Risks Posed by an Underage Camp Member?

[absurdstarfish]

One of my camp mates would like to invite a friend to join our small theme camp (25-30 members), but the girl is only 19 years old which inevitably exposes us to the risk of being caught serving/furnishing alcohol to a minor. How big of a concern do you think this should be as we consider whether to allow her to join? Has anyone ever heard of law enforcement coming down on a camp after catching an underage member intoxicated?

[Chowski]

Anything which is illegal in default is illegal at Burning man, including underage drinking, providing alcohol to a minor, possessing and/or selling drugs, public sex, and public urination/defecation. Yes, the coppers come down on camps who give alcohol to minors. ALL THE TIME. Often, one infraction leads to the bust of an entire camp, as it provides the piggies with Probable Cause to search, and/or it provides them with the excuse they need to pressure a 19-year-old drunk girl into giving them the right to search her and everyone else's tent.

If your camp is 30 people of age, I wouldn't open it to somebody's 19-year-old girlfriend. But that's just me. You get to decide the level of risk you take not only upon yourself, but upon everybody in your camp.

[absurdstarfish]

Anything which is illegal in default is illegal at Burning man, including underage drinking, providing alcohol to a minor, possessing and/or selling drugs, public sex, and public urination/defecation. Yes, the coppers come down on camps who give alcohol to minors. ALL THE TIME. Often, one infraction leads to the bust of an entire camp, as it provides the piggies with Probable Cause to search, and/or it provides them with the excuse they need to pressure a 19-year-old drunk girl into giving them the right to search her and everyone else's tent.

If your camp is 30 people of age, I wouldn't open it to somebody's 19-year-old girlfriend. But that's just me. You get to decide the level of risk you take not only upon yourself, but upon everybody in your camp.

I guess the crux of my question is how frequently law enforcement actually catches a minor drinking (and what happens when they do) - or if most of the risk people think of in regards to serving minors actually comes from sting operations where LEO's try to get service at a bar. If it's the latter then her attendance isn't the real concern, its how we handle visitors.

[some seeing eye]

The LEOs are not actively looking for under age individuals that are inebriated, unless they are driving a car, truck or MV.

If an underage inebriated individual manages to somehow attract the attention of LEO enough for their ID to be examined/they admit they are underage, and then they disclose from whom/from camp they sere served, the individual or camp will be in for a world of grief.

One risk that has come up is an under 18 individual voluntarily going missing. In that case, the gate is closed until they are found. That is a huge PITA for everyone. Don't bring that person. We had a 17 year old in our very small camp who really benefitted by participating.

[lucky420]

just keep it on the down low. You'll be fine

[lucky420]

my youngest daughter came with me before she was 21 so we didnt hit up any bars that first year. No biggie, bring your own

[Sham]

One of our camp mates had her daughter and a friend camp with us. It's the responsibility of the camp not to serve alcohol, and even more important for the underage person not to endanger the security of the camp. I would have been really pissed if these younger girls got us in deep shit.

Again, do what you want, but you are responsible for the outcome.

[Token]

Here is a situation that happened.

Small camp, bunch of coolers in the shade full of soda, juice and beers.

Kid opens cooler and gets a Diet Coke.

Cop sees content of cooler which had some beers in it.

Cop finds owner of cooler and writes a $1000 ticket.

Easy money.

Watched it happen so not some playa chicken story.

Moral of the story, have all kids drink vodka mixers from a sippy cup pre-mixed off playa and kept in their own cooler.

[lucky420]

Anything which is illegal in default is illegal at Burning man, including underage drinking, providing alcohol to a minor, possessing and/or selling drugs, public sex, and public urination/defecation. Yes, the coppers come down on camps who give alcohol to minors. ALL THE TIME. Often, one infraction leads to the bust of an entire camp, as it provides the piggies with Probable Cause to search, and/or it provides them with the excuse they need to pressure a 19-year-old drunk girl into giving them the right to search her and everyone else's tent.

If your camp is 30 people of age, I wouldn't open it to somebody's 19-year-old girlfriend. But that's just me. You get to decide the level of risk you take not only upon yourself, but upon everybody in your camp.

I guess the crux of my question is how frequently law enforcement actually catches a minor drinking (and what happens when they do) - or if most of the risk people think of in regards to serving minors actually comes from sting operations where LEO's try to get service at a bar. If it's the latter then her attendance isn't the real concern, its how we handle visitors.

Yeah if I were you I would be more concerned on how I handle visitors, if you're running a bar card everyone. Don't let her work the bar (duh). Unless your 19 yr old gets buck wild cop fighting drunk, your prob ok. If she's drinking maybe make sure she's got someone looking after her to make sure she stays safe too.

[lucky420]

But yeah shit can happen. It most definetly can

[Lonesomebri]

Okay, look, the deal is, who is this 19 year old? A nice respectful child, a cool kid. Sure, as the responses here indicate, a 19 year old at the Burn is no problem. But, if it's a camp of partying people, they're drinking, dynamics running wild, emotions high, this is a romantic 19 year old, where drama will already be happening. Okay. Just don't piss off that 19 year old, cause they can bring down the whole camp.

As an aside, one burn, as I stood slack jawed after the line dropped, close in, heat on the cheeks and freaks dancing around flames, I offered another old fart a cold beer, he said to me "I'm here with my daughter, she's here somewhere...." As he wandered off.

[BBadger]

Please make sure she won't trigger a seven-hour exodus "Amber Alert."

[spacetime]

Assuming teenager is coolest ever, which is a big assumption--Is there a way the 19 y o can be sort of in a camp "addition?"

