Semantics

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:17 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
Skull wrote:Never heard the one about dinner and supper. very interesting indeed.

I believe the same goes for pop and soda, pop being the midwestern term.
And then there's the people who call "lunch" dinner and use supper for the evening meal--don't even get me to High Tea.

And "soda pop" seemed to be what I used as a kid. In books set in the south they seem to drink "Co-cola."

The champion is (as far as I know) is ottoman, chesterfield, davenport, couch, sofa.

Linguists actually draw maps and infer stuff about social class from usage of this sortl

those dinner - then - supper people are the minnesotans, in my experience.

(my family is midwestern. i'm the only one born out here, so we've gone through a very intereting linguistic morph over my lifetime.

when i was young, it was davenport. as we became more northwestern, it became a couch.

same is true of soda and pop.. i just can't remember which was which.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:17 pm

Rian Jackson wrote:isn't queer one of those terms that fits in the reclaimed category?

With those who reclaim the language. Not everyone is comfortable with that. It depends on age and experience. I'm not sure if I can reclaim the "c-word" myself, and even hearing the "n-word" fills me with a shame and horror. but on the latter, I'm white and it's probabply best that I stay that way (cringing, not white)

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:18 pm

Rian Jackson wrote: salf

ok, sometimes i wonder about mysAlf.

*shaking head*

doh!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:19 pm

Rian Jackson wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
Skull wrote:Never heard the one about dinner and supper. very interesting indeed.

I believe the same goes for pop and soda, pop being the midwestern term.
And then there's the people who call "lunch" dinner and use supper for the evening meal--don't even get me to High Tea.

And "soda pop" seemed to be what I used as a kid. In books set in the south they seem to drink "Co-cola."

The champion is (as far as I know) is ottoman, chesterfield, davenport, couch, sofa.

Linguists actually draw maps and infer stuff about social class from usage of this sortl
those dinner - then - supper people are the minnesotans, in my experience.

I think it also holds in parts of England. The supper is for the big meal and lunch is for small midday meal and dinner is for small evening meal.

gigglesnort · Post by **gigglesnort** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:28 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:.....And "soda pop" seemed to be what I used as a kid. In books set in the south they seem to drink "Co-cola."....

Actually, in the south all soda is a coke first, then you specify flavor if asked (ie Dr. Pepper).

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:46 pm

To other people it's "Trailer Trash"; to me it's always been "the neighbors"
Or "redneck" which is "dipshits" to me..
and "classmates" which is "Ignorant, no nothing, fucking, sheep fuckers"

Yeah, it's the little things...

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:52 pm

I just had a revelation,,,

Samtzu for president in 08'

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:59 pm

Thanks, Bull... I would run on the "Fuck You, I'll do what I want" ticket... which, coincidentaly, is what the last winner ran on.

I think we have a theme camp here...

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:01 pm

One right next to another, "Bush" "No Bush". Gotta stop talking to DC brass.

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:03 pm

How about the "I need Bush" ticket... It pretty much explains my motivation for running...

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:04 pm

Can I be in the administration?

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:06 pm

samtzu wrote:Thanks, Bull... I would run on the "Fuck You, I'll do what I want" ticket... which, coincidentaly, is what the last winner ran on.

I think we have a theme camp here...

oooh, oooh, I wanna be the campaign manager. I will set up some VERY CANDID interviews and stuff. You can there talk about the little things that are important... We'll have em eating out of your hands with all of the brutal honesty being thrown at them.
So, start the campaign at BurningMan 05'?

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:10 pm

bullD wrote:
samtzu wrote:Thanks, Bull... I would run on the "Fuck You, I'll do what I want" ticket... which, coincidentaly, is what the last winner ran on.

I think we have a theme camp here...
oooh, oooh, I wanna be the campaign manager. I will set up some VERY CANDID interviews and stuff. You can there talk about the little things that are important... We'll have em eating out of your hands with all of the brutal honesty being thrown at them.
So, start the campaign at BurningMan 05'?

