Monkey hut frame help

[hooker]

ZigZag, I'm thrilled that you are doing this now. I hope to copy your work in a month or two. I also have a Kodiak tent that I want to enclose in shade. I'm also hoping to use a monkey hut. Are you going to use attic foil as a cover? Are you planning to build the cones on the end to close it up? I tried setting up my tent with one of the ribs over it to check out the height. I think a 25 ft rib will be plenty. I built my rib using two eight foot sections of 1.25 inch PVC and a 9 ft 1 inch section. The two side sections are stiffer, and so you end up with a taller shade. The 1 inch section just slides in the other two and I use duct tape to stop it. So you have 10 ft. 1 inch pipe that fits 6 inches into the larger pipes on each end. I've built smaller huts like this for years on the playa. The tape works great. I also have a spine along the peak. I just build a long spine out of 1 inch PVC and zip tie it in place on the underside of the ribs. I've never had a failure, though my ribs were only 20 feet in the past. I would avoid T joints. They are bound to fail. To join 1 inch sections, just slide a one foot section of 1.25 inch PVC over them. Use tape to hold them and you're all set. Running rope from rib to rib is also a good way to strengthen things.
I've used a grey tarp on my hut in the past and found it provides shade, but get pretty warm. The tarp itself heats up and then heats the interior. This is the main reason I'm not building shade out of EMT and tarps. It would probably be stronger, but I think the attic foil will keep things much cooler. And I always enjoy setting up the monkey hut. It's just a great design.
Have you started working with the attic foil? I'm curious how hard it is to work with. I saw that Captivator had actually sewn a zipper in one end. I'm hoping to copy his design with the "cones" on each end to close things up.
Jason

[ZigZag]

Hooker: Thanks for the feedback. A 25 ft rib length with a 15 foot base is perfect for the height of a Kodiak Tent, there is easily a good 18 inches over the top of the tent for flow through. The rib structure you describe with the stiffer ones on the site is a good idea I wasn't sure I'd be able to bend those into the arc so I went with the 1 inch. I wouldn't narrow the base much less than 15 feet though or the tent fit from side to side is going to be tight. I've already invested in so much PVC I am probably going to stick with the 1" ribs I have but I am going to extend the 1.25" connectors to 18 inches.

For the spine though I am going to use straight run of 28 feet of 1.25" . Zip ties is a great idea, I am not a fan of duct tape, it dries out and make a gummy mess of things in the heat. I believe you are right about the T and X connectors in my V1 Design, I really hated working with them and it feels like they are introducing multiple points of failure into the system. In Version 2, I will use 1.25" for the spine thinking that the spine should be stronger than the ribs. Question for you: You mentioned running a rope from rib to rib: How do you tie it: Do you just do a clove hitch on each rib? That's alot of knotting. Do you just tie it at the end ribs?

I have thought about the cones, or at least one of them, though I admit I am a bit intimidated by them. First I am not sure how to lay them out. I got a Sketch Up file from Capinator but it doesn't make sense to me in terms of how to draw the arcs.. Second I am afraid if I do only one end, then I have a sail where the wind enters the open end actually, it would be more like a spinnaker than a sail. Third I don't know much about sewing and putting in a zipper seems pretty hard. (Hey, I am a first timer at this!!). His is fully enclosed with wither two cones or a door panel on the other end. Then its not so much of a sail but a solid structure. I imagine I will hold that out for next year's upgrade and go with an open ended hut this year.

I have the attic foil sitting in my porch and I plan to start assembling the canopy in the next week or so. I pulled it out and looked at it and its really tough stuff, so much lighter weight than those heavy tarps that's for sure I cannot tear it by hand though its recommended you tape the edges too. This is helpful for the grommet strength as well. Since I am camping solo, I am glad for a reduced weight factor. I have flown big tarps before for rain protection on camping trips and my feeling is this attic foil will be far superior to handle. I got the perforated kind that actually lets moisture through but does not let water through. Weird but true.

