Lag screws vs everything else...

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.
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maladroit
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:26 am

I lied about the hacksaw thing, I actually create a clay form that holds a long piece of chain, with sprues to hold little piles of thermite powder. Cuts 20 feet of chain in one sip of beer.

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Bemerritt
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Bemerritt » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:34 pm

was testing my lag screws last night and just want to confirm my experience.

Ground was pretty loose dirt. some lags went all the way down, others stopped about an inch shy. This was due to me using a deep socket and not putting anymore downward force on the screw. This should not be a problem on the playa due to the under-playa gripping the threads and needing no downward force to go all the way in, right?

is there any advantage, disadvantage to the deep sockets? Thanks!

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skippy3k
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by skippy3k » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:47 pm

I didn't use a deep socket but my lag bolts sunk so solidly into the playa that they bent my footings for the EMT structure. So yeah...assuming the playa is like it usually is, you should be fine. It won't just spin in place.
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tbucks
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by tbucks » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:46 am

I tried searching but haven't found it.

What size chain link for the 3/8" by 14" lag screws. Want to get a head start on cutting the links before the screws arrive.

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FIGJAM
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:47 am

Then take a 3/8" bolt to the chain store. :?
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tbucks
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by tbucks » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:57 am

FIGJAM wrote:Then take a 3/8" bolt to the chain store. :?
I guess thats true. I have some shorter ones laying around I could take. I guess the heads are the same size. I should have realized that :oops:

maladroit
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:07 pm

Generally you buy chain from a hardware store...they'll have some 3/8" lag screws around.

tbucks
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by tbucks » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:29 pm

maladroit wrote:Generally you buy chain from a hardware store...they'll have some 3/8" lag screws around.
Went by today and got the 1/4" chain link. No one was there to cut it, so I've started with a sawzall and bolt cutters. Both ways are pretty simple. It was better than standing around waiting for someone in home depot.

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FIGJAM
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:33 pm

The difference is that you don't pay for the cut links and their footage if the store cuts them. :lol:
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tbucks
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by tbucks » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:38 pm

FIGJAM wrote:The difference is that you don't pay for the cut links and their footage if the store cuts them. :lol:
Thats what I was hoping for. But I think it depends on who you get and what location. The one guy that kind of helped me, when I told him what I wanted he said he couldn't do it because he would waste one link per cut. So I told him I'd pay for the full length before if he'd make the cuts. He then walked away to get someone who works in hardware, never to be seen again. Five or six calls over the intercom for assistance went unanswered, so I finally just took what they had left and decided I'd do it myself. Avoid home depot in Hayward, CA.

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Bemerritt
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Bemerritt » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:40 pm

FIGJAM wrote:The difference is that you don't pay for the cut links and their footage if the store cuts them. :lol:
I had to pay for all of the cut links. I wanted to complain, but then again, they did all the cutting for me.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by tbucks » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:10 pm

Bemerritt wrote:
FIGJAM wrote:The difference is that you don't pay for the cut links and their footage if the store cuts them. :lol:
I had to pay for all of the cut links. I wanted to complain, but then again, they did all the cutting for me.

We need about 60 or so, but I only asked for 20. Figured I would make a few trips. But bolt cutters are not bad and the sawzall was not too bad either.

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Elliot
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Elliot » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:05 pm

Regarding the problem of bent lags.... I just received another 50 of the 3/8 x 14 from fastenersuperstore.com, and they are fine.

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FIGJAM
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:41 pm

WARNING!!!!

Don't lag behind!!!
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maladroit
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:46 pm

I got a few bent lags last year, but I just relied on my Midwest ability to accept hardship and choke back the tears.

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Elliot
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Elliot » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:00 pm

That, and a quick whack with a mallet.

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deutlich
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by deutlich » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:11 am

I've got a set of 4 each of these:
Image

Planning to use the fatter ones for my 6-person tent. And two of the skinnier ones as extra support, because I could only find these in 10" even though I really wanted 12"

I'll keep an eye on each of them as the week progresses and if it appears they're loosening up I have another pair to use for more support.

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MacGlenver
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by MacGlenver » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:49 am

Bemerritt wrote:was testing my lag screws last night and just want to confirm my experience.

