makers vs huggers vs gifters vs drinkers

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:40 pm

It's all about Radical Mercy, bro.

jimmason · Post by **jimmason** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:17 pm

Sensei wrote:The belief that we've lost our focus is much more widespread than I had thought... Hell, it's probably more widespread than Jim thought.

Personally, I think it's more than the 'art' sliding downhill. And look at what Jim has said recently; he acknowleded that he's seeing things in a new way, and realizing that there isn't a 'correct' way to approach this camping trip that we all insist on attending.

Shit, I don't have any answers (big surprise!) but the one thing I know for certain is that these sort of discussions are giving me an optimism that I thought was gone forever. We care.

beautifully said Sensei. yes, we care again. thank you. yes, i am learning something here. i thank all of you for that. and i unfortunately think we needed to knock some furniture around before that learning was going to happen for me and many others.

i don't know where this leads to in the end, but i do know we now really care and are looking at the issues with seriousness and we are being listened to. that is the most critical shift here. something is once again at stake. we are not watching a "friends" rerun for the 7th time, as badger so wonderfully put it.

the goal of all this is to have the experiment be alive again, towards unknown ends. those ends, and the issues involved, have now eclipsed our initial volley of ideas about art in the petition. so i am a proud father. but i can't claim credit for this birth. it is a birth still in process by all of us.

push hard (and remember to breathe).

j

andi · Post by **andi** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:38 pm

Sensei, I wish I was overstating things, but from my perspective what is transpiring and Jim's active continuation of it is ONLY destructive. Let me explain myself a little bit.

2+ years ago I started up Ka Pilina, the Hawaii BM Regional group. I work 40 hours a week in my PAYING job, then I come home and spend another 10-30 hours a week (sometimes more) building the Hawaii Regional. I have worked really hard, spent a LOT of my own money, and royally pissed off my wife (oh she hates BM). Our community is growing rapidly and we have staged a series of successful events. Everyone here is very grateful for what I have done, but it was not all just my work. Participation is what made it all happen, I just coordinated things. What is happening here is just a microcosm of the Project.

What Jim and pals are doing is to undermine Participation and divide people, no matter what words they use to explain themselves. I see them doing great harm to our "unity" (if we ever had it), OK our common dream, through their words and actions. There have always been older burners who fall off each year claiming BRC is dead, sometimes in a blaze of glory, that is just the nature of Burning Man. They just seem intent on making BRC fit their personal ideal or they will do their best to harm it.

Our close Burning Man community (of participating artists) on the playa and worldwide and the art are what drives my passion. My Radical Self Expression has everything to do with the community (and that includes a LOT of art), and all this bad blood is certain to effect how me and many others Gift ourselves back to the community. You can only work with the medium you are given.

Can you understand why I might be a little upset?

andi · Post by **andi** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:15 pm

In learning how to do anything you either stumble around until you find the right way or you research how to do it then learn and eventually master. There is a standard way to do everything, meaning the most efficient plan to get you what you want, call it a standard of practice.

In the early days of Burning Man organization was casual and more free-form. Over time they were forced to get more organized and pursue standards of practice. They have done a great job by any measure, current displeasure included. They work really hard on low salaries and they can not do more than manage the event, there is much out of their control. Participants make up the rest.

If anything their pursuit of standards of practice and their efforts at organization have been critical to BRC still existing. So many people want to meddle with this structure without even looking at or factoring in the info from the Afterburn reports.

So we need to ask ourselves going forward, should the Project introduce new and untested elements (like democracy in a corporate structure) or should they continue refining their organization and pursuing standards of practice?

In my opinion we should be talking about how we can help them further refine and define their organization to bring the burner community closer together. Wouldn't that get the best result for all of us?

natthebat · Post by **natthebat** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:57 pm

"push hard (and remember to breathe)" -Jim Mason

I can feel it in my gut now. I want to quit my job. I want to contribute in any way possible. I don't want to be at peace. I want bombs in my living room. I want art.

Ya, maybe we could cross section the world and every other concieveable concept therein. Collectively I think we all know that's a joke.

It is also my belief that Andi would criticize the reading comprehension skills of anyone who didn't agree with him. I hope you wouldn't start yelling at me like that at a bar. But cheers to your passion. I can feel your love.