One other trick I did in my ribs was to thread a length of paracord through the rib. It is tied to the rebar at each end, inside the rib, using an icicle hitch. There is a 1/2" hole in the rib I use to fish the line out and pull it down tight. so the rib is actually anchored to the rebar. I did this for every other rib. It seems to really strengthen the structure. I picked that one up from an e-playan named Burningshady. He really takes that internal tiedown system to the max and threads the entire structure including the spine, you might be interested in looking at that. Here is the PDF he wrote on it. https://burningshady.files.wordpress.co ... 8/tmh6.pdf

So I am going to build version two this weekend using much of the great advice I've heard on this and other threads. These things are really cool!

[Roundabout]

I have the attic foil sitting in my porch and I plan to start assembling the canopy in the next week or so. I got the perforated kind that actually lets moisture through but does not let water through. Weird but true.

On the roll that I got, the perforations are perfectly square to the edges of the roll. They can, therefore, be used as cutting guides to keep your cuts square to the edge.

[ZigZag]

On the roll that I got, the perforations are perfectly square to the edges of the roll. They can, therefore, be used as cutting guides to keep your cuts square to the edge.

Cool, I didn;t think about that.

Question for you: When you put the panels together, did you butt seam them (edge to edge) before taping or did you over lap them? I was thinking a two inch overlap. Thoughts on that?

[BBadger]

I never was a real big fan of closing off the ends. The airflow through the MH is one of the best parts. Plus, you have an extra long MH, so you may not need any closed off ends do remain shaded the whole time anyway.

[Roundabout]

Question for you: When you put the panels together, did you butt seam them (edge to edge) before taping or did you over lap them? I was thinking a two inch overlap. Thoughts on that?

I overlap and interlock by folding back each adjoining edge into a channel and then putting the channels inside each other. One inch is enough. Because of the aluminum, the material folds very nicely.

And actually I take it two steps further (another example of overkill) by putting a one inch polypropylene strap into the folded channel and then double cross stitch the whole seam on my sewing machine. The seam is now stronger than the material itself.

[ZigZag]

Monkey hut framework version 2.

I took lots of e-playan's advice:

• Got rid of the X's and T's
• Made the spine one long piece of 1 1/4
• Connected the spine using bungee balls
• Lengthened the rib connectors
• Changed the rib ropes from paracord to 3/8" Nylon
• Tied clove hitches on each rib

I also got 12" screw stakes for the rib ropes and beefed up the ratchet straps.

It all seems a lot more solid now even without the canopy yet. The ribs got a little distorted but who cares. I am about to call this done and move on to the canopy.

[Roundabout]

Zigzag,
Those do not look like actual clove hitches to me, but as long as you have constant tension on them from the ratchet straps, they should be fine, maybe even better because they look more easily adjustable than a clove hitch. Congratulations on completing your design!

[EGAZ]

Lookin' good ZIgZag!

[BBadger]

Yeah, that's looking pretty good, and a lot sturdier. The nice thing with no special connectors is that all you need are some extra 1 1/4" pipes if anything ever breaks, which probably won't happen anyway.

[ZigZag]

Thank you everybody. It is a lot sturdier, thanks to all your input.

Rave on.

[hooker]

The magic number is 24. That's how long your ribs should be on your monkey hut to enclose a 10x10 Kodiak tent. I'm attaching a group of photos to show the tent under a 26 ft rib, a 25 ft rib and a 24 foot rib. I've set the stakes for the ribs 4 feet from the tent door and one foot from the rear of the tent. So the spread is 15 feet. I used 2 1.25 inch pipes, and one 1inch pipe between them. I cut the 1.25 inch pipes down from 9 feet to 8.5 and then to 8 feet. The 1 inch pipe is ten feet long with a bunch of duct tape wrapped around it one foot from each end to act as a stop. So the 1 inch pipe is inserted one foot into each 1.25 inch pipe.

