Lag screws vs everything else...

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.
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lucky420
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by lucky420 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:16 am

can you just use a sledge hammer to drive them in?
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:20 am

The 1/2" HF impact wrench is a huge, heavy beast and even when driving in some 14" 3/8" lags, it can trip out a 2000W generator if you have it in eco mode. It definitely works during the last few inches to slam the lag screw down into the playa. I ran about 40 lag screws last year, I wouldn't have expected a cordless impact driver or a 1/4" driver to do the job.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:22 am

lucky420 wrote:can you just use a sledge hammer to drive them in?
If you're using a sledgehammer that's opposite the whole point of this thread, which is the luxury of using power tools to anchor your stuff without pounding rebar. The lag screws are not optimal for sledge pounding, go back to rebar or smooth stakes.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by lucky420 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:25 am

maladroit wrote:
lucky420 wrote:can you just use a sledge hammer to drive them in?
If you're using a sledgehammer that's opposite the whole point of this thread, which is the luxury of using power tools to anchor your stuff without pounding rebar. The lag screws are not optimal for sledge pounding, go back to rebar or smooth stakes.

Thank you maladroit, I guess i'll just keep pounding away...
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by DoctorIknow » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:50 pm

sadie wrote:...so maybe I won't twist my wrist during set up...
The Harbor Freight 1/2inch you are thinking of does require wrists that won't be sensitive to it's incredible power. Not all, but some of the lag screws and the operators alignment with the socket will make the tool a bear to hold on to. (I have carpel tunnel syndrome, so I know about wrist problems.)

All the impacts happening every second have a tendency for the tool to waver/wobble. It is not like you have a drill with a long bit and are making a hole in the playa.

I found the swiveling impact sockets can help a lot, but practice is needed to minimize moments where the tool wants to jump out of ones hands, which is when the off kilter torque will go straight to the wrists.

If it appears the tool is hurting your wrists, look around for someone pounding rebar and ask if they want to try out lag screws with the impact driver. They will want to do all your lag screws....in fact, strangers will come up to you asking if they can try it out.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by krly » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:31 pm

I hate to reveal how dumb I actually am....but......how the heck does one start a new topic in the forums ?
Thanks.....krly

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Just_Joe » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:49 pm

krly wrote:I hate to reveal how dumb I actually am....but......how the heck does one start a new topic in the forums ?
Thanks.....krly
"New Topic" button.
It's not available from within a "topic/thread", like where you are now.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by lucky420 » Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:47 pm

Yes a yurt needs 6.

Yurt!
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Sat Apr 23, 2016 5:23 pm

It bothers me when my "Gifted" ideas get commodified!!! :cry:
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by BBadger » Sat Apr 23, 2016 5:49 pm

DoctorIknow wrote:If it appears the tool is hurting your wrists, look around for someone pounding rebar and ask if they want to try out lag screws with the impact driver. They will want to do all your lag screws....in fact, strangers will come up to you asking if they can try it out.
Yeah, this is exactly what happened the first time I brought those lag bolts and and impact driver. The friends who were setting up a carport next to mine saw how easy mine was going in and after offering them to use some of the 50x I brought, they wanted to do them all because it was just so fun and effortless.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Papa Bear » Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:25 pm

BBadger wrote:they wanted to do them all because it was just so fun and effortless.
I had that experience during strike in 2014. I think I'd used 20 of the 18" variety to stake down my 16' diameter yurt (one of the many good things about lag bolts - they make overkill easier too).

During strike, a friend who is a longtime member of DPW (and who has hammered in and pulled out far more than his fair share of rebar, t-stakes, and other anchors) happened to be around and wandered over to see just how the yurt was put together.

He'd heard of using lag screws as anchors, but hadn't actually had any experience with them, so when I pulled out my impact wrench to start pulling them he asked if he could try one. He wound up gleefully pulling every last one of them. Every time I'd think his grin couldn't get any bigger, he'd spin one more out and prove me wrong.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Canoe » Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:17 pm

Siffer wrote:Found a 6-pk of these 14" solid steel lag screws /w double link chain. A Hexayurt needs 6 correct?
amazon.com/Bolts-chains-anchoring-tents-structures/**/**********/
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Damienart » Wed May 11, 2016 4:56 pm

Any recommendations on 3/8" vs 1/2" dia? The latter should have much higher pullout strength, but how hard is it to screw into the playa? Anyone tried 18"?
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by DoctorIknow » Wed May 11, 2016 5:39 pm

I suppose if your impact tool is weak, it might make a difference....such as using a Ryobi hammer drill with a 9.6 volt battery.

Other than that, the only difference I can tell when I do both sizes is one needs a different impact socket and the chain links (chain you will be cutting up) are more expensive per piece for the 18's.