Right... but my hands are not what I want them eating out of.... I was thinking "lap"...

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:11 pm

I call campaign speeech writer.

Do you have the number of a good bailbondsman?

No real reason. Just asking.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:12 pm

And I promise to start all your speechs with,

"Now listen up, you inbreed pathetic cocksuckers..."

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:08 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
Rian Jackson wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:And then there's the people who call "lunch" dinner and use supper for the evening meal--don't even get me to High Tea.

And "soda pop" seemed to be what I used as a kid. In books set in the south they seem to drink "Co-cola."

The champion is (as far as I know) is ottoman, chesterfield, davenport, couch, sofa.

Linguists actually draw maps and infer stuff about social class from usage of this sortl
those dinner - then - supper people are the minnesotans, in my experience.
I think it also holds in parts of England. The supper is for the big meal and lunch is for small midday meal and dinner is for small evening meal.

Growing up in Iowa one generation off the farm, Dinner traditionally was used in regard to a Big noon meal and supper was a smaller evening meal ( old time farm way of eating ). Once people moved to work in factories, the noon meal became lunch ( a smaller meal ] and the big meal was eaten in the evening and might have still been called supper or might have been called dinner. Feasts usually are eaten around noon and are called dinner like in Thanksgiving Dinner, or Christmas Dinner.

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:25 am

Rob the Wop wrote:And I promise to start all your speechs with,

"Now listen up, you inbreed pathetic cocksuckers..."

Oh yes, a lecturn with some loud speakers. I WILL get the crowd...

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:28 am

Pancakes, hotcakes, flapjacks, jonnhycakes, griddle cakes. I remember the change on the menus as our family drove from California to Tennessee then to Virginia in the 60s.

A fancy couch is a settee.

GuinivereElise · Post by **GuinivereElise** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:00 am

As a former minnesotan:

[thick northern MN accent]
they say 'pop' with a really open vowel. "paaaap"

you won't find them talking fancyschmancy about a davenport: it's a plain old couch, yah you betcha, and it's a footstool, not an ottoman.

Dinner is your noon meal, and supper is your evening meal. In the middle of the afternoon, you might have "a little lunch", which is never really all that little.

If I tell someone from MN that I have a lover, or *gasp* MANY lovers, they just assume I'm a slut, and that I'm having annonymous sex with just about anyone I can get my hands on.

If I tell someone from MN that I have a boyfriend, they want to know when the wedding is set for.

you might here the people from my hometown talk about 'going down' on someone, but the closest they'll ever come to anything even RESEMBLING descriptive is maybe 'eating her out' or 'smoking pole'.

I have never... I repeat, NEVER... heard anyone from my hometown say the word 'vagina' or 'penis'.... boys have a dick, and girls, well... that's just not something they're comfortable with. Pussy, maybe. or the ever popular 'slit'...

[/thick northern MN accent]

lovely, eh?

Personally, mine's a cunt. I love it. Cunt. But i will never, ever, use the term as an insult.

Rian, did you ever take the class "Gay and Lesbian Voices in Theology"? We spent the whole first week talking about the reclamation of the word Queer. And, after that, we called the class "Queer Theology". It was a great class.

OOO! What about this one:

Duck Duck Goose
or
Duck Duck Greyduck???

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:15 am

you strange ass grey duckers!

i missed that class.. damn damn damn...

your accent just reminded me of so many people we went to school with.

the part i don't get is that, despite the midwestern sexual social politics, there was a lot of sleeping with a lot of people happening over there last time i checked.

my uncles are queer, one of them a pastor (the one who is related to me by blood) The, uh, 'situation', like cunts, was something that was not talked about, though i hear it was a huge scandal in some cummunities.

Fuck the midwest, man. glad you got out.

GuinivereElise · Post by **GuinivereElise** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:50 am

me too. glad I got out, I mean.

but of course there was a lot of sleeping with people going on: 1) it was college 2) what else are people going to do with 9 months of winter??

the class was great... very low key... discussion oriented... but really GREAT discussions, you know?

oh, and the accent: I could hear my mom's when she came to visit. funny. Remember the movie Fargo?

