Lampman tragedy and greed

Karma13 · Post by **Karma13** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:50 am

[quote="mdmf007"]Our art car does not come to playa without insurance,[/quote]

Non sequitur?

In this case, the entire camp, every individual, was joined in the lawsuit and had to hire their own attorneys.

Post by **mdmf007** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:33 am

Karma13 wrote:
mdmf007 wrote:Our art car does not come to playa without insurance,
Non sequitur?

In this case, the entire camp, every individual, was joined in the lawsuit and had to hire their own attorneys.

What does not follow? We learned from the hard lesson of Lampman that insurance is a good value. Too late for those folks though

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:46 pm

did you inform your insurer that they were insuring a highly modified vehicle used to transport people at Burning Man in varying states of intoxication without seatbelts and headrests?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:29 am

I would assume so. Even if they did not, others do.

And I'm another vote for insurance.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:47 am

sort of the bummer (one of many) to our litigious society, is, anyone, can sue whomever they want, for almost anything.
so, having insurance on the vehicle, does not automatically exclude you, as a camp member, from being named (and having to defend yourself) in a lawsuit.
And, signing waivers etc. really means nothing.
You can not "waive" a "right". and, you have the "right" under our system, to sue and be sued.

some underhanded, grubbing (not all mind you) lawyers, will name anyone and everyone they can, hoping, it'll stick somewhere...........

just scary stuff, really.

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:07 am

ygmir wrote:sort of the bummer (one of many) to our litigious society, is, anyone, can sue whomever they want, for almost anything.
so, having insurance on the vehicle, does not automatically exclude you, as a camp member, from being named (and having to defend yourself) in a lawsuit.
And, signing waivers etc. really means nothing.
You can not "waive" a "right". and, you have the "right" under our system, to sue and be sued.

some underhanded, grubbing (not all mind you) lawyers, will name anyone and everyone they can, hoping, it'll stick somewhere...........

just scary stuff, really.

Well, IMHO the "litigious society" was brought about when lawyers were given the "right" to advertise their services on TV. Before that, people were to uneducated to know that the courts were just like the lottery but with way better odds. If people are so uneducated about our legal system except for what they hear in a 30 second 'so and so got me 30 million dollars' commercial, they should not have the privilege of using it to begin with. I think Ralph Nader had a lot to do with this. (No, really.)

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:13 am

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:sort of the bummer (one of many) to our litigious society, is, anyone, can sue whomever they want, for almost anything.
so, having insurance on the vehicle, does not automatically exclude you, as a camp member, from being named (and having to defend yourself) in a lawsuit.
And, signing waivers etc. really means nothing.
You can not "waive" a "right". and, you have the "right" under our system, to sue and be sued.

some underhanded, grubbing (not all mind you) lawyers, will name anyone and everyone they can, hoping, it'll stick somewhere...........

just scary stuff, really.
Well, IMHO the "litigious society" was brought about when lawyers were given the "right" to advertise their services on TV. Before that, people were to uneducated to know that the courts were just like the lottery but with way better odds. If people are so uneducated about our legal system except for what they hear in a 30 second 'so and so got me 30 million dollars' commercial, they should have the privilege of using it to begin with. I think Ralph Nader had a lot to do with this. (No, really.)

I agree, JK, and, might add that our society (promoted by "ambulance chasers"), has this

"get something for nothing, I want anything I can get for free, they're a big company or insurance company, and can afford it, so it won't hurt them to make me rich"

attitude.

Post by **mdmf007** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:50 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote:did you inform your insurer that they were insuring a highly modified vehicle used to transport people at Burning Man in varying states of intoxication without seatbelts and headrests?

The insurer knows of the event and we relayed the risks as accurately as possible, because what good is insurance if they are simply going to abrogate the policy.

Our policy states in not the exact language I am sure "Every reasonable precaution to ensure safety of passengers shall be in place. Drivers shall not be impaired, railings and steps will be inspected regularly..."

1200 bucks for one weeks insurance rider. Havent talked about this years though.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:33 pm

The usual reasons for naming everyone connected has nothing to do with greed, more with cooperation.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:58 pm

mdmf007: good! you did it right. In other threads folks have mentioned getting insurance on their RV without informing the insurer of the highly modified nature of what has become an art car.

My reason for asking was to alert you to the possibility that an insurer, without knowledge of the art-car mods or BM event, could void the policy for material misrepresentation. But, you've sussed it out.

While I agree (and think I posted earlier) that having insurance doesn't give you immunity from being named as a defendant in a lawsuit, what insurance does do is provide you with a legal defense at the insurance company's expense. Almost all liability policies provide the policyholder with two very important and distinct benefits. 1) duty of a legal defense and, 2) a source of funds (up to the policy limits) to indemnify the policy holder from a verdict. Of course, the vast majority of civil cases settle before trial but the settlement, obviously, is paid by the insurance company

Karma13 · Post by **Karma13** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:50 pm

Remembering this incident. Horrible tragedy that resulted in many campers who merely contributed to the decoration of an art car having to pay attorneys thousands of dollars plus an eventual settlement. Crazy.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:27 pm

Christ, has it really been ten years ago?

So much water under the bridge. So much dust blown in the wind.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:44 pm

Pretty sure it's a full dozen, Iso. It was my 2nd year.

Bless · Post by **Bless** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:42 pm

I wonder how this unfortunate case and its aftermath compare to the similar tragedy last year.

Lampman tragedy and greed

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