While it's nice to have extra headroom in your shade, the taller your shade, the more likely the wind will knock it over. A smaller structure is also a good bit more rigid. I originally thought I needed a 25 foot rib, but I feel comfortable that 24 feet will work just fine. In the worst case you will have to move the tent within the monkey hut to keep it from bumping the side. But I think the layout I tried will work just fine and give you plenty of room by the tent door.

I've set up a 20 ft ribbed monkey hut many times and it was always rock solid. I think 24 will work fine. My only question at this point
is whether I can use a 5 foot spread between ribs, or if I need to space the ribs at only 3 feet. I also need to work out how to attach the attic foil to the ribs on either end. I'm hoping I can add grommets, but I'm not sure how well those will hold in the attic foil. I've given up on enclosing the ends. I think it's just too much fabricating for me. I'm hoping 5 feet of overhand on each end will keep things shaded and cool in the tent. But maybe I'd be better off building the cones on the ends to close them off. I'm just not sure how tricky it will be to build cones out of attic foil and how hard it will be to add a zipper.
JR

[ZigZag]

Some good testing going on here! I read somewhere you need at least a foot clearance between the tent and the hut to accommodate adequate ventilation and hut movement in strong winds. 25 feet seems to work. i want to be able to get around my tent easily. We should compare notes after the burn and see how that works out for both of us!

I see that because you are using 1.25" for the side pieces and 1" for the middle piece, you are getting more arc at the top than in the sides giving it a kind of egg shape

I looked at the spacing too. 3 feet seemed too close and adds a whole lot of extra pipes to carry around and set up though I imagine it would be stronger. 5 feet will work but seemed too flimsy so I just compromised on 4. Seemed a reasonable mid point.

I asked Capinator specifically about the grommets and he said the grabber kind worked really well and are easy to put on. He also said to take a piece of that 6" tape to the edges so that half is on on one side and half on the other. That will make the tarp nearly indestructible. I am going to put grommets in every 12 inches.

On the Ends of the hut I am going to attach them to the PVC with bungee balls. On the ground side I am going to drive a 12" nail stake with a washer. I think that will be plenty strong. I have not built the canopy yet; still looking for a place and some help.

I agree about the cone ends. Those are not on my radar for this year, I am going for open ends so the whole thing is not a sail. I will have my van pulled up against the back end so air can flow through but there is some wind break and I will have access to my stuff in the van.

Thanks for the post and the pix!

[Jackass]

I'd set up so that the monkey hut T's into the side van doors, or back the van in with the rear doors opening into the hut. When there's no little dirt in the air you can open the van and let the breeze on through

[kgk]

This is awesome! Thank you for the detailed description here.

I'm building a monkey hut that is very similar, and I'm wondering what kind of rope you used, specifically.

Here's what I'm looking at for the top lines and the rope that is used inside the ribs:


Looking at the 3/8" rope. Does it matter that much what kind of rope I use here? Should I use a different kind of rope for the guy lines at each end? I'm definitely avoiding paracord because it stretches and doesn't return to it's original length, so I'd have to keep tightening it over the week.

[kgk]

Not sure if the URL worked in my previous post. Here's the rope I'm looking at:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012EB10L0/

[ZigZag]

I used a 3/8" nylon utility rope. The one I am using is twisted (like me), the one you are showing is braided which is probably a little better.

Those guy lines help keep the ribs spaced without slipping and provide end-to end anchoring. I use ratchet straps to connect the rope to the ground anchors. For ground anchors on those lines I am using 12 inch earth anchors which will probably have better anchoring that just rebar. The caution is not to ratchet them down too tight, it only serves to pull the arc of the front rib down

Like I wrote about above, the ribs are also internally anchored to the rebar that the ribs are sitting on via a nylon line that goes from end to end.

Add in that the canopy is anchored with candy canes (bent rebar) every 18 inches and that baby is firmly pinned down yet easily flexes in the wind.

Liker I said, its not playa tested yet but it has past muster with the ePlayan engineering mind collective.

[ZigZag]

FWIW, here is the finished product