Generator rental and delivery

[Snickerdog]

The places that rent and deliver generators to the playa - do they only rent big diesel generators for theme camps, or could I rent a Honda 3000 and have it delivered as a solo camper? I’m a generator snob, and that’s about the only one I’d use, but I’m old, and my body is shrink-wrapped in pain, and those things are heavy.

I’m not asking anyone to do my research for me; I’m just wondering if anyone knows off the top of their head.

[some seeing eye]

Unlikely, because it wouldn't be secure at drop off, pick up or during the burn.

The number of outside services rental companies is small.

https://burningman.org/event/camps/deli ... providers/ hasn't been updated, you can email outside services to get a current list.

It may be the RV/Trailer companies may have small generators. There is also a Facebook group Burning Man Generators and Electrical Systems.

Another angle is to find riders, and have them help you load and unload it from your ride.

[Snickerdog]

Good info. Thank you!

[Sham]

What are you planning on running on this generator?
We had a generator that gave out half way during the week, and I brought a 750 watt power inverter that clamped on to the battery of one of our rental cars. This ran all the camp LED lighting, a small refrigerator and the lights in several trailers. This inverter ran for maybe 5 hours with the car off, then the inverter shut off automatically if the car battery started to run down. We then started the car and let the battery charge up.
Here is a photo of the inverter that served us so well. It was $40.

[Snickerdog]

I’d be using it to run a huge-ass air conditioner. I’d have solar for the smaller stuff.

Honestly, going without a/c is a legit option for me. I’m just figuring out the possibilities right now.

[Captain Goddammit]

You can rent a Honda EU3000 but you have to bring it yourself.
There are Yamaha generators that are just as good and jay as quiet, plus a few other Honda’s that will do the job.

I use a pair of Honda EU2000s because that costs about the same, but makes more power and each weighs only 50 pounds, instead of 140 for the 3000.
Also, unlike the EU3000, it’s very easy to connect the 2000s to a large external fuel tank so you’re not always topping off the gas.
I think renting them is stupid, a few rentals and you could have owned one.

What is a “big ass” air conditioner? How much BTU, how many watts to start it?

[Sham]

I see you're planning on 2018 for your first year. I will say that 2017 was really the first very oppressively hot year I can remember. Most years I am out and about during the day on the open playa or visiting other camps. The nights are usually cool, so no air conditioning is required.
One of the problems with a nice comfortable RV is that you don't want to go out and explore all that Burning Man has to offer. The other thing to consider is if you're a night person, then you will be sleeping more during the day. I tend to try to get to sleep by 1:00am since I'm on east coast time.

[some seeing eye]

If you are renting anything, be sure you are confident you can remove all traces of the dust, or that the renter knows and agrees to handle the dust.

Until you have gone to the event, it is impossible to understand the dust.

Here is a start - the disassembly of a camera that went to Burning Man. A generator is going to be less sealed than a camera. https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/0 ... rning-man/

Maybe we need something in the prep guide? Virgins find owner rental RVs online inexpensively, but are they planning the level of cleanup needed? Do we need some RV cleanup video horror stories?

[Captain Goddammit]

Oops by “big ass” I meant “huge ass”.
I apologize for this glaring misuse of English.

[gaminwench]

Since it was so hot this year, everyone will be hyper-prepared for heat next year.

So, of course, it will be chilly and rainy.

[BBadger]

One of the problems with a nice comfortable RV is that you don't want to go out and explore all that Burning Man has to offer. The other thing to consider is if you're a night person, then you will be sleeping more during the day. I tend to try to get to sleep by 1:00am since I'm on east coast time.

Yeah, comfy RVs can be daytime prisons. You'll feel all cool and nice and then even the relatively mild heat (not this year's heat) will feel hot and you'll just not bother to go out during the day.

I was so anxious to leave and do stuff during the day this year, but it was just so horribly hot that I just moped around in shade most of the day.