Ground was pretty loose dirt. some lags went all the way down, others stopped about an inch shy. This was due to me using a deep socket and not putting anymore downward force on the screw. This should not be a problem on the playa due to the under-playa gripping the threads and needing no downward force to go all the way in, right?

is there any advantage, disadvantage to the deep sockets? Thanks!
You shouldnt have to put much downward force on the screw, as the screw should... well... screw itself into the ground. Just keep your finger on the trigger. Deep sockets shouldnt make any difference.

I tried to do test build last weekend and it was a partial failure because the ground we built on would not hold the screws. They went in with an impact driver, but if often wouldnt even have to switch to "impact mode", it just screwed them in, indicating the ground was super weak. Some fell thru into random hollow pockets entirely. Never seen that happen on the playa.
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maladroit
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:56 am

MacGlenver wrote:I tried to do test build last weekend and it was a partial failure because the ground we built on would not hold the screws. They went in with an impact driver, but if often wouldnt even have to switch to "impact mode", it just screwed them in, indicating the ground was super weak. Some fell thru into random hollow pockets entirely. Never seen that happen on the playa.
Just want to confirm, the tests above were NOT on the playa, correct?

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Canoe
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Canoe » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:39 pm

deutlich wrote:I've got a set of 4 each of these:
Planning to use the fatter ones for my 6-person tent. And two of the skinnier ones as extra support, because I could only find these in 10" even though I really wanted 12"
I'll keep an eye on each of them as the week progresses and if it appears they're loosening up I have another pair to use for more support.
Those skinny ones are usually billed 'as strong as 1/2" lag-screws'. Seem to do that job where I've used them, but that's in wood construction, not as playa-anchors.

For on-playa use, longer is better as it's that deep playa soil that's the hardest to drill into and holds the most. But if you're into undisturbed playa and your guy-lines are long enough, then the vertical load will be minimal and it's likely to be o.k.. If they're for anchoring the corners of the footprint, that should be good enough, if you've got well secured guy-lines.
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mudpuppy000
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by mudpuppy000 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:17 am

MacGlenver wrote:
Bemerritt wrote:was testing my lag screws last night and just want to confirm my experience.

Ground was pretty loose dirt. some lags went all the way down, others stopped about an inch shy. This was due to me using a deep socket and not putting anymore downward force on the screw. This should not be a problem on the playa due to the under-playa gripping the threads and needing no downward force to go all the way in, right?

is there any advantage, disadvantage to the deep sockets? Thanks!
You shouldnt have to put much downward force on the screw, as the screw should... well... screw itself into the ground. Just keep your finger on the trigger. Deep sockets shouldnt make any difference.

I tried to do test build last weekend and it was a partial failure because the ground we built on would not hold the screws. They went in with an impact driver, but if often wouldnt even have to switch to "impact mode", it just screwed them in, indicating the ground was super weak. Some fell thru into random hollow pockets entirely. Never seen that happen on the playa.
Haven't tried them on the playa yet, but in rocky soils, the shallow sockets are better if you have to get through rocks for the last inch or two.

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deutlich
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by deutlich » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:50 am

Canoe wrote:
deutlich wrote:I've got a set of 4 each of these:
Planning to use the fatter ones for my 6-person tent. And two of the skinnier ones as extra support, because I could only find these in 10" even though I really wanted 12"
I'll keep an eye on each of them as the week progresses and if it appears they're loosening up I have another pair to use for more support.
Those skinny ones are usually billed 'as strong as 1/2" lag-screws'. Seem to do that job where I've used them, but that's in wood construction, not as playa-anchors.

For on-playa use, longer is better as it's that deep playa soil that's the hardest to drill into and holds the most. But if you're into undisturbed playa and your guy-lines are long enough, then the vertical load will be minimal and it's likely to be o.k.. If they're for anchoring the corners of the footprint, that should be good enough, if you've got well secured guy-lines.
Yeah, I wasn't super sure so I texted all the people I know who are accustom to Playa conditions, physics, camping and/or building things. I got an okay all across the board but will have to see how it works out on the Playa.

Keeping my fingers and toes crossed.