Badger, I like you.

Love Nat

Sensei · Post by **Sensei** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:16 pm

andi wrote:In my opinion we should be talking about how we can help them further refine and define their organization to bring the burner community closer together. Wouldn't that get the best result for all of us?

Aha! That's almost exactly how I read Jim's posts. 'Coarse, his language was a bit more radical than "refine and define", but that's what I think he's saying... Ok, it was way more radical, but still.

I just don't see the "damage" you spoke of. Let me ask you something, and if you've already covered it please excuse, but what did you think about '04? I mean the "feel" of it. Was it pretty much like the year before?

I couldn't then, nor can I now put my finger on it, but I was left wondering what happend to Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday. Those are my favorite days of the event, and yet this year it was like they didn't happen. Monday felt like 'Friday', Tuesday felt like 'Friday', etc. There just wasn't that 'laid back, get-to-know-your-neighbors community kinda thing. I know I sound like a hippie (yes, I'm a damn hippie) but I've bounced this off lots of folks and a surprising number of them said they felt the exact same way. What happened to Monday?

I confess. I don't know a goddamned thing about art. Not one thing (I'm starting to try to learn.) Yeah, I know Larry calls it an arts festival, but for me it was always about community, and I mean from day 1. I didn't know a single soul when I arrived in '00. I inadvertantly ended up next to the oh-so-gay "Our Lady of Schlongs Meat Inspectors" and guess what? Those guys not only looked out for this dull straight boy (drinking water, etc), they made sure I felt comfortable, 'included' and part of the neighborhood. They went waaaay out of their way to do this. This did something to my head that I've never really gotten over. And I've camped next to those crazy bastards every year since. They are, sorry for my hippy-ness, like family now. I couldn't not live next to them.

Yet, I feel it's starting to break down. I'm no social-mechanic and I don't know how to fix it; hell, I can't even describe the problem. It just feels "broken" and our progress doesn't seem to be progressing... It feels like it's receding. I can't help feeling that if we keep going the way we've been going, this event has maybe 5 years left before it's completely dead. If we have another year like last year, I'm through. Having said that, I think Jim's posts have definitely highlighted at least one aspect of the problem. For that, I am very, very grateful.

Hell, he got you to post didn't he? I had never heard of you before Jim got you so riled that you felt you HAD to reply. I'm grateful for that, too. Now I know who our contact in Hawaii is. See? It's already working.

natthebat · Post by **natthebat** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:41 pm

I always try to have something well thought out to say, ya all know this. but I just wanted you to know that I feel all warm and fuzzy. Love you Andi!

MoisturePup · Post by **MoisturePup** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:08 am

natthebat wrote: It is also my belief that Andi would criticize the reading comprehension skills of anyone who didn't agree with him. I hope you wouldn't start yelling at me like that at a bar. But cheers to your passion. I can feel your love.

Love Nat

When did Rovian politics become a daily aspect of "getting things done" within Burning Man? Rule #1 of Rovian politics: Accuse those who disagree with you of the very thing you are most guilty of.

Here we have Nat claiming that Andi attacks anybody who disagrees with him, when in fact it is the Jim Mason et al. that goes on the attack when ever somebody suggest something contrary to their opinion.

I quote Chicken when he signed a parody of the Dream petition, "I will kill you." That's an attack. Stating an opposing view point is not.

MoisturePup · Post by **MoisturePup** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:13 am

Sensei wrote:
andi wrote:In my opinion we should be talking about how we can help them further refine and define their organization to bring the burner community closer together. Wouldn't that get the best result for all of us?
Aha! That's almost exactly how I read Jim's posts. 'Coarse, his language was a bit more radical than "refine and define", but that's what I think he's saying... Ok, it was way more radical, but still.

I just don't see the "damage" you spoke of. Let me ask you something, and if you've already covered it please excuse, but what did you think about '04? I mean the "feel" of it. Was it pretty much like the year before?

