The Car Thread

[southern crone]

Thank you Captain, Ygmir and Elliot. It makes me feel a bit better about her putting money in something older. This coming from someone who bought an 85 VW Vanagon, lol.

[Tin Halo]

In fact I believe the Chrysler 318 holds the record as the lowest warranty-return engine ever.

That's good to know. I see old Winnebagos from time to time, up for sale; more often than not they have the 318 and I've wondered what those were like as far as reliability, etc.

[ranger magnum]

Hey all my fellow gear heads! Ive been gone a while..... Did i miss anything?

[Jackass]

Just the usual bloody knuckles, although mine have healed nicely for the time being... I'm sure that will change soon.

The 58 is still on stands out in the weather, gotta do something about that before it degrades.

[Captain Goddammit]

Oh nothing. We're just putting a '57 Bel Air body onto a '92 Roadmsster chassis and floor pan up here.

[ranger magnum]

That's awesome capt. Please post lots of pictures!

[ygmir]

I'm thinking I may try something I've not done before:
I have a sweet 85 MBZ 300D.
one owner, it got rear ended, the left rear fender is crumpled
the bumper is ok, and the trunk looks fine.
I also have another 123 chassis, sans engine and trans.
It seems I could use my plasma cutter, and cut the good fender off the donor, then measure and mark it, cut the bad one off along the same lines, and weld them together, with my MIG?
then grind, sand, and paint?

any thoughts?

[Captain Goddammit]

That's pretty much the deal. Try as hard as you can to get it as perfectly aligned as you can. Tack it and check, it's hard (impossible!) to make it look right if it's not... right.

[Jackass]

Tricky weld to keep that panel from looking like a fun-house mirror when done, keep it cool.

[ygmir]

yeah cool is key. ergo the plasma torch/MIG. I may even try sawzall for cuts, if I can get it in there.

[Elliot]

I might reach for my angle grinder with a thin cutting wheel. Just a thought, mind you.

[ygmir]

I might reach for my angle grinder with a thin cutting wheel. Just a thought, mind you.

I'd think a grinder with cutting wheel would be about the same heat as plasma? As in transfer to sheet metal?
I may try some tests..........

[Elliot]

I'm thinking that you could cut as slowly as you like with a cutting wheel -- not let the steel become blue at all. But you should absolutely consult a good body man. I ain't it.

[ygmir]

that's sort of my idea with the sawzall. cool cut, not real chanced of heat distortion. But, if I grind the paint off the cut line, a plasma might be fast enough to not transfer enough heat to warp?
*paging good body person*

[Captain Goddammit]

We're techically amateurs, but when we build cars we cut the sheetmetal with ALL of those methods.

[Ratty]

Here kitty, kitty, kitty. Skuzzy where are you? Puss, puss, puss. Here kitty.

[^Rhino!]

Here kitty, kitty, kitty. Skuzzy where are you? Puss, puss, puss. Here kitty.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen the art car "Boo Boo Kitty" at TTID in the last few years? It's a big pink kitty with articulating arms and a tail that raises to spray shirtcokcers and hippies.....it's out of the San Diego area, and usually appears at the City of Pasadena's "Doo Dah Parade".

[Skuzzy61]

Here kitty, kitty, kitty. Skuzzy where are you? Puss, puss, puss. Here kitty.

Ah hah! Found it!

When I have joined sheet metal, I cut an overlap for the two parts I am stitching together. Then I drill holes in the top overlap panel for the purposes of tacking the parts together. Clamp and tack. Once tacked and the alignment looks good, I grind off the overlap (careful to leave the tacks) then continue tacking until I have 1" gaps between the tacks. Then go back and forth from one end to the other filling in the gaps.

The welds are short enough I never have warping issues. Then grind and fill until it looks good. Sometimes I have had to tamp the bumps a bit with a backing block, but that goes pretty fast.

It is not the shortest way to do it, but over the years it has served me well.

Just a thought.

[Skuzzy61]

I just jumped right in there didn't I?

Yep, I am a car guy. Current projects are a 65 Cobra (Lone Star Classics kit car) and a 62 Corvette, and another one planned is a full custom from the ground up.

The Cobra is in pieces as I fit a new, custom designed IRS system to the rear. Building a new engine while I have it down as well. Going to a six speed transmission.

The Corvette is getting a frame update to allow C% suspension, brakes, and drive line components as this will be the Wife's car and safety is job one for that one. I figure 400HP is enough to get her into trouble.

[Ratty]

Skuzzy, My first car was also a 54 ford. We put an exceedingly ugly dome/scoop on it. 352, 9 inch slicks, grocery getter/drags on the weekends. We not only got the ticket. They pulled us over at gunpoint on Whittier Blvd. For years all of our cars cost $25 to $50. We did have to give a guy $250 when we hit his car on the road side. That ugly two-tone buick with fake holes representing exhaust holes. My first personal car from my husband was a 53 Crown Vic. Anniversary model. What a beaut. The first car we ever financed was a 65 Mustang fastback. $1,500. Loads of fun. After that we opened a parts store and it was VWs all the way. The drag races and time/money drain soured me on cars. I drive a minivan and we own 2 old mercedes diesels. I got a new husband about 30 some years ago and left Los Angeles. Northern California isn't all about cars.