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MacGlenver
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by MacGlenver » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:29 pm

maladroit wrote:
MacGlenver wrote:I tried to do test build last weekend and it was a partial failure because the ground we built on would not hold the screws. They went in with an impact driver, but if often wouldnt even have to switch to "impact mode", it just screwed them in, indicating the ground was super weak. Some fell thru into random hollow pockets entirely. Never seen that happen on the playa.
Just want to confirm, the tests above were NOT on the playa, correct?
Correct. I was not on the playa. I was testing at a local park. God help us all if the playa is that weak.
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DoctorIknow
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by DoctorIknow » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:55 pm

Bemerritt wrote:
FIGJAM wrote:The difference is that you don't pay for the cut links and their footage if the store cuts them. :lol:
I had to pay for all of the cut links. I wanted to complain, but then again, they did all the cutting for me.
I didn't have the nerve to ask an HD employee to cut my 15 feet of chain into 2 link pieces....

I borrowed a 4" grinder with metal cutting disc (used just one)
One needs an anchored vise
One needs goggles
One needs some patience, but I did all cuts in about 40 minutes
You can see the pile of broken links...

I'm going to use the cut pieces if I need to tie down the tent or shade: to connect the solid chain link on the lag screw to the grommet in the tent or shade.

The links may also be useful at home to hang something heavy from a beam or tree.

I won't use the links where structure needs to be secure, (like the four corners of a tent) as wind shifting around could make the connection come off. I suppose I could use blue tape to close it off, but a piece of tied paracord would be better if there is any doubt the broken link could shift around...

Also, tried out the Harbor Freight 120v impact wrench in the park. Didn't go deep with the lags as I was under a shade tree and didn't wanna get arrested for harming the tree roots. I don't like Harbor Freight for most tools, but this isn't a tool I'll use very often.
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Thedarkerdark
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Thedarkerdark » Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:33 pm

SourPatch wrote:Another lag screw convert here.
Our camp used close to 100 screws+links sets, even for small tents. Thirteen screws held a 9x9x18 boxy structure during the windy days, no problem.
We had a Porter Cable cordless impact driver (http://www.lowes.com/pd_234058-70-PCCK6 ... facetInfo=). We definitely needed 2 batteries and a charger in order to get the entire camp done (installing and breaking down) but the machine had enough torque to easily drive the screws into the ground.
Thank you FigJam for improving so many people's burns.

Hey Sour Patch. I have this impact driver... trying to get acquainted with it but what kind of adapter or head did you use for the lag screws?

Thanks.

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rideincircles
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by rideincircles » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:31 pm

This is what you will need along with some deep sockets. You can use any brand.

http://www.harborfreight.com/hex-drill- ... 68513.html

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MFOB
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by MFOB » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:50 pm

How about cleaning them up after sitting since last year. They are Playa caked and a bit rusty, anyone got a solution so they are so hard to drive?
These angles are all fenced up!

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SourPatch
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by SourPatch » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:55 pm

Thedarkerdark wrote:Hey Sour Patch. I have this impact driver... trying to get acquainted with it but what kind of adapter or head did you use for the lag screws?

Thanks.
rideincircles wrote:This is what you will need along with some deep sockets. You can use any brand.

http://www.harborfreight.com/hex-drill- ... 68513.html
^^^ Yep.

Take one lag screw to your local home improvement store and find the stuff from the link above and a socket that will fit your lags' hex head.
Overkill or go home.

Thedarkerdark
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Thedarkerdark » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:59 pm

SourPatch wrote:
Thedarkerdark wrote:Hey Sour Patch. I have this impact driver... trying to get acquainted with it but what kind of adapter or head did you use for the lag screws?

Thanks.
rideincircles wrote:This is what you will need along with some deep sockets. You can use any brand.

http://www.harborfreight.com/hex-drill- ... 68513.html
^^^ Yep.

Take one lag screw to your local home improvement store and find the stuff from the link above and a socket that will fit your lags' hex head.
Excellent. Thank you.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Roundabout » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:13 pm

MFOB wrote:How about cleaning them up after sitting since last year. They are Playa caked and a bit rusty, anyone got a solution so they are so hard to drive?
Drive them into the ground at home and leave for 24 hours. The acidity in your local soil will counteract the playa. When you retrieve them, they will be clean. This works for me in my location.
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