That said, having a cool, dark space to catch a nap is quite nice... but so is finding some outdoor, loungey area in the shade to sleep too.

[Captain Goddammit]

I have the opposite point of view about that.
I think having a cool, clean place to rest makes me more ready to go out there and explore. I think I being stuck out there in the heat and dirt and dust wears you down.
Note: if you’re under 40, this advice may not apply.

[Snickerdog]

I think I being stuck out there in the heat and dirt and dust wears you down.
Note: if you’re under 40, this advice may not apply.

That’s what I’m talking about. I’m 50, with a body that’s been beaten down by a career in construction. I work in places like steam tunnels and blast furnaces, and I imagine the playa dust to be like the graphite powder in a steel mill. Weeks after the job is done, I’m still finding graphite coming out of my ears.

Because I’m used to it, I know I’d survive in the heat just fine, probably better than most, but it absolutely takes a huge toll on the body. At my age, I’d prefer to be able to get away from the heat, if I feel like I need a break.

[Snickerdog]

You can rent a Honda EU3000 but you have to bring it yourself.
There are Yamaha generators that are just as good and jay as quiet, plus a few other Honda’s that will do the job.

I use a pair of Honda EU2000s because that costs about the same, but makes more power and each weighs only 50 pounds, instead of 140 for the 3000.
Also, unlike the EU3000, it’s very easy to connect the 2000s to a large external fuel tank so you’re not always topping off the gas.
I think renting them is stupid, a few rentals and you could have owned one.

What is a “big ass” air conditioner? How much BTU, how many watts to start it?

I don’t have one yet, but I’m thinking I want 12000 BTU’s. 2000W might cover it, but I’d rather have 3000.

I agree with you on the Yamaha’s. My dad has one with a propane conversion, and it is lovely.

I agree that renting is not financially the best idea. My problem is getting one from Chicago to BRC and back. I could, but I’d rather not.

[Snickerdog]

Oops by “big ass” I meant “huge ass”.
I apologize for this glaring misuse of English.

Both are correct.

Just wait till 2019, when I go “ginormous” with an absorption chiller in the basement of my Shiftpod, and a cooling tower on the roof.

[Captain Goddammit]

Well how are you getting a huge ass A/C to BRC? If transport logistics are that critical, score more points for the two-EU2000 setup.

[Popeye]

Rule of Thumb for air conditioner power draw is 1000btu is about 1 amp running current, start current will be about 160% to 200% of this. This assumes a start capacitor in the circuit.
I have run a 12000btu ac unit on a 2kw generator but needed 2: 2kw's with power saver off to start it.
I have run and started two 6000btu ac units on a 2kw generator with power saver off, just start them separately.
Start and run current will vary depending on manufacturer and age.

[Dr. Pyro]

I just had a call from Felony Arson, Mayor of Barbie Death Village and Vulture Chow has indicated we can get a 25,000 watt diesel generator delivered to the playa for $2000 for the week. We figure that would light up the entire Village including the lights in main camp, the RVs/trailers up front, the shower, deep freezer, the camp's microwave ovens, and anything else we can throw at it. Takes about 110 gallons to keep it running for the week. That seems like a pretty decent system. Anyone have experience with this?

[Raoul]

I just had a call from Felony Arson, Mayor of Barbie Death Village and Vulture Chow has indicated we can get a 25,000 watt diesel generator delivered to the playa for $2000 for the week.

Where did that quote come from? The preliminary figures I've gotten so far have been a lot more expensive than that.

[Sham]

Geez people, 25,000 watts? Use LED bulbs and energy efficient freezers and appliances.
A $600 7,000 watt generator should light up the whole freakin' place!

[Popeye]

I just had a call from Felony Arson, Mayor of Barbie Death Village and Vulture Chow has indicated we can get a 25,000 watt diesel generator delivered to the playa for $2000 for the week. We figure that would light up the entire Village including the lights in main camp, the RVs/trailers up front, the shower, deep freezer, the camp's microwave ovens, and anything else we can throw at it. Takes about 110 gallons to keep it running for the week. That seems like a pretty decent system. Anyone have experience with this?