[ranger magnum]

Ive been painting cars for 15 plus years. Kandys, flake, pearls, you name it. I also do extensive fab work. Turned a 53 Buick roadmaster hard top into a factory convertible, using a rusted tag top donor car.

Anyway, the best way to great panels is to use electric shears and a flanging tool. Your going to get too much warp from a plasma cuter. Harbor freight has the shears. You can get by without the flange tool, but trying to seam weld sheetmetal isn't going to happen. Just tack around the panel.until you have it all welded.

On a side note, I couldn't find a convertible frame for my 65 SS impala tag top. So I took a hardtop frame and removed the inner frame rails, then removed the convertible frame inner rails (which are .750" wider for added strength) and welded them to.the ht frame. Problem is, my welds are much better looking than the GM OEM welds. This is because GM arc welded their frames while I am using my mig. I think I'll have to stop using shielded wire and go with flux core. That way I'll get some splatter, and it will look more original. I had to weld the sway bar reinforcement tabs on the new frame, and my welds stand out too much.

The body is getting sent to the media blasters, then I can start the minke body work. The rear seat pan is welded in place, so after the blaster I'll swipe some seam dealer, and it will look original. Im not going to undercoat the body but instead will leave it red oxide like the factory did.

[Elliot]

Naaaa.... You just tell the concourse judges that your grandpa was a welder on that line, and he was a much more skillful welder than most. And he made a hobby of jotting down the serial numbers of the frames he welded, and this is one.

[Captain Goddammit]

And I'm trying to learn to get my welds not to look like shit.
I should come buzz it together for you, problem solved!

[ygmir]

here ya go Cap'n.

[EspressoDude]

not a auto body person, but have done my share of chopping... mid engine Corvair.

clamping is definitely required, as far towards corners of the panel as possible to get the most leverage against the panels as possible, along with close to the weld areas. possible even a temporary stiffener in areas that need 'pushed' or pulled into alignment, even temporary pop riveted backer plate to hold alignment, then drill out rivets and plug weld when done.

Stitch welding is a definite. Center, then ends, then half way between those and so on. From reading about building steel boats, the short welds should be different directions, say left to right then right to left. so the shrinkage does not pull the panels in one direction, but will even out the stress/shrinkage.

Have fun (practice on scrap panels first)

[Elliot]

News from Congress (even if it took a while to reach me): Seems they have a new law that specifically permits a limited annual number replica vehicles to be built, so long as each engine came from a legal car and is installed with all its smog related parts. (This has always been possible for individual cars, at least here in California, and I am proof of it, twice -- in 1977 and in 1987. But this is a Federal law specifically allowing it and spelling out rules for it.)

The law is of course in Legalese, and it contains countless references to the various existing laws that it modifies, so it would take some time to boil it down to the bottom line.
Even so, I may have spotted an ambiguity while skimming over the new law: Does the 500-vehicles limit apply to each manufacturer, or is it the total?

This is a Federal law, so individual States can do differently. Which prevails in which situations? I don't know. This may be the most difficult issue in our Federal Constitution.
But if I remember right, California has already had a similar law for a number of years. (I knew a man who built 30 brand new 1937 Fords, roughly a decade ago, and he told me he secured 30 serial numbers before he even began building cars.)

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-con ... /2675/text

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2015 ... refer=news

[Ratty]

Thanks Elliott. That's an interesting read. It's always fun to get a peek into things you never thought about before. Like a small manufacturing plant turning out 67 VW buses or maybe 57 T-Birds. Of course it has to be 25 years old or more and you need permission as well. But thanks for the look into fringe commerce.

[Elliot]

The British call it "cottage industry". There must be at least a dozen models available, from the model A Ford to the British MGB and Lotus 7, to....
The most prolific is probably Carrol Shelby's Cobra, being made by numerous companies. The 1932 Ford roadster is up there also.
And a few years ago I did a magazine article on a guy who has built two or three Tuckers!

Now that I think about it.... I believe Federal law used to require that such cars could only be sold without an engine, thus technically a D-I-Y kit. Or at least this applied to imported cars. (Of course, such cars would often simply be rolled next door where an "unrelated" shop would install the engine after the car had been sold.)
This new law would seem to dispose of the silly "kit" requirement.

[Ratty]

I remember when there were a big bunch of kits being installed on bugs. Rolls Royce was a popular model. That was back in the 70's when we had a VW parts store.

[Captain Goddammit]

Oh yeah, the "Rolls Volks". There was a 1/16 scale model of it, I built that one when I was a kid.
There was also a '40 Ford front end kit for Bugs.
Those were both just a hood and trunk lid, a dress-up rather than a "kit car". But I think the Bug was the start of the "kit cars". The Meyers Manx dune buggy was probably the first and most famous. And the Bradley GT with gull wing doors and the Laser 917 that vaguely resembled a Porsche 917. You just took the Bug body off the chassis and put the fiberglass kit car body on.
Oh and remember those Bug pickup truck and tiny-van conversion kits? Every rare now and then I still see one rotting away somewhere.