Securing Shade Structure, Among Other Questions

[Canoe]

One thing I'm wondering about, is the strength of the bit of PVC that's left where you loop the rope through the holes.
Perhaps there's a way to also loop the rope around the outside of the pole, so the load is on the outside curve of the pole, not just on that bit of PVC that's between the holes you drilled.
You can look at a way of improving that, or post a detail photo and let us play with it.

[s_ting]

Lag screws are not going flush in defaultia. People are putting 1/2" lag screws flush on the playa.
You do not NEED to go down to 3/8".
Do do not need 1/2" for the size and wind load of your structure.
Going to 3/8" makes them easier to drive into the playa. = less chance of having to resort to a ratchet.

We just got a breaker bar for the lag screws, and a 4.0 Ah battery (vs. the original 2.0 Ah which we'll keep as backup). I was under the impression that if we can't get the lag screws flush in defaultia it would be harder on the playa. I think if we still struggle to get the 18" lag screws in, we'll keep it at 1/2" but drop down to 14" in length so we don't need a new socket for our impact driver. Bless our local store that has same day pickup...

So if you've nailed (staked) the base of the tent, do you have guylines to prevent the top of the tent from blowing over in the wind?
(Why stakes for the tent if you've got lag screws.)

We bought military stakes before we decided to go with any lag screws so I want to at least feel like I'm using the random shit that I bought I was under the impression, from what I've read on ePlaya and elsewhere, that Kodiak tents don't require guylines to withstand the usual playa winds. That all being said, we do have guylines as we plan on using lines for our shade cloth so we have some readily available.

At this late stage, you've pretty much got everything fitting, so no major changes unless you need (or really want) to.

• By adding chain-links to the bottom of the poles, they can be lag screwed into the playa.
  These lag screws don't need to be as long as the guyline anchors.
  As the base of the pole is secured in place, there is no need for the ropes running across the ground.
• The holes for those ground ropes can be used to tie chain-links to the bottom of the poles. No PVC pole modification.
• Rather than find a new pole solution, the idea is to place a 2x4 beside your existing PVC pole and lash them together - after the structure is built!
  • The PVC still takes the compression load to the playa, but the 2x4 limits now far the pvc can bend. Lash it correctly, and the PVC bending will be minimal, allowing it to retain its compression strength down the length of the pole.
  • All your connections remain on the PVC as you've tested them.
• To protect the tarp, whatever you decide will be highest (PVC vs. 2x4) will contact the tarp and has to have something on it to protect the tarp. I'm thinking tennis ball: in the end of the pipe, over the pipe, or over the end of the 2x4.
• Assuming the wind isn't crazy when you setup (you'll be waiting if it is),
  • build your structure on the playa with the PVC - tight but not overnight,
  • don't install the tarp yet,
  • raise and place your tent,
  • and then go get the 2x4s.
  Do keep in touch with him to be sure he doesn't have a last minute camp address change. His shiny yurt should be pretty easy to spot once you're in the general area (take a photo for us).
• Once back with the 2x4s it's time to lash them to the poles.
  • If the 2x4s are too long, so you don't have to saw them shorter, use a hammer to dent the playa (not dig) where the base of the 2x4 will go. (Check the final height of your PVC poles; perhaps you can ask that the 2x4s be stud length not eight foot.)
  • Place the 2x4 along the PVC pole.
  • Lash it so they're held together at a number of heights along the pole. I'd go for a secure lash every foot, just because.
    Use the rope that previously ran across the ground.
• Check your tensions.
• Install the shade cloth.

I don't know if you're camping independently or with a camp, but either way you can go get your 2x4s from Kevin before setting up your camp, or do the order listed above.

One thing I'm wondering about, is the strength of the bit of PVC that's left where you loop the rope through the holes.
Perhaps there's a way to also loop the rope around the outside of the pole, so the load is on the outside curve of the pole, not just on that bit of PVC that's between the holes you drilled.
You can look at a way of improving that, or post a detail photo and let us play with it.

Cheers to this amazing write up. I think I owe you a couple of beers and a dusty hug. We may be camping independently, or may take a spot at HOVerlandia if there is space. All up in the air right now...

We like the idea of looping the rope around the outside of the pole. Boyfriend just tried that and it seems to add a lot more support. We'll play with all that's been discussed this upcoming Saturday. I'd post pictures and update this thread post Saturday, but chances are everyone will be off on their journey already by then!