I use 14's for interior tent pegs and easy stuff that 12" nails that have always done OK and 18's for the four corners and all the serious stuff.

Although I've never had a problem with rebar other than having wrist problems from swinging a 3lb or 5lb hammer what seemed like 1000 times per year, last years pre-gate opening winds MAY have changed that perception that rebar was strong enough for my structures...I was very happy to have 18's holding down the 12x20 covered on 5 sides with tarps and shadecloth structure which was under more stress than I'd ever seen. Some neighbors had rebar fail during that near alpha condition. Horrible to watch as damage could have far exceeded loss of camp infrastructure.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Wed May 11, 2016 9:57 pm

I like the 3/8" cause they fit through an average grommet. 8)
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by BBadger » Thu May 12, 2016 12:19 am

It never seemed like the 14" lag screws would ever come out and with all the extras in the carton I could've just drilled another down.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Thu May 12, 2016 8:35 am

BBadger wrote:It never seemed like the 14" lag screws would ever come out and with all the extras in the carton I could've just drilled another down.
Right, I don't think you'd want to push the system so far that a 14" wouldn't work and an 18" would. There's not enough difference. You'd go from 14" to 24" or a legit 36" anchor. With the 14's you could either tie them individually to your tiedown for redundancy,, or have a loop of the same rope passing through the chain links on both of them to divide the load.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by mattcamp » Thu May 12, 2016 8:44 am

I've posted this before but we used a combination of 18's and 24's last year for the main windward-side guy lines on our tower.

(apologies for potato quality pic, seems it was the only one we got)
Image

We actually started with just a single 24" on each line but got a bit nervous when the wind came up and the ratchet straps started vibrating (due to insufficient twists) so we added a pair of 18's to each line on about 4' of chain each... it wasn't really the best way to do it but we didn't have any flat plates handy and didn't want to remove the existing 24" screw.

One of the 24's had already vibrated itself out about 2" when we did this (Friday afternoon) but once we screwed it back in and added the 18's it felt totally bulletproof even in the highest winds (and we also sorted out the vibration problem using additional orange ratchet straps)

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by DoctorIknow » Thu May 12, 2016 10:51 am

From advice maybe in this long thread, I bought a big spool of mule tape, and replaced original nylon strap in ratchet hardware.

I also use trucker hitches with it. (on it?)

Mule tape is probably stronger than some ratchet hardware as it has very high test loads (1" wide = 6000lb), but another great thing is that it FEELS GOOD in the hands.

I found the vibrating problem to be less, but still one must twist...

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by EGAZ » Thu May 12, 2016 11:55 am

If I may, how much twist (or turns) does one add to the ratchet straps. For a flat roof EMT frame for example, 8-9' tall......

Enough to make a 'tube/rope' so as not to catch as much wind?

I will be doing the 'X' method paralleling the frame rails as opposed to out, and away from the structure.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by SnowBlind » Thu May 12, 2016 12:24 pm

Damienart wrote:Any recommendations on 3/8" vs 1/2" dia? The latter should have much higher pullout strength, but how hard is it to screw into the playa? Anyone tried 18"?
When I ordered them last year I got 3/8" 14" (that was the longest they had in 3/8") and, because I was concerned about them being strong enough, I also ordered 1/2" 18".

For us, the 3/8" were much faster to drill into the ground. The driver really struggled with the 1/2". Now, I had a cheap Harbor Freight impact driver, that was clearly a bad call.

But I also got the impression that while the 3/8" would properly 'screw' themselves into the ground (in other words, cut a thread and move down in that thread), the 1/2" were turning much more than they were going down. Which means they weren't cutting a proper thread, but rather digging thru the ground.

That made me wonder if the 3/8" 14" might have better pullout strength in the end, since they disturb the ground less while you are drilling them in.

That combined with the test someone did where the 3/8" 12" they were using had some tremendous pull out resistance (much higher than rebar) really leads me to conclude that for most smaller structures, 3/8" are the way to go.

(Also, don't buy the Harbor Freight impact driver. That I really should have known better.)

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by BBadger » Thu May 12, 2016 2:25 pm

DoctorIknow wrote:Mule tape is probably stronger than some ratchet hardware as it has very high test loads (1" wide = 6000lb), but another great thing is that it FEELS GOOD in the hands.
It sure does, doesn't it? It's so silky smooth because it's meant to minimize friction when pulling cables through pipes and stuff. Even so, when tied up with a Blake Hitch (or the trucker hitch; I'll have to try that one too) it grips and is easy to use.

A spool is so cheap as well. I got a 500ft half-spool on eBay for pretty cheap, a lot cheaper than a bunch of store-bought paracord.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by DoctorIknow » Thu May 12, 2016 5:18 pm

BBadger wrote:
A spool is so cheap as well. I got a 500ft half-spool on eBay for pretty cheap, a lot cheaper than a bunch of store-bought paracord.
A Google "Shopping" search for mule tape showed that ebay had the widest variety in spools,,,any company or individual cutting up spools is charging a LOT more per foot. Plus, the ones selling the spools on ebay seem to be large industrial supply companies.
SnowBlind wrote: (Also, don't buy the Harbor Freight impact driver. That I really should have known better.)
I bought the model Item#68099 $50 Harbor Freight 1/2" driver (500+ reviews 4 stars) used by a few in this thread, and gave it a brutal test at home so I could return it if need be. I took it to BM thinking if it failed, I could still pound the lags in. But it worked amazingly well, and the weight of it "feels" like it has durability.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Papa Bear » Thu May 12, 2016 9:54 pm

SnowBlind wrote:Now, I had a cheap Harbor Freight impact driver, that was clearly a bad call.
Which HF tool were you using? I've used their 1/2 inch corded model the last two years with 18" lag screws, and it seemed to work just fine (mind you, I also brought a spare along last year just in case). Didn't have trouble with the 18-inchers spinning more than digging, either.

Not trying to discount your experience, just wondering if the particular model of impact wrench might make a difference? It's also possible the difference is attributable to different spots on the playa, of course - it's definitely not uniform (I was at 4:20 & E).

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by krly » Fri May 13, 2016 2:36 pm

Whichever wrench you used, were you able to run it off a 400 watt inverter ? Or was it battery powered ? Lastly, was one battery pack enough ?
Thanks...........krly

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by SnowBlind » Fri May 13, 2016 3:22 pm

Yes, I was not using that corded impact wrench. We don't have a generator, otherwise I would have gone for that one.

I used the 18 Volt 1/4 in. Cordless Variable Speed Hex Impact Driver (Item Nr 68853).


It did OK with 3/8" lag screws, but struggled with the 1/2". What's worse, with one charge it was able to do about 8 or so 3/8", or 2 of the 1/2". That's clearly useless. It's NiCd, not Lithium Ion, so that probably didn't help either.

I don't know if mine was bad, if the NiCd battery didn't like the heat (it would get pretty hot when using it), or if it is just crap in general. I'll be taking a different one this year, that's for sure.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Fri May 13, 2016 6:46 pm

Ok, so Harbor Freight is one crap. NiCad is another crap...that technology gave cordless tools a bad name that lithium ones still fight against every day. And 1/4" drive for a 3/8-14 lag screw is a third crap.

What you have here is HF and NiCad as the bread, with 1/4" drive in between for a shit-on-toasted-shit sandwich.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by DoctorIknow » Fri May 13, 2016 7:43 pm

After seeing a side-by-side review of the corded Harbor Freight 1/2" corded vs Kobalt (Lowes) 1/2" corded, it's clear that the Kobalt would be the choice if:
-----one can spend $139 vs. $49
-----Kobalt has almost twice the torque (doubtful if that is needed for BM use)
-----Kobalt comes with 7deep sockets and a nice case
-----Kobalt has 5year guarentee vs 90days for HF
-----one will use the tool for lots of projects outside of Burning Man

So, I'd think if one just had use for lag screws in playa "soil" and wanted to save money, the Harbor Freight tool would be fine.

http://www.realtoolreviews.com/kobalt-v ... -wrenches/

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by EGAZ » Fri May 13, 2016 7:59 pm

My rule for HF tools is, 'If its not for fire, life or safety...... buy it'. Basically throw away tools. For instance I have a couple of HF 4.5" right angle grinders. The replacement wheels (3-pack) cost more than the grinder. If I can get one or two good projects out of it I'm good to go.

All other tools I buy Craftsman 85% of the time for hand tools, Snap On (for my birthday), Milwaukee, Porta-Band, and select Makita for power tools.......

But I'm a tool whore so take it for whats worth..... :D
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Papa Bear » Fri May 13, 2016 8:44 pm

DoctorIknow wrote:So, I'd think if one just had use for lag screws in playa "soil" and wanted to save money, the Harbor Freight tool would be fine.
...and that's pretty much my only need for it (and I'm pretty sure it's the only power tool I've ever bought from them). For tools I use elsewhere, I go with better brands, and they generally don't go to the playa.

I figure the playa can kill anything, so I always try to have backups for items that are either critical or would be really inconvenient to do without. The HF can typically be had for $39 if you wait for the right sale, so for $80 + tax I have a good enough impact wrench for the job, and a backup stored sealed up away from the dust in case the primary one fails (which, I admit, it is probably more likely than if I'd bought a better model).

Krly, the smallest generator I've run mine off of was a Honda EU1000i. I'm afraid I have no idea whether it would work on a 400W inverter.

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