That was SO my hometown. The big Paul Bunyan statue? I've been there. I have a photo with me and Babe the Blue Ox. I watch that movie, and relate on so many levels it's scary.

gigglesnort · Post by **gigglesnort** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:55 am

GuinivereElise wrote:...... what else are people going to do with 9 months of winter??.....

Aside from Arkansas, I've lived in a very small handful of places, one of them being a three-month stint at the end of winter-beginning of spring in Minetonka (sp?), Minnesota. The most glorious spring I've ever beheld! Everything uprising to celebrate the end of that nine-month winter....intense, yah, yoo betcha! Beautiful!

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:58 am

I just finished a program/tour with 8 people from Sakatchewan, OK Eh!

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:01 am

rural California, which is was the same as rural Oklahoma... Raised on Hank Williams (senior) and Buck Owens... eeeeeeeeeh!

That's where the constant "y'alls" come from...

GuinivereElise · Post by **GuinivereElise** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:07 am

gigglesnort wrote:
GuinivereElise wrote:...... what else are people going to do with 9 months of winter??.....
Aside from Arkansas, I've lived in a very small handful of places, one of them being a three-month stint at the end of winter-beginning of spring in Minetonka (sp?), Minnesota. The most glorious spring I've ever beheld! Everything uprising to celebrate the end of that nine-month winter....intense, yah, yoo betcha! Beautiful!

spring is my favourite season for exactly that reason.

oh god, help. i'm rhyming...

minnetonka.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:11 am

Zulegoona wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
Rian Jackson wrote: those dinner - then - supper people are the minnesotans, in my experience.
I think it also holds in parts of England. The supper is for the big meal and lunch is for small midday meal and dinner is for small evening meal.
Growing up in Iowa one generation off the farm, Dinner traditionally was used in regard to a Big noon meal and supper was a smaller evening meal ( old time farm way of eating ). Once people moved to work in factories, the noon meal became lunch ( a smaller meal ] and the big meal was eaten in the evening and might have still been called supper or might have been called dinner. Feasts usually are eaten around noon and are called dinner like in Thanksgiving Dinner, or Christmas Dinner.

checked with the MrFishist last night. He sez that in Minneapolis during the school year it was one and on the farm in Iowa the other, but he can't remember exact usage anymore. They did eat a lot of extra lunches on the farm apparently, but that's farm life and work for ya.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:14 am

hey, I'm also one generation off the farm.

but my only real farming experience is feeding holstein calves from bottles, dodging cow shit, and playing in the barn.

oh, and getting lost in cornfields.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:16 am

Apparently he was forced labor in the summer--dodging tractor-killing tornados and 'walking the beans.'

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:27 am

Rian Jackson wrote:hey, I'm also one generation off the farm.

but my only real farming experience is feeding holstein calves from bottles, dodging cow shit, and playing in the barn.

oh, and getting lost in cornfields.

That was about the extent of my experience too.

I did have a friend who's girlfriend's family had a turkey farm that I was drafted to help on a few times trucking the turkeys from the buildings that they were started in to the "range" a field with little shade structures. funny to think about it now, we would drive the birds to the end of the building then up a conveyer ramp into the back of a early 50's dump truck, drive it out to the field then dump them out as you drove along slowly.

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:56 am

Whoa, I too lived not necessarily on a 'farm' but, we had acres with big gardens, dogs, cats, critters, and a pig and a couple of horses; we were surrounded by strawberry farms though, yummy. The barn was my favorite place to hang out and the pig was my favorite animal; i actually rode on the pigs back in the yard, funny stuff. We ate poor Petunia eventually... The corral was cool too, we used to set up bicycle tracks with jumps and stuff and then race. It always sucked getting stuck on the corral fence due to the electric current running around it to keep the horses off of it,

, my brother would usually have to pull me off. Ohhh, and it was about that time that the word 'Dude' was becoming really popular right along with skate-boarding. Yes, this all happened in California...