BM photos stolen and sold illegally on Shutterfly

Tristan · Post by **Tristan** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:10 am

A person by the name of "Jack Fones" has been posting on Shutterfly a series of photos from other photographers without their authorizations and without the proper credits, which is a blattant copyright violation. Futhermore this person has cropped purposely the bottom part of the photos remove the copyright notice of their authors.

The Shutterfly gallery containing this illegal content is:
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... &sm=0&sl=0

I counted at least 15 photos "stolen" from my website www.playa-dust.com, without my authorization, and cropped to remove the copyright notice present on my original photos. I can provide you the URLs of all those photos if you need.

Photo stolen and manipulated to remove copyright:
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... TsQ&idx=40

The original photo is here:
http://www.playa-dust.com/pages/dsc1037 ... -2004.html

The same is true for all the following photos, stolen from http://www.playa-dust.com:

http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... TsQ&idx=38
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... TsQ&idx=41
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... TsQ&idx=95
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... TsQ&idx=96
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... TsQ&idx=97
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... TsQ&idx=98
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... TsQ&idx=99
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... sQ&idx=100
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... sQ&idx=101
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... sQ&idx=102
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... sQ&idx=103
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... sQ&idx=104
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... sQ&idx=105
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... sQ&idx=106

I recognized several other photos in this gallery that I have seen on other websites, so I wouldn't be surprised if all the other photos in this gallery have been "stolen" the same way.

I don't know if this person benefits in any way of the sales of prints of those photos by Shutterfly, but Shutterfly does benefit of these sales, in violation of the copyright by their respective author and by the Burning Man Organization (who also has copyright on all the photos taken at the event). Copyright violation is a crime in the US.

Shutterfly and Burning Man Organization have been notified.

Check this URL:
http://share-adobe.shutterfly.com/actio ... &sm=0&sl=0
and if you see any photos stolen from other photographers, please post their URL's here and notify them.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:18 am

Um your link: www.playa-dust.com is not working.

Would that make a diffrence?

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:19 am

But it is now.

(you had a comma behind it.)

Tristan · Post by **Tristan** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:21 am

it's working just fine for me (and i am 50 miles from the server), maybe you have network problems ?

naturally it makes no difference, and you can also see most of my photos on the BM gallery at http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi? ... 13&go.y=16

You'll recognize some of the stolen photos.

Tristan · Post by **Tristan** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:23 am

DVD Burner wrote:But it is now.

(you had a comma behind it.)

ooops, yes, there was a column after the link, and it broke it in this forum. and unfortunately postings still cannot be edited (why?).

the link to my BM photo website is www.playa-dust.com

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:26 am

Aww you dont need no stinkin edit button. We know what ya mean.

Sensei · Post by **Sensei** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:32 am

Nail 'em, Tristan. And use the really big nails, too.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:45 am

Tristan, anything else we can do?

(For those of you who don't yet know Tristan, he rocks. And as you can see, his photos do, too....)

Tristan · Post by **Tristan** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:05 am

Well, if you recognize other stolen photos on this shutterfly page, let the other photographers know.

I don't see what else we could do...

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:13 am

Tristan wrote:Well, if you recognize other stolen photos on this shutterfly page, let the other photographers know.

I don't see what else we could do...

sue the site.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:01 am

Tristan,

I'd get all my ducks in a row before I alerted anyone associated with the web site or the person claimin them as their work. Probably best to see a lawyer, document the pages/links/URLs/etc. before they get pulled down. Using this forum as a place to vent is one thing but you'd best step away from asking any of us fools for legal advice for what is undoubtedly theft.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:33 am

Yup, seconding Badger's post. I've had some work training in copyright protection and a college class that dealt with it in respect to the IT field.

There are two issues that need to be addressed before going into a courtroom. 1) Do you have proof that the people made money off of your work, meaning traceable receipts? Is this proof in your hand (physical)? 2) The fact that the artwork stolen was posted on the Internet (in a public forum).

