placed areas before the event begins, the placers are going to see you and ask who you are. more importantly, they are going to ask who gave you an early arrival pass, and that camp is going to get in trouble for letting you in.

My advice is don't start land grabbing before 10:00M Sunday, then rush like mad to get as much land as you can. Open camping space is open to everyone once the event opens, but closed to everyone before that. Good luck.

Lots of people who are not part of placed theme camps get EA passes. Department volunteers, artists, support crews, MV crews, greeters and more...


Edit: beaten to the punch...

[Ratty]

Chowski, I shouldn't even answer you but here goes. You are a bit off on every point. EA doesn't just go with placed camps. What about Gate workers, builders from all departments, greeters, ESD, EVERYBODY! Personally I work for the Potty Project. I arrive early to scrape old signs off the pottys and put on new ones. 1,500 of those little gre/blue boxes. I camp alone with other people that camp alone. I get there first and set up in the closest area that isn't saved for placed camps. (G or H street usually). I have a carport, 2 tents and a van. My campmates will either squeeze inbetween my stuff or move my tents. Land grap? Sure. A problem with anyone around me. Nope. Not yet. But if it ever comes up I'm prepared to squeeze tighter together. Our imprompto group installs bike seat foam and fur covers.

[pretty_monster]

Land grabbing can happen after the gates, too. One guy basically roping off a 50x100' space... you are grabbing land. For people who are not there.

You said Land grabbing can happen after the gates, too... I'm confused. I though grabbing land before the gates openned was not okay?

the point here is that land grabbing is never OK. unless you, personally, bring enough infrastructure material to justify hogging 5,000 square feet, your camp could be SOL. sorrynotsorry.

[Mojojita]

Yup - land grabbing is never ok. The reason you are getting in early is not to save space for your campmates. The advice to bring as much of the infrastructure of your camp with you as possible is spot on.

[JayBobBoy]

Hi Therapist!

You ask some good questions and the answers can sometimes be confusing. If you have early entry, but are not a placed camp, there are certain areas that are off limits until the official opening of the event for the unwashed masses (general public). Please read the city map carefully to avoid setting up in space that is off limits during early entry.

That leaves a couple of choices. Set up and hold space (the way Trilo advises) on the outer streets that are permissible before the event OR set up a temporary site until the event opening and then swoop in to get your spot in the first come/first severed space a little closer up. The first option will be much easier to accomplish and will cause a lot less stress, but Your Burn May Vary.

I hope this helps! Have a great Burn!

[gaminwench]

And, no matter how you decide to do it ... TALK TO THE NEIGHBORS before setting anything up.

Last year, the map showed that our entire (placed) block was open camping .
We all spent a good chunk of Sunday informing folks that 'No, they couldn't camp in our theme camp spaces'.

When we awoke Monday, some poor soul had set up (in neighbor's Theme camp space/the road ) in the middle of the night; the neighborhood Rangers helped her strike her camp and sent her on her way.

Things change out there; the only way to know what is going on around you is to ASK!

[Ano]

Providing an alternate perspective -

I have a small/medium-ish sized camp, unplaced on purpose. 15 people this year. I'm always in on Thursday or Friday, via Gate. I've always roped off space for our camp, after speaking with neighbors, on H or I. We have six people that get in early, on a cascading basis (Thursday, Friday, Saturday last year, all from various staff). On day 1, I rope off about 50x75 with rebar and caution tape, and immediately set up our large shade and my own infrastructure (12x20 + 10x20 + enough room for tiedowns). On day 2, our second set of campers show up and set up what they have (dome + tent + more shade + tiedowns). On day 3, our last two EA's show up and set up even more (van + carport + shower + evap). We supplement our perimeter with cars, making It really obvious where we are dropping ourselves. Our regular access campers show up on Sunday/Monday/Tuesday.

We've never had placement talk to us, we've never had any problems, and we aren't the only people roping off parts of the playa during EA. We have a map on hand to show folks (We are XXX camp, we have this and this and this, stop on by later when we are running!) and we always engage any neighbors before setting up. Usually, Thursday EA, on H or I, we have been the first people on the block, so it's been easy... I'll always check with anyone close by to make sure, though.

Never had a problem, always been easy. Not sure what people are talking about with placement coming by and ripping you a new one about roping off unplaced camp spots during EA.

[maladroit]

Seriously though...you just need four large things (car, trailer, tent, shade, stack o' bins) to anchor your corners and then scatter works-in-progress through the area. Most people will not pick up your clutter in order to make camp if there's an empty space 100 feet away. You can run extension cords all over the place, drop a work light out in the middle, cover an area with shade structure poles laid out for sorting, etc.

You're not roping or flagging it off...you're actually using it. Wastefully, yeah. But everyone will get the picture that you have genuine plans for this space. I would not do this past Monday...your Thursday campers can find their own spots.

[Mojojita]

I have personally been asked to remove orange tape put up to mark off space I was hoping to save. I have watched for years when other people have had their markers removed for them if they weren't in camp to do it themselves. However, I get in very early.