You know, I'd like to point out that there were over 40 art projects that went AWOL because the weather conditions didn't permit the artist to set them up on the playa where they had been placed. We had a dusty/windy year this year, especially early on in the week. Many of the artists opted to just set them up in their camp instead. That alone could explain much of the "lack of art" on the playa. Another issue was the theme... it wasn't very open to interpretation. My understanding is that this years theme is much more broad based (more along the lines of "Beyond Belief" which can be read into so many ways.)

jimmason · Post by **jimmason** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:37 am

You know, I'd like to point out that there were over 40 art projects that went AWOL because the weather conditions didn't permit the artist to set them up on the playa where they had been placed. We had a dusty/windy year this year, especially early on in the week. Many of the artists opted to just set them up in their camp instead. That alone could explain much of the "lack of art" on the playa.

interesting theory. but remember 2000? wind and rain way way worse than anything this year and the art happened nonetheless (except one of my two projects that year, i will admit). 2000 was one of the best years for art on the playa ever, despite terrible terrible horribly nasty weather. so i dont think we can put too much weigh into the "weather" explanation for the poor showing this year.

j

ps- and come on robert, you understood chicken's "i will kill you" response to your parody petition as comedy at the time. i joined your tribe for it and sent you a letter of congratulations for a prank well played. i even offered to join in fundraisers around the idea to help fund art towards the playa. and i was so entertained with your comedy of those days not too far past that i sincerely said i hope we can collaborate on something someday.

and as you are about to find out, that moment might have just arrived . . .

MoisturePup · Post by **MoisturePup** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:23 am

jimmason wrote:
You know, I'd like to point out that there were over 40 art projects that went AWOL because the weather conditions didn't permit the artist to set them up on the playa where they had been placed. We had a dusty/windy year this year, especially early on in the week. Many of the artists opted to just set them up in their camp instead. That alone could explain much of the "lack of art" on the playa.

interesting theory. but remember 2000? wind and rain way way worse than anything this year and the art happened nonetheless (except one of my two projects that year, i will admit). 2000 was one of the best years for art on the playa ever, despite terrible terrible horribly nasty weather. so i dont think we can put too much weigh into the "weather" explanation for the poor showing this year.

j

ps- and come on robert, you understood chicken's "i will kill you" response to your parody petition as comedy at the time. i joined your tribe for it and sent you a letter of congratulations for a prank well played. i even offered to join in fundraisers around the idea to help fund art towards the playa. and i was so entertained with your comedy of those days not too far past that i sincerely said i hope we can collaborate on something someday.

and as you are about to find out, that moment might have just arrived . . .

Hey Jim,

You can be benevolant dictator of my Artopia anytime. :-)

I hope you don't see my oposition to the volume of your postings as oposition to you, or your ideas. I do have to admit that the ferociousness of your approach is a bit off putting.

Well, I wasn't exactly, completely, 100% sure that Chicken did not in fact want to kill me. I mean, I don't know the guy... I suspected, and hoped, it was a joke and chose to see it as such.

Cheers,
Rob

Cardinal · Post by **Cardinal** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:33 am

The petition drive has morphed into something very interesting.

http://www.borg2.org/

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:53 am

re: http://www.borg2.org/

It's awesome... it's the best borg2.org ever... borg2.org changed my life...

It's like having that cute little dog you took to the pound show up on your doorstep covered in skunk odor and sheep entrails...

MoisturePup · Post by **MoisturePup** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:57 am

Cardinal wrote:The petition drive has morphed into something very interesting.

http://www.borg2.org/

Maybe you guys could throw an adjoining event... start a second city make the playa into a figure 8 city and have a seperate admission price for BRC2. It'd be like the disneyworld model, seperate prices depending on which part of the theme park you plan to enter.

troutfly · Post by **troutfly** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:18 pm

hey folks, take a deep breath and calm down. Yes people go to BRC to do different things and yes some folks like fire more than glow and fast and not slow. But we all go to burning man for one reason-because it fucking rocks and we've found it to be a necesary part of our lives. It really doesn't matter what direction any of us want this event to travel, because it's not up to any of us. Burning man is a living breathing masterpiece that is going to evolve in an uncontrolable manner. in case you haven't noticed it's something unharnessable by words or specific direction. It should remain unharnessable. The best thing that any of us can do to keep the spirit alive is to contribute as much as possible our selves and hope that our own enourmous sense of ethusiasm carries on to those in need of motivation. There will always be those of us who participate until we bleed out our ears and there will also be those who wander around in khaki's and a camera. it's derfinately not cool to divide participants into groups of drinkers and makers and whatever else. Those who complain that burning man is losing something have probably in a sense lost something themselves. Personnaly I've never had a problem ditching the rave scene when often necessary and have never had a problem involving myself in unbelievable situations of heightned participation levels resulting in feelings of lifely bliss. if you find that you can't stop whining that burning man is changing for the worse, than chances are you're part of the problem, not the solution.
just keep on pushing the envelope and be the type of burner that mkes others feel like they need to contribute. be the ball