The courts are still trying to define 'the Internet' and establishing how copyrights work over cyberspace. Precedence is being established, but there is still more road to be paved. A copyright lawyer will help you out.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:00 am

1) Do you have proof that the people made money off of your work, meaning traceable receipts? Is this proof in your hand (physical)?

Just curious. Can the first issue be settled by purchasing your own photo from the site? Seems that'd be proof positive of *someone* making money off of the work.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:17 am

Badger wrote:
1) Do you have proof that the people made money off of your work, meaning traceable receipts? Is this proof in your hand (physical)?
Just curious. Can the first issue be settled by purchasing your own photo from the site? Seems that'd be proof positive of *someone* making money off of the work.

Ouch. Not a lawyer by any means, but this makes me wonder whether entrapment is valid in civil cases. Also, how could you claim damages when they are self-inflicted?

"Your honor, the defendant made $100 from illegally selling my photos and I would like that money he made off of them."
"But it says here that you were the one that bought them."
"Well, yes...there is that..."

Nice idea though. Definitely goes to underscore the fact that a lawyer should be consulted. I just don't know.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:25 am

I'll make this short since I am not a lawyer either.

Again I say sue the site:

Sotheby’s is responsible for what they sell/auction on their site.

There has to be some similarity.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:37 am

Looks like this soves the question. It says it all on thier site:

Your submissions
Under these Terms, you may NOT place any of the following material or obtain any such material using the Service:
Any threatening, obscene, pornographic or profane material or any other material that could give rise to any civil or criminal liability under applicable law. Shutterfly recommends you use an “adult-content” warning label when pictures are being shared that include legal adult content;
Any material that could infringe rights of privacy, publicity or copyrights without the permission of the owner of these rights and the persons (or their parents or legal guardians, where applicable) who are shown in the material;
Any material sent from an anonymous or false address.
While Shutterfly is not responsible for the content of the submissions, Shutterfly reserves the right to delete, move or edit submissions that it, in its sole discretion, deems abusive, defamatory, obscene or in violation of copyright or trademark laws or otherwise unacceptable. Shutterfly may request confirmation of the copyright or trademark ownership from the submitter. Shutterfly reserves the right to suspend the shipping of an order before such confirmation is received. If Shutterfly does not receive any such confirmation or if there are continued claims of copyright or trademark infringement, Shutterfly reserves the right to share certain account information with governmental organizations or other third parties. If you dispute any copyright or trademark infringement claims, we will share with you the contact information of any party claiming any such infringement. In the event of any such dispute, Shutterfly reserves the right to suspend the display, viewing or sharing of any submissions until the issue has been resolved. You acknowledge that any submission may be removed, published, copied, modified, transmitted and displayed by Shutterfly for the purposes of delivering the offered services. In addition, you warrant that all moral rights in any uploaded materials have been waived.

Your physical or electronic sharing of your images constitutes permission for reprinting by the recipient.

Shutterfly will not be liable for the content of any submission.

Copyright notice
Shutterfly is committed to protecting photographers’ copyrights. Each image submitter is required by US law to own the right to or to obtain permission to use any image before the image is uploaded or printed at Shutterfly. If you believe that your work has been copied in a way that infringes your copyrights, please contact us at the following address and provide all relevant details.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:38 am

I forgot to highlight the bottom also:

Copyright notice
Shutterfly is committed to protecting photographers’ copyrights. Each image submitter is required by US law to own the right to or to obtain permission to use any image before the image is uploaded or printed at Shutterfly. If you believe that your work has been copied in a way that infringes your copyrights, please contact us at the following address and provide all relevant details.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:50 am

DVD Burner wrote:I'll make this short since I am not a lawyer either.

Again I say sue the site:

Sotheby’s is responsible for what they sell/auction on their site.

This is a prime example of why you need to talk to a lawyer.

The very LAST person on earth you need to take legal advice from is DVD Burner. If Sotheby's doesn't have a disclaimer waiver for items on their site, I would be utterly surprised. You can place a cease and desist order on them if you have proof of wrongdoing and an OK from a judge, and they would then be responsible for anything afterwards. But the items in question would have to individually specified. And you stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting monies from Sotheby's based on sales earlier than the injunction.