When you derate for altitude you will be closer to 20-22 kw.
I would guess your problem would be the infrastructure surrounding the generator. Is it 3 phase? How are you going to break out the power? Will you use construction type boxes or panel boards? Who will build them and set them up? What about load balancing?

You cannot get an answer to "is it big enough"? unless you can list all the different loads and how much they draw. If you have a reasonable guess at this I'd be happy to help.
Or you could post this on Burning Man Generators and Electrical Systems. There are some knowledgeable people over there.

[Captain Goddammit]

Hey Doc, here’s everything you could ever wanna know about setting up a full-camp power distribution from a big generator.
Brad Templeton wrote this up several years ago, very informative:
http://www.templetons.com/brad/burn/generators.html

And no, 7000 watts from one of those irritating loud cheapies won’t cut it. My camper by itself can use half of that.

[Popeye]

http://www.templetons.com/brad/burn/generators.html

That's a really nice writeup. You can't go to far wrong by following it.

I'd add that any resistive load rated at 240V can be run on 208V. Newer motors, generally 3/4hp and greater, can often be run on 120V or 240V sometimes at 208V but read the nameplate. This can be advantagous to reduce start up curent. Also it wasn't clear to me that all wires in a circuit must be run together, all hots, neutral and ground.
If a ground is not run with with feeder wires then the feeders should be treated as service instead of feeders. I don't know Nevada code and the NEC has at times required or not required this ground to be run.
Also not really clear is that anytime you change wire size you you need to add fuses or circuit breakers to match the smaller wire.

[Popeye]

Just a thought, and I know it is blasphemy to some , but probably the easiest way to reduce generator load is to ban air conditioners. Have a build night for RV owners to build swamp coolers and run them off wall warts.

[fireheadwhale]

This was my second burn. I live in California's Central Valley where it is 99 or 100 degrees almost every day in the summer. The heat at Burning Man 2017 just felt normal to me. This year, unlike last year, I had a generator and a small trailer with AC. I ran the AC two times. Both times I sat or laid on the floor for about an hour and said to myself,"Why am I alone in a trailer at Burning Man?". Then I got up, shut it off and went outside. I shouldn't have even brought the generator.

[some seeing eye]

Hey Doc, here’s everything you could ever wanna know about setting up a full-camp power distribution from a big generator.
Brad Templeton wrote this up several years ago, very informative:
http://www.templetons.com/brad/burn/generators.html.

Thanks Captain for posting that.

Camp grids are a good challenge. I'm really surprised there haven't been more fatal electrical accidents on playa. So if you are building a grid, bring an electrician or equivalent to design it and camp with you. Of course the Doc is never going to leave the back of his RV once BDV has a grid!

Stupidity is the rule on the playa so train your campers not to touch the grid or generator.

[Dr. Pyro]

Of course the Doc is never going to leave the back of his RV once BDV has a grid!

I wouldn't leave the back of my luxurious RV whether BDV has a grid or not.

[Captain Goddammit]

Just a thought, and I know it is blasphemy to some , but probably the easiest way to reduce generator load is to ban air conditioners. Have a build night for RV owners to build swamp coolers and run them off wall warts.

No one asked how to reduce power needs.

When a camp says “we want to set up this much power, to run these things” the answer isn’t “well don’t run those things”.
The answer is “here’s how to set up that much power”.

Swamp coolers make too much moisture for the inside of an RV, and don’t even begin to compare with A/C. The domain of the swamp cooler is a less sealed structure like a tent.

[Sham]

Remember the OP is attending Burning Man and planning on being solo for his first time. Is air conditioning required? What other devices is he planning on running that he needs 3000 watts of power?

[Captain Goddammit]

Well, I mean, are people required to go without their first year? I didn’t!
Burning Man is as miserable or as comfortable as you make it.