Troutfly

natthebat · Post by **natthebat** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:53 pm

Push hard and remember to breathe

andi · Post by **andi** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:18 am

In 2004 there seemed like there were more people dressed the part but they were just buzzing around from big event to big event. I encountered a lot of people like that, and the numbers definitely seemed up from previous years. I encountered a fair amount of people who would demand things from our camp and get indignant if we didn't do what they wanted, and no they weren't acting. Last year (2003) my friend Jennie started using the term "take economy", and it seemed like there were more people doing that in 2004.

The art didn't blow me away, but to be honest, after 1997 Burning Man lost that newbie shine for me, and not much knocks my socks off anymore. I saw a lot of art I was impressed by and both me and my brother spent a lot of time mentally taking apart different pieces trying to figure out how they did it, maybe get a good idea from it. But yeah 2004 did seem a little off to me in terms of art.

I know exactly what you mean Sensei, there seems to me that there has been a decline in community. I have heard about and seen more openly hostile acts than I have ever seen on the playa before. It seemed like people were more closed and reserved, maybe it is a natural byproduct of a larger population.

I don't think 2004 was a bad year, it was the best year in 2-3 years for me. I do think there is a problem with this sense of entitlement, like people demanding drinks at my camp, or burners who feel Burning Man owes them something. Art is a big part of BRC but it alone can't solve all the problems. The openness and unity of the community has been slowly withering (in my opinion). This petition did more damage with all the rancor surrounding it.

I have to say that I am impressed at Chicken and Jim's Borg2 project, I hope it lives up to their dreams and I hope that it brings burners together. I hope and trust that many more burners will take up their challenge.

natthebat · Post by **natthebat** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:31 am

Fucking job, keeping me from my work.

Yesterday we were trying to do a dress rehesal for the Boulder parade of lights. Maybe 30 people. Fire and drums on the empty, cold streets of Denver. Children and laughing and some organization. I'm not good enough to spin in public so I'm on safety. (Our shirts say SAFTEY; safety and fire type emegrencys yo. For the record I wasn't responsible for the bad spelling. We really do take our job seriously, I'm not very good at it but I try.)

Someone called the cops (imagine that) Someone apparently saw gang members lighting fires. The cops drove up and the leader (Maquette) went and spoke to them. I simled and waved behide her. The cops laughed at us and said we didn't look like gang members. They drove off.

My point; people see things the way they're capable of seeing things. Someone there lives in so much fear that they only saw fire. They were blind to the children and the laughing and the organization. They only saw fire. My heart crys for them and their innability to see the big picture. Luckly the cops, being educated in objectve assesment of situations, could see that we were not too harmful.

In my newly appointed job as ambasidor for the devil, I carefully mentioned the name Jim Mason. A very powerful leader woman said, "fuck Jim Mason!" No more was said at that time. I took her passion as a complement. Later we left our relationship with an agreement to talk more and a hug. We don't know eachother very well and we dissagree passionately but we are still friends. I had the opportunity to present the situation at hand to two other people at a different time, who in my excellent delivery, saw fire but liked it.

2005 is going to fucking rock! I can't wait.

All my love, Natalie

Chicken John · Post by **Chicken John** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:40 am

moisturepup wrote "I quote Chicken when he signed a parody of the Dream petition, "I will kill you." That's an attack. Stating an opposing view point is not."

I'll kill you for not being able to recognize a joke. Then, I'll kill you again.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:29 pm

Jim, you are a god damned muther fucking asshole

oh, wait, I was just being absurd passive aggressive it's all good. You know, just making a point, didn't mean it. Really, it was wrong.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:37 pm

Yes, Nat, seeing the big picture is important.

[soapbox/pulpit]

It's also important to be able to cast a critical eye on every big picture...
not all happy gatherings are good, just as not all fire is bad. Change for the sake of change does not have an assigned value. I'm not saying that this is what Jim and Chicken are doing, but i detect a note of it in my reading of your additude.

People may continue to disagree with you. I hope you'll argue passionately, listen intently, and then, should they still disagree with you, respect that they have a different view point.
[/soapbox/pulpit]

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:41 pm

jimmason wrote:
You know, I'd like to point out that there were over 40 art projects that went AWOL because the weather conditions didn't permit the artist to set them up on the playa where they had been placed. We had a dusty/windy year this year, especially early on in the week. Many of the artists opted to just set them up in their camp instead. That alone could explain much of the "lack of art" on the playa.

interesting theory. but remember 2000? wind and rain way way worse than anything this year and the art happened nonetheless (except one of my two projects that year, i will admit). 2000 was one of the best years for art on the playa ever, despite terrible terrible horribly nasty weather. so i dont think we can put too much weigh into the "weather" explanation for the poor showing this year.

I don't know. I was shocked to hear about people leaving BRC, or not finishing their art, because of some relatively mild weather. Heck my campmates dome fell down 3 times, and frustrating as it was, every time we put it back up, reinfroced it, etc more people joined in to help, bringing extra materials, conferring on the stability, ending with about 10 of us double-zip-tying each and every joint by hand, grumpy as hell but still cracking jokes in the wind.

And damn, you should've been there during setup week! Thunderstorms! Real rain! REALLY hard wind for a few days straight. We had to close the streets of BRC to trucks for a half a day to let the mud dry and practically slept in our goggles. But we kept working, because we didn't want to let anybody down

And i had a relativelt easy setup job in the Cafe. Our DPW brethren, as always, faced the worst of the conditions doing the physically hardest jobs.

Fighting the elements together has been a significant part of my experience, and my community-building. I can see blowing off your art if you are in actual physical danger or having a complete mental breakdown, but really, no other reason. I wish we could hear from those artists to fund out why they bailed.

It worries me that folks who started coming in the last few years experienced such great weather that they may be thin-skinned enough to pack up at this rather minor challenge. It speaks more the lack of investment in the culture of the city, the lack of obligation to each other to produce and lack of personal drive to finish no matter what. Perhaps it's just a bit of playa Darwinism, and should be appreciated instead.

natthebat · Post by **natthebat** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:40 pm

Rian Jackson said, "Change for the sake does not have an assiged value."

My understanding is that, in your reading of my attitude, I wish for change only for the sake of change. It is my pleasure to tell you now that I do see value in this change. As my well spoken friend Technopatra has pointed out elsewhere, I don't know shit about what we are changing. I have also stated elsewhere that I do value other points of view. But the fact is, arguing is my favorite sport. I like to win and sometimes I do. Sometimes I get my ass kicked with facts that I do not have. These facts are evidence of my subjective and emotional thoughts. I accept this because what I love more then the thrill of winning an argument, is finding the truth.

The truth is always open to interpretation, yet there's a point we reach called education. The word educate comes from a latin root wich also stems the word educe. To bring out, to draw forth.

Our ancient teachers saw the spark when a human finally "gets it" or is educated. Like the information was there all along. When we argue there's fire. If we can dissagree for the sake of "truth," then we are one step closer to human potential. What ever that may be. We don't have time to waste. That is our job here. To be the best that we can be. We must argue and take the risk that someone will tell us we're wrong and have the facts to back it up. Rather than choosing to stay blind. Seeing the big picture, or the truth, requires emotion and fact. Heart and mind.

So Rian Jackson, when you say that, "Change for the sake of change has no assigned value" I must ask you to look at the subjectiveness of assigning value to chgange. Whos job is it to assign value to change?

I am very emotional because I can feel it. Feelings are tools that help us navigate for the sake of our evolution/revolution. Does it feel right or does it feel wrong? This change feels right to me. How powerful is our fear that we must assign value to change or render any change valueless? What are we afraid of? Death. If we change it we could die if we don't change it we could die. We are all going to fucking die some day. That is fact.

But how will we live?

We can participate in concious change or we can turn our heads in fear and have no say in the reality we create. I want a say in my reality. I want to be the only one who makes the rules that I live by. You are free to live by your rules. I know better then to try takeing that from anyone.