So DVD Burner's solution will only would work if:
A) Sotheby's is totally ignorant about copyright violations and have no waiver for people posting images (seriously doubt)
B) You have iron-clad, physical proof that Sotheby's knew of the copyright violation and allowed the seller to continue anyway (you would never get)

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:53 am

Question answered.

You cannot sue Sotheby's.

Good news is that it looks like they would be very cooperative in giving a court access to their records. Half your battle may be taken care of already.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:55 am

Rob the Wop wrote: This is a prime example of why you need to talk to a lawyer.

guess you did'nt read what I posted after that huh?

Too much trouble huh?

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:55 am

<plonk>

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:56 am

It helps to read everything I post in it's entirety.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:57 am

Badger wrote:<plonk>

You're an idiot anyway.

Dont bother talking to me. I already told you bitch.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:57 am

DVD Burner wrote:
Rob the Wop wrote: This is a prime example of why you need to talk to a lawyer.

guess you did'nt read what I posted after that huh?

Too much trouble huh?

Didn't see it until after I posted.

Pretty good with making assumptions.

Unfortunately that's all your good at.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:59 am

DVD Burner wrote:It helps to read everything I post in it's entirety.

Why?

With a 95% mindless drivel to 5% half-way thought out wild proclaimation ratio, its generally not worth reading any of it.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:01 am

Rob the Wop wrote:
DVD Burner wrote:
Rob the Wop wrote: This is a prime example of why you need to talk to a lawyer.

guess you did'nt read what I posted after that huh?

Too much trouble huh?

Didn't see it until after I posted.

Pretty good with making assumptions.

Unfortunately that's all your good at.

Rob the only one that made an assumption was you and you posted as such.

I'm not gonna get into it with you because I think you are fairly smart and I like you. so lets drop it.

I posted some legit info and lets leave it at that.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:34 am

DVD Burner wrote:It helps to read everything I post in it's entirety.

DVD Burner wrote:
Badger wrote:<plonk>
You're an idiot anyway.

Dont bother talking to me. I already told you bitch.

winning friends and influencing people once again, eh?

or put another way...

a check goes into the box stating "does no work and play well with others"

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:40 am

"But should be encouraged to run with scissors."

Tristan · Post by **Tristan** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:34 pm

> 1) Do you have proof that the people made money off of your work, meaning traceable receipts?

Not the person that stole the work, but Shutterfly charges for those prints.

> 2) The fact that the artwork stolen was posted on the Internet (in a public forum).

There is a notice on the original site that the work is copyrighted, and that it cannot be used without the author's permission. The copyright notice is tattooed on each original photo.

we're not gonna spend $1000 talking to a lawyer, but maybe the BMORG will do something, since they have a copyright on all the photos taken at BM and they don't want them to be sold as "stock" images.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:52 pm

Tristan wrote: 2) The fact that the artwork stolen was posted on the Internet (in a public forum).

There is a notice on the original site that the work is copyrighted, and that it cannot be used without the author's permission. The copyright notice is tattooed on each original photo.

Not trying to bag on you, just trying to point out possible issues I see if you persue a legal action. I'm wishing the guy gets sacked, but you know the adage of with respect to wishing and shitting in your hands.

The problems in respect to point #2 is one that is plagueing the courts. If you can take a picture of a public gathering, is the Internet a public forum? When you look at a picture on the Internet, your machine must make a local copy of the picture for you to see it. If you pay money at an Internet cafe to use the Internet, are you not paying money for the copied picture on the hard drive (ie. copyright infringement)? Remember that lawyers love to babble incoherently about angels on the head of a pin. There simply isn't a large enough number of legal precedences to fill the void of Cyberspace yet. What seems like a fairly straight-forward issue can be flooded with mind boggling legalesse until it's no longer recognized.

BM photos stolen and sold illegally on Shutterfly

BM photos stolen and sold illegally on Shutterfly

Second that.

Re: Second that.

Re: Second that.