[Savannah]

Providing an alternate perspective -

I have a small/medium-ish sized camp, unplaced on purpose. 15 people this year. I'm always in on Thursday or Friday, via Gate. I've always roped off space for our camp, after speaking with neighbors, on H or I. We have six people that get in early, on a cascading basis (Thursday, Friday, Saturday last year, all from various staff). On day 1, I rope off about 50x75 with rebar and caution tape, and immediately set up our large shade and my own infrastructure (12x20 + 10x20 + enough room for tiedowns). On day 2, our second set of campers show up and set up what they have (dome + tent + more shade + tiedowns). On day 3, our last two EA's show up and set up even more (van + carport + shower + evap). We supplement our perimeter with cars, making It really obvious where we are dropping ourselves. Our regular access campers show up on Sunday/Monday/Tuesday.

We've never had placement talk to us, we've never had any problems, and we aren't the only people roping off parts of the playa during EA. We have a map on hand to show folks (We are XXX camp, we have this and this and this, stop on by later when we are running!) and we always engage any neighbors before setting up. Usually, Thursday EA, on H or I, we have been the first people on the block, so it's been easy... I'll always check with anyone close by to make sure, though.

Never had a problem, always been easy. Not sure what people are talking about with placement coming by and ripping you a new one about roping off unplaced camp spots during EA.

You've been fortunate. But other key elements in your positive experience are that you're 1) only attempting to secure space for 15 people 2) you talk to your neighbors without fail 3) you set up infrastructure immediately after doing so.

[Token]

No means no. No land grabbing ever. Land grabbing is universally a dick move.

If you ain't there no amount of ribbon, stakes and rope will work. Someone's gonna piss all over it.

So what you gonna do? Get permission? Beg for forgiveness? Just say fuck it all?

Tough spot your friends put you in. Damned if you do/don't.



I would, if I was in your shoes, tell my camp to piss off and find their own spot when they get there. I ain't their land grab bitch. But that's me, and I'm famous for my charm.

[dragonpilot]

Exhausted at 2 AM after driving straight thru 17 hours we parked the truck in an open area toward the outer rings and slept...only to be rudely awakened by water truck driver at sunrise informing us we were parked in the middle of a road and had to move! The nerve of some people!

[maladroit]

Exhausted at 2 AM after driving straight thru 17 hours we parked the truck in an open area toward the outer rings and slept...only to be rudely awakened by water truck driver at sunrise informing us we were parked in the middle of a road and had to move! The nerve of some people!

Don't feel bad, some have witnessed a tent springing up overnight in the center of an intersection!

[soona]

We have a mid-size unplaced but awesome camp with interactive fun for passersby. No EA passes, we arrive Monday at dawn and start to search. And what we see is a ton of large empty roped-off areas with maybe one person or couple saying they're holding it for their large camp that isn't there yet. And I have watched some of these areas when we've camped near them, and seen stragglers coming in Tues or Wed or Thurs to their spacious saved areas.

Hey! When we have all 15 of our peeps and gear show up at once, it just doesn't seem right that one person should hold 50x100 - or more - whether they got in EA or just a few hours before us.

Posters above say "talk to your neighbors . . ." but what about all the arrivals driving back and forth looking for space? I think you should have well over 50% of your camp in place (peeps and infrastructure) if you're gonna hold acreage! Mr Big Camp Small Landing Party: tell your peeps they need to be coming in the gates Sunday am, or it just isn't fair to others for them to expect you to hold space for them.

Another issue: Is it really true (Tribs?) that placed camps that aren't occupied when the gates open become fair game? I don't want to be a dick and I certainly don't want conflicts. But last year there was a huge placed lot around 6:30, I think, completely empty until mid-week when a convoy of RVs finally showed up and put walls around the perimeter, but it still seemed like nothing was going on inside the huge space in the middle (we rode by it daily heading to the playa or the porta-potties). There was another empty lot across from my friends' placed camp around 7:30 & D-ish - they said they wished we'd grabbed it because a convoy of RVs rolled into that one about Tues and put a huge wall across the street from our friends. They tried to interact with them but didn't have much good to say about their friendliness.

So yeah - this is an issue for us - a large group that all comes in together, unplaced, and finds a ton of roped-off but otherwise largely unoccupied spaces.

[Savannah]

So yeah - this is an issue for us - a large group that all comes in together, unplaced, and finds a ton of roped-off but otherwise largely unoccupied spaces.

I feel like me and you are in the same boat though, Most of us will be arriving sunday morning, so if anything I'll be holding down area for like 1-3 hours anyways. Do you think a more 'proper' way to go about this would be to have a meetup location on playa somewhere on the outer rim, get a posse together, then find a place to camp from there? does that sound similar to how you guys do it?

The great thing about that is that it would probably be easier to find each other and then (once you have checked the map and talked to the neighbors) easier to hold down your spot, 'cause you're just about all there. You'd even be able to get space for one or two stragglers without worry or obnoxiousness.

(Trying to hold more space than one can adequately or appropriately defend is actually pretty stressful!)