Fight on!

Nat

jimmason · Post by **jimmason** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:13 am

from the "conservative vs. progressive" discussion on tribe:

"And while we are at it, the accompanying "10 guiding principles": regionals.burningman.com/netwo...rinciples.html "

wow. actually, i had never noticed this before, but in larry's 10 principles, art / creative work does not even rise to a level of importance requiring one of the numbered points to address it. the word "art" (or its equivalents) is only uttered once during the 400 words of the document, and only in passing in a list about possible types of communal action.

and people wonder why so many of us find this experiment to be propagating in a manner betraying of its core principles and activities. . .

j

jimmason · Post by **jimmason** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:44 am

jimmason wrote:from the "conservative vs. progressive" discussion on tribe:

"And while we are at it, the accompanying "10 guiding principles": regionals.burningman.com/netwo...rinciples.html " propagating in a manner betraying of its core principles and activities. . .

14 theses that seem about right to us.

http://www.borg2.org/14Theses.html

for a contrasting set of principles, principles founded in collaborative art making towards community, you might want to look at the full set of theses we wrote in the beginning, eventually only using 4 of them. (note: the thesis skip over the obvious points of "radical self-expression" and "leave no trace" and all that that we are all quite clear on by this point. the 14 theses were a combination of restating core principles as well as diagnosis and solutions to the current malaise.

it is a long document, as usual. actually, even longer than usual (but easily skimmable, as there are nice numbers organizing it.

i'm sure you will tell me what you think about it. . . ;-)

j

http://www.borg2.org/14Theses.html

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:52 am

We are all going to fucking die some day.

no need to remind me of this, i assure you.

i wasn't saying there can't be value in this change. it's just a cautionary statement.

are you familiar with pomo?

halas.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:21 pm

I wish we could hear from those artists to fund out why they bailed.

We bailed at about 65% completion because there was a lack of will between the 4 of us to finish. It was heartbreaking to me but then again I was the one with the most emotional investment and had the most to gain. I was there on the day that the playa was closed. We created far away camp out by the gate road and had a grand old time instead. We had worked and worked and worked but by Wednesday the weather had us in check. My screens were fouled, the projcetors were hating it and we blew a channel in the P.A.. At that point my campmates wanted to get out of camp for the first time in days and party. Can't blame 'em. Come Thursday we just left camp on auto pilot. Me, I did a lot of sulking and drinking. Then I too just went out and danced with abandon.

I learned that perfectionism on the playa is not rewarded. Now I have a 'crisis of venue' as my honey puts it.

oh, my neighbors at clan destino also seemed to bail before completion. Sad. I saw their concept sketches and was really looking forward to seeing that beautiful structure, one of the most gorgeous on the playa and unfunded to boot.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:35 pm

I learned that perfectionism on the playa is not rewarded.

Sounds like you should adopt Crusty the Clown's outlook on things: "Its Not Just Good, Its Good Enough."

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:33 pm

stuart wrote:Come Thursday we just left camp on auto pilot. Me, I did a lot of sulking and drinking. Then I too just went out and danced with abandon.

That explains why there was no one there when I showed up thursday to see your camp (after 5 days of hell getting to BRC from Boise). Still, you had it set-up (based on the concept photos you posted). Too bad - I had a complete sound system / dual CD w/ groove box (and there was also a screen & digital projector that was not used in our camp). Since my mutant vehicle crapped out in Nixon, I would have jumped at the chance to help you out (and so would 3-4 of my campmates who had nothing to do...) I wish I would have looked a bit harder....

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:41 pm

MoisturePup wrote:Maybe you guys could throw an adjoining event... start a second city make the playa into a figure 8 city and have a seperate admission price for BRC2. It'd be like the disneyworld model, seperate prices depending on which part of the theme park you plan to enter.

Or maybe no amount of money can get you in - you must PROVE your participation by providing art for others to enjoy (kinda like thesis #6 of the BMorg2).

makers vs huggers vs gifters vs drinkers

push hard (and remember to breathe)

remember 2000?

Re: remember 2000?

Re: remember 2000?

larry's 10 guiding principles . . .

14 theses that seem about right to us.