[Canoe]

...I was under the impression, from what I've read on ePlaya and elsewhere, that Kodiak tents don't require guy-lines to withstand the usual playa winds. That all being said, we do have guy-lines as we plan on using lines for our shade cloth so we have some readily available. ...

I'm not familiar with that tent, so that could be with that tent.
But I am familiar with playa winds and wind loads. You may be interested in the first post in this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=277&t=65276
Pick the yurt that has the closest side area profile as your tent. See the wind load range you can get from 75 mph.

Guy-lines
As it's key to your shade tension structure, you're already familiar with how well having two guy-lines off of the top of your poles holds them in position. The same applies for anyplace you'd have a guy-line. Most miss that for their tents and tarps. In the following thread, look at the first photo in the thread and the top corner of the shade tarp/structure and how it has one guy-line. It would be a lot more stable against dynamic loads with two guy-lines. Same for the corners of the tarp. Lower in that thread is two photos of a Kealty in someone's backyard, using single guy-lines. And lower down again, is the same Kealty on the playa: now using two guy-lines per attachment point. We usually have to do some convincing on using two guy-lines, but those that do are amazed at the difference it makes in stability and the ability to handle wind.
I don't know how your final structure will look with the tarp on it, so I can't recommend where that may be needed or of benefit, but with the experience you already have tensioning your structure, I expect you can figure that out on your own.

> I was under the impression that if we can't get the lag screws flush in defaultia it would be harder on the playa.
Really? How does the soil where you're testing compare to the playa...
Go with the experience on the playa. You can check in the lag screw thread, but you've already got the essence in info and the solutions, so I expect you've got better things to do.

p.s. Do find out the maximum size and weight per bag when flying. It's a pain to pay crazy or have a bag refused at the airport. Make sure you distribute you load around. 3/8" is also lighter than 1/2".
Once you fly out west, I don't know where you land or how you're getting to BRC. Do remember that with airline fees, it may be cheaper to ship to a UPS Store in Reno and pick your stuff up there. Same for sending it home.

[s_ting]

I'm not familiar with that tent, so that could be with that tent.
But I am familiar with playa winds and wind loads. You may be interested in the first post in this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=277&t=65276
Pick the yurt that has the closest side area profile as your tent. See the wind load range you can get from 75 mph.

Guy-lines
As it's key to your shade tension structure, you're already familiar with how well having two guy-lines off of the top of your poles holds them in position. The same applies for anyplace you'd have a guy-line. Most miss that for their tents and tarps. In the following thread, look at the first photo in the thread and the top corner of the shade tarp/structure and how it has one guy-line. It would be a lot more stable against dynamic loads with two guy-lines. Same for the corners of the tarp. Lower in that thread is two photos of a Kealty in someone's backyard, using single guy-lines. And lower down again, is the same Kealty on the playa: now using two guy-lines per attachment point. We usually have to do some convincing on using two guy-lines, but those that do are amazed at the difference it makes in stability and the ability to handle wind.
I don't know how your final structure will look with the tarp on it, so I can't recommend where that may be needed or of benefit, but with the experience you already have tensioning your structure, I expect you can figure that out on your own.

> I was under the impression that if we can't get the lag screws flush in defaultia it would be harder on the playa.
Really? How does the soil where you're testing compare to the playa...
Go with the experience on the playa. You can check in the lag screw thread, but you've already got the essence in info and the solutions, so I expect you've got better things to do.

p.s. Do find out the maximum size and weight per bag when flying. It's a pain to pay crazy or have a bag refused at the airport. Make sure you distribute you load around. 3/8" is also lighter than 1/2".
Once you fly out west, I don't know where you land or how you're getting to BRC. Do remember that with airline fees, it may be cheaper to ship to a UPS Store in Reno and pick your stuff up there. Same for sending it home.

Love the analysis--numbers and charts make me happy.

I think I'm missing the thread you're referring to for the guylines, but we will definitely do two at each point for the tarp. Don't need much convincing here, it's a great point! I would love to take a look at that thread if you have it handy still, to see the difference between one and two lines at the attachment points.