This would be some plausible deniability that they are among but not with or responsibly tied to the camp? Maybe put them on the edge or make them a ward of a nearby camp somehow? Like Theon Greyjoy?

[BBadger]

Maybe set up a "Zion Curtain" in the camp to hide all the enticing alcohol, or at least the view of its preparation, from the eyes of innocent, but easily influenced, minors.

[spacetime]

Maybe set up a "Zion Curtain" in the camp to hide all the enticing alcohol, or at least the view of its preparation, from the eyes of innocent, but easily influenced, minors.

I second this. Exactly the kind of creative thinking this situation needs. It may be a responsibility to block out this activity, and offer the camp mate a reasonable way to get out from potential LEO aspersions due to affiliation with the mature themes of your camp.

[BBadger]

Er, well that was more to make a joke about the silliness of the concept of Zion Curtains, though I guess one could set up a "kids table" section of the camp with a non-alcoholic-drinks-labeled cooler. That or keep all the alcohol behind a bar and forbid the kids from that section of camp.

[maladroit]

The problem with kids is that they aggressively fill that ecological niche, meaning that everyone else can't be kids anymore.

[BBadger]

The problem with kids is that they aggressively fill that ecological niche, meaning that everyone else can't be kids anymore.

It is interesting how that dynamic plays out. Suddenly it's not just older kids, but kids and adults.

[maladroit]

Fuck that shit!

[Token]

Sweet Mother of Dog, there is just bushels of sand in the vagina on this one.

At 19 years old the lovely lady is an adult. She needs no guardian, can enter into legal contracts, vote, enlist in the army and die for her country, and fuck any other adult on the planet should she choose.

So pretty please, leave the young woman alone and mind your own business.

The responsible thing to do here is be radically self reliant and lock up your booze you damn alcoholics!

[Chowski]

I disagree. Sometimes with myself, but not in this instance. My camp is made up of friends and friends of friends. New membership is only allowed if a previous attendee invites a new attendee (virgin or not). That means the camp has a say in who stays with us.

Who is this young woman? Is she a super responsible, contributing maker who has been to multiple Regional event sand can handle herself? is she some thirty-three year old guy's 19-year-old girlfriend who needs to wash her hair every day and plays stupid games?

The decision to camp with an underage person puts everybody in the camp at risk - it is unfair to expect all your campers to bear that risk. I'd say, if there's any question about her maturity or potential contribution (or non-contribution) to the camp, camp leads put their foot down and say "no way". If it's iffy, let the camp vote.

[Papa Bear]

Is that really much different than any other potential new member, though?

Whether 19 or 39, anybody could turn out to be a drama-filled sparklepony, or decide to participate in other illegal activities that might bring scrutiny.

[spacetime]

Er, well that was more to make a joke about the silliness of the concept of Zion Curtains, though I guess one could set up a "kids table" section of the camp with a non-alcoholic-drinks-labeled cooler. That or keep all the alcohol behind a bar and forbid the kids from that section of camp.

I knew it was a joke and was further joking. I still like my ward idea.

[spacetime]

Is that really much different than any other potential new member, though?

Whether 19 or 39, anybody could turn out to be a drama-filled sparklepony, or decide to participate in other illegal activities that might bring scrutiny.

It isn't but I think the silly games / drama is a hallmark of teenager experience. It isn't really supposed to be for someone 39 years of age.

[Dr. Pyro]

I wonder if she's ever seen the back of an RV?

[Kelsier]

I wonder if she's ever seen the back of an RV?

I've been waiting for a creepy Dr. Pyro RV comment.

Thanks for not disappointing!

[Token]

I disagree. Sometimes with myself, but not in this instance. My camp is made up of friends and friends of friends. New membership is only allowed if a previous attendee invites a new attendee (virgin or not). That means the camp has a say in who stays with us.

Who is this young woman? Is she a super responsible, contributing maker who has been to multiple Regional event sand can handle herself? is she some thirty-three year old guy's 19-year-old girlfriend who needs to wash her hair every day and plays stupid games?

The decision to camp with an underage person puts everybody in the camp at risk - it is unfair to expect all your campers to bear that risk. I'd say, if there's any question about her maturity or potential contribution (or non-contribution) to the camp, camp leads put their foot down and say "no way". If it's iffy, let the camp vote.

Fuck man, you need some butt-salve for all the splinters from the 2x4 shoved up your ass.

A paragraph from the OP and you already have some pre-conceived notion of truth, completely based in your personal insecurities.

I'd call you a "misogynistic fuckall" if I wasn't so fond of you.

Reign it in cowboy. Don't be "that guy".

[BBadger]

I knew it was a joke and was further joking. I still like my ward idea.

Wards, Zion Curtains, ... what's next Family Home Evening, Missionaries?

Might be a fun theme actually...

[Papa Bear]

I think the silly games / drama is a hallmark of teenager experience. It isn't really supposed to be for someone 39 years of age.

So you'd think, but there seem to be no age or gender limits to silly games and drama. Some people never seem to get past about age 13.

Campmates under the age of 18 obviously introduce a host of potential issues, but once they've passed the age of majority, it's all pretty much variations on the same thing.

[Joeln]

In 2014 and 2015 my 12/13 year old daughter came to BM.
I was taking her every other day and her mom had her in kidsville.
2014 sucked because she just wanted to chase the boys at kidsville but 2015 was great.
She came to my camp and immediately became well liked by quite a few campers.
She loved hanging around with the bar crowd and talked for hours (she was careful to keep her distance from booze).
The neighbor camp people adopted her as well. People in our camp all knew to keep an eye on her especially regarding underage crap.

She really handled herself well and has a number of adult friends from that year. No drama whatsoever.

This year is going to be really nice because I won't have any kid responsibilities.