Who is Terbo Ted? Should workers get paid for running camps on the playa?

[bm_cricket]

Well, reading the Burning Man Journal I came across this: https://journal.burningman.org/2017/09/ ... year-ever/

An interesting quote from the post on the page says: "At least these workers were all getting paid. I hope."

That suuuuure did anger a few people in the comments. What do you think about it? What does this mean for Burning Man culture or a shift in Burning Man philosophy?

[gaminwench]

Terbo Ted is a turd,
(At least that is my impression after reading his drivel)

I am in the 'no one should be paid to build/staff/stock/strike a camp' camp.
No surprise there.

(as an aside, I was in relationship with a very wealthy man for a bit, and we came to the playa in our own self-reliant manner for years. It's not that the rich *can't* be responsible, it's that they *choose* not to; it appears that the Org supports that choice, in the rich.)

[Admiral Fukkit]

Everything follows the money trail.
Bmorg is no exception.

[BBadger]

There should be ICE-type raids on these camps where the employers and these "undocumented" BRC workers are arrested for violating the terms of the event, fined, thrown out of the event, and blacklisted. The people who paid for the services can then fend for themselves or GTFO too. Oh hell, let's throw them out too, along with the corrupt BMORG enablers.

[bm_cricket]

Everything follows the money trail.
Bmorg is no exception.

Hi Admiral,

Yep... Does camp "I'm going to Hawaii instead" have any openings?

[bm_cricket]

Oh, does anyone want to take bets on how long it takes for some revisionist history to happen to either the journal page or this ePlaya post?

[gaminwench]

I'm going to bet that nothing will happen to this post, other than more eplayans weighing in.

[bm_cricket]

I'm going to bet that nothing will happen to this post, other than more eplayans weighing in.

Great.... *looks at watch*....

[gaminwench]

Why do you think this eplaya post would disappear?

[Just_Joe]

Ted Turbolizard.
Known for his "wide ranging failures"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Terbolizard

[bm_cricket]

Ted Turbolizard.
Known for his "wide ranging failures"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Terbolizard

Oh god. I hope I never have a wiki page dedicated to me for these reasons...

[Admiral Fukkit]

Everything follows the money trail.
Bmorg is no exception.

Hi Admiral,

Yep... Does camp "I'm going to Hawaii instead" have any openings?

Yes. Yes it does. And it's TOTALLY plug & play.

[some seeing eye]

What a strange nonsensical post.

"I ate luxury foods, talked to camp managers who hire workers, but the real problem is bikes. So let's blame the bike problem on PnP."

[Avacadi]

Everything follows the money trail.
Bmorg is no exception.

Hi Admiral,

Yep... Does camp "I'm going to Hawaii instead" have any openings?

Yes. Yes it does. And it's TOTALLY plug & play.

Hey now... I totally got to go to Hawaii for working on their leaks for a day in 120 degree weather... Only got paid 120 bucks and had to pay the rest of my ticket myself. WORTH IT.

[171/348]

What a strange nonsensical post.

"I ate luxury foods, talked to camp managers who hire workers, but the real problem is bikes. So let's blame the bike problem on PnP."

So much this!
The whole time I was reading it I was thinking, "What a poorly written pile of disjointed crap this is."
At least you managed to figure out what he was trying to say, all I got was that he must have had some smelly salmon shits out there.

[lucky420]

What a strange nonsensical post.

"I ate luxury foods, talked to camp managers who hire workers, but the real problem is bikes. So let's blame the bike problem on PnP."

So much this!
The whole time I was reading it I was thinking, "What a poorly written pile of disjointed crap this is."
At least you managed to figure out what he was trying to say, all I got was that he must have had some smelly salmon shits out there.

Me too, it read like a poorly written essay by a high school sophomore

[FIGJAM]

I thought a "Donation" was like a gift.

Nothing expected in return!!!

[SippyCupODoom]

Since this non-sensical post exists on the Borg's journal, is this a soft sell on their part to tell participants that they condone these camps and we should all embrace them now?

The future is Plug & Play and we need to get on board? As long as we deal with that damn bike problem of course.

In years past I never camped in proximity to a P&P camp but this year they were just a couple camps over and it was shocking to experience. The exclusivity, the MOOP, the attitude and the general vibe of "Fuck off, you're not welcome"

[bm_cricket]

In years past I never camped in proximity to a P&P camp but this year they were just a couple camps over and it was shocking to experience. The exclusivity, the MOOP, the attitude and the general vibe of "Fuck off, you're not welcome"

Last year down the street from us on 5:00 there was a wall of RVs and shade mesh and it was built so you couldn't see beyond the mesh except in a few places where they would drive vehicles in. You could see the 30 yard roll away for trash which makes some sense logistically for a large camp. You could also see the 3 or 4 guys (taking turns, only one at a time) wearing all black who.. I'm not kidding, were just standing guard by the entrance to the back of their camp. What the fuck? Never confronted them, never tried doing anything weird or sneaking in but come on. Was I really looking at hired security for the "back of house"? They were there all week. I had to walk or ride past that camp every single time I went out to open playa (I was a few intersections up on 5:00).

Two years ago I was across from a P&P. Our camp shows up on Tuesday to build stuff and on Wednesday or Thursday the camp across from us show up with a small handful of their campers. They setup maybe 20 numbered (like a hotel) hexayurts with identical AC and individual noisy as fuck generators. They were camped at 5:00&E if memory serves. The camp was named MOSAIC. They had this little hexayurt city taking up 1/4 of the intersection. A major intersection in a major part of the city. The people sleeping in those yurts weren't the ones who showed up to build them (at least not most of them) because they only had a crew of maybe 10 people and they had way more than that many yurts. Also, we never did figure out what that camp did. One or two days during the week there were a few people in the morning doing yoga. At night there were sometimes single DJs playing music. They had huge communal meals for their campers. OH, and they had a nice big fucking red blob in the middle of their MOOP map: https://burningman.org/culture/history/ ... -moop-map/

Oh, found them. Their camp had two events. One on Tuesday and one on Thursday. Good thing they took up an entire city block for 3 hours (total) of yoga! https://playaevents.burningman.org/play ... rch=mosaic

.... This makes me sound bitter....

[Token]

I don’t understand why folks are surprised or buthurt about this.

Been going on since the dot-com days. Ever since Marian did her media blitz in the late 90’s it was just a matter of time for folks to notice.



Not like Emeral City was all volunteers and shit.



Or the Belgium Waffle (Uchronia) brought to you by Lexus.

Shit happens, culture jam the fucks.

[bm_cricket]

We need to accept that reality exists but we don't need to accept it is unchangeable.

Poverty and homelessness and disease exist and have always existed. I assume you wouldn't tell us to stop trying to solve this things. The slow erosion of what makes Burning Man special can be viewed the same way.

[some seeing eye]

Unlike many, I'm not against PnP. I'm fine with them hiring staff as long as they pay them more than $10K a week. I think they can be leashed, trained and controlled by the BORG like a sparkle puppy more effectively than than solo virgin bucket list festival campers. That puppy training can include more participation, more getting dirty, whatever. I'm not even against model Instagramming. I'm not as idealistic as some that PnP campers are going to get religion and change the world. No doubt individuals involved are candidates for the donation funnel.

I think there is a continuum of camps with dues to camps with megadues. I'm all for any camp with dues opening their books to their campers.

I would like to see evidence of where MOOP and lost bikes come from. Just saying they are because of PnP is weak. If you look at the MOOP map, unplaced areas are overly represented. I'm surprised there isn't more MOOP mapped in the sound vehicle area.

I'm for less ostentation, no Segways and no visible body or security guards. Obviously no more native feather headdresses from China.

The PnP both weigh heavily on the event and are a source of income for the BLM and the org. They buy tickets, and maybe some high priced ones, they use outside services which pay a fee to the BLM. Do outside services pay a fee to the org? Would their paid staff qualify as outside services? Is their interactivity audited and yearly improvement continuing?

They are a target for deserved anger at the concentration of wealth, but many wealthy camps have stayed invisible for years. Personally if I could wish the event back to the 90's with Cacaphony, SRL, the rave camp in the boonies, no sound camp published lineups, the main MOOP cigarette butts, no ticket shortage, no OSS, and a real afterburn report, I would. But I can't.

[Captain Goddammit]

You think the Borg would do anything to make better Burners out of P&P-ers?
Hell no. The powers that be are retirement age, they've done this shit 30 years, it's time to take the money and run.
The old Burning Man has burned.

[Token]

We need to accept that reality exists but we don't need to accept it is unchangeable.

It was tried back in 2005? with Borg2. Fizzled thoug it was a freaky fun year.

It is past saving from that particular malady. The whole thing has become a commodity, a destination for the traveling masses. The experiment has ended and it is now about optimizing the margin.

Equating it to homeless and the system that produces them is huge miss. BM is a luxury, mental illness and a broken justice system are a disease.

[BBadger]

If there are going to be PnP camps, I want them to be very expensive and very exclusive. Otherwise, we'll end up with everyone and their mom showing up at "motel" PnP camps that are cheap and accommodate lots of people. That must not happen.

[Token]

If there are going to be PnP camps, I want them to be very expensive and very exclusive. Otherwise, we'll end up with everyone and their mom showing up at "motel" PnP camps that are cheap and accommodate lots of people. That must not happen.

You mean Hushville?

[FlyingMonkey]

I thought a "Donation" was like a gift.

Nothing expected in return!!!

Yeah, just like donations to political candidates

[FlyingMonkey]

If there are going to be PnP camps, I want them to be very expensive and very exclusive. Otherwise, we'll end up with everyone and their mom showing up at "motel" PnP camps that are cheap and accommodate lots of people. That must not happen.

Hey there, slow down BBadger. I can accommodate the Moms. But to be honest this year was pretty Meh.

I'm unable to go next year & don't feel that sense of loss like the first time I had to sit a year out. The old Man has definitely been burned & he aint no phoenix. I wish I had been burning back then but I missed out. The Hippocratic of the Org has left me disillusioned and really I don't think many of them give 2 shits about the "principals". I think they have abandoned the ideals that they once had & are cashing in. I can't blame them, most of us would sell out just the same. Once they start walking the walk I may care more but I'm just camping in the desert for now. Nothing life changing about that which is too bad. I spend a lot of time, effort, money & energy for a camping trip & think Hawaii sounds like a nice change in venue (and cheaper).

[JohnEBGud]

I think there is a continuum of camps with dues to camps with megadues. I'm all for any camp with dues opening their books to their campers.

Exactly so. Both ends of the spectrum provide amenities for a price - it's just a matter of degree.

[maladroit]

I think there is a continuum of camps with dues to camps with megadues. I'm all for any camp with dues opening their books to their campers.

Exactly so. Both ends of the spectrum provide amenities for a price - it's just a matter of degree.

That's oversimplifying the issue to a braindead level.

Most camps that have dues, the money is going back into the camp itself. Booze for the bar, rental truck fees, generator fuel, etc. Amenities aren't being provided for a price in that case...campers are sharing the cost of large expenses. Some campers may be contributing more than dues, providing use of their personal equipment like vehicles and generators, etc. This type of camp is generally made up of people who know each other well and have chosen to camp together. They'll often be self sufficient (could attend the event without the rest of the camp).

Kick it up a notch to camps that include a meal plan and have some required work shifts; this is more of a gray area. You often see perfect strangers "applying" to these camps. Some large camps may have this structure and still be made of a unified group, most campers self reliant etc; they're just using the structure to prevent too much chaos. But you also see larger camps made of strangers who are depending on the camp's meal plan and other infrastructure. They're receiving a service in exchange for their money. It's borderline, because they are likely providing their own living arrangements, bikes, etc. But the litmus test is that if they arrived on playa and the camp wasn't there, they'd be pissed and feel scammed...which means that something was purchased.

Beyond that is the stereotypical plug n play with pre-setup tents or RVs, full meal plans, bikes provided, etc. That's the base level to qualify, and as we've all seen here before, the sky is the limit with what sorts of on-playa services can be purchased.

I disagree with it being a continuum, a spectrum along which all camps that collect dues reside. There is a dividing line, and I think that is self sufficiency. If you are paying dues to a camp and you would be stranded without enough food, water, or shelter if the camp vanished, then that has crossed the line into commodification.