We sketchily wandered to a park in the city here and tried to drive the 18" lag screws into the ground again with a better battery at like 11PM, and with a breaker bar. We were able to successfully get it flush using a 15 inch breaker bar and it wasn't too exhausting. I'm still tempted to downgrade to 14" lag screws though, since it really does become a more manual task for those last four inches or so. Maybe it's a mental thing, I just felt better seeing it sit flush in defaultia, hah. And it would definitely cut down on the weight too.

I'm got spreadsheets on spreadsheets laying out what items go into which bag to try and avoid any oversize luggage fees... BxB from Reno after flying in, so hopefully won't need to do any repacking. Luggage measurements seem to work so far, though our gear is definitely getting on the heavier side now with all these additional tools. It sure adds up quickly...

[Canoe]

I think I'm missing the thread you're referring to for the guylines, but we will definitely do two at each point for the tarp...

viewtopic.php?t=70367

[Canoe]

STOP thinking that the soil where you are now equals what the playa will be like.
Go with the collective knowledge on putting 3/8" or 1/2" lag screws of various lengths into the playa. That also varies some based on your specific location on the playa - you have no control over that.
If you HAVE to know beyond the info you already have: viewtopic.php?f=277&t=68556

[s_ting]

viewtopic.php?t=70367

Thank you! I had a feeling this was the thread you were referring to. Very helpful.

STOP thinking that the soil where you are now equals what the playa will be like.
Go with the collective knowledge on putting 3/8" or 1/2" lag screws of various lengths into the playa. That also varies some based on your specific location on the playa - you have no control over that.
If you HAVE to know beyond the info you already have: viewtopic.php?f=277&t=68556

Ahaha, okay, thank you for the reminder (again). We will settle with our lag screws and hope it goes smoothly into the playa. I see many mentions of others using the same lag screws that we purchased in that thread, so I feel a bit more reassured.

Cheers mate, thanks again for all your help!

[s_ting]

We properly guyed out our shade cloth today and I feel much better about the structure now.



We're anchoring the ropes at the bottom down with extra 12" stakes so if anything were to break, the pieces won't be able to go anywhere. We are thinking of tying a section of rope along each pipe as well, so that if anything were to break the top piece *really* couldn't go anywhere. The PVC pipes feel anchored into position and we'll be padding the portion of the cloth that is going over the pipe in the back to avoid rub. Even if there may be some bend in the middle of the pipes, the top and bottom points are heavily anchored by the ropes and it doesn't lose tension.

Thanks again all for the help (especially Canoe). Additional thoughts welcome, but I finally feel playa ready with this now. We even did better with the 18" lags this time around. I guess practice does make perfect...

[Canoe]

Looking good.

But, again, if you attach links to the bottom of each pole, then the pole can be secured directly - and independently - to the ground with a lag screws. Now their anchor is independent of the ropes and those other anchors.
This also means you can lose the ropes running across the ground.

Where the edge of the shade cloth has guylines going out to the anchors to the far left and right, would be a lot more wind resistant with another anchor point per each side.

71rc3p-adj.jpg

Do you have a shot from the back showing what appears might be folds in your shade cloth?

P.S.
Someone could get some nasty gouges falling against those exposed bolts on the poles. Cut them shorter? Pool-noodles to cover them?

[s_ting]

Looking good.

But, again, if you attach links to the bottom of each pole, then the pole can be secured directly - and independently - to the ground with a lag screws. Now their anchor is independent of the ropes and those other anchors.
This also means you can lose the ropes running across the ground.

Where the edge of the shade cloth has guylines going out to the anchors to the far left and right, would be a lot more wind resistant with another anchor point per each side.

Do you have a shot from the back showing what appears might be folds in your shade cloth?

P.S.
Someone could get some nasty gouges falling against those exposed bolts on the poles. Cut them shorter? Pool-noodles to cover them?

Love the diagram--thanks for that. Having less rope on the ground as a tripping hazard would be ideal, so we'll see what we can do here in the next couple of days. We'll double up on guylines on the playa and use some extra 12" stakes for the new anchors.

You're very observant on the back of the shade structure--since our cloth is a rectangle being tied to a triangular top, we're folding a portion in the back over itself and guying them out to opposite corners so that it's taut. We hadn't fully executed this yet in the picture.

Good call too on the bolts--we have a bunch of styrofoam wrap and will make sure to duct tape some around the bolts (: